Mafia 137 - Neruzian Era Mafia SERIAL KILLER WIN!

chkflip · Post Post #1250 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:45 am

UNVOTE: David Xanatos
VOTE: edmund.angles

Aforementioned reasons and mastin's case. I'd say more but mastin covered (more or less) every edmund post worth covering.

Zdenek · Post Post #1251 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:15 am

I'm having a pretty hard time of seeing Mastin as town in this game.

chkflip · Post Post #1252 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:22 am

Are you seeing edmund as town?

CSL · Post Post #1253 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:29 am

Unvote; Vote: edmund

It's time for you to go.

If a vig is present, SHOOT MASTIN. PLEASE.

edmund.angles · Post Post #1254 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:27 am

sorgster wrote:
edmund.angles wrote:I can go with sorgster - he seems to protective of his own hide.

VOTE: sorgster

@zMuff: Last time you mentioned pappum's before you voted him you said he wasn't scum. Just tell me what has changed you mind or why you think you were wrong here:

zMuff wrote:Actually, pappums isn't scum. No way toonfighter jumped on that wagon to bus him. That was a counterwagon.

Look at my other games, I always do that lol.

Give me an example, then.

mastin's case is based on me disagreeing with him on reads and on me finding him scummy, except maybe this:

mastin2 wrote:I could re-state it, and then add to it his subsequent play, which didn't get better, but in fact only got worse. Especially him taking full advantage of him being called confirmed town--he milked that, and in hindsight, it's really effing obvious.

Which is just wrong, I never 'milked' mastin calling me confirmed town.
And this,

mastin2 wrote:-GreyICE discrediting. (DEFINITELY not pro-town.)

Also wrong, I asked GI to say why he was conf-town in stead of just stating it.

mastin is scummy:
mastin: EA is conf-scum.
EA: I had my vote stolen.
GI: EA is probably not scum.
HL: I'm gonna sheep anything GI does
mastin: No, no, no, indeed EA is not scum, he is completely confirmed town.

CSL · Post Post #1255 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:31 am

Hence why if you flip town, either mastin is eating a bullet, or he's eating rope tomorrow.

Well, he needs to eat a bullet anyways, so etc.

GreyICE · Post Post #1256 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:38 am

GreyICE wrote:I'm lynching from Mastin's town list today. It's the best way to hit scum.

QFT on day 3

GreyICE · Post Post #1257 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:46 am

vote:sorgster

more.

Mastin must be right about something because if he was actually wrong about everything he'd be useful for finding scum.

chkflip · Post Post #1258 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:54 am

I fully support ^this, especially given that it's Tomie's replacement (we should all remember my stance on Tomie, lol). I'd like to hear more from edmund about mastin's case before I even think about switching my vote again, though.

Zdenek · Post Post #1259 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:04 am

chkflip wrote:Are you seeing edmund as town?

Yes. I don't think he was bussing TF.

sorgster · Post Post #1260 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:25 am

edmund.angles wrote:
sorgster wrote:
edmund.angles wrote:I can go with sorgster - he seems to protective of his own hide.

VOTE: sorgster

None of my games have finished yet, but look at page two of ny139:underground mafia. I overreacted to a rvs apparently. None of my games have ended. I have been lynched in one of them because of tunnelling and then changing my attitude in day two. I was vt then. I'm great at being suspicious. Am that in every single game of mine.

CSL · Post Post #1261 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:23 am

Don't talk about ongoing games.

sorgster · Post Post #1262 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:34 pm

sorry about that

warriormode · Post Post #1263 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:17 pm

@mastin- have malpascp and Tomie played in games with you before?

mastin2 · Post Post #1264 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:41 pm

Tomie, yes. Mal, no.

I suppose I'll begin working on a full Edmund/Zdenek/David Xanatos case, but honestly, I kinda lack the motivation--Edmund's getting votes without me pushing, Zdenek's losing supporters every time he posts, and David's slipping into people's scum suspects slowly as well. Expect severe procrastination to follow.

Neruz · Post Post #1265 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:36 pm

^*Meow*

edmund.angles (

5

) -

vezokpiraka, sorgster, CSL, mastin2, chkflip

sorgster ( 2 ) -

GreyICE, edmund.angles

zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -

Zdenek

mastin2 ( 1 ) -

David Xanatos

pappums rat ( 1 ) -

zMuffinMan

Zdenek ( 1 ) -

warriormode

8 votes to lynch

Deadline in (expired on 2011-09-14 08:00:00)

warriormode · Post Post #1266 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:46 pm

So if malpascp has never played with you before, how would he know this:

mastin2 wrote:
Warrior:
Same reason Maxous was. And same reason Sorgster/Tomie is. On my D1 wagon.

