Newbie 1151 ÔÇô Game Over

[Xeras]

Johhog, When you catch up, can you please give your opinion on racerman. ^^

[Isa]

Hej Johhog 2-0...close one. Almost got into CL.
Eagerly awaiting your reads.

[Krazy]

Xeras, would you mind updating your list of reads to include Isa and Stels?

[Johhog]

Racercar, If this game started on a night phase, who would you have killed if you were mafia?

Urgh, this hurts to read. Why Xeras, why?

Hey JonW007. I saw you viewing. : D Please post.

Hm, interesting, but I don't know what conclusion to draw from this.

I asked Racerman because he seemed the scummiest out of the people that have posted thus far.

Holy cannoli, this post may be one of the scummiest page 1 posts I've ever seen! Scummy, by posting a normal random vote? C'mon.

1. If you feel he is scum, you should be voting him.
2. If something struck you as scummy, you should point it out.
3. You should confront him, and make sure he explains his actions to you.

Exactly.

Epsilon, this would be odd.

Unvote, Vote Ranmaru

SCUM SCUM SCUM. This is outrageous. You express suspicion of racerman, and then you vote Ranmaru and put him at L-2? Why on earth would you do that?

My name actually comes from the Wall Flower Manga. : P The name there was based on the original Ranmaru I think. : D

Aw, I always thought it was after Mori Ranmaru, Japanese sengoku warlord Oda Nobunaga's lover. Yeah, I'm quite interested in Japanese history.

Vote Xeras

This is for putting a player at L-2 and not acknowledging that the player is at L-2.

OK vote, but remember that Xeras is a newb.
---
Also guys, why didn't you have any real RQS? I would demand that in a game with so many experienced players.
---

I actually would say that not posting L-2 would be more of a 'townslip'.

The few times I have played as scum, I would not let that type of thing slip if I was scum. I am quite precise with what I post. Even if it doesn't seem like it most of the time.

Ew, so you're referencing your own town meta? Happened in my first game, when Spadille referenced his own town meta. Turned out he was scum. Check the game out, Newbie 1112, racerman also was in that game.

To me, a peacock is someone that likes to divert the attention onto themselves. A cat would be someone who tries to hide and lurk.
I did through out a dog, but it is just because Epsilon seems to have a 'loyal' trait to him. Though, I want to see how far that goes.did through out a dog, but it is just because Epsilon seems to have a 'loyal' trait to him. Though, I want to see how far that goes.

Interesting. I'm definitely a peacock.

Xeras, I would have killed the IC.

Why did you feel the need to answer this?

Once you answered, I will as well. I would have killed Off the Mark if I were mafia.

And why did you feel the need to write this?

I have thought of voting you as an RVS, but I thought it would be better to use it on someone new to get a read on them.

This post makes me feel particularly uneasy. Basically, admitting to have taken the easy path? Sir, you won some more time from my vote on you.

I don't agree. I would've done the same, it's better to get a safe read on the Newbies as you don't know them.

UNVOTE: Ranmaru

This vote is getting me no where, and I don't want someone to hammer when I am asleep.

It is not even L-1, and I'm not seeing you putting that vote elsewhere.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xeras

Let's get this party starting.

Um, yeah, I agree. Having said that, personally, despite Xeras scumminess, I have a gut feeling he's town. And my gut tend to be right. I have a gutscumread on Lord so far too.

UNVOTE: Ranmaru

This vote is getting me no where, and I don't want someone to hammer

when I am asleep

.

It is not even L-1, and I'm not seeing you putting that vote elsewhere.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xeras

Let's get this party starting.

First off, he stated he wouldn't want anyone to be hammered while asleep, so obviously it wouldn't go anywhere regardless. Afterwards, he explained to you his reasoning.

There have been no other posters besides Krazy me Epsilon Xeras and you. It's obvious his vote wouldn't go anywhere else since he doesn't have enough leads yet.

Now after reading this, why is your vote still on him?

Unvote Vote: Lord

L-2

I feel you don't really think Xeras is scum yet you use those reasons to justify 'getting the party started', and after he explains you don't really explain why you are still voting him.

I get a fishy feeling from this, but I can't put my finger on it.

Xeras, HOW did you have a gut feeling that I was scum when I'd made ONE POST that was an RVS VOTE? That launches my suspicion of you up a bunch of notches. I think you were trying to find an easy mafia target.

