Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[I Am Innocent]

I basically killed any chance at a power role outting themself by calling out cavjj's lies. Is that something you would think I would do if I was cavjj's teammate?

If I recall correctly, Cav said he was a detective, and investigated someone. Then he got a role instead of alignment. This is an obvious slip. If I was his scum partner, I Would want to make sure I was one of the first to say something.

Rather than a chance at a CC and knowing who the cop or doctor is??? Yeah right.

[I Am Innocent]

Um, all right. I guess it was "funny"....not.

Xeras, I still have no way of trusting you of being doctor. We could have NS as our only PR. You still have to answer for your scummy D3 actions.

---

Looking at cavjj's posts, this one in particular did make me wonder why cavjj would take this 'stance'. So I looked for his reasoning and I quote (source):

IAI has gone all the game being seriously defensive and somehow getting away with it. He goes long periods of time without posting, defends himself and levels his post out with a very small acknowledgement of suspicion. There are very few cognitive projective arguments from IAI. Usually only small comments finished with “noted.” . He’s lurking, not saying enough and he’s scum.
Let’s take a look at IAI’s analytic nature. When he does actually post, they are full of analysis, while at the same time giving very little away. Most of his analysis only goes along with what we already actually know. That we should suspect player x or player y. Then when something comes up that actually needs analysing, he comes up with this gem:

N1, have no idea scumhunter was the choice. He came off as very null D1, so not sure what scum was thinking.

How can you be so dismissive?

------------------------------

VOTE: I Am Innocent

I am off for lunch, I will post my whilst stuff later today

Reading that again, I can't even understand that point cavjj was trying to make against IAI...it's not incriminating at all. Now either cavjj is trying to distance himself because he is IAI's scum partner, or cavjj was scum and only wanted IAI to be lynched. The latter is the part that doesn't make sense.

We know that NS's JK-actions saved Abel from the mafia kill. Abel did start the bandwagon to kill cavjj, and he also did bring IAI to L-1 -- if cavjj and IAI are the duo, it is easy to see why IAI targeted Abel. IAI could have been afraid that Abel would bring the attention back to IAI during the following day. Just speculation, but worthy to note.

By my own logic, particularly the point of cavjj's 'stance' against IAI, I can bring myself to doubt IAI's status as townie. I will wait for Xeras' day 3 defense, and IAI's comments. I would place a vote on IAI, but one wrong lynch and we lose (assuming DC votes to lynch IAI).

That attack by cavjj was basically a recount from parts of HA's attack on me from Post 472, up to an including the scumhunter comment.

Just scum parroting a town on a wagon that is not on him nor his teammate.

[DarkClaymore]

I am assuming when he said he got results, he meant the kill data, to analyze patterns and stuff. I always enjoy working with the day 1, night 1 kill data. ^^

Maybe. Or maybe not.

About trying to lynch you. How do you get mad at someone trying to lynch the lynchbait?

Are you scum? I never said this. My point was how he pushed IAI's wagon at one point while always saying "I want Darky dead". He literally said "Whilst or Claymore, change your mind and hammer IAI". What was the rush? Especially how, once this failed, he yet again came back to me. I don't remember him mentioning wanting to lynch IAI again latter. Strange, don't you think?

It's like "Claymore looks like obvious scum so I'll lynch him. Wait, maybe he'll be lynched latter anyway and it's better to take the opportunity to lynch IAI who is a SE". Until recently I was sure that his reaction doesn't fit what I was searching for from my lynchbait play. But, upon rereading, my mind has changed.

BTW, did anyone understand what this post #125 was about...? I tried reading before, after and... I just don't get what it is...

For some reason it really bothers me

It is page 6, less than 30 posts from the beginning of the day. You think it was dicknose's way of telling cavjj his N1 investigation?

That's why it caught my attention. Though it looks as if it's TOO obvious and hence unlikely but... who knows...

[I Am Innocent]

There's also the funny possible slip here where he said "If I were

role cop

" instead of "If I were

jailer

". No one asked about Jailer in the first place. So...

Ding ding ding, we have a winner folks!

So I convinced myself for now:
VOTE: Xeras

In a situation like this (MyLo with you being the only confirmed townie), you should really be the last to vote.

[Xeras]

What do you think would be more likely.
A whole post dedicated to a rolecop investigation, or choosing a word to begin your first post with?

[I Am Innocent]

Xeras, please respond to Post 1459.

Third time's a charm?

