New York 134: Planet of Hats (Scum Win!)

[VinegarEater]

Geesh. Quick look at Peregrine's reads and I'm wondering if the game's changed at all since post 600.

Rereading and at post 616. Should be at the end of the game within six hours. You'll hear from me then.

[VinegarEater]

Finally finished my readthrough.

PeregrineV -
Why is Chkballin is scummier than Auckmid? Impression I got is that the wagon formed out of a sentiment of "Yeah, let's lynch some guy" without too much concern for who that guy really is. (If that's not the case, and you're on the wagon, and you're NOT Peregrine, don't correct me yet)

Meanwhile, I'll make you very mad.
VOTE: Auckmid

FourseenCircumstance-
You're a silly one, aren't you?

Everyone -
Brief self-introduction. Throw rotten fruit if you disapprove.

I'm VinegarEater. I only have a few games under my belt and I haven't played in months. Got roped in here anyway.

[VinegarEater]

Oh hell I'm an idiot.

VOTE: Chkballin
Noticed the random Auckmid jump. I don't know why I even bothered to ask. Shoot me now.

[VinegarEater]

Thor - Why do you want Auckmid dead, anyway?
(My vote was only on Auckmid for various purposes involving forgetting Chkballin and getting a rise out of Peregrine)

[VinegarEater]

To clarify - why do you want him lynched over Chkballin. I looked back and it seemed to be mostly out of frustration at his lack of content.

[VinegarEater]

Got it. You'd rather PL someone.

You weren't on Swag's wagon either, were you? Because today's Chkballin reminds me a lot of D1's Swag.

[VinegarEater]

I see.

Chkballin's slip closely resembles Swag's slip. However, Chkballin also made a bullshit defense (#331) that amounted to "you'd lynch any player over an inactive player, I play the way I feel like playing, I didn't vote because nobody had convinced me of anything

(saying this in spite of already having interrogated several people)

, I've had a rough few days." He followed it up with a bullshit Lynch All Liars vote after your jokeclaim.

Right now he looks like another Swag, but this time, with a history of scummy behavior. What reason do you have not to vote him?

[VinegarEater]

Yeah, I figured that out now, but thanks. What do you think of Parabollocks?

[VinegarEater]

Most of his play seems to be random votes with two/three-word cases. Naturally, it's difficult to tell shitty town play from scummy play most of the time, but either way he's a pain in the ass. Brought it up because he's one of the best candidates for those of us looking to lynch someone incompetent.

Spoiler: Off Topic

Yeah, IT is a nasty business, and IT workers can get very bitter. Always show them respect.

[VinegarEater]

Celebloki -

Shall we come to a consensus on who to advise Palisade to vig and NS to investigate?

Fourseen is noticeably absent from your list. I can't read DGB at all, but I'm not sure if that justifies investigation. Certainly doesn't justify vigging.

Reviewing your case on Taro.

Thor -
Gut makes VinegarEater sad. =(

[VinegarEater]

Mostly a "c'mon, hammer!", which has a clear goal and does, in fact, go somewhere.

[VinegarEater]

That's an unusual claim. Doesn't it imply the existence of an actual roleblocker?

[VinegarEater]

Ballin -

I do believe that the wagon is positively motivated, but I don't like the fact that Reck pointed out that we jumped on the wagon and then seemingly forgot to vote until his next post a few minutes after someone else agreed with what he said.

Do you think Reck cares if other people agree with him?

Thor -

I already claimed there was a roleblocker in my claim - as the roleblocker hasn't touched the "vig" or the "cop" the roleblocker is probably town.

Reviewed. Indeed you have, after your SK gambit.

Everyone -
Reckoner's point makes sense. Way too much power in the hands of town if every claim is true.

Palisade could easily be a scumbag disguised as a vig. I had a few mild gut-based scum-reads since the beginning of the game, but none strong enough to post. An on-the-spot ISO finds he's proposed several lynches for no apparent reason, blatantly looking for approval (#367, #369, #409, and most absurdly #634 / #637) He also (#964), said he outright refused to take town recommendations, which, for a vig, is a Bad Thing. Worth mentioning he never got godhammered for the Kryptinen hop, as Reckoner promised here.