You're claiming that it's something they wouldn't do for fear of being analysed by you, right?

Slowly explain the logic here (without referring to psychology), because you're convinced there can't be any more scum on that early wagon, and in my books, that makes it a really, really good place for scum to be.
Yes, my wagon was a good place for scum to be.

Two scum, in fact.

Not more than that. It's common effing sense to not put too many cards on the table, create a strong link between players. If half the wagon on me was scum, then it'd create a strong link between the players, a link that others (especially me, the wagoned, who is very fond of VCA) would scrutinize. It'd be Mugging The Monster, so to speak. It'd be attacking the one guy you never want to attack, since he diverts attention to you and begins to read you. Two scum? Sure, that's proven. Three scum? When they'd already risked as much as they had? When it was very probable that the wagon would be analyzed and people would form the conclusion that it was scum-driven?

Heck no.

My point is: you say that scum would not to fuck with you because you'll give them hell.
which makes sense and I agree with you that not too many scum would wagon you.

but people who don't know you, would not know your game (obviously).
So since malpascp shouldn't know you, couldn't he be an exception to your 2 scum min, and therefore

not

confirmed town?

mastin2 · Post Post #1267 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:28 pm

Theoretically, yes, Warrior. In practice, no.

Spoiler: All You Need To Know About Mastin This Game

This is a tl;dr of me. (Sort of a summary of my ISO, you could say.) It helps to see how my thoughts progressed throughout the days to understand my reads, how they changed, and how I interacted. For you, it's to get a better idea of my alignment.
For me, it's because if I can track down my own though progression, I can better understand what I got right and wrong, how I got it right/wrong, and fix it by re-reading and giving the correct, more-informed conclusion.

Yes, this is part of my case, but is mainly IioA. Like VCA*, it's something which has no immediate benefit in posting, but when you do post it, gives extremely valuable insight to analyze. So, "Information, with delayed analysis".

*Speaking of which, I should do some and use it as well.

David Xanatos · Post Post #1268 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:33 pm

Well, you're wrong about me, and since you seem to base your ICE read on Pine/me being Scum.. I look forward to your being proven conclusively wrong.

mastin2 · Post Post #1269 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:22 pm

mastin2 ( 6 ) -
Toon Fighter
, Tomie Uzumaki,
Maxous
, malpascp,
Phoebus
,
hiplop

Tomie Uzumaki ( 3 ) -
mastin2,
Empking
,
Bowser

somerandomguy ( 2 ) - PranaDevil, warriormode
zMuffinMan ( 2 ) -
somerandomguy
, edmund.angles
Hirarky ( 2 ) - paupam's rat,
GreyICE

paupam's rat ( 1 ) -
Hirarky

Bowser ( 1 ) - Uprising
Phoebus ( 1 ) -
zMuffinMan

Two scum on me. General rule of thumb is that there shouldn't be MORE than two scum on a 6P wagon. This is common effing sense. It could be on ANY player, and I'd say the same; the fact that it's on me is just bonus points.
CONCERNING: No scum on Tomie at this point? It's obviously not me or Edmund, but Bowser has been one of my strongest town-reads.
CONCERNING2: No scum in the (1) voters? Muffin's also been an old town-read. Uprising has gone back and forth, but overall has remained above the line.
PROMISING: There should be two scum in the three (2) wagons, as there are two scum in the (6) wagon. (Same number, after all.) GreyICE and SRG are confirmed town from there. Leaves Pappums, Edmund, Warrior, and Prana/Mint/Zdenek. Guess which two I have a scumread on?

mastin2 ( 5 ) -
Toon Fighter
, Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp,
Phoebus
,
hiplop

Tomie Uzumaki ( 3 ) -
mastin2,
Empking
, Bowser
somerandomguy ( 2 ) - PranaDevil, warriormode
Bowser ( 2 ) - Uprising, edmund.angles
Hirarky ( 2 ) - paupam's rat,
GreyICE

zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -
somerandomguy
paupam's rat ( 1 ) - Hirarky

Phoebus ( 1 ) -
zMuffinMan

hiplop ( 1 ) -
Maxous

Pretty much nothing changed, here, as far as PROMISE/CONCERN goes, aside from:
CONCERNING: Now it's four (1) voters, three of which are confirmed town. The fourth has always been a strong town-read.

mastin2 ( 5 ) -
Toon Fighter
, Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp,
Phoebus
,
hiplop

Tomie Uzumaki ( 4 ) -
mastin2,
Empking
,
Bowser
, Pine
hiplop ( 3 ) -
Maxous
,
Torqez
,
Hirarky

Hirarky ( 2 ) - paupam's rat,
GreyICE

paupam's rat ( 1 ) - warriormode
Bowser ( 1 ) - edmund.angles
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -
somerandomguy

Phoebus ( 1 ) -
zMuffinMan

Torqez ( 1 ) - PranaDevil

PROMISING: Oh, look. Four on Tomie, now. And guess who is the suspect, there?

