camn's temperamental - Mini 1232 - GAME OVER

[Haylen]

Big headache. Will read and comment tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

I'm liking the fact that we apparently have plenty of wall-posters this game. It generally indicates more activity, which I like. The bad part is they tend to cross many subjects, so it makes piecing things together a little harder.

@Fishy- I'm confused by your response to Lurconis in your Post 78 because it leads to you voting him, but by this time he has already had a conversation with with Kayne and admits to misunderstanding and in the end actually agreeing with you. Was his misunderstanding faked? I'm not getting it.

@Sathoris- not this game. Seems I'm only allowed to replace into scum roles.

[Parama]

if this game devolves into war of the walls I'm going to stop reading walls so

[kanyeknowsbest]

I'm liking the fact that we apparently have plenty of wall-posters this game. It generally indicates more activity, which I like. The bad part is they tend to cross many subjects, so it makes piecing things together a little harder.

This is a bit of a misconception. Wall posting is not necessarily a good thing, nor does the lack of wall posting indicate a lack of activity. It would really make grading your posts a lot easier if you kept them under 500 words each.

[Lurconis]

@Zang Yes in those two games they did, I did not check that before I just checked to see his first vote to see if meta matched. As far as the role pm that is my mistake for just skimming them. I apologize for getting the class off track with that sidebar I was not aware Night 0 discussion was the norm.

@Sathoris can you explain what you did mean by "running the numbers"?

@BB Wagon Are you on the wagon because BB contradicted himself when talking about his fishy vote being serious versus a joke or because of his mother reference or both and if both which do you feel is more scummy the contradiction or the overreaction?

@Camn

My vote should be on Sathoris in that last vote count instead of twisted.

@Kanye Why do you feel the need to act like a teacher when we are all students in Camns class.

[Zang]

I used the word scumtell because I thought that was the obvious interpretation. If I was wrong about my interpretation, he would have corrected me. Instead, he explained why it was a scumtell - which makes it totally and completely clear that's that what he meant originally.

My interpretation of his original post and his response to my question is that he thinks being serious in the RVS is scummy, and that I did that, and so that I'm scummy. What is your interpretation?

I interpreted his vote as a semi-serious RVS vote.

I agree. It was TRYING to be a reason. But it failed.

Not even that, to me it seemed like a joke.

C'mon Zang, I know you're not new here. Vote Count Analysis. The stigma that comes with being on a mislynch wagon. Sneaky scum like to push wagons that they aren't joining, though usually that helps town catch them more than anything.

Yes, but it's not a scumtell to try and prevent a mislynch.

Pre-game talk is the site meta, so you should assume that if you didn't read something else.

Since when? I've been in several games with and without it.

Because you're trying to look like innocent town not knowing about pre-game talk.

But what if I am? To me it seems like it should be more of a null read.

For me, because reads change, I'm honest and list who I think is town and scum in my head. Do you think something bad can come out of this?

I don't entirely understand.

[kanyeknowsbest]

@Kanye Why do you feel the need to act like a teacher when we are all students in Camns class.

Have you ever heard of a strategy called team teaching? Considering the especially diverse nature and needs of this classroom, I can fully understand why Ms. Camn would desire to employ such a strategy and give my full support to her decision.

[kanyeknowsbest]

Since when? I've been in several games with and without it.

I have personally yet to see a game where pregame talk was not allowed, and your claim is a bit surprising to me.

Yes, but it's not a scumtell to try and prevent a mislynch.

It can be, but it is a very subjective thing and is dependent on whether it feels like the one performing this tell

knows

that it is a mislynch or just

believes

it is a mislynch.

[Fishythefish]

@Fishy- I'm confused by your response to Lurconis in your Post 78 because it leads to you voting him, but by this time he has already had a conversation with with Kayne and admits to misunderstanding and in the end actually agreeing with you. Was his misunderstanding faked? I'm not getting it.

Hmmm - I have to say I wasn't really thinking about that conversation when I wrote 78. Looking at it now, I think what I'd say is Lurc clearly hadn't properly read the thread, and particularly what I'd said, when he posted 46. If he had, no way could he think we didn't know about N0. Gives me the read that Lurc was more eager to wagon than to think. Which on page 2 probably isn't a very good scumtell.

UNVOTE:

[camn]

not a lot of vote movement today.
I guess my blood thirst can wait.

Parama

- 1

( twistedspoon )

Haylen

- 1

( PeregrineV )

BBmolla

- 5

( Parama kanyeknowsbest Chair RedPanda Johhog )

fishythefish

- 1

( Haylen )

Sathoris

- 1

( Lurconis )

NOT VOTING:

( Zang Sathoris BBmolla fishythefish )

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is WED, SEPTEMBER 14th, 9am MY TIME.. . Or whenever I get around to it.