Vote: Xeras

Oh boy, this is some scummy bandwagoning.

...What. The. Fuck.

I voted Ranmaru because it was the

Random Voting Stage

.How to you make something out of that? I have never played a game with you before. You are completely out of your fucking mind with paranoia. I say one word and you find SOME REASON to attack it.

This game has been a total mindfuck so far.

Hm, seems a bit faked... just a gut feeling though.

Oh hai thar!
Replacing Off the Mark

and since I haven't placed an RVS vote either this is where my vote will stay for the moment.

Ok, townpoints for this. Not scum mentality. We'll see how you'll perform later.

Buddying to Krazy. =/ Ranmaru ninja'd me by miles.

ok, I don't know whats going on, but this is the second comment I tried to put that hasn't gone through. I understand that Lord may not have seen the earlier vote, but I still wish to hear his say on it.

You probably pressed the "Submit" button and it showed you the preview of your post and/or posters before you. You probably just proceeded to browsing elsewhere after that thinking your post went through.

Spoiler: Xeras Poem

a cat came drifting onto my porch from the outside cold
and with eyes closed, drinking warm milk from my bowl,
thought:

"nobody hears me!(nobody hears me)
as I crept in so soft!
and nobody sees me!(nobody sees me)
as I watched six steps off."

like the peacocks wandering the walkways of the zoo
who have twice the autonomy the giraffes and the tigers do,
saying:

"no one can stop me,(no one can stop me)
no one clips my claws!
now everyone watch me(everyone watch me)
scale these outside walls!"

The cat part reminded me of the Female Khajeet at the entrance to the Shivering Isles in TES4: Oblivion, Shivering Isles Expansion. "You can't see me, no one can see me".
As well as the Dementia and Bliss parts of the main town with the opposite sides of the coin.

I fucked up. Me and Lord are leaving the site. Bye.

WTF? Even if you did fuck up with you posting from Meransiel (assuming you are Lord). It's not such a serious offense as to leave the site.

VOTE: Lord. Paranoia, buddying, false crediting. Kinda didn't want to vote after 'that' ^^

Seems earnest.

Hey folks, I'm Isa. I've read the thread once but I'll do it again, my initial suspicions are on Xeras though.

Ranmaru: HAPPY FEET. WOMBO COMBO! (There can't be too many Ranmaru's around, right?)

LOL. DID YOU JUST SAY WOMBO COMBO xDDDDDD

You from Smash Boards eh? ;o

Welcome Isa!

I have a feeling that Ranmaru and Isa at least not is scum together. Scum would try to stay away from connections like this one.
---
Without quoting the whole post Xeras #131 is kinda good.

Johhog, When you catch up, can you please give your opinion on racerman. ^^

Look further down!

Hej Johhog 2-0...close one. Almost got into CL.
Eagerly awaiting your reads.

Tjena! Well, it failed... again. Was 2002 the last time we got into CL, I *think* Helsingborg was in CL then? I'm from Skåne btw, so be glad that you have the benefit to read my posts in English.
---
So well, my reads is, from scum to town:

Lord

Something doesn't look right here. Almost like he is trying to look town and that he is trying to jump on "good" bandwagons. Just a gut feeling, but this game is incredibly hard to read.

Xeras

Dependant on the Lordflip. I think that one of them is scum, but not both. Xeras was hardcore scummy early in the game, but he's been more town recently.

Krazy

Hard to get a read on, but he's kinda... sketchy in some way. It's worth to note though that I'm usually suspecting the IC. Well, believe me when I say I have a hard time to explain my reads. I usually only use gut.

racerman13

Yeah, some of his reactions looks faked, so a nullscum for me, but overall nothing to see here.

Isa

A little bit too early for a read, but she's looking quite aggressive this far. Null.

Stels

Also too early for a read, but the little content he posted is townish. Nulltown.

Epsilon_Andrew

It seems like he genuinely wants to contribute, and he is looking quite pro-town right now. Nulltown.

Ranmaru

I think he's town. He's acting in a pro-town way and has well reasoned posts. If he's scum I'm afraid of him. Town.

---
So yah, I got bored halfway through, so I have more posts quoted from the first half of the game. Please ask me if you wanna know something.

[Krazy]

Nice post Johhog. Tell me, how do you feel about a Lord/Isa scumteam?