PROMISING2: Five (1) voters. That should have 1-2 scum in it, no? (See also: Mastin Wagon with 5, that had two scum on it.) Warrior, Edmund, Muffin, and Prana/Mint/Zdenek. Guess who?

CONCERNING: Was hiplop's 3 voters an all-town wagon? Two fliped town, but Torqez/Hez have been one of my strongest town-reads...

Hirarky ( 1 ) - paupam's rat
paupam's rat ( 1 ) - warriormode
Bowser ( 1 ) - edmund.angles
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -
somerandomguy

Phoebus ( 1 ) -
zMuffinMan

Torqez ( 1 ) - PranaDevil
Pine ( 1 ) -
GreyICE

Removing the part that's unchanged.
PROMISING: SEVEN (1) voters? There HAS to be two scum in here by this point.

mastin2 ( 5 ) - Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp,
Phoebus
,
hiplop
, edmund.angles
Tomie Uzumaki ( 4 ) -
mastin2,
Empking
,
Bowser
, Pine
hiplop ( 3 ) -
Maxous
,
Torqez
,
Hirarky

paupam's rat ( 1 ) - warriormode
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -
somerandomguy

Phoebus ( 1 ) -
zMuffinMan

Torqez ( 1 ) - PranaDevil
edmund.angles ( 1 ) - paupam's rat
Toon Fighter ( 1 )-
GreyICE

SUPER UBER PROMISING: One scum comes off of me, and only THEN does Edmund join the wagon on me. Coincidence?
Please refer to my "three scum on a 5/6 wagon" opinion. This matches it perfectly, if Edmund is scum--not joining until his buddy left.
SEMI-PROMISING, SEMI-CONCERNING: Now there's only six (1) voters. Promise, in that there is definitely one scum in here, and Edmund's switch makes it look even more likely. Concern, in that it should be two.

mastin2 ( 4 ) - Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp,
Phoebus
, edmund.angles
Tomie Uzumaki ( 4 ) -
mastin2,
Empking
,
Bowser
, Pine
hiplop ( 4 ) -
Maxous
,
Torqez
,
Hirarky
,
Toon Fighter

Toon Fighter ( 3 )- GreyICE
, vezokpiraka,
hiplop

paupam's rat ( 1 ) - warriormode
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -
somerandomguy

Phoebus ( 1 ) -
zMuffinMan

edmund.angles ( 1 ) - paupam's rat
Bowser ( 1 ) - MintKitten

CONCERNING: Edmund and Phoebus are next to each other on me.
SEMI-CONCERNING2: Toon wagon currently looks all-town.
PROMISING: Hiplop wagon's fourth member was scum. This gives evidence suggesting the other three are town.
PROMISING2: Five (1) voters, with one of my scumreads in there. It looks good.

Tomie Uzumaki ( 5 ) -
mastin2,
Empking
,
Bowser
, Pine, chkflip

Nothing else changed as far as I can tell in this votecount.
PROMISING: Definitely one scum in here, now.

mastin2 ( 3 ) - Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp,
Phoebus

Bowser ( 3 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles,
zMuffinMan

Toon Fighter ( 2 )-
GreyICE,
hiplop

paupam's rat ( 1 ) - warriormode
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -
somerandomguy

edmund.angles ( 1 ) - paupam's rat
Hirarky ( 1 ) - vezokpiraka

PROMISING: Only one scum left on my (3) wagon STRONGLY indicates the other members present are town.
PROMISING2: There's definitely scum on the Bowser wagon, now.
CONCERNING: ...But are there really two? Mint/Zdenek and Edmund are right next to each other, on such a small wagon. :/
CONCERNING2: Four (1) voters; are they all town?