("he" used in reference to a hydra solely for ease of writing)

Ballin's claim was equivalent to a VT claim. It cannot be proven (without losing a major PR), but it makes him important enough not to kill. The claim, therefore, means nothing, so I'm not jumping onto someone else until this wagon is assuredly dead.

Palisade -
Now would be an excellent time to revisit your troubled past and explain why I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

FourseenCircumstance -
Should I lose all respect for you now, or after you explain that that was a serious claim?

Note -
I have a very wide monitor - these posts don't look like wallposts to me, but do they look like wallposts to anyone else?

Let me know so I can write accordingly.

[VinegarEater]

Ballin -
What do you think his motivations are now?

[VinegarEater]

Spoke too quickly earlier - might not be a bad idea to push Ballin to another day if another reasonable lynch (Palisade) garners support. Only if we remember to interrogate Ballin properly later. Still, I get a weird, queasy feeling when I realize we may lose an ordinary vig, even if he claims not to take our words into account.

Also, you forgot Fourseen's possible doctor claim (#1346, which I don't believe) and Jilynne's PGO claim, which I can confirm because I replaced Jilynne. Of course PGO is, properly claimed, either a slight town liability in that nobody can investigate me, or a slight scum liability in that nightkilling me is a huge sacrifice. Not particularly powerful for a PR.

What do you mean "syncing up"? Do you mean "a reasonable mod would not place these roles together in the same game"?
Do you think Ballin is lying? I already outlined the problems with his claim.

[VinegarEater]

Backup didn't seem "normal" to me either, even though it's technically legal in the normal guidelines (under "Modifiers which are Explicitly Normal").

NS's cop claim is irritating. It could be legit, because it's so implausible and such a ridiculous, potentially self-incriminating role to choose, but the claim could have been made solely so everyone would think that. I hate WIFOM black holes. It may be best to just let the claim slide and ignore the investigation results until we have time to dedicate to NS, which is roughly what I've been doing. I may be biased because I've played with NS and like them.

[VinegarEater]

Celeb -
What do you think of Palisade after having read the above discussion?

[VinegarEater]

Yes. If palisade is scum, NS is too. This possibility is very tempting. Enough that I'll VOTE: Palisade.

NS did some standard "...unless I'm insane" speculation, (#1067) which fakeclaimer-cops usually do to get another chance when their guilty result comes up town. Traditional move. This speculation is bullshit

now

because SleepyKrew came up guilty after a convenient guilty investigation, and was bullshit

then

because the Normal Guidelines decree that all cops are sane.

Bear in mind that NS also claimed an innocent investigation on you. If NS turns out scum, you'll be a possible scumbag as well.

Primarily because Thor has his bearings better than Palisade, I find his one-shot vig claim more plausible.

[VinegarEater]

Reckoner -

Wait, yeah, how did Thor know he was roleblocked!?

It was either that or doc, no?

"But current mod meta BLAH BLAH BLAH" Don't waste my time.

Your argument relies on mod meta too. More plausible mod meta (no mod would put such a plethora of power rolls into a normal setup) but mod meta none the less.

Also, Parabollocks seems like scum to me, mostly due to gut and irritation. ISO him - he's either VI or scum.

I'd be down to lynch Palisade before Thor due to obvprotowniness from Thor, but a Palisade townflip or scumflip would make me question my read on Thor. I'm also, as usual, still down for a NS lynch. chkballin is not the lynch for today, though, because neither are NS or Palisade. They're all being left alone, which leaves us with the following people to lynch:

Why are we leaving these people alone? Lynching Palisade could be instrumental in deciding to lynch NS and/or celebloki.

Bvoigt -
Hello. Long time no see. No, I don't think we have a compulsive SK either.

NobodySpecial -

Well, rather than Auckmid, can we lynch someone like Fourseen Circumstance (PBuG was quite scummy), or Taro, who's lurking too much?

Not really sure who I'll investigate tonight. Yet.