[I Am Innocent]

What do you think would be more likely.
A whole post dedicated to a rolecop investigation, or choosing a word to begin your first post with?

What do you think would be more likely, scum laying low D1, or pushing the first town wagon to L-1 and hammering the second town wagon without a claim?

Just because you and I would do it one way doesn't mean this scum team with the highly erratic cavjj with a coach telling him to say his investigation was a power role reveal would!

@whilst, did you say on the other site that cop investigations sometimes give you a power role reveal? And does dicknose also play on that site?

[Xeras]

Xeras, what do you think scum tried to do N2?

See I was avoiding this question because I wasn't here night 2. Let's see. That is when Honest Abel was jailed, and there was no kill correct?

[DarkClaymore]

So I convinced myself for now:
VOTE: Xeras

In a situation like this (MyLo with you being the only confirmed townie), you should really be the last to vote.

Meh. It seems like it'll take a while for voting to begin (especially for the hard to convince Whilst). Lets not forget that there's only ONE scum out there and we need THREE to lynch. Aside of me, another townie must be wiling to vote. Since we can't atm conclude anything 100% from the thread, might as well see how players act today as well.

Xeras reaction to my case on Dicknose felt rather scummy tbh. So my vote stands for now.

[singersigner]

Vote Count 4.2

DarkClaymore (0):
whilst (0):
Xeras (1): DarkClaymore
I Am Innocent (1): Xeras
No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (2): whilst, I Am Innocent

With 4 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Mod Notes:

• whilst PMed me during the night phase and let me know that he would be V/LA until the 31st.
  
• Deadline for Day Four is September 18th, 5PM PST.

[DarkClaymore]

Mod

, any chance of bringing Dicknose back?

Once a player has been replaced, they will remain replaced.
~singer

[DarkClaymore]

Mod

, any chance of bringing Dicknose back?

Once a player has been replaced, they will remain replaced.
~singer

[I Am Innocent]

Xeras, what do you think scum tried to do N2?

See I was avoiding this question because I wasn't here night 2. Let's see. That is when Honest Abel was jailed, and there was no kill correct?

Yeppers. So what do you think scum tried to that night?

It seems like it'll take a while for voting to begin (especially for the hard to convince Whilst). Lets not forget that there's only ONE scum out there and we need THREE to lynch. Aside of me, another townie must be wiling to vote. Since we can't atm conclude anything 100% from the thread, might as well see how players act today as well.

Xeras reaction to my case on Dicknose felt rather scummy tbh. So my vote stands for now.

And my vote would also be on Xeras at the moment if there wasn't part of me that still worries that the whilst might be the last scum.

@whilst, who do you suspect right now and why?

[DarkClaymore]

What is interesting about Whilst and Dicknose is how both of the reacted in a totally opposite manner to Cav's claim. I think the key might be in attempting to understand whose intention was protown and whose anti-town.

Whilst tried to keep Cav alive for a while and trying to reason out who is his partner #813.
Dicknose actually hammered Cav if not for NS's unvote mere seconds before that (I believe his intention to hammer was clear) #821

My bet would be Dicknose was trying to shut up his partner before he messes up further. While I didn't like Whilst's suggestion to keep Cav alive and try lynching his partner, at the very least it didn't appear as much anti-town as Dicknose's actions. True, it wasn't the greatest plan for town. But neither was it totally unreasonable nor clearly anti-town.

BTW, this post of Whilst in which he says "I thought only those with night actions affect how long the night is" makes me want to believe he is town. Why? Because I also thought so at first and sent my PM rather late after seeing another post by the mod (I was actually sure the long night is my fault ). Rather hard for me to believe he made that up.

[whilst]

@whilst, did you say on the other site that cop investigations sometimes give you a power role reveal? And does dicknose also play on that site?

Yeah, but we won't be playing that way ever again. No dicknose does not play on that site.

@whilst, who do you suspect right now and why?

I'm split on you and Xeras.

IAI and DC, do you believe that Xeras is the doctor?

[whilst]

IAI pointed out that cavjj's claim was pure BS after NS stated that a cop hammering is unlikely (and therefore scummy). Perhaps IAI saw that his scumpartner was doomed and decided to help by killing him off. Besides, how long was it before someone else pointed out cavjj's mistake?

Why help by "killing him off"? We now know there is no cop/doctor and only 1 power role, so back on D2 at most scum would have known that there is a JK. So why would scum IAI not lay low and see if some player counter claims cop or doctor. I basically killed any chance at a power role outting themself by calling out cavjj's lies. Is that something you would think I would do if I was cavjj's teammate?

