Newbie 1151 ÔÇô Game Over

[Epsilon_Andrew]

oh true

[Xeras]

So why would the mafia kill of lynchbait?

Derp. To make it look like the mafia is newbscum.

Does this have anything to do with the vote that follows it?

If someone were to make a kill to make it look like newbscum, the person that it would benefit the most is the IC.
Though, this is all wine.

And go ahead at put me at l-1 if you really want to. Voting myself would be playing against my wincon.

[Xeras]

Xeras what I don't understand is, if you recognize that the behavior when you see it in others is scummy, why did you do it this game?

Also, please answer my question in #256.

What is worse. Doing something that others may see as scummy, or completely lying?
I waited a while hoping someone would unvote, but that never happened. -_-

[Krazy]

What is worse. Doing something that others may see as scummy, or completely lying?

I think we would have forgiven you for "lying" about being a compulsive hammerer with much greater ease then we will forgive you throwing out a completely terrible hammer.

Here's the problem Xeras. If we do not lynch correctly today, we're about to go into lylo. Do you know what that means? That means if two scum vote someone, and you followed suit, you would cost the town the game. At this point, if we lynch wrong today, you're like a third mafia member. Even as town, you've demonstrated yourself to be pretty much completely unreliable.

Just for kicks though, let me completely refute your case on me.

There's absolutely no reason to think that Johhog was "lynch bait." The only person that saw him as scum was Meransiel, and let's face it, his case was thinner than a pencil. With your hammer, the chance that Johhog was getting lynched today was near 0. Moreover, if he was investigated by the cop who turned up a guilty, then that would be one player who would absolutely want to avoid letting him get lynched.

However there was just enough suspicion on him with Meransiel's "betting" with his dying breath that he was scum to guarantee two things: Johhog would not be protected by a doctor, and there was a decent chance Johhog would be investigated by a cop. This made him an incredibly appealing candidate for a nightkill: not only was he a "safe" kill (unlikely to be doc saved), killing him might cost the cop a night's investigation, which could be the difference in the game.

In other words, killing Johhog was quite mundane, standard scum play, and pretty much any SE or replacement would see that almost immediately. It does not in any way shape or form suggest an IC trying to create a sense of "newbscum" or frame you. That you're trying to say the nightkill implicates me only tells me one of two things: either you're so far up a tunnel your opinion is to be dismissed, or you're actively malicious and desperately clinging at straws to avoid being lynched as scum. Which is it?

[Stels]

Are you saying you didn't badhammer/scumhammer, Xeras?

Are you saying that there is way to be neither a badhammer, nor a scumhammer in a mislynch?

IIRC or something along those lines, no one asked to hammer Lord yet, therefore you are at fault here.

Usually, it is better to brainstorm about scumteam possibilities first; votes should be reserved for when you are more certain in something.

Negative. Trying to guess what the scum teams and D1, especially 10 pages into the day is definitely not a good and definitely not the time to talk about it. If your reads change constantly, then what's the purpose of discussing these scum teams if one or the other or both people that you believe to be scum are constantly switching? D1 we have no information and you already want to talk about scum teams?
When you're more certain is when you'll vote? Were you certain with my "intro" post? So you are trying to keep face. Why are you trying to be careful then?

Why did you spend so much of this last post talking to a dead player? It's like an excuse to make it appear like you're posting a lot when in fact you're saying very little to players who are actually alive.

Oh yeah, sorry for coming in only at the start'ish of D2. My bad. I responded to some points made towards me and what went on that was significant. I wasn't there, nor was I part of what happened in my leave. I couldn't do anything now could I? So you don't approve of me tunneling you? OMGUS? ;_; Boohoo

You think I would have kept a vote on an uncontested cop claim on day 1? It is possible, but improbable.

Ho?~
I've seen the same situation though that you just described though.
Want to play a "what if?" game?
What if I was at L-1 D1 in this game and claimed cop. With all of my posts that I may have posted and in the same manner as I am posting now, would you still keep your vote on me?

What is worse. Doing something that others may see as scummy, or completely lying?

I think we would have forgiven you for "lying" about being a compulsive hammerer with much greater ease then we will forgive you throwing out a completely terrible hammer.