This post screams "my thought process has nothing to do with my investigative ability." It saddens me.

Why did you investigate Celebloki/SleepyKrew/Palisade if PBuG was scummy for you? You had plenty of time.
Why do you want him lynched now when you can investigate him tonight?

Taro -
You said you thought PBuG was scum. (#1216) Surely NobodySpecial and yourself can show us the way.

FourseenCircumstance -
None of us have patience for more VI antics in this game. Answer these questions or else very bad things:
Was the doc claim serious?
Explain why you're voting Parabollocks.

[VinegarEater]

Thor -

So, NS claims cop.
NS investigates claimed Vig and calls it town.
Solution is to lynch claimed Vig to check veracity of cop claim...
After cop produced correct result on scum...
After cop produced a 'who I'll investigate list' containing two scum...
What?

If you ignore that I had also made a legitimate case against Palisade, and that we have a massive number of PR claims that shouldn't all be true. Yes, I think Palisade is a likely SK. It would only be a better idea to go for NS directly if I was convinced NS was lying. So far, I'm not, but that may change depending on how NS answers my questions.

You've simplified this exchange from a reasonably-well founded attack on Palisade to a test for NS and a PR sacrifice.

Let's hear your backup about the roleblock.

Celebloki -
After the fact, that statement really doesn't make much sense. Not sure what I was thinking. I'll leave you alone for now.

[VinegarEater]

What part of your post do you think I didn't read?

[VinegarEater]

Y'know, thinking about it - does anyone think I looked like a pro-town roleblock night 1?
Because if that doesn't look like a pro town roleblock I know a abackup I have some questions for - and I personally think coming out of Day 1 I looked like one of the strongest town players there.
If it was town, had to be a JK, yeah?

I may have misunderstood you. I thought you meant that you had an alternate interpretation of the roleblock, for backup purposes. Did you mean something else?

[VinegarEater]

Backup is expressly legal in the Normal guidelines.

[VinegarEater]

Two cents on balance - a scum RB with town backup would turn out immensely swingy. Soon we'll know in a moment if Ballin was the backup, but not which faction our actual RB is.

Fourseen -
We're not voting Thor because you're incapable of articulating a case against him (and because you hammered two posts later, so you obviously didn't care about Thor at all in the first place, you lunatic). You haven't even answered my questions. Do you have a problem? Is it between your ears?

NS -
I asked you a question earlier that you still haven't answered (based on #1359)

Why do you want him (Fourseen) lynched now when you can investigate him tonight?

[VinegarEater]

I quoted it specifically so you wouldn't miss it. I'll rephrase it so it makes sense now.

If you think Fourseen is scum, why aren't you investigating him?

I'd investigate Parabollocks because he irritates me, lurks, and I can't read him. Possibly Taro, for the same reasons.

[VinegarEater]

But you said you would be alright with a Fourseen LYNCH in the same post.

Well, rather than Auckmid, can we lynch someone like Fourseen Circumstance (PBuG was quite scummy), or Taro, who's lurking too much?

In what world is that acceptable when an investigation isn't?

[VinegarEater]

So you're not at a loss for who to investigate now, and you're just second-guessing yourself?

[VinegarEater]

I'm badgering you about this because the impression your first post gave me was that you, for some strange reason (fakeclaim was my best guess), weren't taking into account that you had an investigative role.

Don't like and don't trust the answer you gave me, but as I doubt I'm getting a better one soon, I won't pester you again until morning.

[VinegarEater]

@mod - If the mafia have a roleblocker, can they block and kill the same night?

Considering the last night's kills, I figure we have either a scum roleblocker and no SK or Palisade isn't a second vig at all.
VOTE: PalisadeVOTE:

NS -
Results?

[VinegarEater]

EBWOP: VOTE: Palisade because I fail at BBCode.

[VinegarEater]

Palisade -
Do you think we have an SK? (yes, this is important)

[VinegarEater]

NS -
Expand on this statement and whether you think it's still true:

After a quick scan of Reck's iso (which is largely just personal attacks on almost everyone in the game), I'm satisfied.

