Open 326: Pick Your Poison (Ende des Speils!)

[Maruchan]

L-2 btw guys

[glowball]

And this is what happens when the game progresses at an alarming rate... L-2 on page 10. I am not ready for this day to end, but I am also not in the mood to unvote so I just ask that anyone even thinking of voting Maruchan hold their votes for more discussion.

I WANT EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THIS WAGON AND ITS PROGRESSION

[RoboThor]

My Thoughts == Why the heck isn't Nobody Special not about to die?

[RoboThor]

That was me, Robo, btw.

[glowball]

My Thoughts == Why the heck isn't Nobody Special not about to die?

I can't support that Day 1, at this point if we lynch Nobody Special we will be back to square one in the next day phase regardless of the flip. I don't think that lynch is scum and I see no point in lynching a townie for no information, I mean besides the fact that YOU want him lynched. Which could be bussing or an honest mistake.

[Maruchan]

And this is what happens when the game progresses at an alarming rate... L-2 on page 10. I am not ready for this day to end, but I am also not in the mood to unvote so I just ask that anyone even thinking of voting Maruchan hold their votes for more discussion.

I WANT EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THIS WAGON AND ITS PROGRESSION

"I don't want him to hang but when he does hang I want to make sure I'm not the hammer"

Thats what that post sounded like to me tbh

[Maruchan]

My Thoughts == Why the heck isn't Nobody Special not about to die?

I can't support that Day 1, at this point if we lynch Nobody Special we will be back to square one in the next day phase regardless of the flip. I don't think that lynch is scum and I see no point in lynching a townie for no information, I mean besides the fact that YOU want him lynched. Which could be bussing or an honest mistake.

"I think he's town so lynching him won't give us any information, except you could be bussing him, which means he is scum even though I said he is town"

huh? I honestly am confused as to this post

[glowball]

And this is what happens when the game progresses at an alarming rate... L-2 on page 10. I am not ready for this day to end, but I am also not in the mood to unvote so I just ask that anyone even thinking of voting Maruchan hold their votes for more discussion.

I WANT EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THIS WAGON AND ITS PROGRESSION

"I don't want him to hang but when he does hang I want to make sure I'm not the hammer"

Thats what that post sounded like to me tbh

I am already voting so this makes no sense to me...

My Thoughts == Why the heck isn't Nobody Special not about to die?

I can't support that Day 1, at this point if we lynch Nobody Special we will be back to square one in the next day phase regardless of the flip. I don't think that lynch is scum and I see no point in lynching a townie for no information, I mean besides the fact that YOU want him lynched. Which could be bussing or an honest mistake.

"I think he's town so lynching him won't give us any information, except you could be bussing him, which means he is scum even though I said he is town"

huh? I honestly am confused as to this post

But I would like to say BRAVO. You have basically sealed my vote. When exactly did I become your scum suspect? When I started questioning you? This is just you OMGUS placing arguments against me without a vote and trying to discredit me. You are a feeler.

[glowball]

Oh and to address the bottom post- I was going through the scenarios for EITHER flip. If NoBody Special flipped scum or town it gives NULL information and turns into WIFOM which is probably why you didn't understand it..

[saulres]

Okay, here's my first scumhunting post this thread.

At the beginning of the day Maruchan and glowball teamed up, in that order, to vote for Auckmid during RVS, glowball not providing any reason. Yes, in RVS the reasons are meaningless, but here, there was none at all. This was quickly followed by Amrum joining the bandwagon.

Then, very quickly, both glowball and Maruchan jumped on me for RPing instead of RVoting. Once again, Maruchan's vote came first, followed by glowball's. After that they found numerous points to argue about, with the pressure being applied from glowball to Marachun regularly, until finally she voted for him, but only when it took him to L-2. His vote is elsewhere, but her vote is on him, and she's pushing for him or me to by lynched, but angling more for him than for me.

In Post 83, she mentions having used bussing very effectively in another game. Because in Post 56 she invited us to look at her wiki page, I did so, found that game, and discovered that in it, she and another mafia were bussing each other, with the other one applying all the votes and pressure her way, while she went in another direction -- a complete parallel to what we're seeing here, only with her role and the other scum's reversed in this game.

