~~Mini 1216: S.M.H. (A.S.N.P.T.) Mafia GAME OVER!!! WOOO~~

[don_johnson]

ben: unacceptable in that you'd been basically lurking(or at least appearing to). expecting others to contribute when you are not is "unnacceptable" imo, though perhaps i used to harsh a wording. not sure if the "cough"ing is directed at me, but i don't believe i've been sheeping shitty votes. i think gaylord is more likely town in this scenario, so regardless of his lack of reasoning, i put some stock in his vote, and considering your lack of showing so far, i have no issue adding pressure to your wagon. it certainly elicited a response, no? still need to reread.

mod: v/la aug 19-22

captain 107 is bad. i hate hydras. cap was a town read. oh well. i'll try to post something coherent before we leave.

[lewarcher82]

gaylord: I need meta. If you don't want me to know your heads, please say it explicitely.

ben: you hardly ever posted, and then you post 1000 walls after DJ's vote. What are you? Dumb scum or dumb town? Such a reaction can hardly go unnoticed.

(

MEMO

- if I ever die, go back and check this out: if DJ is scum, ben is not; if ben is scum, DJ is not. Watch as warrant.)

dj: why is captain a townread? I simply don't see it, and I don't see why gaylord is likely town, as you say. Can you explain it to me?

[Benmage]

i think gaylord is more likely town in this scenario

What scenario?

[Benmage]

ben: you hardly ever posted, and then you post 1000 walls after DJ's vote. What are you? Dumb scum or dumb town? Such a reaction can hardly go unnoticed.

Have you seen me play or read any of my games?

You really gonna call me dumb... wow...

What reaction? Time to post?

D1 was rushed.
I was busy with RL

With time I'm a maching. ESPECIALLY if you piss me off with shitty nonsensical dung that was flung at my by both gay and DJ.

What am I worried about getting noticed?

This games been dragging. I'm gonna kick it in the ass.

[Benmage]

ben: unacceptable in that you'd been basically lurking(or at least appearing to).

Do you think I was strategically lurking?

This isn't your first rodeo... Has RL ever gotten in the way of your mafia gaming?

Better yet.. have you ever seen RL effect players on this site?

expecting others to contribute when you are not is "unnacceptable" imo, though perhaps i used to harsh a wording.

I asked an unexplained vote to be explained... Thats pretty damn basic....SHIT you even agreed with wanting it explained. Moreover I gave a timeframe on when I had time to post. That night. If I continued to fall off the radar... or be minimal in my content... maybe you could warrant something.

not sure if the "cough"ing is directed at me,

but i don't believe i've been sheeping shitty votes.

i think gaylord is more likely town in this scenario,

so regardless of his lack of reasoning

,

i put some stock in his vote

, and considering your lack of showing so far, i have no issue adding pressure to your wagon. it certainly elicited a response, no? still need to reread.

You sheeped him without even knowing why he voted me.

[don_johnson]

dj: why is captain a townread? I simply don't see it, and I don't see why gaylord is likely town, as you say. Can you explain it to me?

i thought his day 1 play was protown. if you want me to quote some of it i can. its not a hugely strong feeling, but i find i am able to hunt better when i solidify reads. i was willing to solidify him for the time being, but now i have to reconsider. gaylord is likely town because that hammer was ballsy as fuck. he's either really brazen scum, or likely town power. i've never seen vanilla town pull that shit, and scum rarely will as well(although i have done it as scum, albeit in smaller games where a quicklynch is huge for scum. in a game this size, i would say the hammer makes him more likely town than less. not much, but certainly a bit.) do you think he's scum?

ben: unacceptable in that you'd been basically lurking(or at least appearing to).

Do you think I was strategically lurking?

no, but voting you certainly helps me find out. i'm not sure why a second vote would cause you so much distress.

This isn't your first rodeo... Has RL ever gotten in the way of your mafia gaming?

Better yet.. have you ever seen RL effect players on this site?

absolutely, but if i just let everyone make excuses for not posting, what kind of townie would i be?

I asked an unexplained vote to be explained... Thats pretty damn basic....SHIT you even agreed with wanting it explained. Moreover I gave a timeframe on when I had time to post. That night. If I continued to fall off the radar... or be minimal in my content... maybe you could warrant something.

certainly. its not like you are being lynched here. i think you are overreacting to a vote. hence why i am leaving it there. not one question in this post is directed at gaylord, who is the one who voted you first. just seems odd. i don't think its a big deal, but you seem to be making it one.