[vote removed so I don't end up voting Reck]

He's playing differently here; he's talking pretty much like another poster in whom he has expressed dislike over their style of posting. Something's up.

(#978)

[VinegarEater]

Not going to delve into issues between you two outside of mafia.

I don't trust your claim, but Reckoner's reaction (being avidly willing to lynch you despite having been cleared) struck me as very town. His scum reaction would be to jump back onto Palisade in the event anyone actually believes NS is a cop, because being cleared is fun.

How did you expect him to react?

Reckoner -
Why do you think NS chose to investigate you? (or "investigate" you, whatever the case may be)

[VinegarEater]

You're a cop, and you're willing to be lynched at LyLo?

[VinegarEater]

Reckoner -
The godfather nonsense reminds me a lot of the "unless I'm insane" nonsense earlier.

I wouldn't mind a massclaim, seeing that part of my case on Palisade could be greatly helped or harmed by a certain set of power roles.

[VinegarEater]

I never said I expected an accurate mass-claim.

[VinegarEater]

Ballin -

Reck's cocky attitude, suggests he's never been afraid of investigation and that rubs me the wrong way

Wait a sec, it's scummy not to be afraid of being investigated? What, is being confirmed innocent some big scary threat to town-aligned players?

VingerEater seems like an acceptable lynch because a PGO claim is perfect for scum, it's almost as bad as fake claiming miller IMO. It keeps people too scared to use their night actions to determine your alignment. The only way to get around this is with a lynch- so I'd be for it.

That might be acceptable if I wasn't one of the most pro-town players in the game right now. Do you have a case other than "well, there's no way to be sure..."?

What makes PeregrineV seem scummy to you? If you think NS is lying, then why isn't he a suspect?

[VinegarEater]

Reck's attitude has just been overly confident the whole game. It's not a threat for him to be confirmed town, but to then turn around and vote NS is weird to me- not to mention scum are over confident as well especially when they know something we don't. Like I said, it is hard for me to read Reck but those are my observations take them as you will.

I've never played with Reck before, so I can't excuse this, but on this site it's common town meta to be pigheaded and insistent the way Reck tends to.

Is there some reason you feel safer lynching Palisade (claimed vig) than NS (claimed cop)?

[VinegarEater]

Peregrine -
Why do you think we should believe NS?

[VinegarEater]

That's a good point - earlier, I thought NS was going to try to use the cop role to do something tricksy, like hiding a scumbag, but now I figure we only have one scum left, so the claim makes even less sense.

Most of my counterarguments end in WIFOM, so I'll ignore my gut and slot NS in as a guaranteed pre-lylo lynch. Even if he actually is a cop, I can still see Palisade as an SK, for the reasons Reck has given. It would be very difficult to win a 22-player game as an ordinary SK.

[VinegarEater]

I'm curious about Palisade's case on me, but not for strategic reasons. I just think it's going to be really funny.

[VinegarEater]

Goofball - Don't want to lynch Palisade first?

I've only been able to deduce that Fourseen is an idiot. Not necessarily that he's scum.

NOTREALLYANEDITATALL - Swag's jump early-game was really bad though. I'll grant you that.

[VinegarEater]

LOL, well spotted. Can't decide if I want to switch now or lynch him tomorrow.

[VinegarEater]

Assuming we have four scum:
If the game continues after Fourseen's death and he flips scum, it means we still have an SK left. Because there were only two NKs per night at the beginning (one exception when Thor vigged JDGA), we can't have both an SK and a vig. Nobody counterclaimed Palisade's kills, so that basically confirms him as an investigation-immune SK claiming vig or idiot-town-who-claims-kills-that-were-actually-made-by-the-SK.

The scumslips you caught are pretty good, so VOTE: FourseenCircumstance. If the game continues tomorrow, we'll squash Palisade.

[VinegarEater]

Reckoner -
Fourseen is not just a useless slot - Fourseen's predecessors made several major slips, one of which was unnoticed until today. Auckmid was just a frustrated policy lynch, but Fourseen's slot is actually anti-town.