So the way I see it, the two of them agreed, along with a third person (we'll get to that soon) to bus Marachun while pairing him with a convenient townie scapegoat (which would be me for those of you keeping track), so that after the bus she could lead the charge against the scapegoat and look solid townie.

Yes, it's meta, and therefore might not mean anything, but it's way too coincidental for me. Especially when, for reasons I still can't understand and don't feel ever were successfully explained, Maruchan encouraged voting on himself.

Now the question remains, who's the 3rd? Amrum seems likes a good choice, given he joined their first bandwagon as I showed above. His vote now though is off somewhere else, on someone nobody has expressed a scumread for (lane). He could be planning to give the hammer vote, though, once Marachun's at L-1.

So that's my current triumverate of scum: Maruchan, glowball, and possibly Amrum. I heartily suggest we lynch Maruchan to see if this theory bears any fruit. As a side benefit, it should be easier to catch up on the reading.

I should now be able to keep up with questions, although work will still be especially time-consuming this week.

[Maruchan]

And this is what happens when the game progresses at an alarming rate... L-2 on page 10. I am not ready for this day to end, but I am also not in the mood to unvote so I just ask that anyone even thinking of voting Maruchan hold their votes for more discussion.

I WANT EVERYONE'S THOUGHTS ON THIS WAGON AND ITS PROGRESSION

"I don't want him to hang but when he does hang I want to make sure I'm not the hammer"

Thats what that post sounded like to me tbh

I am already voting so this makes no sense to me...

My Thoughts == Why the heck isn't Nobody Special not about to die?

I can't support that Day 1, at this point if we lynch Nobody Special we will be back to square one in the next day phase regardless of the flip. I don't think that lynch is scum and I see no point in lynching a townie for no information, I mean besides the fact that YOU want him lynched. Which could be bussing or an honest mistake.

"I think he's town so lynching him won't give us any information, except you could be bussing him, which means he is scum even though I said he is town"

huh? I honestly am confused as to this post

But I would like to say BRAVO. You have basically sealed my vote. When exactly did I become your scum suspect? When I started questioning you? This is just you OMGUS placing arguments against me without a vote and trying to discredit me. You are a feeler.

Did I ever call you a scum suspect? No. I was telling you how I interpreted your posts, and why I didn't quite get them.

[Maruchan]

Oh and to address the bottom post- I was going through the scenarios for EITHER flip. If NoBody Special flipped scum or town it gives NULL information and turns into WIFOM which is probably why you didn't understand it..

Oh yes lets poke at Maruchan and pretend he is an idiot and doesn't understand basic concepts liek WIFOM.


lol, go read the QT of my scum-win newbie game. Almost all of our night kills were WIFOM-inspired, and lead by me explaining why they were good WIFOM kills. I understand WIFOM, thanks.

[Maruchan]

Okay, here's my first scumhunting post this thread.

At the beginning of the day Maruchan and glowball teamed up, in that order, to vote for Auckmid during RVS, glowball not providing any reason. Yes, in RVS the reasons are meaningless, but here, there was none at all. This was quickly followed by Amrum joining the bandwagon.

Then, very quickly, both glowball and Maruchan jumped on me for RPing instead of RVoting. Once again, Maruchan's vote came first, followed by glowball's. After that they found numerous points to argue about, with the pressure being applied from glowball to Marachun regularly, until finally she voted for him, but only when it took him to L-2. His vote is elsewhere, but her vote is on him, and she's pushing for him or me to by lynched, but angling more for him than for me.

In Post 83, she mentions having used bussing very effectively in another game. Because in Post 56 she invited us to look at her wiki page, I did so, found that game, and discovered that in it, she and another mafia were bussing each other, with the other one applying all the votes and pressure her way, while she went in another direction -- a complete parallel to what we're seeing here, only with her role and the other scum's reversed in this game.

So the way I see it, the two of them agreed, along with a third person (we'll get to that soon) to bus Marachun while pairing him with a convenient townie scapegoat (which would be me for those of you keeping track), so that after the bus she could lead the charge against the scapegoat and look solid townie.

Yes, it's meta, and therefore might not mean anything, but it's way too coincidental for me. Especially when, for reasons I still can't understand and don't feel ever were successfully explained, Maruchan encouraged voting on himself.