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:

I need to reread, but I want to do this for now, even though my vote wasn't even counted in the vc lol.

- I 'lol' when I see your FACE.

Point was to get Hog to post, and it was accomplised.

Should be posting something within the hour to get some real reads out.

[BBmolla]

Alright, main people I want to examine are my wagon's folks, because I really doubt I'm being scummy enough to garner a wagon at this point in time.

Parama

It starts in #58, with some terrible logic from Parama, mostly about me findng the seriousness during RVS scummy. I think it's something to look into, I don't think it's something to lynch over. Parama is overreacting about me and painting me as scum. Never played with Parama except in skype, so I don't know if this is just how she works or what, but she is quite literally making me seem more scummy then I am being.
Also, quick question, if I'm scum, why would I hop off a ML wagon? That makes no sense. At all.
Your evidence is absolutely poor, and half of it is just "Oh my god he did this common action? He's practically claiming scum!"
I guess #72 is supposed to be a joke, but I don't really find it funny considering it's what you're actually doing.
I'm apparently scum in #94 because I unvoted someone who I wanted to look into but was not fully convinced is scum. I will say once again, why would I discourage a ML if I was mafia?
Then he misreps me.

Your case on me is garbage Parama, if you really want to ML me make up some more stuff about me being scum, I'm sure if you call me scum enough people will start to believe it.

VOTE: Parama
This is not a pressure vote. This is truly someone I think is scum.

Kanye

Kanye hops on in #61 and then proceeds to vote me for unvoting. I'm sorry for unvoting someone who I'm not completely sure is scum, I will make sure to fence sit next time. My apologies.
Most everything else from him is useless filler.

Chair

Chair's hop on in #73 is unexplained, and looks like they are just sheeping Parama. Please make a case on me. Your current vote just looks like a hop on the bandwagon.

Red Panda

#76 is absolutely dreadful. Explain why it looks I am cracking under pressure, that's a really broad statement that could be applied to quite literally anything.

Johhog

Johhog votes me in post #81. You're the fifth on my wagon, don't criticise me for being the fourth on some other. And I clearly commented on it, you even quoted my comment. Activity is not my reason, I clearly stated my reason. I'm not trying to get towncred, I don't need it, I just don't want to ML someone page 3 when I don't have a reason to be completely sure they are scum. The vote in this post is my first "serious, I think this person is truly scum" vote. And then you hop on my wagon because you don't "buy" my unvote and because I "give off scummy vibes." K. Those are definitely better reasons to vote someone than I ever gave.

@all of the above: If I was not a possible vote this game, who would you be voting instead?

Fishy: I made a fish pun during my vote. It wasn't a "this guy is scum and must be lynched at all costs" vote. I had no reason to make that. Stop painting me as scum, and if you think I'm scum, vote me.

Zang: Is seeing the same flaws in the cases as I am. Good sign.

Lurconis: Pretty null. I don't understand the votes on him either.

Peregrine: Cruising by un noticed.

Haylen: Do stuff.

Sathoris: I agree with his stuff about the daytalk being overreacted about. It's silly imo. Could you explain what was effective about Parama's case on me?

Twisted: Didn't even know he was in this game. Thoughts on my wagon and/or myself?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's my answers, sorry I forgot to post them earlier:
1. I have played four games here, and am in many other games. I have played at EM prior, as well as a few times in real life.
2. I'd out the guilty, better to get one scum then risk dying without outing.

[Parama]

It starts in #58, with some terrible logic from Parama, mostly about me findng the seriousness during RVS scummy. I think it's something to look into, I don't think it's something to lynch over.

So you thought it was scummy, but also not lynchworthy?
Something you find scummy means something you think makes a player more lynchworthy than others.

Parama is overreacting about me and painting me as scum.

Overreacting? No, I am calling you out.

Never played with Parama except in skype, so I don't know if this is just how she works or what, but she is quite literally making me seem more scummy then I am being.

I'm actually probably missing some things that you're doing that are scummy. Can't catch everything!
Also, I am a HE.
THE GENDER THING IS RIGHT UNDER MY FREAKING AVATAR SERIOUSLY.

Also, quick question, if I'm scum, why would I hop off a ML wagon? That makes no sense. At all.

I answered this in a recent post.

Your evidence is absolutely poor, and half of it is just "Oh my god he did this common action? He's practically claiming scum!"

"Common action" yeah right I don't do textbook scumtells. I find things that are scummy, press on them, and get the scum to make themselves obvious.