Allow me to clarify: I meant "and decided to help himself by killing [cavjj] off". So, yeah, you got what I meant. Hmm...Didn't Xeras just say he was doctor? Yeah, your defense does have some weight.

[whilst]

Xeras, don't ignore my question. Why was your behavior scummy during the end of D3?

[whilst]

If Xeras is the doctor, he should be able to tell us who dicknose protected on N2. Assuming he is the doctor:

What if Abel was jailed, but not targeted? Then, dicknose had picked the right target to save.

Right?

[DarkClaymore]

@Whilst

Xeras already admitted he fakeclaimed

But you are right. I am lying about being a doctor. ^^ I wanted to see what kind of information I could gain from a fakeclaim.

[Xeras]

Xeras, don't ignore my question. Why was your behavior scummy during the end of D3?

The only real way to gain information is to make the mafia lower their guard. If you have all the attention on you, then they to tend to slip without realizing it.

Lynchbait 101

[DarkClaymore]

Xeras, think you can still get yourself outta this mess?

For me it comes down to either IAI or Xeras, as I'm ready to clear Whilst. While I couldn't find anything too certain that will make me clear IAI, neither did I find anything that made me think he's the scum. On the other hand, Dicknose has lots of stuff against him and there's only one thing which plays in his favor - he forced Cav to claim. If he's the scum - then it was bussing. If not, the bussing was done by IAI. One way or another - there was bussing there somewhere.

Cav saying that the claim was "the best he could come up during pressure" makes me believe he wasn't coached by IAI as then he'd probably have a claim ready WAY before. In general, the whole thing about Cav messing up with the hammer and the claim makes me believe his partner wasn't someone experienced like IAI.

So Whilst, I think it's all up to you. IAI and me both think it's Xeras (based on Dicknose's play). Please decide what is your stance.

[whilst]

Well that's great, both DC and Xeras played lynchbait in this game -- apparently. The only person I don't "get" at this point is 'Xeras':

1. D3, he plays incredibly scummy, after dicknose's mostly townie (I think we can agree. Dicknose accrued less than 5 votes the whole game, I think) playstyle
2. D4, he claims townie, claims doctor, claims fakeclaim and still is townie

Both actions are so incredibly scummy in their own way, that I feel that he might be doing it on purpose. DC, if Xeras played lynchbait, he did a more convincing job than you. Perhaps now it is more crucial than ever.

I had a feeling dicknose/Xeras was innocent before. This was my reasoning that I hinted at during D3:

DC two things:

1. I don't get why you believe NS so easily and not IAI (like me). IAI ousted cavjj by pointing out the flaw in cavjj's claim. If IAI were cavjj's partner, he would've kept his mouth shut at all costs.
   
   
2. In my scenario, do you care if you are lynched on D3, D4, or D5?

1) Because the moment Cav claimed he investigated and found the Jailer, the first thing that to pop in my mind was "if mafia really investigated and found the Jailer, it must have been the IC". If you don't kill the IC due to fear of him being protected - then at least investigate him. That's my way of thinking and the reason I'm willing trust his claim to an extend. I expected him to be the Jailer before he even claimed.

As for IAI. True, what he did was quite protown. I would have liked him to keep quiet for a while and try extract more info, but I admit I most likely wouldn't have thought about doing this as well in his place. Thing is, it still could be intended bussing or/and an attempt to shut his partner up so that others can't extract information. While I agree that IAI is more likely town, I don't really want a plan which bets on this.

2) I don't really think it matters.

But as I said, I'm not willing to be part of it unless the second assumption is a townie cleared by actions which are nearly 100% town. Like claim, cop investigation (btw, if scum claims cop then anyway whoever he says is cleared - is definitely cleared) or being Jailed when NK occurs.

The boldface is what matters. From this I figured DC was innocent and didn't have a power role. I pressed dicknose/Xeras for the same answer:

It matters to me in that I'd like who I find scummiest to go first.

I don't know that I support your plan, however.

Regardless of the fact that both of them didn't support my plan, neither of them objected to being lynched within the next three days. The only reason why anyone would've objected would have been because they were a PR or were scum.

So:

So Whilst, I think it's all up to you. IAI and me both think it's Xeras (based on Dicknose's play). Please decide what is your stance.