[racerman13]

Check the game out, Newbie 1112, racerman also was in that game.

Don't pay any attention to my posts, I played like complete shit -_-
[quote="Johhog] Why did you feel the need to answer this?[/quote]
I felt like he wouldn't shut up until I did. It doesn't really matter, scum isn't going to gain any useful information by me answering that question...

Johhog, I feel the same way about Xeras/Lord. One of them is scum. Pretty sure it's Xeras, though.

[Johhog]

Nice post Johhog. Tell me, how do you feel about a Lord/Isa scumteam?

Possible. Actually, that's a quite neat idea, ESPECIALLY considering that one of the flakers was scum. I know that I'm town... so um, yeah. Will ISO them (like there is anything to ISO ) and try to find connections.

racerman: Why do you think Xeras is scum and Lord is town, if you sum it up in just a couple of sentences?

[Johhog]

EBWOP: considering that one of the flakers probably was scum.

[Johhog]

Aw, no connections at all, just the classical nulltown read... quite common with just one scumbuddy.

[Johhog]

Just so I can quadripost (well, not ONLY because of that) I will VOTE: Lord btw, L-2. I was going to end my catch-up post with that vote but forgot it.

[Lord]

And...wow. I didn't even expect this. Is it even SUPPOSED to be this easy?

unvote

VOTE: johhog

Racerman and Xeras are confirmed town. More on this tomorrow, but you can speculate if you want.

[Krazy]

I think you need to explain, Lord.

[Isa]

Lord, what is up with that...? I completely do not get why you find Johhog's post scummy (I disagree with his read on you and Stels though, but tbh nothing major), and somehow his post makes XERAS town, and out of all people, RACERMAN!?

Explain ASAP.

[racerman13]

WTF? How am i confirmed town?

Johhog, mainly for Xeras's incredibly baseless attacks. But now, I will

Unvote

. Now, it's like 50/50 between lord and xeras. OMGUS is a scumtell.

[Uite]

• Votecount 1.5
  
  
  [
  3
  ]
  Lord
  ~
  Ranmaru
  ,
  Stels
  ,
  Johhog
  
  [
  2
  ]
  Xeras
  ~
  Epsilon_Andrew
  ,
  Isa
  
  [
  1
  ]
  racerman13
  ~
  Xeras
  
  [
  1
  ]
  Stels
  ~
  Krazy
  
  [
  1
  ]
  Johhog
  ~
  Lord
  
  
  
  Not voting:
  
  
  racerman13
  
  
  
• With
  9
  alive, it takes
  5
  to lynch
  
• Deadline for Day 1 is Friday, 9^th of September 2011, at 11:55 CEST (UTC+2)

[Krazy]

So here's what I'm seeing. I apologize in advance for the wallpost:

1. If you feel he is scum, you should be voting him.
2. If something struck you as scummy, you should point it out.
3. You should confront him, and make sure he explains his actions to you.

is a great reply that further points out the scumminess of his actions.

This looks like a "what Ranmaru said" explanation for finding Xeras scummy; I'm not going to put words in Ranmaru's mouth here, but Ranmaru was not necessarily saying here that Xeras was being scummy by not doing these things. I find this additionally troubling in the way that Stels has a very similar "I agree with what Krazy said" statement in regard to Stels. Both of Isa's cases on their main suspects seem to be sheeps.

Also, let it be known that you shall ALWAYS state when a player is put at L-1 or L-2. If you put someone at L-1 and you're not stating it, I'll take that as scummy.

This is both inconsistent with Isa's own behavior (several people have put people at L-1 or L-2 without saying so this game), and also seems to be just simply a bit odd of a reaction. I know I voted Xeras early game for not noting a vote was L-2, but that was pretty close to an RVS vote, and this seems like weird meta to insert into the game.

Second, there's a fine line between being "proactive" and "scummy", and fishing for reactions the way you did it was more scummy than proactive.
Third, trying to make a case on someone due to RVS voting isn't something to go on at all. It's the RANDOM voting stage.

The second point here is pretty good, and it indeed accounts for much of the wagon on Xeras (which he seems to have baited), but it does not make Xeras scum in and of itself.

The third point I have a bit more of a problem with... making cases off the weird stuff people do during RVS is a large part of what attributes to the development of a midgame.