I guess #72 is supposed to be a joke, but I don't really find it funny considering it's what you're actually doing.

Insisting something is true won't make it true if it isn't true to begin with.

I'm apparently scum in #94 because I unvoted someone who I wanted to look into but was not fully convinced is scum. I will say once again, why would I discourage a ML if I was mafia?

1. Yes, you relieved pressure even though you stated your vote was a pressure vote.
2. Again, already answered.

Then he misreps me.

I prefer the phrase "finding the hidden interpretation in a seemingly harmless post".

Your case on me is garbage Parama, if you really want to ML me make up some more stuff about me being scum, I'm sure if you call me scum enough people will start to believe it.

Again, you're saying what I'm doing is this:
"BB is scum! OMG he's mafia! Lynch BB!"
What you are also doing at the same time:
"I'm town! OMG I'm a mislynch! Don't lynch me!"
So there's: 1. hypocrisy, 2. misrep, 3. lying

VOTE: Parama
This is not a pressure vote. This is truly someone I think is scum.

[/quote]
"JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU GET THE POINT, this is NOT an RVS vote. This is NOT a pressure vote. This is a SERIOUS vote. Don't you DARE try to point out how FAKE it is!"

seriously though, dat OMGUS.

[Parama]

agh messed up tag please fix mod? :>

[BBmolla]

Parama I am town and this is a mislynch. There is literally nothing I could possibly do that you won't construe in some sort of scum fashion, and that is you painting me as scum. I forget the term, but it's you being so convinced I'm scum in your mind that you create things that aren't there to reinforce your view.

Also, you literally just admitted you misrepped me to enforce my lynch. [sarcasm]Such a town move right there[/sarcasm].

[Parama]

I did not misrep you. I looked at your post and divulged its hidden meaning.
Scum have a tendency of not being pro-town in their actions, regardless of how they look. Yes I am biased, but that's because I think you're scum. I'm looking for the scum motivation in your posts, not the town motivation.
Though if I'm so convinced in my mind that you're scum, it implies that I am legitimately scumhunting, which in turn implies I'm town. But you say I'm scum. So that term couldn't possibly apply to me, right? If I'm scum, I would be absolutely sure you were town, right? Why would I have to convince myself that you're scum, if I knew objectively that it wasn't true? Your train of logic only makes sense if you think I'm town, which you don't.

[BBmolla]

I did not misrep you. I looked at your post and divulged its hidden meaning.

The hidden meaning in this post is that you did misrep me.

Scum have a tendency of not being pro-town in their actions, regardless of how they look. Yes I am biased, but that's because I think you're scum. I'm looking for the scum motivation in your posts, not the town motivation.

Cool. So you pretty much just confirmed what I just said. I'm scum no matter what in your mind and there's nothing I can do to change that.

Though if I'm so convinced in my mind that you're scum, it implies that I am legitimately scumhunting, which in turn implies I'm town. But you say I'm scum. So that term couldn't possibly apply to me, right? If I'm scum, I would be absolutely sure you were town, right? Why would I have to convince myself that you're scum, if I knew objectively that it wasn't true? Your train of logic only makes sense if you think I'm town, which you don't.

You're not scumhunting. You're tunneling me. There's a difference.

[Parama]

no
yes, I pinned you as scum. deal with it.
you're completely missing the point.

[Johhog]

Johhog

Johhog votes me in post #81. You're the fifth on my wagon, don't criticise me for being the fourth on some other. And I clearly commented on it, you even quoted my comment. Activity is not my reason, I clearly stated my reason. I'm not trying to get towncred, I don't need it, I just don't want to ML someone page 3 when I don't have a reason to be completely sure they are scum. The vote in this post is my first "serious, I think this person is truly scum" vote. And then you hop on my wagon because you don't "buy" my unvote and because I "give off scummy vibes." K. Those are definitely better reasons to vote someone than I ever gave.

@all of the above: If I was not a possible vote this game, who would you be voting instead?

OK. Your vote was essentially random, and fourth on a wagon. My vote had a reason, so I'll criticise you all that I want. ML someone? He was at L-2, and you voted him to L-3. As I said, I don't buy it.

[RedPanda]

Alright, main people I want to examine are my wagon's folks, because I really doubt I'm being scummy enough to garner a wagon at this point in time.

