Open 326: Pick Your Poison (Ende des Speils!)

[mothrax]

The case on nobody special was mainly for "active" lurking as far as I understand. And it seems like for those that were voting him, the only thing I could have done was to come in and post wall after wall after wall. N.B. That is not now nor has it ever been my playstyle, robothor especially seems like they wouldn't have moved their vote off me regardless. (random side q: robo were you in SC's SWN3 reroll?)

So that being said: if it comes down to it, I will self hammer to prevent a deadline nolynch. (uh oh, controversial theory descision...)

Yes, Amrun, my decision to vote glowball was influenced by the size of the wagon but as I have already stated, I do find glowball scummy. Not as scummy as maruchan, but again, I would rather vote my second scumspect who was likely to be lynched than my number one who was not likely to be lynched at this late stage in the day.

More will come this evening when I get off work, if I'm not dead by then.

[glowball]

@glowball. If I am scum? Do you have a case? I think that if you are scum, then we should watch out for amrun. With her vote for you and two posts later her oh I read glowball again, unvote vote lane again.
.

No I haven't prepared a case on you. Ok, none of the rest of that makes a difference.... As for your problems with Amrun no providing a case, I mean I didn't so I don't really see that as a tell.

[lane0168]

I'm not saying its a tell. I just wonder why you got 5 pages of attention for not providing a case on saulres when amrun is doing the same thing. You know what I mean? I said before I didn't think it was THAT scummy of you to not provide a case on saulres and I thought your explanation for not giving town reads was acceptable

[lane0168]

Wait so you do think I'm scummy? Is it also because I was trying to move conversation past you not giving reads too? Somebody thinks my defense of you was scummy. What was it that you thought was scummy? My defense of you?

[lane0168]

Maybe they didn't say it was scummy. Just questioned my intentions I should say. Can't remember if the word scummy was used. Pretty sure it wasnt

[glowball]

I would prefer not to waste any more pages harping on people about providing cases or not. I think you are scummy because you seemed to be buddying, it was almost too good to be true that you weren't saying I am scum and it just seems a little fishy

[Maruchan]

I'd be fine with changing to Glowball, and I will tomorrow, if there aren't more voted on Morthrax.

I feel bad because half of this IS her playstyle, while the other half is scum, but the line as to where people are wanting her lynched for it is quite blurry. but I would prefer to lynch either of my scum suspects than a deadline no lynch

[Amrun]

I'm not saying its a tell. I just wonder why you got 5 pages of attention for not providing a case on saulres when amrun is doing the same thing. You know what I mean? I said before I didn't think it was THAT scummy of you to not provide a case on saulres and I thought your explanation for not giving town reads was acceptable

I don't think most people ever really cared about her not giving a case on saulres. I didn't, at least. She had reasons in her iso.

I cared about her not sharing her third scumread (which I figured out) and disagreed with her not sharing her townreads, which I have now put down to difference of opinion on theory.

[Hoppster]

I've now examined mothrax's postings and I'm just not seeing the argument against him. If someone could sum it up for me (preferably someone who had their vote on Nobody Special and hasn't changed it) I'll look again with the summary in mind. But I'm not seeing him anywhere near as scummy as glowball.

This sounds like a job for Hoppster and his pre-emptive amazingness.

ohai

To quote the tl;dr:

tl;dr

1. mothrax defends own slot with self-meta but attacks others for doing so.
   
2. mothrax makes an argument for Maruchan-scum, overlooking the logical continuation of glowball-town

Can somebody run me over the non-playstyle-related reasons for glowball-scum or quote it for me (like I've done with mothrax above)?

[lane0168]

So town read=scum now? I wasn't buddying. I wasn't even defending you. I was trying to move on. Do you agree that we talked about you not giving reads for far too long or don't you?

You have got to be shitting me. Here you are pleading that you aren't scum yelling kicking and screaming, get all emotional and frustrated, and because I could see why you were frustrated and believed you as town? That's what made me scummy?

So you're saying I SHOULD think you are scummy? Or else if I don't I'm scummy? Jesus glowball that's the most ridiulous thing I've heard in awhile. Town actually wanting to be looked at as scummy. That right there is the scummiest thing you've said all game.

[glowball]

Lane it's not that black and white and you should know that. Your reactions and reasons behind not finding me scummy seemed fake, town have genuine reactions. This whole up and arms thing you are doing now, especially that triple post is just digging your hole deeper for later. You should calm down, it's pretty obvious you aren't getting lynched today.

