Open 326: Pick Your Poison (Ende des Speils!)

[Amrun]

Oh boy. Everyone I try to ISO, to figure out what's going on, they just keep coming back to talking about glowball. I'm not seeing how this is helping town at all. I'm thinking of voting to lynch her because getting rid of her might help us focus tomorrow and I'm going to guess the scum, if she's not among them, want to keep her around for exactly that reason. And if she is scum we get rid of one of them, so lynching her seems like a win-win.

But okay, I'll play along and act like she's town and ask her something I don't think anyone's asked before, and see if she answers:

these reactions have helped me scumhunt immensely

I'm glad to hear that! So far, you have Maruchan and me as scum from well before the reactions were made, and you didn't change your opinion at all after all the reactions, so you still must be convinced. Therefore, if the reactions

did

help you as much as you claim, you must know who the third scum is! Please let us know in case we lynch you today and lose access to that valuable information. Thanks.

Yeah, I've got a third read, but it's not as strong as you or Maruchan and I am still unsure if you two are scumz together one flip will make all things clear. I mean the reactions have helped me scum hunt, I never said the reactions told me EXACTLY who the scum are. When I know, which I suspect by tomorrow if we lynch correctly, I will let you know unless we lynch you which as I said before is still just as suitable as Maruchan.

Okay, up until this point, I had a townread on glowball.

This post is really scummy.

There is ZERO TOWN MOTIVATION to deny giving the third scum read.

I disagree with glowball's reasoning for not giving townreads, but not giving SCUMREADS is an entirely different matter.

Saulres makes an excellent point: if this argument over you has helped your reads along, HOW and WHERE?

This is absolutely starting to sound like scum not wanting to take hard stances on anything before a round of flips so as not to incriminate themselves. (In xReckonerx NY135, MrZepher-scum used this strategy.)

glowball begging to be lynched is also reminding me of her play as hydra chkballin (scum) in Wraith's Planet of Hats large normal.

I have played with glowball as town, and she can be just as belligerent and stubborn as town. That is NOT a scumtell for her. However, even through that, I have been able to see glimmers of pro-town intent. I see none here.

VOTE: glowball

lane is still scum, fyi.

[glowball]

scum slip up on their own, he is facilitating it because he knows that people find particular answers scummy and he was hoping I'd answer that way so he could push my wagon further and look like he is scum hunting at the same time. Hindsight is 20/20 don't make me say I told you so at end game.

awww Amrun,
It's a shame you can never read me, well I will add you to the list of people I love to play with because when I finally am scumz you probably won't notice then either.

[saulres]

I was looking through her wiki (where she talks about how blacklisting is stupid, by the by->thought that was pretty amusing) and in her first scum game, at the wrap up somebody says this post. Seems like similar behaviour here.

I've argued similar behavior on her since my first scumhunting post. Nice to see I'm not the only person looking at that game.

Glowball, I don't see as how you're keeping your opinions quiet are pro-town. And I

certainly

don't see where lynching me or Maruchan proves anything to anyone except you. No one else is buying into your "saulres and Maruchan are clearly scum" arguments so it seems like you're playing the game by yourself. There's no role to that effect in this game, but even if there was, I'm finding your playstyle incredibly anti-town.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and maybe tomorrow we can focus on scumhunting instead of glowballfighting.

UNVOTE: Maruchan
PEDIT: I had a change of vote here to move it to glowball, but I've lost track of the vote and don't want to hammer without giving her a chance to claim. So let it be known here that I'm going to vote for her as soon as I can determine if it would be hammer vote or not.

@Mod: Votecount please

[Maruchan]

lol glowball. I liek that last sentence.


And @ everyone asking me for a case, ok I will write one up in the morning.

[saulres]

don't want to hammer without giving her a chance to claim

Ooh, I just realized: Claiming in this game really means nothing, does it? Because since the mafia know what two roles they gave, and which one they didn't, any mafia could PR claim the one they didn't assign and we'd have no way to know. So any claim before we have real reads on the PRs wouldn't mean anything, would it.

Still, I'll be polite and wait for the requested votecount before voting for her.

[Amrun]

scum slip up on their own, he is facilitating it because he knows that people find particular answers scummy and he was hoping I'd answer that way so he could push my wagon further and look like he is scum hunting at the same time. Hindsight is 20/20 don't make me say I told you so at end game.

awww Amrun,
It's a shame you can never read me, well I will add you to the list of people I love to play with because when I finally am scumz you probably won't notice then either.

I've played with you as scum and town and I read you correctly as both alignments. I've never once read you incorrectly, in fact.

In this particular game, I am not all that confident in my current read. My gut still says town with you, but my head cannot justify the post I quoted. It really was terribly anti-town - and Occam's Razor says most things that are anti-town are scum.