Parama

It starts in #58, with some terrible logic from Parama, mostly about me findng the seriousness during RVS scummy. I think it's something to look into, I don't think it's something to lynch over. Parama is overreacting about me and painting me as scum. Never played with Parama except in skype, so I don't know if this is just how she works or what, but she is quite literally making me seem more scummy then I am being.
Also, quick question, if I'm scum, why would I hop off a ML wagon? That makes no sense. At all.
Your evidence is absolutely poor, and half of it is just "Oh my god he did this common action? He's practically claiming scum!"
I guess #72 is supposed to be a joke, but I don't really find it funny considering it's what you're actually doing.
I'm apparently scum in #94 because I unvoted someone who I wanted to look into but was not fully convinced is scum. I will say once again, why would I discourage a ML if I was mafia?
Then he misreps me.

Your case on me is garbage Parama, if you really want to ML me make up some more stuff about me being scum, I'm sure if you call me scum enough people will start to believe it.

VOTE: Parama
This is not a pressure vote. This is truly someone I think is scum.

Kanye

Kanye hops on in #61 and then proceeds to vote me for unvoting. I'm sorry for unvoting someone who I'm not completely sure is scum, I will make sure to fence sit next time. My apologies.
Most everything else from him is useless filler.

Chair

Chair's hop on in #73 is unexplained, and looks like they are just sheeping Parama. Please make a case on me. Your current vote just looks like a hop on the bandwagon.

Red Panda

#76 is absolutely dreadful. Explain why it looks I am cracking under pressure, that's a really broad statement that could be applied to quite literally anything.

Johhog

Johhog votes me in post #81. You're the fifth on my wagon, don't criticise me for being the fourth on some other. And I clearly commented on it, you even quoted my comment. Activity is not my reason, I clearly stated my reason. I'm not trying to get towncred, I don't need it, I just don't want to ML someone page 3 when I don't have a reason to be completely sure they are scum. The vote in this post is my first "serious, I think this person is truly scum" vote. And then you hop on my wagon because you don't "buy" my unvote and because I "give off scummy vibes." K. Those are definitely better reasons to vote someone than I ever gave.

Just cause you unvoted to prevent a ML doesnt mean your not scum. it could be that you targeted your scumbuddy at the start to make it look like you guys arent buddies and then unvoted when you thought he might be in danger. also when the votes started coming to you, you use a bet on paramas mother's life which i think is really scummy. what did you expect him to reply? hes obviously not going to bet on it. And my Really Broad statement was to be applied to what i quoted. its a pity why you cant understand why that statement seems that way.

[Fishythefish]

Fishy: I made a fish pun during my vote. It wasn't a "this guy is scum and must be lynched at all costs" vote. I had no reason to make that. Stop painting me as scum, and if you think I'm scum, vote me.

I never thought it was - but it

was

a "this guy is scummy and could do with some votes" vote. I do think you're the most likely scumbag around atm, but my opinions are still changing rapidly, and I'm certainly not ready for either a claim or a lynch, so I'm not going to put you at L-1 yet. If you had only a couple of votes I would be voting for you.

Parama I am town and this is a mislynch. There is literally nothing I could possibly do that you won't construe in some sort of scum fashion, and that is you painting me as scum. I forget the term, but it's you being so convinced I'm scum in your mind that you create things that aren't there to reinforce your view.

The term you are looking for is probably "confirmation bias".

Lots of your reply to Parama seems to be "you said this is scummy, but I'm not scum, so you're misrepping me". Parama may indeed be misrepping you, but if so this isn't the way to demonstrate it.

There seems to be a disconnect in your recent posts, where you think Parama is both
a) so convinced you are scum he won't listen to anything you say.
b) scum who knows you are a mislynch.
Scum can't tunnel - they know the answer.

[Twistedspoon]

catching up now...

[Sathoris]

@Sathoris can you explain what you did mean by "running the numbers"?

Don't answer my question with a new question, my answer should have no impact on your answer of my question. I'll answer when you go first.

Sathoris: Could you explain what was effective about Parama's case on me?

Like I said earlier you unvoting Fishy when he's on L-2 for no good reason. You wanted to get off that wagon so you won't appear in a scummy position on the VCA if we did lynch fishy and he turned out town. The manner of posting I disagree with, but you're caught in an argument with Parama now. So his post was effective.

you use a bet on paramas mother's life which i think is really scummy. what did you expect him to reply? hes obviously not going to bet on it.

I'm just going to say that this is godawful. The mother thing was just a joke and evidently poor wording if you all can't take it. Major scumpoints to you for painting that as 'really scummy'.

Scum can't tunnel - they know the answer.

Scum can certainly tunnel and appear townish that way.

---

My approach deems that BBmola is the best lynch at the moment, but no need to rush things. We need to make this decisions carefully and weigh all the odds.

[Twistedspoon]

for one to catch up we must look... deep inside ourselves...

deeper...

introspective...