I will wagon Palisade either today or tomorrow - today if you can convince me wagoning Fourseen is a bad idea. NS will be lynched, whether you're involved or not, immediately before LyLo, which is in (with two scum, at one kill per night, assuming Palisade continues to be roleblocked) a minimum of three days - sooner if you can counter arguments like this: #1499.

[VinegarEater]

Because five scum and an investigation-immune SK seem like an awful lot for a 22player game, in my uninformed opinion.

Do you usually see more?

[VinegarEater]

Bvoigt -
Not going to argue balance with you; you have more experience than I.

We're proceeding with the plan and we're probably going to get at least one, if not two or three scum out of the deal.

[VinegarEater]

Describe what you think Goofball's slips mean. Maybe you're misunderstanding them.

[VinegarEater]

Ah. The problem with your case is that you have to think I'm scum for it to make sense. Otherwise, your many points about Jily not receiving attention could apply to any lurker at all, the distancing you see looks like a hamhanded abuse of associative tells, and your context-free vote analysis looks like - well, it looks like context-free vote analysis! Most of your arguments apply because Jily was a VI, not because Jily was scum.

8 is really funny, because it implies that the scum know I'm the PGO, know you're the vig, knew you were targeting me, and knew they had no good reason to roleblock you, and, since they roleblocked you anyways, I'm scum which means I roleblocked you, and I'm not the PGO, therefore I'm doing exactly what I should be doing, the cunning manipulator I am. Holy shit that's a lot of assumptions.

You know what does make sense? You're an SK, you're bitter about getting roleblocked every night, you believe my PGO claim, and you want to get me lynched because you can't nightkill me. That's the only explanation I can think of for that final "reason" slipping in there unrequited.

Finally - what the fuck makes you think PGO is a strong town role? Scum know I'm town and that I'm not lying, but town don't, so I'm just a sink for stupid PRs. The mere existence of this role is a major detriment to town.

Looking forward to segment 7. And yes, ====[].

[VinegarEater]

Celebloki's first theory fits. I had no explanation for the no-kill night, but it fits neatly.

The second is possible, although it's unlikely that, after three dead scum, we haven't hit one yet.

Chkballin -
You're not getting lynched at this point.

Is "mafia godfather" shorthand for "any investigation-immune anti-town role"? If so, jump on Palisade's lynch tomorrow.

[VinegarEater]

NS -
Investigate who you feel like. Personally, I'm mildly curious about chkballin.

[VinegarEater]

@mod - If a hypothetical roleblocker blocks one member of a hypothetical scumteam that has two or more members, can the hypothetical scumteam still make a kill?

Everyone -
First of all, Palisade is still an SK, so VOTE: Palisade. Others should do the same.

Here are my conspiracy theories, formulated overnight:

Suppose we have a jailkeeper, who either really liked Palisade and wanted him to be protected, or wanted him not to make any kills and repeatedly roleblocked him. He saw that we were planning to lynch Palisade today and that we wouldn't mind if he got NK'ed, so he left him alone. He locked up NS instead, a claimed cop who several people believe. Scum decided it might be fun to shoot NS because he's going to be lynched anyway in a few days, and it's better for them if he flips sooner with fewer investigations under his belt. It didn't work.

The other possibility, for heathens who don't believe in the jailkeeper, is that an RB (probably scum*) switched from blocking Palisade to blocking NS. Also, the scum were sleeping, and the roleblocker was too polite to wake them up, so they didn't kill anyone.

I like the first one, personally. I'd also like to hear Chkballin's reaction to my theories.

*Would a town RB switch from an SK/vigilante with poor judgement, to an nonroleblockable scumbag (if my mod question turns out to be true) or the cop?

Amrun -

Yeah, I'm pretty obviously not scum, Palisade. I spent 10 minutes ISOing one of the flipped mafia before I replaced into this slot because I didn't want a scum slot and that is how long it took me to figure out Parabollocks was town.

Since when was "if you'll just think for a moment, you'll take my side on the issue" ever a good tactic against people who have both thought for a moment, and taken an entirely different side on the issue?