[lane0168]

I'm sorry for blowing up but that is just very off to me. And you're right. It is clear. But that statement seems fake. I'm just baffled that by all that, I'm the one that came put scummier lol

[thunderwielder]

-- She's been ignoring a lot of posts and points and questions. Now that could go either way, but I was looking through her wiki (where she talks about how blacklisting is stupid, by the by->thought that was pretty amusing) and in her first scum game, at the wrap up somebody says this post. Seems like similar behaviour here.
--- The whole, refusing to give reads thing.
--- The whole jumping on me for what I consider nothing (this is a grey area actually, not necessarily scum for that, BUT) blowing things out of proportion is scummy for me, plus the constant referrals to "everyone insulting her" when I don't think ANYONE has (if anything, I'll admit I've come the closest--but when others have told her she's being unreasonable, she immediately jumps to the "well, you must be insulting me too--harumph!" card, and so far it's making people back off.
--- Plus, yes I would like a policy lynch on her. I find her to be very unreasonable, and I'm having a hard time tearing my eyes away from her. I consider myself to be a pretty decent scum hunter, and I just can't shake this feeling. And if, on the rare chance that I'm misreading all of her behaviour and startling behaviour, it'll at least give

all of us

ME a break from constant arguments and having to tip-toe around with accusations or questions for fear of them being misinterpreted or her being "insulted."

That's my piece. I really wanted to include the previous game, because I think it's very valid to what's going on here.

Here you go Hoppster. If I missed any points here that others consider to be valid, please add them on (but that's what I came up with when trying to create a bullet point list earlier in the game).
But I'm really happy that Glowball has calmed down now. It's been a lovely relief, and my solid gut read has turned into a half gut read--I will say that.

[saulres]

My analysis of that previous game of hers, and how I feel they apply in this game, are in here.

[lane0168]

Disclaimer: I usually type as I'm thinking which is the reason I will probably double or triple post often. I apologize for this, but just when I'm done thing and press submit, ill think of something else to say.

@glowball to address the triple posting

[Supreme Overlord]

Because I had ALREADY pointed them out. You can read my iso.

The point of getting

you

to point them out was so we can see which parts you emphasize, and also so you can review your case and see if it still has merit.

@supreme overlord. Can you give a complete list of townie to scummy? With justification? I personally don't have a complete list with justification. Id like to see yours though. And I can try to do my best when I get home from work.

I'd still like to see yours, even if it's not completely set is stone.

Town-ish:

thunderweilder - has been making solid points, that I agree with on the whole. Been strong and committed with his attacks.
RoboThor - they make fairly good points; I'm not entirely sure why they're so on mothrax now, I'm hoping they'll switch to glowball. I'd like them to post a bit more frequently, too.
Amrun - I'm mostly happy that Amrun's been playing well. The only concern I have here is that she finds glowball town despite not really having strong reasons (that I can see).
saulres - started off shakily but in recent posts has been making good observations. Probably pretty close to Amrun.
Maruchan - with the recent posting of the case on saulres, I'm satisfied that Maruchan has had good reasons and is generally reasonable.

Neutral:

Hoppster - I was liking NihilisticNinja's play. His first couple posts were pretty good; since he's dropped out more recently I don't have a solid town-read on him. I'm not entirely sold on his mothrax case.
Auckmid - He hasn't been around much. He's got a couple of decent posts, but that's it. I don't really know where he stands, which isn't a good sign.
MrTrow - No idea. Hasn't done anything.

Scummy:

mothrax - I think NS could have done a lot more while he was here. Mothrax has at least done something and given reads, but without a whole heap of reasoning. I don't buy his idea of serial lurking as a tell.
lane - I find it strange that he hasn't changed his mind all game; been on Maruchan since his very first post, for fairly weak reasons IMO. No idea why he's so resistant to finding glowball scum.
glowball - I've been here; refusal to give reasoning, defend etc etc.

A lot was early game. That stuff about him getting a confirmed town wasn't. I thought that was super fake. I think maru has been fake all game.

Can you elaborate? Why is it fake, and why is fake scummy?


I'll be online once tomorrow, then not again before deadline. So, if need be, I will vote mothrax, but I do sincerely think that glowball is a better lynch.

Basically id rather mislynch moth than glow.

Why? Based on playstyle so far, do you think a town glowball will be more useful than a town mothrax?

the moth flip probably won't give a lot of information whereas a glow flip could be quite enlightening.

Yet you still think that, at deadline, you'd rather lynch mothrax than glowball?

[lane0168]

why is fake scummy? because town act like town. scum try to act like town. any of the fake town, would be scum. Because i think that having that whole ploy about not posting purposefully until someone calls him out on it so he can confirm them as town seemed over the top. and i dont believe that was the real intent behind the whole deal. I believe the whole intent was so that people would see him as being more townie as a result of him calling someone else confirmed town. and in general i just think maruchans scum hunting, and attitude towards pressure is just fake. he seems like he was trying not to care too much with a purpose. i find maruchan scummy. i still do. i think maru is the best lynch today.