You sheeped him without even knowing why he voted me.

no. i voted you because instead of posting content, you questioned the first guy to vote you. i guess i expected more of a catch up type post and then a rebuttal to gaylord. dude. i seriously don't know how many times i can type "gaylord" without laughing.

do you think my vote is better served elsewhere? if so, who should it be on and why?

[lewarcher82]

ben: you hardly ever posted, and then you post 1000 walls after DJ's vote. What are you? Dumb scum or dumb town? Such a reaction can hardly go unnoticed.

Have you seen me play or read any of my games?

You really gonna call me dumb... wow...

What reaction? Time to post?

D1 was rushed.
I was busy with RL

With time I'm a maching. ESPECIALLY if you piss me off with shitty nonsensical dung that was flung at my by both gay and DJ.

What am I worried about getting noticed?

This games been dragging. I'm gonna kick it in the ass.

easy, ben, dumb is not referred to you but to your play D1. Yes, I was referring to the time of your 5 consecutive posts. No, I did not read your meta but I will. You are definitely overreacting to the posts that are directed to you. If you only had voted for killer D1, I'd definitely say you are scum. But you being out of the wagon still bothers me.

i thought his day 1 play was protown. if you want me to quote some of it i can. its not a hugely strong feeling, but i find i am able to hunt better when i solidify reads. i was willing to solidify him for the time being, but now i have to reconsider. gaylord is likely town because that hammer was ballsy as fuck. he's either really brazen scum, or likely town power. i've never seen vanilla town pull that shit, and scum rarely will as well(although i have done it as scum, albeit in smaller games where a quicklynch is huge for scum. in a game this size, i would say the hammer makes him more likely town than less. not much, but certainly a bit.) do you think he's scum?

I am not sure. I agree with you that quicklynch is usually reckless town, but in this case it was an easy one: killer selfvoted, and scum could think "no one will blame me for hammering a selfvoter"... This is basically the reason why I'd like Gaylord to share his meta. The two heads are probably discussing this in their QTs... I hope that, if they are town, they will decide to reveal themselves.

Other players on the killer wagon: Lurconis & Hell need extreme attention, but they did not yet wake up into day 2. Their position on the wagon is suspicious, and being adjacent, if one is scum the other is town (

MEMO

2). DJ's position would be even worse, but for now I stick with my townread of him.

[Benmage]

Love the continual usage of buzzwords like overreacting ....makes nothing sound like something.

What's overreacting?

Responding to questions.... questioning others... and commenting on things.

Geeegolly that does sound bad!

[lewarcher82]

can you please direct me to the game where you won your scummy, ben?

[Ant_to_the_max]

Hey look! My internet is back. (Big storm last night)

Will be slapping a few people with my O Chem book shortly

[Benmage]

Pick your power 1 by spyrex. Its nothing impressive, I don't like scummiest.

[lewarcher82]

@ben, I have read a lot of your meta as town and as scum, and even two scum QT's of your past games. You are a very competent player, and your meta is very coherent through different alignments.
do me a favour and explain me what happened to killer D1. Look at the wagon and tell me where are the scum votes on it. How many? Which ones more likely according to position?

@DJ: same question.

I have already explained what are the red-spots on the wagon according to my analysis.

@Hell: please give me your read of Lurco.

mod: please prod everyone as soon as they qualify for it... time should be close, right?

[Benmage]

I love meta. It takes a keen eye to notice subtle nuances which when picked up on seem glaring. Out of personal curiosity what games of mine did you take closer looks at?

I can't really be of much assistance right now... work.. phone.. etc.

[lewarcher82]

I skimmed all your game overs, and picked 4 which I read in ISO: I iso'ed BBM large normal, Simpsons Mafia, Pick your Power and Choose Your Side.

Interestingly, in Simpsons Mafia you were scum and kept off the wagon on town mist on day 1, which could be the same you did here if you are scum.

Unfortunately, you did not comment on that choice in the QT, which makes it half as helpful as it would have been if you had explicitely theorized it.

[ALinebacker]

Benmage is fail. Our vote stays.


No, you may not know who our heads are.

[Captain Haoala]

Hey, just letting everyone know we're still here! I've been busy (what with people keeping me awake till 1am, and friend's 21sts), but I will have time this week to post.
I'm off to bed now, I'll be posting in the morning.

