Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[whilst]

Abel, you're not a noob. Never join a noob game ever again unless you come in as IC or SE.

[Honest Abel]

I have to be SE next time. This was my second newbie game. I think I will continue playing newbie games. I've always liked the simple setups.

[Bricktoes]

congratulations, town.

[whilst]

I don't think I'm playing another mafia game until winter break. This was soooooo time consuming. I'll make a full post later.

[Xeras]

congratulations, town.

For a second, I thought I was going to get lynched. >>

Playing the lynchbait game is a narrow path, but yields great results. The hard part is going from lynchbait to trustworthy again.

Good game guys. Abel, sorry for tunneling you, but you were so protown, I was convinced that you were scum. ^^

[BBmolla]

That was a ridiculously long, but well played game.

That quick hammer day 1 was laaame.

[Bricktoes]

congratulations, town.

For a second, I thought I was going to get lynched. >>

Sorry about that.

Everyone played very well today, aside from the fakeclaim and several of you missing things that were said blatantly.

[Bricktoes]

BB, I look forward to actually playing with you.

[Xeras]

congratulations, town.

For a second, I thought I was going to get lynched. >>

Sorry about that.

Everyone played very well today, aside from the fakeclaim and several of you missing things that were said blatantly.

Fakeclaim had a purpose, and it served itself well. <3

I was seeing how long it would take whilst or IAI to say something about it, and then follow up to see how scummy that person was, by looking at voting history, and applying math.

[Bricktoes]

It was weak, and you could have done that anyway. Did you explain lynchbait earlier in the thread?

[DarkClaymore]

Asking over and over, "Would I really do that if I were scum?"

This is one of the reasons I decided he is more likely scum. Even if you try to think as scum in the shoes of town, you usually won't be able to bring so many reasons in your defense. Unless you are THE scum who considered all these possibilities.

There's also the thing of pushing to show his meta and how great it is, making us think every little mistake he makes making him protown. It did work on me at first, until at some point I decided "Wait, let's forget all that meta BS and just treat him like any normal player". Then when it stroke me.


Ultimately, his last post what did him in for me:

And pushing hard against a very talkative player like HA D2 instead? Why would scum draw such attention like that?

He was doing this only at first. After things calmed down, after his L-1, he was much more quiet and less accusing. I think he learned that going after Abel will put him too much in the spotlight and should be avoided.

I keep trying to figure out why Honest Abel though and the only thing I can come it with is that he was one of the two main players (along with NS) pushing a dicknose wagon after the cavjj flop.

Please... "Abel died for pushing Dicknoses's wagon"? NO. Abel died because he was putting effort and was overall protown and hard to lynch. Trying to justify Dicknose's guilt with mafia targeting Abel is WAY too much of a stretch.

if I am scum that means dicknose is not scum, why not push his wagon D2 after the cavjj flop instead of my supposed teammate?

This was the winner for me. He basically said that people were voting Dicknose back then because they were sure he is Cav's partner.

Yet I just found another post in which:

And he was one of the two players (along with HA) voting to lynch someone else (dicknose) after the cavjj claim. Neither made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside going into N2.

So he didn't like the voting on Dicknose, yet now tries to defend himself by saying they were voting the other scum? The one you also suspected? Uh-huh.

Also, I'd expect him to vote in that post. Look at Whilst who was numerous times accused of being wishy washy or indecisive and he still voted. This appeared to me like he wants to be the one to hammer in the end.



Seriously though, I found too much evidence against Dicknose. But the fact he switched out so easily made me believe he is likely to be vanilla as he said he likes PRs . Funny what random questions can do sometimes.

Mod

. Thank you for hosting the game. Bet it was a hassle with some much activity and things happening
The scenes you wrote were short and rather simple, yet exactly the type I enjoy for a game without a theme.

Only one thing: Pay a little more attention when you count the votes
But as Abel said, it didn't harm the game in any way and you soon edited when someone pointed out the mistake. So all well that ends well

IAI

, you really hardly put any solid evidence for you being scum, let alone Cav's partner. I think there were zero signs at all for the latter aside of stuff which makes me overthink. Very good scum play. I really felt like you deserve this win at one point. But how you pushed "I'm a good. The scum me would have done B but I did A" in the end did you in for me. I think you might want to avoid overusing such statements in the future.

Whilst

, have no idea how you figured out it's IAI. Was it solely based on thinking Dicknose is town? I still couldn't see him clearly as town even after rereading so much... But I did get some town reads near the end, whereas got 0 from IAI. Vety good job there I have to admit.

