Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[Banshee]

How would massclaim benefit the town, in your view? Do you intend to fullclaim if a massclaim is approved?

[Rainbowdash]

How would massclaim benefit the town, in your view? Do you intend to fullclaim if a massclaim is approved?

No of course I wouldn't fullclaim if we were massclaiming she says with dripping sarcasam. Massclaim means everypony, not everypony but me.

I am thinking massclaim because its rare to have a game with more than four town PRs if that many, and my role is far more useful with that knowledge. Besides, it can help us figuring out the legitimacy of the EB claim.

[Llamarble]

Banshee/WV/Imp contains at least one scum and I would not be at all surprised by 2.
Pretty sure there's nobody else I'd be interested in lynching today.

Not seeing benefits of massclaim unless you think some kind of awesome strategy can be devised.

I feel like EB claim is pretty legit already.

[Banshee]

Also, I'm in a short list of four possible scum in which EB does not appear. I'm also the only possible partner for Llamarble according to your list. My support of the VoidedMafia wagon is treated as bussing for no good reason that I can see while other people are regarded as town for the same basic behaviour. Logically you OUGHT to be voting me, Rainbowdash, if you believe what you're saying, since I'm the ONLY person on your list who could be paired with all of the others on your list. I would be the logical choice. So why Implosion?

This makes me think that if Rainbowdash is scum, Llamarble is the other scum.

@EvilBullet: Thoughts on why scum shot in the unknown pool rather than take out either you or Rainbowdash?

[Rainbowdash]

Banshee/WV/Imp contains at least one scum and I would not be at all surprised by 2.
Pretty sure there's nobody else I'd be interested in lynching today.

May be true. Tack yourself and EB in there and I would be shocked if its false.

Not seeing benefits of massclaim unless you think some kind of awesome strategy can be devised.

I feel like EB claim is pretty legit already.

I think it would cement EB and myself as town, maybe help in other ways. Although if there is no other scum PR I would doubt there are more roles. Just think it can really help peg down EB or myself, if anypony gets serious about lynching either of us, we are massclaiming.

@Banshee - Im not voting you because you are not my strongest scum read. Just because you work with the most ponies doesn't mean you are the best pick. Imposion is really bad when you connect him to VM. WV doesn't look too bad, but I just really have felt bad about that pony the entire game. Didn't we go over this exact same thing earlier this game?

Implosion looks like scum, and works with just about everypony. He technically works with llama even, but not too well. Like I said though, all I need to do is get scum lynched today and we are going to start having cleared ponies through EB.

[Llamarble]

Scum had daytalk D1. I feel like if I do a full reread that knowledge will yield a scumbag, but OH GAWD 49 PAGES.

[Banshee]

@Rainbowdash:

If EB is scum, then your plan cannot work. Your plan completely depends on EB being town, but you claim not to know if he's town or not. He could very easily be scum, according to you.

Which is it? Because you seem VERY confused today about everything. For someone who's had definite views all through the last very long day, suddenly you believe both that EB is town enough to confirm people and scum enough to be suspicious... Implosion was your right hand man all day yesterday but today he's the most likely scum. You pushed VoidedMafia's lynch rather halfheartedly yourself but you consider it bussing when others do it to pretty much the same degree.

I want some input from Hiphop and Neruz on this. They haven't posted today yet.

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbowdash:

If EB is scum, then your plan cannot work. Your plan completely depends on EB being town, but you claim not to know if he's town or not. He could very easily be scum, according to you.

Actually massclaim can easily help ID him as town or scum, which is part of the reason I like a massclaim.

Which is it? Because you seem VERY confused today about everything. For someone who's had definite views all through the last very long day, suddenly you believe both that EB is town enough to confirm people and scum enough to be suspicious... Implosion was your right hand man all day yesterday but today he's the most likely scum. You pushed VoidedMafia's lynch rather halfheartedly yourself but you consider it bussing when others do it to pretty much the same degree.

I tend to be best in the early game, after that my play goes down a little.

How is EB town enough to confirm others though? Regardless of what comes from massclaim it can help with figuring out if EB is town or not. No other claims, he is town for sure. If there are more, then maybe but it can actually help us figure out what he is for sure.

Implosion looked town yesterday to me, im not denying that. I do think that he is scum though today when you look at the interactions between him and VM. He passes VM off as townish early and continues to ignore him for the rest of the day. VM comments on imposion a couple times, but also ignores him for the most part.

You are going to have to explain how I "halfheartedly" pushed VM though.

[Banshee]

Like I said though, all I need to do is get scum lynched today and we are going to start having cleared ponies through EB.

This is the plan to which I referred.
Not the massclaim plan, which I do not support.

This particular quoted comment is not made by someone who thinks EB is possibly scum.
Therefore you do not think EB is

possibly

scum.
Either you know he is, and you're scum with him, or you know he's town because you're scum, or you know he's town for some other reason.

You pushed a VM lynch, then left it in post #653. Finally coming back to it with a double vote gambit and then:

I need to decide a few things before hammering here. Vanilla was the only claim from him I would have believed at all given the cult talk, so much for baiting him into fakeclaiming doctor.

Ellibereth is still town, I feel selfless right now, not to mention lost. No clue why you ponies trust Beck as much as you do. Sleuth is town if one of VM and deselby are scum. EB is probably town at this point, actually moreso if VM is town for cool reasons. Implosion is lower on the list then before, but leans town. Thomith is still Pinkie Hooves.