Now the question remains, who's the 3rd? Amrum seems likes a good choice, given he joined their first bandwagon as I showed above. His vote now though is off somewhere else, on someone nobody has expressed a scumread for (lane). He could be planning to give the hammer vote, though, once Marachun's at L-1.

So that's my current triumverate of scum: Maruchan, glowball, and possibly Amrum. I heartily suggest we lynch Maruchan to see if this theory bears any fruit. As a side benefit, it should be easier to catch up on the reading.

I should now be able to keep up with questions, although work will still be especially time-consuming this week.

Wow. This dude does his research. He;s really taught me to be careful who I fight with. O.o Now me fighting with Glowball as turned into scum-reads for us both due to Gowball's past games. Thats is by far the most interesting case ever used against me that I have seen.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP: Piece of advice, never make scum-team predictions on D1. Then when you get lucky and one of them was scum, you'll be inclined to think the rest of the townies are scum too.

[Nobody Special]

Okay, here's the deal: RoboThor is incredibly town, even though their read on me is completely wrong.

NihilisticNinja is probscum. Shouldn't be avoiding the thread. I assume he found out how hard it is to

appear

town and gave up.

SupremeOverlord is rather town.

Maruchan, howver.......

A question for Maruchan: Let's go back to your iso#29. Why is thunderweilder so very town? Do you not agree that scum could say the very same thing?

Amrun, as much as I hate to say it, is most likely town, also.

[Supreme Overlord]

I thought that his intentionally acting scummy was detrimental to the town and voted for him to discourage it.

Sounds like you're calling him town.

I can see why you might think that. Either a) he's town and I'm voting him to discourage him from being anti-town or b) he's scum and I'm voting scum.

I'm worried that regardless of your alignment, your force of will and reputation might be enough to prevent other players from attacking those you are protecting.

And if I'm town and correct that will be awesome for us - and even if I'm wrong on one I'm pretty sure not all the scum are in that batch.

I'm willing to let this go for today and possibly the rest of the game as well. You're the first player I've played with who uses this method, so I'll reserve judgement on how well it works until postgame.

WHo is your top town read?
Would you support their lynch today?

Top town read would probably be Amrun; he's showing that he's thinking and questioning. Amrun, do you have anything to add for your case on lane?
Much as it hurts to say this, RoboThor is probably in second place; his stances and strategy sounds genuinely town-oriented.
I'm mostly happy with lane, thunder and Ninja; the first two have each done something questionable (trying to guide conversation and failing to vote glowball, respectively), while Ninja hasn't been around recently.

I'd support a lynch on Maruchan, and possibly NS (pending him coming back). I have uneasy feelings on glowball and saulres, but I think that's more playstyle than anything.

Meanwhile, no one has said much of anything about NS as he's lurked through everything - so I figured I'd speed lynch him since no one would oppose me. You should vote him too, if he flips scum I'll probably drop my issues with you.

A tempting offer. I'll decide when he actually returns.

NS and Overlord...nah, I mean if you don't agree with my Maruchan case then why ask for my reads on others?

It's not just RoboThor who wants to know; it just happened to be him that asked. Any particular reason why you're withholding this information?

give me a template to follow so that my actions aren't scum

Make a case on your suspects and continue adding to it, and whenever someone attacks you, defend against it. If they drop it, they either keep pressing their redundant case (which you can use in a counterattack), or they'll come up with something new. If so, defend against that too. Shouldn't be that hard if you're town.

The back and forth between glowball and Maruchan about having enough time to play took us nowhere.

My Thoughts == Why the heck isn't Nobody Special not about to die?

I can't support that Day 1, at this point if we lynch Nobody Special we will be back to square one in the next day phase regardless of the flip. I don't think that lynch is scum and I see no point in lynching a townie for no information

I agree with this post, expect replace 'I don't think that lynch is scum' with 'I have nothing with which to decide whether or not NS is scum'.

Wow. This dude does his research. He;s really taught me to be careful who I fight with. O.o Now me fighting with Glowball as turned into scum-reads for us both due to Gowball's past games. Thats is by far the most interesting case ever used against me that I have seen.

Want to defend against it? Or should we just assume that you concede that it's valid, and get on with lynching you?

NihilisticNinja is probscum.

What makes you think so? His posts look pretty town to me, and it looks like he's flaked rather than avoiding the thread.