I will vote for IAI.
VOTE: I Am Innocent

And my vote would also be on Xeras at the moment if there wasn't part of me that still worries that the whilst might be the last scum.

Really? And you find me scummy, because? I think the above post/quote is your definitive

scumslip

. Someone who has found me repeatedly town the entire game (yes, the entire game -- shall I quote your posts for you, or should I just direct you to IAI's ISO? Just ctrl+f "whilst" down the page. The entire game you think I'm townie, but now you have the fear that I'm going to hammer Xeras. Well, well, well.

DC, I'll let you think about that. IAI, offer a rebuttal. I think it's IAI, not Xeras.

[DarkClaymore]

1. D3, he plays incredibly scummy, after dicknose's mostly townie (I think we can agree. Dicknose accrued less than 5 votes the whole game, I think) playstyle

I don't agree. I also have never understood where Abel brought that "I think Dicknose is town" thing from. I never saw him as town. He was always in the null zone for me and I was getting rather strong PR reads from him at some point (which I never presented due to thinking it might be protown PR).

He appeared to me like he was willing to just lynch someone and let the night begin. He was often saying how he REALLY wants me out, yet shortly after that was begging for either you or me change our minds and declare we gonna hammer IAI. He also tried to be null by lying rather low and not arising suspicion (this is where the PR reads came from for me).

I had a feeling dicknose/Xeras was innocent before. This was my reasoning that I hinted at during D3:

Regardless of the fact that both of them didn't support my plan, neither of them objected to being lynched within the next three days. The only reason why anyone would've objected would have been because they were a PR or were scum.

I guess each to his own, but at the very least it's not convincing ME. I could easily see scum saying that one line. If I were scum I'd have no problem acting like I don't mind being sacrificed, especially since it fits my meta. Also, if he is scum then he knew your plan won't work. Because he KNEW Abel isn't scum and jailing him won't cease NKs. It's like answering to something you know 100% won't happen anyway.

And my vote would also be on Xeras at the moment if there wasn't part of me that still worries that the whilst might be the last scum.

Really? And you find me scummy, because? I think the above post/quote is your definitive

scumslip

. Someone who has found me repeatedly town the entire game (yes, the entire game -- shall I quote your posts for you, or should I just direct you to IAI's ISO? Just ctrl+f "whilst" down the page. The entire game you think I'm townie, but now you have the fear that I'm going to hammer Xeras. Well, well, well.

I believe you were "leaning toward town" the entire game for him. That's the impression I got from his posts back then and yet again now after rechecking. He never really said "I'm certain Whilst is town". So his caution is legit in my eyes.



Also, we could go over the bussing. Because let's admit it, IAI or Dicknose, one of them bussed Cav. The question is who.

Dicknose

• Declares Cav is second on his suspects list and says he wants to hammer, despite Whilst asking to wait for Abel.
  _
  
• This forces Cav to claim.
  _
  
• Acts as if he believes in Cav's claim and wants him to reveal who is the JK he found, despite how outting a PR is obviously anti-town and even Cav said so himself in response. Also, it should be noted that he never (IIRC) gave any excuse to believing in this claim unlike Whilst who did (correct me if I'm wrong).
  _
  
• Once the fakeclaim exposed, he rushes to hammer Cav and almost did so if not for NS's coincidental unvote a few seconds before.
  _
  
• Once Whilst proposed to keep Cav alive and go after his partner, he quickly replied with "everyone on Whilst wagon". Which makes him not only the sole player who easily agreed to Whilst's plan (while pretty much everyone else disagreed) but also very inconstant as he wanted IAI lynched very badly before. Not to mention how Whilst was his #3 while IAI -the- number #1. Why go after #3 when there are only two scum and in his eyes they should be his #1 and #2?

[Xeras]

Claymore, do the right thing and vote for IAI. End this game with a town victory.

If whilst was scum he would have taken the easy path at lylo and voted for me.

[DarkClaymore]

Claymore, do the right thing and vote for IAI. End this game with a town victory.

If whilst was scum he would have taken the easy path at lylo and voted for me.

I know for sure Whilst isn't scum. As for IAI, I can't clear him. Yet I can't find anything that makes me think he is Cav's partner. There is simply much more evidence against Dicknose in the thread.

I have some pretty good reasons to clear IAI, which I all stated today already, yet nothing make me 99% sure like in Whilst's case. If anything, Cav implying a claim isn't needed when IAI was at L-1 would be the winner for me. I don't think they planned all of this THAT far.