Yeah.

I will let this go another day or so but intention to hammer declared. I ask no pony else to actually hammer because I still want to mull over bringing out my info and other secrets, although I doubt that I need to after that claim.

That seems pretty wishywashy to me. Llamarble actually even suggested wagoning EB during this period of time, too.

[Rainbowdash]

Like I said though, all I need to do is get scum lynched today and we are going to start having cleared ponies through EB.

This is the plan to which I referred.
Not the massclaim plan, which I do not support.

This particular quoted comment is not made by someone who thinks EB is possibly scum.
Therefore you do not think EB is

possibly

scum.
Either you know he is, and you're scum with him, or you know he's town because you're scum, or you know he's town for some other reason.

Or by including "lynch scum today" means that anypony EB targets could not have submitted a NK, meaning that as town or scum he has to clear somepony every night.

That seems pretty wishywashy to me. Llamarble actually even suggested wagoning EB during this period of time, too.

Well I disagree.

[Banshee]

Or by including "lynch scum today" means that anypony EB targets could not have submitted a NK, meaning that as town or scum he has to clear somepony every night.

Okay. As scum, EB could claim to target any one he chooses. Let's say he says he targets you and puts in a NK on me. You're cleared, except not really. You could be scum, or you could be town. If EB is scum NOTHING he says is guaranteed true. You're assuming his role is truthful even if his alignment is not known... what makes you believe that to be the case?

Anyway, I've laid out my case and I think it's a good one. I'm looking for someone NOT Rainbowdash to critique it and explain to me where my logic has failed or what I may have gotten wrong along the way.

[Rainbowdash]

Or by including "lynch scum today" means that anypony EB targets could not have submitted a NK, meaning that as town or scum he has to clear somepony every night.

Okay. As scum, EB could claim to target any one he chooses. Let's say he says he targets you and puts in a NK on me. You're cleared, except not really. You could be scum, or you could be town. If EB is scum NOTHING he says is guaranteed true. You're assuming his role is truthful even if his alignment is not known... what makes you believe that to be the case?

Yeah but he has to keep clearing, and/or killing, scum suspects. So I think he gets caught in the end with a scum lynch today.

[Evil Bullet]

@EvilBullet: Thoughts on why scum shot in the unknown pool rather than take out either you or Rainbowdash?

Wifom?

[implosion]

@EvilBullet: Thoughts on why scum shot in the unknown pool rather than take out either you or Rainbowdash?

Wifom?

[Rainbowdash]

It may really be worth it to massclaim.

We have a dead PR, me, and two claimed VT. Thats not too much left.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah I want to massclaim. Half the game is already claimed, my role is better if I know what is out there, and it should be able to clear up EB for sure if he is town.

[hiphop]

I claim Pr, so I will say what it is last. Got to go and read the last 2 pages.

[hiphop]

I support the fact that Rainbow should not claim her role, if she hasn't already.

[Llamarble]

Alright.
I'm Vanilla.
I expect a good reason for this.

[Rainbowdash]

Well!

That settles the "Do we massclaim" question.

Also I guess Llama starts, popcorn, end with hiphop/me

[Banshee]

I do not support a massclaim.

I do not see a reason to give the scum more info than they already have.
Additionally, Rainbowdash doesn't seem sure of much except that she wants more information on town power roles.
This doesn't make me happy.

Before people start claiming (too late for Hiphop, I note) then I think we should at least see the level of support for this plan. I can see readily why Rainbowdash would support this, since if more power roles appeared at least it would make SOME sense as to why she and EB were left alive.

If both of them were town, there's nothing preventing scum from killing one and assuming that the other would be lynched in the morning. If one or more of them is scum, however, then leaving them both alive makes perfect sense in order to protect the scum hiding in the pool of two. If we out further power roles then they can continue justifying not killing one or both of them possibly for the entire duration of the game.

We should NOT be making the scum's job easier regardless of what Rainbowdash thinks about it.

[hiphop]

Llama, to help you out, I believe it was I who brought up day talk first. Where I commented to Beck about his comment on Voided being coached. Which I thought he could only refer to day talk, since I didn't see how Voided could be coached without town not knowing about it. I have never heard of an Encryptor before, and didn't know what it was until I looked it up on wiki. I also have never heard of any mini having day talk, though on another forum, that I used to play, scum always had day talk. But a role that actually allows it, instead of scum outright having it, is just weird. I know that incriminates me, but so be it.

Rainbow don't claim. Not today at least.

[Banshee]

No. I don't agree and I won't participate. Lynch me if you want to over it. Just lynch Rainbowdash for it later. She and EB are the only ponies in town who benefit, and then only if they are scum.

Hiphop, if you don't support Rainbowdash claiming, why did you claim?

[hiphop]

As far as I am concerned Rainbow can say she is a Pr, and leave it at that. My role isn't near as powerful as Rainbows. The last time I was in a game with Rainbow's role, that role was lynched. It is best if scum do not know what it is.

[Banshee]

You do understand that if Rainbowdash is scum or if EB is scum, you've just given them another target to hit that excuses why they are allowed to remain alive?

You get that, right? If EITHER of them is scum, now you're the next kill and they can say, oh, look, that's why we didn't get killed. You just gave additional cover to possible, even probable scum.

I don't see a good reason to do that. Can you explain why it's a good idea?