I second pretty much everything Krazy said in his #103 - I get a gut read on Stels as scum as well. Stels reply in #105 is nothing I like to see either (AtE, the "IC-like"-comment).

I point this out more to directly follow up in the post below:

Here you are...

TOWN:
Isa
Ranmaru (I get a very solid feeling of town here, his arguments makes mostly sense and I see nothing really questionable)
Racerman (for having a constant battle with Xeras, also strikes me as genuine)

Lord (same as Ranmaru, really, gut has him as a slightly lower read for some reason - still a clear townread to me)

NULL:

Krazy (

Nothing worth mentioning,

really...leaning town)

Epsilon (suggesting a No Lynch in #55, nothing else strikes me as suspicious)
Jeffiej (hasn't posted)

SCUM:

Stels

Xeras
These have been explained in my previous post.

VOTE: Xeras THIS IS L-1. NOBODY HAMMER.

What I notice here is that despite "sheeping" my case on Stels so much that Stels ends up being put as a #2 candidate, I end up being a "null" having "nothing worth mentioning." I also don't understand the read of racerman as town but Epsilon as null, and the Lord as town bit leaves me wondering.

Now we compare to Lord's treatment of Isa:

Town -

Isa,

Ranmaru
Leaning Town - Stels
Null - racerman13
Fuck you (treat this as null) - Jeffiej
Leaning Scum - Krazy,

Epsilon

Scum - Xeras

There's two things in particular I notice here: first, Lord lists Epsilon here as one of his top three candidates--yet he has not even said Epsilon's name yet before this post. Seems pretty random.

The other thing I notice is his town read on Isa, which is interesting in itself, but additionally when you compare it to how he mostly washes over Isa's read of Stels, which is largely a sheep of my vote, yet uses my pressure on Stels as a reason to keep me in his top 3. Both also keep Epsilon high in suspicion and racerman as low in suspicion, which also makes me wonder where that reasoning is coming from (especially for Lord on Epsilon, who lists him in top three despite never mentioning him).

I'm interested in Lord and Isa's reactions to this constellation of apparently erratic suspicions, as, were they both playing a very very standard game, would seem to suggest to me that they very easily could be a scum team together.

That being said, I'm just on the edge of my seat to see what on earth Lord will say in regard to how racerman and Xeras are both "confirmed town" and why he seems to think Johhog is scum.

[Epsilon_Andrew]

First off, hello Johhog. Nice to meet you. The name's Epsilon, as you have seen. Only thing I can really say about me is that this is one of my first games of mafia, so I don't really have a solid grasp on how to play yet. Getting there are time goes on though.

Still going over the past page and a half since I last posted, so if there is anything someone wants my opinion on, feel free to ask.

[Epsilon_Andrew]

Lord, you asked who I would vote to lynch if I couldn't vote Xeras. If I had to pick someone, it would be racerman.

WTF? How am i confirmed town?

Johhog, mainly for Xeras's incredibly baseless attacks. But now, I will

Unvote

. Now, it's like 50/50 between lord and xeras. OMGUS is a scumtell.

This quote is what seems to send up a red flag to me. Wondering how he is confirmed town? This just seems off to me. A town member would know he's town and not have to ask how he's town.

[Krazy]

This quote is what seems to send up a red flag to me. Wondering how he is confirmed town? This just seems off to me. A town member would know he's town and not have to ask how he's town.

He's not asking how he's town, he's asking why Lord would claim to know this.

ie, You know you are town, right? But you also know that no one else in this game knows you are town, such that you are confirmed to yourself but not to anyone else. So if Lord claimed you were confirmed town, this would raise the question as to how he would know this, and why he would say it if it is not known.

[Stels]

I think you're just going for the easy target right now. Very IC-like.

I don't really understand why you see yourself as an "easy target" and in any case this is pretty clearly downplaying my vote on you; if my vote on you is based off of a senseless gut read, then why do you feel the need to downplay my position, if it is already a weak stance to hold? This does not strike me as a very town-oriented reaction to my vote.

I've been feeling pretty strongly that most the arguments are town are town and that both of our scum are likely in the players that hadn't posted much yet, and right now, Stels I have a gut read on you as scum.

Do you policy-lynch lurkers/flakers?