I want to know how you decided Parabollocks was obvtown solely by spending ten minutes ISOing

someone other than Parabollocks

.

Is your reasoning that I would have forgotten to submit a scum kill when I replaced in? Fat chance.

It's equally plausible to me that you would have omitted your kill specifically to say that. That's WIFOM, mind you, but you started it by asking a "would I really do that?" question. Abandon this chain of reasoning altogether - it will take you nowhere.

I don't like your ISOful scumhunting style but I'm going to wait until you've finished before I elaborate, in case I change my mind. It isn't something I've seen before.

[VinegarEater]

Anrun -
Unless Palisade is claiming someone else's kills, he's either the vig or the SK. So, if I'm scum, I'm groupscum.

Your ISO isn't that bad as far as reasoning goes. Withholding unfavorable remarks about your scumhunting style for now.

[VinegarEater]

I won't support that until after Palisade is dead, which should be today. If the jailkeeper/RB claims, he'll get shot the next night, and I don't want to have to deal with two kills per night.

Also, if anyone claims jailkeeper/RB at this point, I plan on lynching them tomorrow for being a scum RB.

[VinegarEater]

Reckoner -
Do my rationales explain the roleblocker/jailkeeper action if you temporarily assume NS is telling the truth?

[VinegarEater]

Ignore #1594 for being stupid. My rationale doesn't really require NS to have any particular role - for some reason, I was thinking NS had to be cop for us to have a scum roleblocker.

[VinegarEater]

You're still several votes to lynch. You should have time.

[VinegarEater]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing it. I don't expect much brilliant insight, but we'll never know what it was unless we see it first.

[VinegarEater]

That's actually a good point.
VOTE: Nobody Special

[VinegarEater]

I just recounted. Bvoigt is right.
VOTE: Palisade

[VinegarEater]

Peregrine, what do you actually want to discuss?

[VinegarEater]

NS -
Palisade's lynch has been in planning for days. Who's in a hurry?

Peregrine -
Unless Palisade is claiming the kills of others, he's a guaranteed vig or SK. I feel like he's an SK, which is why I'm voting him. The only way you can stall this lynch is to start explaining why Palisade is a vig instead.

That said, I'll answer your questions:

How many scum are left?

At least one SK, one or two mafia.

Do they have a GF?

Can't say.

Do we have a SK?

Palisade.

Do they show town when investigated?

The SK does.

How close are we to lylo or town win?

If Palisade dies, two days with one mafia, one day with two mafia.

[VinegarEater]

Bvoigt -
I have a mildly scummy gut read on Peregrine. Can you make a list?

[VinegarEater]

Amrun -
I've never played with Peregrine before, but his play so far looks a lot like bvoigt's play as scum (based on a very old game, granted), so I'm looking forward to some insightful information from Bvoigt.

I'm considering metaing him, if I have the time.

Chkballin -
I'm no longer as sure about the first theory, because it doesn't make sense to have a jailkeeper in addition to all of our other PRs. The second one is also implausible, but less so. I'm leaning towards the second one, with scum not having made a kill for WIFOM purposes, but I'm not really sure.

Your first theory is really elaborate, but plausible. It kind of seems like you are telling us what happened as opposed to making theories- so I have to reread. I personally find that the 1st theory relies a little too much on NS's cop claim being real or Palisade's claim being real.

If you're suggesting that I made a jailkeeper softclaim, I'll reiterate: I'm a PGO.

[VinegarEater]

EBWOP -

I have a mildly scummy gut read on Peregrine. Can you make a list?

Don't know why I said "list". I meant "case".

[VinegarEater]

What similarities have you noticed?

Both of you sit around a lot, trying to look vaguely town but not doing very much. You already pointed this out nicely. You also tend to get confrontational at seemingly random times (#1619). Both of you tend to look like overly careful scum, if any kind. You also both have a tendency towards buddying.

After an ISO, he does seem pretty scummy. He isn't the lynch for today, though.

[VinegarEater]

EBWOP - You being the plural you each time.