For the benefit of my other head, the mod, and all the other players, I will be V/LA thisFriday through to Sunday. Just giving you the heads-up

[Hellhound1]

@Hell: please give me your read of Lurco.

his only content filled post was very null. Leaning town imo.

Id like to see if sleuth will follow up with what he said.
He was very sheepy and didnt really answer any questions, at least not to a level that equals a valid answer. i know the random.org thing was yesterday, but its more to do with how he said it, rather than what he said.

So VOTE: Sleuth

[Lurconis]

Hey everyone still here.

Anyway from my perspective if BenMage is scum then Hellhound is as well. I realize this is a gut read but with his RNG vote being Ben that is an easy way to try and distance himself from his partner earlier. He also didn't weigh in on benmage or gaylord which are pretty much what the last two pages have been about.

I think Ben was reacting too hard to two votes, and has been focusing on defense rather than scumhunting which is suspicious.
@Ben even with all your post over the last two pages you haven't voted just wondering if that is because you find no one scummy.

I've never seen someone selfvote before killer so don't know if that is normally a town thing or scum thing, could someone who has seen this multiple times weigh in preferably with links to games where it's happened?

As of right now I am voting HH until I hear his thoughts on ben VOTE: Hellhound1

I should be around much more this weekend than I have been this past week sorry once again.

[lewarcher82]

I've never seen someone selfvote before killer so don't know if that is normally a town thing or scum thing, could someone who has seen this multiple times weigh in preferably with links to games where it's happened?

why? what do you need it for? killer already flipped. <-- no rhetorical question: answer it.

I tend to think that one of lurco&hell is scum... interesting pattern: hell says lurco is town, lurco votes hell.

@lurco: if we vote hell and he flips town, who would you FoS?

[Lurconis]

I want to know because, if it is normally a town tell I would be more suspicious of Gaylord for hammering after the self vote.


Well I'm not in favor of a hell lynch at this point i just voted to apply pressure until he weighs in on the Benmage situation mainly.

I don't feel enough people have voiced opinions on hellhound to say who I would FOS on if he flipped town at this point.

[Hellhound1]

Hey everyone still here.

Anyway from my perspective if BenMage is scum then Hellhound is as well. I realize this is a gut read but with his RNG vote being Ben that is an easy way to try and distance himself from his partner earlier. He also didn't weigh in on benmage or gaylord which are pretty much what the last two pages have been about.

Ill split that into 2 points

1)

I realize this is a gut read

Theres my first problem.

RNG vote being Ben that is an easy way to try and distance himself from his partner earlier.

Are you pushing the RNG = scummy thing too? I thought i explained it was an actual random vote... -.-

Anyway, gut reads and sheeping other peoples ideas from D1 do not make a valid argument imo.

2)

He also didn't weigh in on benmage or gaylord which are pretty much what the last two pages have been about.

Yeah RL sort of got in the way of mafia, what with A level results, work etc all of a sudden piling stuff on me. But thats out the way (hopefully)



Anyway onto the scum hunting..

until he weighs in on the Benmage situation

i fail to see much of a situation, in fact id much rather look at the Gaylord hammer, especially with not telling us who the heads are.
Yeah ben over reacted, but then i feel i do too when i play town, so over reactions are not a scum tell for me. Rather, someone who avoids the attention until it falls onto someone else is scummier.
Id also like to take a look at don_johnson, his points against ben seem to be weak.

Anyway, sleuth still hasnt said anything so m vote stays. And ill try to post more.

[lewarcher82]

in my experience, self-vote is more often done by frustrated town VI's... I wouldn't hammer one... but then again, it is also frequent for scum to try the self-vote card in order to get town cred by looking like a frustrated town... in general, many experienced players regard self-vote as a proof that the self-voter, even if he is town, is no more than an unexperienced and clueless VT and decide to hammer.

@hellhound: I don't think that Gaylord would be terribly worried at us seeing his meta; he appears to be an experienced player, and meta'ing a hydra is very difficult. They can decide not to share their identities. I would have liked to trying meta'ing them, but their refusal to out themselves should not be regarded as a certain scumtell.

what bothers me in Gaylord's activity is the shortness of his posts... if he wants to vote ben, he should provide us with a case.

sleuth managed to do very little, so I appreciate the idea of pressuring him.

but I don't like hell's last post. There is something subtly scummy in the psychology of it, especially in the way he argumentates in the first half of it. When someone says:

your logic is invalid

, instead of saying:

bullshit, I am town

, a bell rings in my head. It's ringing now.