If you're NOT scum, you should be doing a lot more to show that.

[Maruchan]

GLowball won't claim. Its against her morals or some shit like that.

[Amrun]

Since when?

[glowball]

No just go ahead and vote me.. I am not claiming anyway. You guys get what you get for being this way

NINJA'D
Maruchan is right.

Um I don't recall you reading me correctly at all after my fake claim in NEW YORK you did however know when I was town in Hard Boiled. Well this time I guess I've thrown you a curve ball. I am thoroughly disappointed.

[glowball]

Also, Maruchan we do not talk about ongoing games so you need to shut that down, but in response to Amrun I didn't want to claim in Hard Boiled so Maruchan is using my lack of wanting MASS CLAIMING as the same as my lack of wanting to L-1 claim. I hate them both, but sometimes I will L-1 claim because that is how the game is played. I WILL NEVER SUPPORT A MASS CLAIM DAY ONE IN A GAME

[Amrun]

glowball, I was totally all over your shit after your claim in New York. I suspected you before that, too.

Wait, was Maruchan in hard boiled? >.> I don't remember him.


IDK guys I just re-read glowball and I change my mind.

Unvote; Vote: Lane

That post I quoted is still scummy, but glowball is not scum. Sticking with my gut on this one.

Seriously, though, glowball, you should at least explain your scumreads.

[Maruchan]

@glowball, I wasn't going to mention any ongoing games.

And you've stated you dislike claiming period although sometimes you will. I just figured this time you wouldn't. I was prepared to be wrong, but I wasn't, and so I feel my read was correct. ^_^

[Supreme Overlord]

UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT

mothrax (4): RoboThor, Hoppster, Maruchan, MrTrow
Maruchan (2): lane0168, glowball
glowball (3): thunderwielder, Supreme Overlord, Auckmid
lane (1): Amrun

Not Voting (2): mothrax, saulres

It's 7 to lynch, so mothrax is at L-3 and glowball's at L-4.

Claiming in this game really means nothing, does it? Because since the mafia know what two roles they gave, and which one they didn't, any mafia could PR claim the one they didn't assign and we'd have no way to know. So any claim before we have real reads on the PRs wouldn't mean anything, would it.

Hmm. I think it's still worth leaving a claimed PR alive, at least for another day. That way night actions (real or faked investigations; lack of kills) can give more info on whether a claim should be believed. Like if a roleblocker claims, then later on the cop says they were roleblocked; that proves the RBs role. Same if a doctor protects someone who dies; they know there's a roleblocker out there, so if they claim, they know it's the truth.

Of course, if the L-1ee claims VT, the hammer gets dropped.

That post I quoted is still scummy, but glowball is not scum. Sticking with my gut on this one.

Do you think it will be helpful to leave glowball alive? Because scummy post + useless player; why not lynch them? I appreciate you think lane is scummy; but that wagon doesn't exist and I think glowball's flip would be helpful in determining lane's alignment (why the defence, etc.). Would you be willing to vote glowball closer to deadline?

[saulres]

Well well well.

Amrum votes glowball, and after I indicate that I'm going to vote her, he switches.

I point again to my first scumhunting post, where I make the case that glowball, Maruchan, and Amrun are the three mafia, and there was bussing.

And now this.

I'm getting more confident in my scumhunting abilities all the time!

PEDIT: Thanks for the votecount, Overlord. That, combined with Amrum dropping, means I don't have to worry about hammering.

VOTE: glowball

[glowball]

glowball, I was totally all over your shit after your claim in New York. I suspected you before that, too.

Wait, was Maruchan in hard boiled? >.> I don't remember him.


IDK guys I just re-read glowball and I change my mind.

Unvote; Vote: Lane

That post I quoted is still scummy, but glowball is not scum. Sticking with my gut on this one.

Seriously, though, glowball, you should at least explain your scumreads.

Um no and NO Maruchan was not in hard boiled I don't know how you got that.

UGH. I love your Lane vote, it definitely reassures me of my read on you and I agree, but I really want Maruchan or Saulres to flip. Hell I'll probably be more cooperative in the next day phase.

I EXPLAINED MY SCUM READS.... well I have explained why I am voting Maruchan, why do you need a case on someone I am not voting right now? Because I don't mind their lynch? I think it is obvious if you go to the VERY beginning of the game to see why I find Saulres scummy...

In other news, my flip will provide a great deal of information...

[glowball]

Well well well.

Amrum votes glowball, and after I indicate that I'm going to vote her, he switches.

I point again to my first scumhunting post, where I make the case that glowball, Maruchan, and Amrun are the three mafia, and there was bussing.