Did you think that maru's purposeful not posting was a legitimate strategy? because i dont see it like that at all

As far as moth vs glowball. i didnt want to be a part of a glowball mislynch. idk why i'm so against that, i just am. however, after the last little spat with glowball, the human nature in me started to look at her with a different light. I think i wasnt quite understanding what the big fight was back there, because when i said it was about the saulres case and town reads, amrun said it really wasnt about that. i may have thought that about it, and therefore was failing to understand what i was reading.

So... answering the last questions might change my mind on the subject. based on playstyle so far, i think a town mothrax is more useful than a town glowball. I think that mothrax has actually made some good points in his posts. the reason i would vote mothrax over glowball, is because the points i've seen about the mothrax spot seem better to me than the cases i have seen on glowball.

do you agree that a glowball flip would give more information? i do for sure. i think thats obvious just due to the large participation. the mothrax vote is slightly more convincing to me than the glowball vote. shit i dont know who i'd vote for now that you posed those questions.

tbh i forgot about the complete list thing. sorry.

[lane0168]

.

Town-ish:

thunderweilder - has been making solid points, that I agree with on the whole. Been strong and committed with his attacks.
RoboThor - they make fairly good points; I'm not entirely sure why they're so on mothrax now, I'm hoping they'll switch to glowball. I'd like them to post a bit more frequently, too.
Amrun - I'm mostly happy that Amrun's been playing well. The only concern I have here is that she finds glowball town despite not really having strong reasons (that I can see).
saulres - started off shakily but in recent posts has been making good observations. Probably pretty close to Amrun.
Maruchan - with the recent posting of the case on saulres, I'm satisfied that Maruchan has had good reasons and is generally reasonable.

Neutral:

Hoppster - I was liking NihilisticNinja's play. His first couple posts were pretty good; since he's dropped out more recently I don't have a solid town-read on him. I'm not entirely sold on his mothrax case.
Auckmid - He hasn't been around much. He's got a couple of decent posts, but that's it. I don't really know where he stands, which isn't a good sign.
MrTrow - No idea. Hasn't done anything.

Scummy:

mothrax - I think NS could have done a lot more while he was here. Mothrax has at least done something and given reads, but without a whole heap of reasoning. I don't buy his idea of serial lurking as a tell.
lane - I find it strange that he hasn't changed his mind all game; been on Maruchan since his very first post, for fairly weak reasons IMO. No idea why he's so resistant to finding glowball scum.
glowball - I've been here; refusal to give reasoning, defend etc etc.

thunder is strong and committed on his attacks. top of the list. i have committed at least even if you dont think my case is strong. i think its strong. stronger than amruns case on me thats for sure. amrun hasn't changed her mind on me either. plus doesnt see the glowball case. she is way up there in townie. i havent changed my mind on maru, am committed to it, and also resist the glowball wagon, yet i'm bottom of the list. I am not following this. i do not understand why i am so low. dont get me wrong, i'm not trying to catch you in a trap by any means. i think you are pretty genuine in your scum hunting. i just dont understand this.

[glowball]

WOW... so you didn't want to be apart of my mislynch, but now that I have called you scummy I should go...awesome

[lane0168]

i think you can agree that your flip gives a lot more information than mothrax flip

[glowball]

I already said that, but the timing of your change of heart is suspect

[thunderwielder]

This will be my last post before going on V/LA. I don't really have too much to say, and I can't believe what I am saying is agreeing with Glowball. 595 is a good post, in my opinion. But I can't fault Lane for his reasoning, since it's my reasoning too. Okay, I guess this post is kind of useless, sorry about that.
If I were to create a list, it would look a lot like Supreme Overlord's list, only switching Hoppster and Maruchan. Hoppster's case on Mothrax is one that has made me consider and reconsider. I think it's a good scummation (see what I did there) of points. Maruchan, I agree with Lane, the 'gambit' seems fishy, but other than that I haven't seen too much wrong from him. Also, I would put Supreme in the townish category. There would also be a separate category for Lane, in between neutral and scummy. I guess this would have been easier if I just made a list. It's late--I'm tired. Goodnight everybody, and I'll try to post as much as I can and as soon as I can. Wish me luck in finding a home!

[Maruchan]

Good Luck!

also I'm getting off for the night. first day of my senior year tomorrow.

[saulres]

Good luck, O Wielder of Thunder! Assuming you also have some control over the rest of the storrm (and you're not just the Sound and not the Fury), find somewhere that's waterproof, and make sure you're close enough to a hospital in case the lightning strikes too close to home.

[lane0168]

I already said that, but the timing of your change of heart is suspect

if you're trying to suggest that it came closely and is related to you calling me scummy for lame reasons, you're right. it did and is related. i'm not hiding it.

however, after the last little spat with glowball, the human nature in me started to look at her with a different light