Tomie Uzumaki ( 5 ) -
mastin2,
Empking
,
Bowser
, Pine, chkflip
hiplop ( 5 ) -
Maxous
,
Torqez
,
Hirarky
,
Toon Fighter
, paupam's rat
mastin2 ( 5 ) - Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp,
Phoebus
, GreyICE
, vezokpiraka
Bowser ( 3 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles,
zMuffinMan

Toon Fighter ( 1 )-
hiplop

Maxous ( 1 ) - warriormode
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) -
somerandomguy

Nothing but promise, here. There's proven one scum on two of the five; I say it's 92% likely that the third (5) wagon also has a scum on it. And that no more than one scum is on each. (That's only about 90%, but still.)
As for the rest?
Combine the three (1) wagons into a single (3) wagon. Then, combine both the (3) wagons into a single (6) wagon. You have 1-2 scum, which is exactly what I should have.

hiplop ( 6 ) - Maxous, Torqez, Hirarky, Toon Fighter, paupam's rat, GreyICE
Tomie Uzumaki ( 5 ) - mastin2, Empking, Bowser, Pine, chkflip
mastin2 ( 4 ) - Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp, Phoebus, vezokpiraka
Bowser ( 2 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles
Toon Fighter ( 2 )- hiplop, zMuffinMan
Maxous ( 1 ) - warriormode
zMuffinMan ( 1 ) - somerandomguy

Too lazy to code, since nothing really important has changed. ICE is the only new name to Hiplop, and was taken away from me. Bowser now only has two, and Toon has two. Both (1) voters are scum, there's one scum minimum in the (2) voters; hiplop's confirmed town and Muffin's a town-read, so one of {Mint, Edmund} is GUARANTEED scum.

hiplop ( 9 ) -
Maxous
,
Torqez
,
Hirarky
,
Toon Fighter
, paupam's rat,
GreyICE
,
Bowser
, vezokpiraka,
malpascp

Tomie Uzumaki ( 4 ) -
mastin2,
Empking
, Pine, chkflip
mastin2 ( 3 ) - Tomie Uzumaki, malpascp,
Phoebus

Bowser ( 3 ) - MintKitten, edmund.angles,
Empking

zMuffinMan ( 2 ) - somerandomguy, hiplop
Toon Fighter ( 1 )- zMuffinMan
Maxous ( 1 ) - warriormode

SUPER UBER CONCERNING: Does Hiplop really only have one scum on him at L-2?!?
PROMISING: The (6) wagon comprised of two (3) wagons should have two scum.
CONCERNING2: ...Yet my reads have it as actually being three.

This is roughly half-way to the end of the day (Day1 was...quite long

), so posting.

GreyICE · Post Post #1270 (ISO) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:55 pm

I seriously will lynch the vig claim as a SK if mastin is alive tomorrow.

Can the rest of the town sign this pact too?

malpascp · Post Post #1271 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:57 am

I already played with mastin. I feel somewhat sad about you right now.

@GI: if you want mastin dead, why not try to lynch him?

GreyICE · Post Post #1272 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:00 am

'cause I don't think he's scum. I just want him to die. It's a subtle difference explained by his ISO having the word count of a novella.

malpascp · Post Post #1273 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:33 am

You want town to die. That's cool. That's cool...

HezLucky · Post Post #1274 (ISO) » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:24 am

Mastin2 wrote:mastin2 ( 6 ) - Toon Fighter, Tomie Uzumaki, Maxous, malpascp, Phoebus, hiplop
Tomie Uzumaki ( 3 ) - mastin2, Empking, Bowser
somerandomguy ( 2 ) - PranaDevil, warriormode
zMuffinMan ( 2 ) - somerandomguy, edmund.angles
Hirarky ( 2 ) - paupam's rat, GreyICE
paupam's rat ( 1 ) - Hirarky
Bowser ( 1 ) - Uprising
Phoebus ( 1 ) - zMuffinMan

I agree. Toon and Phoebus flip scum means Mastin is very likely town. That wagon is too scum-saturated
otherwise.

Mastin2 wrote:Pretty much nothing changed, here, as far as PROMISE/CONCERN goes, aside from:
CONCERNING: Now it's four (1) voters, three of which are confirmed town. The fourth has always been a strong town-read.

Yo, wtf Muffin? I don't want to have to call you scum again for this.

Mastin2 wrote:CONCERNING: Was hiplop's 3 voters an all-town wagon? Two fliped town, but Torqez/Hez have been one of my strongest town-reads...

Bro, if I was scum, I would actually be TRYING. Right now, I'm trying my SHEEP strategy.

GreyICE wrote:I seriously will lynch the vig claim as a SK if mastin is alive tomorrow.

Can the rest of the town sign this pact too?

Are you town? Nothing you've said after me wantin to sheep you has made me think you are town.