And now this.

I'm getting more confident in my scumhunting abilities all the time!

PEDIT: Thanks for the votecount, Overlord. That, combined with Amrum dropping, means I don't have to worry about hammering.

VOTE: glowball

Townies shouldn't be too worried about hammering especially since you yourself said there is no reason why I would need to claim because either way I could lie....

[Amrun]

Do you think it will be helpful to leave glowball alive? Because scummy post + useless player; why not lynch them? I appreciate you think lane is scummy; but that wagon doesn't exist and I think glowball's flip would be helpful in determining lane's alignment (why the defence, etc.). Would you be willing to vote glowball closer to deadline?

glowball isn't useless. She is emotional, and in this state, not very helpful, but when she calms down and gets to business it will be different. Either way, I do not lynch town players on purpose (except in extreme cases, like DeityKabuto).

I would be willing to vote glowball if it was a viable wagon at deadline in order to achieve a lynch. It depends on what the vote count looks like, but I would certainly rather see a glowball lynch than a no lynch.

p-edit: Saulres, everyone has to start somewhere, but your scumteam case is seriously terrible, and you need to watch yourself. You're building castles on sand.

p-edit2: I'm not really concerned with a saulres case. But I am really concerned that you won't state your third scumread, however tenuous.

[glowball]

I STATE MY READS! Goodness you guys just don't read between the lines... it is rather obvious, I just don't feel the need to come outright with it.

Amrun knows me so well

also, in other news stop stalking me into game sign ups!!!!!!!!!

[Supreme Overlord]

I point again to my first scumhunting post, where I make the case that glowball, Maruchan, and Amrun are the three mafia, and there was bussing.

It will be interesting to see if/how Maruchan votes glowball; he's been saying she's scummy, but hasn't taken any action about it.

Although if I had to guess now, I'd pick that glowball and lane were scum, and Amrun was town. Not sure about Maruchan. What both Amrun and Maruchan do with their vote before deadline should be illuminating.

She is emotional, and in this state, not very helpful, but when she calms down and gets to business it will be different.

Forgive me if I'm not convinced by:

Hell I'll probably be more cooperative in the next day phase.

Amrun, can you talk me through your thought processes behind switching to glowball and back to lane again?

Goodness you guys just don't read between the lines...

Isn't this why you're so upset at thunder?

it is rather obvious, I just don't feel the need to come outright with it.

If it's so obvious, why not just come out and say it?
Glowball, do you deny that by not explicitly stating your reads, you're leaving yourself the option of backing out of whatever people read 'between the lines' because you didn't say those exact words?

[Amrun]

Glowball: I know why you think saulres is scummy, therefore I don't care about that. A case would be nice but not totally necessary.

Still not sure about your third person. That's a different ballgame.

p-edit:

I've been pretty transparent on my thoughts on glowball. I recognize that some of her actions can reasonably be interpreted as anti-town, but I could see her intentions and her emotions getting in the way, all up until the post I pointed out and am still pressing glowball about. I switched simply to show I was serious about finding that post scummy and because my lane vote is lonely, but I re-read glowball's ISO and remembered how pro-town her early game was (which is explicitly detailed in my catch-up post). glowball is town in spite of her current stubborness.

[Maruchan]

I STATE MY READS! Goodness you guys just don't read between the lines... it is rather obvious, I just don't feel the need to come outright with it.

Amrun knows me so well

also, in other news stop stalking me into game sign ups!!!!!!!!!

I assume its lane.

[glowball]

There is a difference from see me post something like " I enjoy your vote on player X" and you assuming that I have a similar read and me saying "town write walls and scum write walls" and Thunder assuming that I said it was a scum tell....

I don't feel the need to say it and yes I deny that I am setting myself to back out of a read because anyone could quote several posts REASONABLY and tie me to people. HELL I have basically super glued myself to Maruchan and Saulres' flips

[Maruchan]

I point again to my first scumhunting post, where I make the case that glowball, Maruchan, and Amrun are the three mafia, and there was bussing.

It will be interesting to see if/how Maruchan votes glowball; he's been saying she's scummy, but hasn't taken any action about it.

She was 1 notch higher on my scum list than NS, and NS's wagon is currently bigger. If I feel NS has less chance of getting lynched today than her, she will get my vote. Just like if saulres gets closer to getting voted he will get my vote.

It all depends on which of my scum-reads is closer to lynch.

[Amrun]

GLOWBALL IF IT'S LANE PLEEEEEEASE JOIN ME ON THIS WAGON

[glowball]

UGH. I love your Lane vote, it definitely reassures me of my read on you and I agree, but I really want Maruchan or Saulres to flip. Hell I'll probably be more cooperative in the next day phase.

.