No, but when most of the players posting strike me as more townish than scummy, then it only leads to the conclusion that among the less talkative players there are some mafia players. In any case, you are neither a lurker nor a flaker. Both of your posts have included what I consider to be scummy elements and accusations, first against Lord and now against me.

Bringing up a "policy-lynch" seems to have no point other than to downplay my position and distract from the things you actually are saying. I am not advocating a policy lynch, you just were the first person to say something in this game that genuinely struck me as scummy, and your reaction has strengthened my read on you as non-town.

I'm wondering why you use your weak gut-based case on someone who only posted once, instead of going along with the current game and it's current players. It's like you just went the easy way since you don't know where your vote should go to in situations like these.

Interesting developments. I am posting from my phone right now and it will be a few hours until I can elaborate on this from a computer with a keyboard.

So interesting that it makes you ignore them.

@Isa: Poor catch up post indeed. I'm not as enthusiastic when there is not much to comment 5 Pages in and 90% of the players being neutral.

@Krazy Buddy Examples:

Scum
Town
Town
Scum

=_=

@Krazy Lamshading: Except there was no one to compare the "If A flips ____ B is _____" with. It can't be compared to Game 3 as you may think. Again, he's not asking you to help him.
Town points for something bizarre as not RVS'ing? Makes no sense. Scum mentality? WIFOM.

I hate giving Mafia lessons to people, but here's one: there is no point in buddying someone if you don't know what his reads are yet as you might disagree with them (yes, this can happen EVEN if you are scum).

WIFOM. Disagreement can lead to agreement. Buddying with different reads makes it more believable that you're not scum. Still WIFOM.

Given the extreme consistency of this vote, here is a thought experiment for you. Imagine I was unlynchable. Who would you vote?

Irrelevant question. Doesn't apply to this game and current situation. I would still vote for you, bluff, lying, as well as you can't be unlynchable in THIS game specifically. Now you're just averting attention with silly questions such as these. Also, does my consistency bother you enough to setup up mind games?

You reacted too calmly. Dunno what it means but it's usually a bad sign. I'll follow you. Though your inquiry of Krazy I find a little better than null.

Again, same situation as with Krazy. "Town, but I'll see how he fares." "Null, but I'll see how he fares."
So what was I supposed to do? Beg him to unvote me? His vote is half-assed and weak, why would I ever freak out about it?

@Johhog: So this is what you're doing instead of [REDACTED]?

Nice post Johhog. Tell me, how do you feel about a Lord/Isa scumteam?

Why are we considering this? Your vote is on me. Are we flip-flopping here? Your ISO never showed any signs toward this analysis.

[Krazy]

I'm wondering why you use your weak gut-based case on someone who only posted once,

instead of going along with the current game and it's current players.

Did you seriously just ask me why I didn't sheep?

Why are we considering this? Your vote is on me. Are we flip-flopping here? Your ISO never showed any signs toward this analysis.

>implying changing suspicions based on new information is "flip-flopping"
>implying you can't ask questions or consider scenarios other than where your current vote is
>implying my iso should show suspicions of a combination of players when one of those players had not actually posted yet

[Lord]

Ok guys, first, here's a life lesson. If someone says something of the effect of "More on this tomorrow", he is probably going to SLEEP. You do not have the right to argue that point. Ok, now that we got that out of the way...

Dependant on the Lordflip

This is in relation with Johhog's read of Xeras as second most scummy player (but notice how in his post he largely calls him town numerous times). Pushing a shift of wagons on me. Now, why is that? Because I'm more aggressive than Xeras, and that's bad for scum. In light of #165, I would even go a step further and say that it works also because Xeras is not suspicious of Krazy.

I think that one of them is scum, but not both.

Also in relation to his stance on Xeras. Scum ALSO don't want to lose the opportunity for setting up mislynches, be they of not so useful people or otherwise. They usually do this with some delicacy, but this...this is blatant. Blatant chaining up lynches. Because scum KNOWS who is town, and my lynch is a device to get to another player the next day, while the scumteam is left intact.

Please notice his stance on Krazy, if you will.

Hard to get a read on, but he's kinda... sketchy in some way. It's worth to note though that I'm usually suspecting the IC.

Classic distancing, directly from the book of Mafia 101. Now, for Racerman.

Johhog, I feel the same way about Xeras/Lord. One of them is scum. Pretty sure it's Xeras, though.