Suggestion: everyone should post the name of his strongest townread. If we agree to do it, I will explain the reason later in game. Mine is DJ, I already explained why.

[Hellhound1]

but I don't like hell's last post. There is something subtly scummy in the psychology of it, especially in the way he argumentates in the first half of it. When someone says:

your logic is invalid

, instead of saying:

bullshit, I am town

, a bell rings in my head. It's ringing now.

Ooh sorry for defending myself, ill be sure to not do that again. Oh and if someone says to me "Thats bullshit im town" and leave it that, then that in itself is scummy. Either way, id have to defend myself. Just because i do it more subtly and dont over react and get pissy, that doesnt make me scum.
Oh and isnt bells ringing in your head the first sign of insanity

would have liked to trying meta'ing them, but their refusal to out themselves should not be regarded as a certain scumtell.

Of course it isnt, its just really unhelpful.

what bothers me in Gaylord's activity is the shortness of his posts... if he wants to vote ben, he should provide us with a case.

I played with someone else who had short, one line posts. Turned out they were a brilliant player, and almost caught me out.
So i kind of disagree, but its a good idea to keep an eye out.

sleuth managed to do very little, so I appreciate the idea of pressuring him.

Id

really

like some answers from him. Or just something from him..

Strongest town read?
Umm.. thats really quite hard. Id happily hammer most of you, but id have to go for you, lew, for actually looking at meta, a good town tell imo.

[Sleuth]

I'm guilty of being way too busy to have joined this game. Apologies to everyone, especially the mod.

It seems like a lot of people in this game have had less activity than me. I'm all for pressuring some of them (hypocritical, I know) because the people who are posting the most seem town to me.

[Benmage]

Alrighty here’s where I left off top of pg 4.

unvote, vote: killerX029

a) this is not the newb forum, "playing the newb card" is disallowed.
b) your reasoning for the vote on sleuth makes no sense in light of the fact that two players just got prodded with a combined post total equal to that of sleuth.

rng=scum is not "crap". that was a logical argument as far as i can tell. not rock solid, but certainly not fallacious in the way it was presented.

a. horrrrrrrrrrrible reasoning. Soooo many newbs skip the newbie zone and efffing suck!
-Surely you must've run across utter newbs outside the newbie zone...

UNVOTE: Sleuth
VOTE: KillerX029

I will remain silent until set date from now on. my logic is that the next two to vote for me without conclusive evidence is most likely part of the mafia. if nobody votes for me until the set date, one or more of the people who voted for me are most likely mafia trying to score an early kill.

Wow... not even some emotional dung...but some sort of twisty trap?

Capt summed it up nicely here

While killer looked bad.. and his lynch probably still would’ve gone through… nothing town about speed hammering ever.

dammit, not much info as far as i can see. really don't like the gaylord hammer regardless of the flip. consider yourself my number one suspect atm. i am really interested to see if you respond to my request for a post or if you lurk til the death scene.

Interesting

Bad
This is his first post today..after yesterday ends with others voicing their suspicion of him.

Total hydra excuse cover-up. Last time I saw shit like this…was ACoK (a class of kings by eddard stark)..and the hydra was scum.

This is a really bad bandwagon. IGMEOY, JAMFTW.

?

To summarise this hydra's position, we're gonna
VOTE: JAMFTW
and

FOS: Gaylord

Are you suggesting busing here?

Or these two opposite alignments?

i don't see anything wrong with jam's vote today, but he pinged my scumdar day 1, so i'll have to go back and reread and refresh my memory as to why...

Did you look into this?

This experience may have colored my viewpoint a bit, but I feel very justified in voting for the person who ended the day early. And the only reason I was "quick to jump on the wagon" was because teamsleep beat me to it. I would have been first on the wagon had I gotten to the thread before him.

^He voiced suspicion after the hammer.. I dont see it as bad or opportunistic.

Lews summary is pretty accurate. This parts peculiar:

@everyone: we are now 11, with

likely

3 scum (hopefully not 4, but it cannot be excluded 100%). We might assume no killing 3p, but it is still early to be sure. Please do not build wagons too quickly. Newbies should be particularly careful, or we will throw the game in the toilet.

I’m relatively new to these 13 player minis… but has there ever been a 4 man scum team in a mini normal? Have you seen one?

(That... pretty much brings me up to speed... I'll comment on the new shit shortly)