Oh and no reason for Fishy to be lynched this early, not in my opinion anyway.

UNVOTE:

@BBmolla
Yes. Also, how do you know that Fishy would be lynched?

-Misder

I don't. But having five votes on someone on page three doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Not enough info yet.

not sure about this. Chair does the right thing here by questioning BB but BB seems to dislike RVS wagoning for some reason. If one of them flips scum I guess the other could be a likely partner from this.

parama's #58 is sound and makes a lot of the points I would have made (except the ones about me obv)

It wasn't that serious of a vote. It was to put some pressure on Fishy, which clearly is already being done by four others.

so what was wrong with more pressure?

it's the usual for scum to be able to talk during pre-game

I did not know that.

unvote

really? It's not uncommon at all

No, because my mother isn't as important as a mafia game.
I am pursuing a lead, simple as that. Who knows, I

*may* change my mind later on

, but if you're scum like I think you are, that seems unlikely to happen.

Why would you do this? I mean, you're so sold on me being scum, why could you possibly change your mind on me?

this is a good find, but personally I don't think it's that great of an escape clause for parama. If he wanted to back out of a wagon at soem point, there are better ways of doing it than saying 'I may change my mind'

It wasn't that serious of a vote. It was to put some pressure on Fishy, which clearly is already being done by four others.

Parama are you willing to bet on your mother's life right now that I am scum? Why or why not?

Unvote. Vote:BBmolla

your post seems to me like scum cracking under pressure

you should have more to say from 75 posts. Might let you off because you say it's your first forum game though.

Fishy's #78 makes good points about Luc, a player who I am terrible at reading


looking at this quote

His vote for Parama gives an actual reason (buddying), which he then immediately undermines by saying he's voting because Parama asked for a vote.

it's not undermining, it's an addition (hence why I said in retrospect)

conflict doesn't matter anyways; It's RVS. Who develops conflict over an RVS vote?

I agree with this, and Fishy's poor attempt at finding scum fails.

and the rest of your post, how do arrive at this below conclusion on fishy from this quote? The two seem contradictory

Parama and Fishy is most likely town, Zang and BBmolla is scumspects.

Zang is very much defending spoon and BB.

zang never mentions me iirc

the rest of this post has a good find though.

C'mon Zang, I know you're not new here. Vote Count Analysis. The stigma that comes with being on a mislynch wagon. Sneaky scum like to push wagons that they aren't joining, though usually that helps town catch them more than anything.

Yes, but it's not a scumtell to try and prevent a mislynch.

this early? wagons are more for pressure at this point

Scummy =/= scum

parama explains my thoughts on this quote well in #94

the number of players who don't know about scum pre-game talk is bizzare

Since when? I've been in several games with and without it.

I have personally yet to see a game where pregame talk was not allowed, and your claim is a bit surprising to me.

this.
It's usually a good thing when other players have my thoughts in early game. little has developed so town mindets are often most similar at the start of the game as there are less things to consider

in post 76: the point on panda is well made. If BB flips town then panda needs a serious looking at for a very opportunistic and badly explained vote. However the newbie mindet is to sheep the biggest wagons, so this must also be considered.

in this post BB asks me my opinions on his wagon. I'd say some of the votes are shaky. Parma makes the best case, but chair and panda's votes are blatant sheeping. Not scumtells in themselves, especially since chair was asked to sheep, but they should be considered if you flip town
Kanye's vote on you was sound i thought. you don't have to be completely sure a player is scum in RVS to vote them and unvoting or not voting in RVS is usually scum playing it safe imho.
In conclusion I think your wagon will certainly have scum on it if you flip town. Most likely not parama or kanye though.

also when the votes started coming to you, you use a bet on paramas mother's life which i think is really scummy

is it?
I thought he was just saying do you really think I'm scum in a more interesting way. It wasn't AtE the way I read it

Scum can't tunnel - they know the answer.

they can fake it though.
But i see your point here

VOTE: zang
Is playing very cautiously. His fishy unvote was never explained and he has no vote atm.

ninja: sath takes a couple of my points on panda and fishy. good stuff

[camn]

Preview, People--- you speak it?

Parama

- 1

( BBmolla )

Haylen

- 1

( PeregrineV )

BBmolla

- 5

( Parama kanyeknowsbest Chair RedPanda Johhog )

fishythefish

- 1

( Haylen )

Zang

- 1

( twistedspoon )

Sathoris

- 1

( Lurconis )

NOT VOTING:

( Zang Sathoris fishythefish )

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is WED, SEPTEMBER 14th, 9am MY TIME.. . Or whenever I get around to it.