Here's the problem Xeras. If we do not lynch correctly today, we're about to go into lylo. Do you know what that means? That means if two scum vote someone, and you followed suit, you would cost the town the game. At this point, if we lynch wrong today, you're like a third mafia member. Even as town, you've demonstrated yourself to be pretty much completely unreliable.

Just for kicks though, let me completely refute your case on me.

There's absolutely no reason to think that Johhog was "lynch bait." The only person that saw him as scum was Meransiel, and let's face it, his case was thinner than a pencil. With your hammer, the chance that Johhog was getting lynched today was near 0. Moreover, if he was investigated by the cop who turned up a guilty, then that would be one player who would absolutely want to avoid letting him get lynched.

However there was just enough suspicion on him with Meransiel's "betting" with his dying breath that he was scum to guarantee two things: Johhog would not be protected by a doctor, and there was a decent chance Johhog would be investigated by a cop. This made him an incredibly appealing candidate for a nightkill: not only was he a "safe" kill (unlikely to be doc saved), killing him might cost the cop a night's investigation, which could be the difference in the game.

In other words, killing Johhog was quite mundane, standard scum play, and pretty much any SE or replacement would see that almost immediately. It does not in any way shape or form suggest an IC trying to create a sense of "newbscum" or frame you. That you're trying to say the nightkill implicates me only tells me one of two things: either you're so far up a tunnel your opinion is to be dismissed, or you're actively malicious and desperately clinging at straws to avoid being lynched as scum. Which is it?

Think of the children! ;_;

type of post.

Btw, Krazy seems to adore talking about Johhog so much. Do you guys share a history of playing together?

[Xeras]

Stels-

What does the timing have to do with a badhammer. I was stating that a mislynch must either be a badhammer, or a scumhammer. Not that I hammered because someone told me to.

[racerman13]

No, a mislynch doesn't have to be a badhammer or a scumhammer. Someone could mislynch the scummiest player with good reason (not "I'M A COMPULSIVE H4MM4R, S0RRIE GUYS!!!1!11!1!!1!1!!") and with the end of discussion for that day. We were still discussing, we had TONS of time left.

[Xeras]

No, a mislynch doesn't have to be a badhammer or a scumhammer. Someone could mislynch the scummiest player with good reason (not "I'M A COMPULSIVE H4MM4R, S0RRIE GUYS!!!1!11!1!!1!1!!") and with the end of discussion for that day. We were still discussing, we had TONS of time left.

You are leaning slightly more town with me now.

[racerman13]

Really? I still think you're scum. Telling me that I'm more town in your eyes doesn't change that.

[Krazy]

Can anyone explain to me how Stels isn't lynched yet? I know Xeras is scummy and distracting but I don't see how anyone in this game can read anything Stels writes and not immediately lynch it.

[Epsilon_Andrew]

Krazy, stels post most of the time just make me hate him, not enought to waste a vote on, with a chance that he might be town. Stels is my third guess for a possible mafia member. First being xeras, second racer. I would vote for xeras, but what if he is town and he truly is just BaM?

[Krazy]

Epsilon, of your top three, who do you have an easier time seeing as partners with each other?

[Epsilon_Andrew]

Out of Xeras, racer, or Stels, I would say the partnership would be Xeras and Racer.

[racerman13]

You think? I'm tunneling him like a BADASS.

[Krazy]

Epsilon,

can you expand on why you think racerman would bus Xeras today if they were a scum team? Also, are you leaning town on the other players in the game, or do you simply see the three you mentioned as more scummy?

Racerman,

what do you think of Stels? And who do you think is the most likely to be Xeras's partner, if he is scum?

Xeras,

no reply to 278? Also, can you refresh me on why you find me scummy, and scummier, for that matter, than racerman and Isa, who yesterday you seemed to indicate were more suspicious than me. When exactly did I become your top candidate?

Ranmaru,

when you get back, I have a few questions for you:
-You expressed dissatisfaction with my Stels vote yesterday, but what is your read of Stels outside of my case on her?
-Do you believe me and Xeras are a scumteam, and if not, do you have a third candidate?

In regard to this:

Krazy, I didn't like his push on Stels for voting Lord for 'buddying'. Krazy then stated that he felt Lord's buddying to him was that of a town manner, but that wouldn't mean Stels was scum for attacking him. It would just mean he was wrong.