Abel

, while I kinda see your over the top activity as the reason I switched to lynchbait play - it did prove very useful latter on when I was searching for stuff against IAI. In a way, YOU are the one who did him in by forcing him to defend himself with scummy arguments. I still think sometimes it's better wait and see whatever someone else points what you thought. This will help you get some reads on the player, like I did by staying quiet regarding not sending PM at N2 and this cleared Whilst for me. But each to his own I suppose.
Great job overall.

Cavjj

, you did a good job not connecting yourself to IAI. Don't know whatever it was his advice or not, but it was VERY convincing. Also, you really made it look like you'll lynch him, going as far as asking "Is a claim necessary" which can be translated as "What are we waiting for? Let's lynch the scum already!". Very convincing.

NS

, seems like some here hate you but I think you played well. You DID protect Abel, putting aside of the conclusion we had from this. You gave us more discussion and turned end game from lylo into mylo with a confirmed townie. I think if not for that, we could have messed up and lost. Very good play IMO, though many might not agree

[BBmolla]

Was there a scum QT?

[BBmolla]

Er lemme rephrase, could we see the scum QT?

[BBmolla]

>Honest Able
>500 posts

Dear god.

[cavjj]

Theres two things I have to say first. Molla, I can really only apologise for the hammer. I wanted to see what I could get away with. Genuinely the time between my post saying i might vote, and the hammer, was myself having an internal ethical argument and analysis about what would happen D2 if I did it. Sorry dude.

Also, Abel. Dude, you are just a fucking machine. Seriously. How do you do all that shit? It got to the point where I'd post a mistake and 2 minutes later re-read what I'd put and go "shit, Abel will spot that.

I have no qualms posting the QT, although I would rather wait until IAI gets here and agrees just because....... drumroll...... of the code we used N1.

Which leads me to the claim. I feel slightly vindicated on this because I was correct in my prediction of PR's at the time of the claim. We had a jailkeeper, which I knew because IAI got no result N1 and I was certain we had no other PR's. This was my first game, I just assumed that because it was a mafia

role

cop, the town counterpart would be the same. I will not make the same mistake again.

I basically tried to play a lot more dumb than I am. I had this big spreadsheet with voting patterns, analysis of the maths in the likelihood of PR's and other titbits.

I'll give my personal feedback in a bit cos I'm pressed for time but in short, Abel, you were brilliant, seriously hope I play with you again at some point.

[cavjj]

IAI did keep posting his thoughts in the QT after I was lynched. One thing he did say was that he wished I'd just gone away after revealing. There was a reason why I stayed around. Some of you noticed that you had effectively ented D3 without a nightkill. If you had carried on that way, I would have gone away and suddenly appeared to hammer when someone was put to L-1 but Abel (again) noticed I could do that. So IAI that's why I stayed around. I don't think I gave anything away but people can judge for themselves now they know the full facts.

[BBmolla]

Theres two things I have to say first. Molla, I can really only apologise for the hammer. I wanted to see what I could get away with. Genuinely the time between my post saying i might vote, and the hammer, was myself having an internal ethical argument and analysis about what would happen D2 if I did it. Sorry dude.

Lol it's fine, I get a town win with only 15 posts.

[cavjj]

Also, singer thankyou very much for the mod, you were fantastic

[DarkClaymore]

We had a jailkeeper, which I knew because IAI

got no result N1

and I was certain we had no other PR's.

Wasn't it me who was blocked N1? Or was NS lying perhaps...?
If this is the case, then I can't believe IAI didn't figure out the JK is NS. Even I did.

[DarkClaymore]

BTW, I should have claimed cop as soon as D4 started and said I found IAI guilty.
I didn't notice Whilst was away, but it could be pretty good to the fakeclaim because no one would hammer IAI right away due to my fakeclaim.

[I Am Innocent]

Yes, feel free to post the scum QT singer...(and thanks for a great job modding!!!)

First of all, I must apologize to cavjj, I just did not have the time to put into this endgame that I usually do. Usually in LyLo/MyLo, I go through the whole thread and post some pretty impressive analysis that is quite convincing from both town/scum angles. My undefeated record in MyLo/LyLo has come to an end as a result.

Instead of analyzing, I kept reiterating at endgame why I was not scum and DC finally saw through that. Good job.

Whilst you amazed me. You were my easy target for this game that I buddied up to and trusted to blindly follow me late game. Yet you did not blindly follow me and cost me the scum win, lol!

HA, you were the MVP. Not because you were always right, but because you posted like a mad machine and were a town leader. The early hammer D1 actually hurt us, because had I seen you lead town that much D1 the way you did D2, you would have been the lynch target N1. But you helping to create 60 pages made life too difficult for me to go post by post and produce my analysis, so kudos to you.

honestly, this was the group I would have picked for LyLo/MyLo, and the evidence for dicknose as scum was overwhelming. I thought I had a decent chance to win. Just got too busy / lazy to pull it all together.