If this is the response of a scumpartner, it's waaaay beyond human capabilities for suboptimal play. Scum gain nothing from disagreeing with each other like this, especially when the first person is not viewed with suspicion, and his stance is considered reasonable either way. If racerman was scum, he would've either run with it, ignore it, OR vote Johhog. This is simple motive and mentality.

Lord lists Epsilon here as one of his top three candidates--yet he has not even said Epsilon's name yet before this post. Seems pretty random.

This is a blatant lie. Anyone could see that by doing a simple ISO of me.

yet uses my pressure on Stels as a reason to keep me in his top 3.

I find your pressure on Stels as unreasoned and she's currently winning that debate over you. Also, as I mentioned earlier, scum love getting rid of aggressive players. Stels doesn't have the strongest scumread on you (that's me). But when I'm gone (IF I'm gone today), you know she'll tunnel full thrusters on you (please keep this prediction in mind, everyone). I have explained my read on Epsilon and the sheer lack of number and standardness of racerman's posts didn't allow me to get a read on him. Until this page, that is.

Ok, now I'll do something that pisses you off. Isa's town, Isa's town, Isa's town, town TOOOOWN! Gonna use that against me? Good luck, scum.

Yep, I'm rather glued onto this. Johhog+Krazy, the perfect scumteam. You first saw it here. I can even bet money on this. And if this is wrong, I would even COMPEL you to blacklist me.

I hate giving Mafia lessons to people, but here's one: there is no point in buddying someone if you don't know what his reads are yet as you might disagree with them (yes, this can happen EVEN if you are scum).

WIFOM. Disagreement can lead to agreement. Buddying with different reads makes it more believable that you're not scum. Still WIFOM.

Given that I have a scum read on Krazy, this is irrelevant to the point of hilarity. Are you being serious?

Given the extreme consistency of this vote, here is a thought experiment for you. Imagine I was unlynchable. Who would you vote?

Irrelevant question. Doesn't apply to this game and current situation. I would still vote for you, bluff, lying, as well as you can't be unlynchable in THIS game specifically. Now you're just averting attention with silly questions such as these. Also, does my consistency bother you enough to setup up mind games?

This is the way I would react if I were you, but annoying nonetheless ). No, I'm not unlynchable, but there are 2 scum in this setting. You can be convinced 1 person is scum, but that doesn't go to you as everyone else being town. That's the aim of the question, and I think Epsilon got it right.

As for me calling your vote and reasoning consistent, it was sarcasm. I think you believe in your vote, but you do BECAUSE you didn't think too much about it. Getting town people off of town people (yes, this includes myself, for I have read my own role PM) is, while I won't call it non-scummy, seen it used by scum before, definitely not anti-town.

You reacted too calmly. Dunno what it means but it's usually a bad sign. I'll follow you. Though your inquiry of Krazy I find a little better than null.

Again, same situation as with Krazy. "Town, but I'll see how he fares." "Null, but I'll see how he fares."
So what was I supposed to do? Beg him to unvote me? His vote is half-assed and weak, why would I ever freak out about it?

1. At that point you didn't. But you ARE kind of starting to freak out on his, 'tis just the truth ).
2. It is normal for town to develop reads in time. And change perspective and stuff. You are the kind of person that doesn't want to be wrong, whether this wrongness comes from further evidence, second-guessing yourself, or being contradicted. And I feel for that, I really do, but it just doesn't work in Mafia ).

[Krazy]

This is a blatant lie. Anyone could see that by doing a simple ISO of me.

So you did, I'm not entirely sure how I missed that.

Yep, I'm rather glued onto this. Johhog+Krazy, the perfect scumteam. You first saw it here. I can even bet money on this. And if this is wrong, I would even COMPEL you to blacklist me.

How much money are you willing to put where your mouth is? $20? $100? More? I'll gladly take whatever amount you're willing to offer.

[Krazy]

So if I follow your current line of reasoning correctly, the reason that Xeras is "confirmed town" is because you are so certain that me and Johhog are scum? Or was there some other reason you singled out Xeras?

[Krazy]

Ok, now I'll do something that pisses you off. Isa's town, Isa's town, Isa's town, town TOOOOWN! Gonna use that against me? Good luck, scum.

Can you expand also on why you believe Isa to be town (outside of your absolute certainty that you have discovered the scumteam)?