[VinegarEater]

I did a quick reread of Peregrine. This is the first time in the game he's sounded so cautious. Occasionally, he's promoted logic without doing it, (#1493), but never sounded quite like #1619. The only place I've seen this kind of reaction before is with Boberz while I pretend-policy lynched him in one of my other games (basically a mix of horrified surprise, begging like hell, and sometimes buddying). Ignore the middle line and it's easier to see.

He's been cool and detached in almost every other post, but that post has more emotional investment than any other post he's made the entire game. He's apparently wigging out because of Palisade's wagon, so he might just be town, anxious about a possible mislynch and upcoming LyLo, but that's a newbtown reaction and Peregrine isn't a newb.

Can anyone else formulate a possible explanation for this sudden change of style?

[VinegarEater]

I don't disapprove of the popcorn claim, but shouldn't you be picking people to go next, as well?

[VinegarEater]

Still a PGO.

[VinegarEater]

Amrun -
It doesn't (not directly, at least), but the guidelines say this:

New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication.

[VinegarEater]

I'm going to be immediately very suspicious of anyone who claims town RB and claims to have blocked NS. Reckoner seems to be the only one here who has a strong scumread on him, and he's already claimed VT.

[VinegarEater]

The rules don't explicitly forbid a town backup to a scum roleblocker, although that seems like the sort of thing that would be massively swingy.

[VinegarEater]

Oh well. I'm sick of pondering it. I don't think Vinegar is groupscum. I'll reconsider him for sk if Palisade isn't.

This is impossible unless I'm making kills and Palisade is claiming them for some reason.

Palisade-

-If NS flips scum, Vinegar and chkballin are both confirmed town.
-If NS flips town, one of Vinegar and chkballin is scum, but the other is town.

Can you clarify how you came to this conclusion? And this one:

This'd have been confirmed if NS added another result to his claim in the NS-is-scum scenario. However, since NS claims to be blocked, this could imply that NS's results were all real and NS fears clearing too many people. This is what we believe if NS is scum, that
{chkballin, Vinegar, Celebloki, Reck} is ALL town. Which'd narrow down the lynch pool to a guaranteed win, pretty much, limiting the names for scum to be

{DGB, bv, Peregrine, Amrun}. Between our vig and a lynch, we'd have them all dead soon enough.

That said, much of your analysis is insightful, but relies on logical scum play, and you being a vig (or else your godfather balance ideas are moot).

[VinegarEater]

Gloat as you will, Reckoner. Why is NS cleared?

[VinegarEater]

Looks like Celebloki and Reck are the only two NS has cleared, unless last night had results.

I'll lynch within bvoigt/Amrun/chkballin. Everyone else is either cleared, or a firm townread.

[VinegarEater]

School started, so I've got a seven-hour chunk of my life missing every weekday. Didn't expect you to push your way through D7 before I got home.

I'm eliminating DGB as a candidate for not being active enough to submit a nightkill so quickly. She's tricksy, but too honorable to sit out of the game but submit kills anyway.

Amrun's play doesn't make sense from a scum point-of-view. He defends me every time someone makes accusations towards me, which is a bad idea seeing that we're running low on lynch candidates. If Bvoigt flips town, it's going to be between him and me, and it's more dangerous as scum to defend someone, knowing you'll have to build a case against them later, than to be mildly suspicious or null in preparation. This is invalid, of course, if he's planning to use DGB as a final wagon.

#1640

What similarities have you noticed?

That's in reference to me mentioning bvoigt's scum play. I probably should have paid it more heed as a meta-tell, considering he did this in another game (which is currently over).
Newbie 1017 - #270

This is somewhat off-topic, but...why? (asking about why another thinks he would play scum well)

Point is that Bvoigt tends to be curious about his scum meta. Having never played with him as town, I can't confirm he doesn't do this as town, but at best, it's off-topic curiosity and at worst, it's an attempt to adjust his play to avoid getting caught.

After a mix of PoE and rereading, VOTE: Bvoigt.