I can't say I'm impressed with this post, although it did at least have some reads. Nobody Special, are you still on V/LA or still catching up, or is that all we're going to get from you?

[Amrun]

I'm not sure you are in the position to be giving advice, Maruchan. There's nothing wrong with making acumteam predictions at any time.

Glowball, I don't like your case on glowball. It's based almost entirely on playstyle. In particular, the point about Maruchan saying that there shouldn't be double standards was bad, because he was absolutely correct.

Also, I dislike how you flip out at him on this page. He pointed out a couple of posts of ytours that literally did not make sense and all of a sudden you're mad that you're his top suspect (which you don't seem to be)? It's hypocritical to criticize him both for scu$hunting and not scumhinting.

I do agree that maruchan could scumhunt more, though.

Saulres, I appreciate the effort and research, but an entirely meta-based case is a bad one. Also , rvs wagons are very useful, or can be, and no scumteam would so obviously link themselves.

P-edit: why would you hate to say I was town, ns?


Sorry, robo, don't feel like lynching ns today.

[Supreme Overlord]

Sorry, robo, don't feel like lynching ns today.

Why not? Presumably something in his recent post convinced you. Wouldn't happen to be:

Amrun, as much as I hate to say it, is most likely town, also.

Would it?

[glowball]

Oh I am not doing this again...are you guys serious?

Maybe the case on Maruchan isn't clear to you because that stuff about double standards was completely wrong. He twists, and I didn't freak out on him, I just noticed how he likes to point things out without taking definitive stances. He's a feeler he'll put something out there to see if it'll take. But if we are just going to be ridiculous you can lynch me now.

[Maruchan]

A question for Maruchan: Let's go back to your iso#29. Why is thunderweilder so very town? Do you not agree that scum could say the very same thing?

They COULD yes. But i usually see town do it rather than scum.

It was one of those off-hand remarks I have been seeing many of the members of the site making. I figured it was how most people played. When they saw a town-tell early-game on a null-read I have seen many people just pop in and say "Blabla is town", so thats what I did.

[Maruchan]

Wow. This dude does his research. He;s really taught me to be careful who I fight with. O.o Now me fighting with Glowball as turned into scum-reads for us both due to Gowball's past games. Thats is by far the most interesting case ever used against me that I have seen.

Want to defend against it? Or should we just assume that you concede that it's valid, and get on with lynching you?

I don't see what realyl I can defend here. Sure glowbal lmay have doen that i nthe past, but I wasn't aware of this. I usualyl don't read other players' games unless I have a reason too or else it messes up my mind a little for all the other games I am currently in. makes it harder to remember if the thing I remember them saying was this game or that 60-page game I rad just for kicks.

Heck, I still haven;t read the game he linked to. The link could be complete and utter Bullshit, and I wouldn't know.

[Maruchan]

I'm not sure you are in the position to be giving advice, Maruchan. There's nothing wrong with making acumteam predictions at any time.

I give advice that I feel needs to be given no matter the time of game.

If I am triple-town PR confirmed scum, on the lynching block, 1 vote away from a lynch, I wil lstill give advice that I think needs to be given. Even if it is treated like bullshit, I still want it to be there so that when end-game comes, I can say I adviced someone against something.

Honestly, swear to god. My advice when I specifically state it as giving advice, whether I am pro-town or anti-town will always be adivce that I think is sound advice. Thats just how I play.

[glowball]

ALSO, I'll Ive heard is defense of Maruchan from the case Ive present YET he is the lead wagon...

Plus I find it odd that NONE of you have a problem with his blatant lack of caring to follow up on scumhunting questions, it's an obvious scum display of not really caring about it.

[Nobody Special]

Supreme: Still on V/LA.

Amrun: You're

always

town, dammit.

[Maruchan]

ALSO, I'll Ive heard is defense of Maruchan from the case Ive present YET he is the lead wagon...

Plus I find it odd that NONE of you have a problem with his blatant lack of caring to follow up on scumhunting questions, it's an obvious scum display of not really caring about it.

I thought I posted something about doing this later tomorrow. If not I apologize.

My grandparents were in town all weekend and just left this afternoon, and so I had planned a nice ISO and re-read and analysis tomorrow or Wednesday (since tomorrow I have my Navy DEP meeting)