I disagree. It means either Stels was wrong, or Stels was manufacturing a reason to join a growing wagon. After all, a scum player's entire game is based around characterizing town-tells as scum-tells. You can assert that Stels in this instance was simply wrong, but if so, why do you feel that way?

[Krazy]

Trying to guess what the scum teams and D1, especially 10 pages into the day is definitely not a good and definitely not the time to talk about it.

Anyone reading this post should from Stels should ask themselves:
-When according to Stels would be the right time to try to guess what the scum teams are?
-How is discouraging players from speculating on the scum team pro-town? That is, why, as town, would Stels, assert this?
-Can you think of a reason that, as scum, Stels would assert this?

If your reads change constantly, then what's the purpose of discussing these scum teams if one or the other or both people that you believe to be scum are constantly switching?

-

Everyone,

does this question strike you as a post from someone who is scum-hunting?

Are you saying you didn't badhammer/scumhammer, Xeras?

Are you saying that there is way to be neither a badhammer, nor a scumhammer in a mislynch?

IIRC or something along those lines, no one asked to hammer Lord yet, therefore you are at fault here.

What if I was at L-1 D1 in this game and claimed cop. With all of my posts that I may have posted and in the same manner as I am posting now, would you still keep your vote on me?

-Stels blames Xeras for the hammer as a scummy move, yet simultaneously argues that even if a player claimed a PR they would be hammered anyway. Why would a town-sided player argue both of these points in the same post?

[Epsilon_Andrew]

The three I mentioned are the people I find scummy. As for everyone else, they are mostly leaning town to me. As for why racer would be bussing xeras, it could just be a way to distance them from each other.

[Uite]

• Votecount 2.2
  
  
  [
  2
  ]
  Xeras
  ~
  Isa
  ,
  racerman13
  
  [
  2
  ]
  Krazy
  ~
  Xeras
  ,
  Stels
  
  [
  1
  ]
  Stels
  ~
  Krazy
  
  
  
  Not voting:
  
  
  Epsilon_Andrew
  ,
  Ranmaru
  
  
• With
  7
  alive, it takes
  4
  to lynch
  
• Deadline for Day 2 is Sunday, 18^th of September 2011, at 14:28 CEST (UTC+2)
  
• Ranmaru
  is LA during the hurricane

[Krazy]

I voted Stels in 272.

[Epsilon_Andrew]

That's what it says. Stels has 1 vote, from krazy.

[Krazy]

Last edited by Uite on Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

That is indeed what it says

now

.

[racerman13]

I think stels is annoying, and a possible scum. If Xeras is town, then he is scum. If Xeras is scum, then stels is town. I don't see them as partners.

I don't really see a plausible buddy for Xeras as of now.

[Stels]

@Krazy: You clearly don't see my gender being set to male, do you?

Can anyone explain to me how Stels isn't lynched yet? I know Xeras is scummy and distracting but I don't see how anyone in this game can read anything Stels writes and not immediately lynch it.

Boohooohooo.

-When according to Stels would be the right time to try to guess what the scum teams are?
-How is discouraging players from speculating on the scum team pro-town? That is, why, as town, would Stels, assert this?
-Can you think of a reason that, as scum, Stels would assert this?

-Not D1, that's for sure.
-It's just outright stupidity to discuss scum teams during D1. You have no info whatsoever to even remotely judge the scum teams, as well as changing your reads throughout the entire game. Later on in the game it's encouraged, when we are at least past D2 or caught scum D1.
-Whut?
Sorry, I thought you would know better, but I guess you don't =/

@

-Everyone, does this question strike you as a post from someone who is scum-hunting?

Again, my point stands. D1 it's just stupid to do.

-Stels blames Xeras for the hammer as a scummy move, yet simultaneously argues that even if a player claimed a PR they would be hammered anyway. Why would a town-sided player argue both of these points in the same post?

Discussion was going on. A replacement was requested. The game was still going on. Your vote would still persist on Lord/Replacement even if there was a claim, but the Day wouldn't have ended that early if there was no hammer. We are given 3 weeks per Day, of that, we barely managed to get past the 1 week mark, hammer yes, early no.

[Stels]

@racerman13: Awww, from hate to annoying. That's quite a downgrade.

[racerman13]

I...never said I hated you.