Reckoner -
That's more of a bored-rereader-who-should-have-paid-more-attention-to-the-last-few-daystell than whatever you actually think it is. I'd call it a newbtell, but it's more of a dumbasstell.

Not that I expect that to change your mind.

To set the record straight for everyone, I'll clarify that we only have one mislynch before MyLo.
D8 - 1v5. Then there's a mislynch.
N8 - 1v4. Then there's a mafia kill
D9 - 1v3. (MyLo)

[VinegarEater]

Actually, you said one mislynch, then recounted and said we had two.

[VinegarEater]

It's either Amrun or me tomorrow, if it wasn't Bvoigt.

Godfather is a definite no.

[VinegarEater]

Reck/Celeb are cleared, and the only thing that's probably going to happen if we no-lynch is we get LyLo with one confirmed townie fewer. I guarantee that I'll be here tomorrow (being a PGO whose claim the scum probably believe) as well as Amrun (being the scum). Even if we have a GF, they'll kill whichever confirmed townie they aren't, so we think we have the first situation.

I'll vote Amrun when we have a clear verdict on whether today is a no lynch.

Amrun -
From your position, I'm scum or we have a godfather. Pick your poison.

[VinegarEater]

VOTE: Amrun

[VinegarEater]

Reck -
Look back to the circumstances surrounding her claim.
#515

You guys...this is really bothering me, can I claim? Please...I think it'll help you guys alot.
--
Seriously, can I please claim. This is killing me, because I'm greatly hurting town if I don't and i can help if I do.
--
WHY NOT?

(separate times separated by --)
This is what it looks like when a newbie with a weird role (I hesitate to say "PR" for a PGO in a game with so many cops) wants to claim, but gets anxious about claiming too early. If this was a fakeclaim, Jilynne must have been noncommittal about it to an insane degree, seeing that she tried so hard to avoid saying it.

Okay, so we actually have TWO more mislynches. At this point in time, I'm willing to go with Nobody Special being confirmed town. Looking back, it seems that posts and 1315 were what lead me to my VE-chkballin read. And it still seems pretty accurate. I'm going to put VE as my #1 preferred lynch for tomorrow (/today).

(referring to #1311 and #1315)
So, instead of voting on one scumbag, I jumped on...another scumbag. How is this scummy, as opposed to just being stupid? Have you forgotten Auckmid was scum?

Everyone -

I don't really think PeregrineV is scum due to my analysis, but it's only a vey minor townpoint for him.

(#1637)
No offense to heavily analytical players, but when you're relying entirely on analysis you've never posted in-thread, you're doing something horribly, horribly wrong.

The reason I haven't been voting him is because I've been trying to mentally excuse his every usage of unexplained analysis because I don't want to waste a lynch on anyone for a shitty playstyle alone. The reads it's brought him have been sane enough, but he's never actually explained how his analysis got him to those reads, aside from blatantly unsupported bullshit like the above. Which is pretty scummy, I guess.

At best, he provides the immediate reason (because of [interactions/WIFOM/OMGUS] between X and Y) without providing the posts leading to that conclusion.

[VinegarEater]

Wasn't really a great game for me, but I had fun. I'll probably stick to minis in the future. With some exceptions (DK mainly) I'd play with all of you again.

Reck -
Well-played. Repeatedly, I returned to questioning whether you could have been a godfather, but you kept eliminating people as possible targets, which just didn't match my standard profile of scum.

Yeah, I did sheep you for most of the game. I'll have to stop assuming you know what you're talking about and put more faith in my own reads (I admittedly followed the rest when we went off and lynched Auckmid instead of Chkballin, assuming there had to have been a damned good reason.)

Palisade -
I know SKs scumhunt - I just didn't think you were a very good scumhunter.

Mod -
Thanks for an enjoyable game. Good setup, although crappy play on my part ruined it to some degree.

[VinegarEater]

Amrun -
Sorry, I was so rude about your playstyle. I still don't like it, but in retrospect it worked pretty well.

[VinegarEater]

That's a good point. My reads tend to harden as the game goes on; as a replacement that doesn't really happen so much.