Overall great participation and many newbies played a great game. Whilst, be more proactive though and vote a little more often in the future. dicknose, back up your posts with why your suspicious. cavjj, work on laying a bit more low D1, usually town will get themselves lynched D1 without scum having to force it.

As for my play, I always use meta both as town / scum.

Also at DC, your "winner post" was still accurate. From a town perspective, trying to force a vote on dicknose from cavjj D2 would make town feel uneasy D3. But something changed in that the two people who voted dicknose were now dead and confirmed town, so that extra information would lead town to believe that switch to dicknose D2 was legit and dicknose could therefore have been scum...

Also, be careful about thinking players that switch out are vanilla. We had two replacements this game, and one (NS) got a power role. Pretty good odds if you ask me...

Last thing, DC I would have loved if you claimed cop D4, cause NS said he was jailing you and you would have therefore gotten no results. More confusion = less confirmed town and good for me. I'm a big believer that town should not lie...it hurts way more than it helps.

Thanks again all and hope to see you all around when I am less busy (Novemberish?)!

[I Am Innocent]

We had a jailkeeper, which I knew because IAI

got no result N1

and I was certain we had no other PR's.

Wasn't it me who was blocked N1? Or was NS lying perhaps...?
If this is the case, then I can't believe IAI didn't figure out the JK is NS. Even I did.

This was actually confusing. I first got no result N1 which should have meant you were jailed by a JK (because I also submitted the NK and that went through so I was no jailed).

I communicated that in the thread secretly, and afterwards the mod told me DC was VT, which made me think that DC was not jailed. (Singer the first result appeared correct later on.)

So then I was unsure if we had a JK, but not could communicate that "correction" to my teammate, lol.

HA, I investigated NS N2, so it was actually very helpful that he came out D3, because had he not he would have been dead N3 and town would have had no confirmed innocents D4. I know it stunk for you, but I think NS did the right thing D3...

[DarkClaymore]

Last thing, DC I would have loved if you claimed cop D4, cause NS said he was jailing you and you would have therefore gotten no results. More confusion = less confirmed town and good for me. I'm a big believer that town should not lie...it hurts way more than it helps.

I could say it was on N2 or whatever. And that I never attacked you in order to not get killed by you at night
But I bet it still wouldn't have worked, considering you knew I'm VT.

You were my easy target for this game that I buddied up to and trusted to blindly follow me late game.

This is another something I found against you. That's why I originally attacked Abel when he said he is sure Dicknose is town. This kind of play is usually scum play. I forgot about the whole matter at first, but latter reread and remembered how many suspected Whilst because of YOU. I believe this is where my vote slowly started shifting toward you.

Also, be careful about thinking players that switch out are vanilla. We had two replacements this game, and one (NS) got a power role.

Yeah, but Dicknose made it clear he likes PRs. And Abel, as someone who knows him and was town - could easily point out if he's lying. It wasn't a WIN reason, but it still had decent chances to be true.

This was actually confusing. I first got no result N1 which should have meant you were jailed by a JK (because I also submitted the NK and that went through so I was no jailed).

But even if I were jailed, you'd still get your result normally (correct me if I'm wrong). The JK doesn't make the target immune to investigations as far as I know

[I Am Innocent]

"I could say it was on N2 or whatever. And that I never attacked you in order to not get killed by you at night"

Still does not make sense since D3 we had 1 free mislynch and 1 scum left, so a cop with a scum investigation on D3 is a guaranteed win (no need to wait until D4...)

From the Role's Post:

"If the jailed player is the target of a Kill that action will not resolve. Any other actions (Investigate or Protect) will resolve."

Looks like I was wrong...

[Honest Abel]

HA, I investigated NS N2, so it was actually very helpful that he came out D3, because had he not he would have been dead N3 and town would have had no confirmed innocents D4. I know it stunk for you, but I think NS did the right thing D3...

Sure, accidentally. We ended up being able to clear DC (which was a big help). If NS knew it was better to out himself because he deduced that scum knew there was a jailkeeper because they investigated someone and got no result, but also knew that they didn't directly investigate him because cavjj couldn't say who the JK was, then that was actually a good play. The lesser of two evils. I'm not confident that he'd have been able to deduce that. But in most cases, outing yourself as a power role is a mistake.

The thing that infuriated me, though, is that he accompanied his jail result with suspicion. He didn't say "I jailed Abel, it's more likely that he was targeted for being so protown than it is he's scum," which seemed like a more reasonable conclusion. Throwing heavy suspicion at someone right after basically confirming you're a protown PR is going to make people agree with you, and I don't think it was very smart to cast such a powerful stroke against someone when the jailkeeping result isn't very clear.