camn's temperamental - Mini 1232 - GAME OVER

[Zang]

So you thought it was scummy, but also not lynchworthy?
Something you find scummy means something you think makes a player more lynchworthy than others.

But he didn't say it was scummy though.

You're not scumhunting. You're tunneling me. There's a difference.

You are missing the point. You contradicted yourself by calling him scum but then implying that he is town.

this.
It's usually a good thing when other players have my thoughts in early game. little has developed so town mindets are often most similar at the start of the game as there are less things to consider

Now that I look at it, I'm surprised at how many games do have scum talk early in the game. However, there are still games i've played without it.

Is playing very cautiously. His fishy unvote was never explained and he has no vote atm.

I voted for fishy as part of RVS, I unvoted when it was over. I currently have no vote because I currently do not think anybody is scummy enough to get my vote.

[Twistedspoon]

you should still vote someone to apply pressure ans stuff

I can link you to games where mafioso refrained from voting D1. it's not an uncommon scum tactic

[Zang]

I can also link to you games where town refrained from voting on day 1.

I vote for somebody when I think they are scum. I don't believe that pressure is a very effective tool.

[BBmolla]

My approach deems that BBmola is the best lynch at the moment, but no need to rush things. We need to make this decisions carefully and weigh all the odds.

Replace "BBmola" with Fishy, and you have the reason I unvoted, congrats.

What is scum focusing on mislynching one player called if its not tunneling?
Well whatever it is, replace tunneling with that, because that's what I meant. I didn't know tunneling implied town.

[BBmolla]

My approach deems that BBmola is the best lynch at the moment, but no need to rush things. We need to make this decisions carefully and weigh all the odds.

Replace "BBmola" with Fishy, and you have the reason I unvoted, congrats.

EBWOP: Also, replace "the best lynch at the moment" with "possible scum."

[Johhog]

looking at this quote

His vote for Parama gives an actual reason (buddying), which he then immediately undermines by saying he's voting because Parama asked for a vote.

it's not undermining, it's an addition (hence why I said in retrospect)

conflict doesn't matter anyways; It's RVS. Who develops conflict over an RVS vote?

I agree with this, and Fishy's poor attempt at finding scum fails.

and the rest of your post, how do arrive at this below conclusion on fishy from this quote? The two seem contradictory

Parama and Fishy is most likely town, Zang and BBmolla is scumspects.

Um, yeah. His later posting seems town, as you should know by now I'm using gut as usual though. Fishy seems to be honest.

[Lurconis]

@Lurc, even if my post was about RVS and I didn't place my vote. What's your basis to make it voteworthy?

I didn't think your thinking on your vote was about RVS, your thinking about your vote before placing it suggest anything but RVS. I voted because I feel you contradicted your self by saying "I'm going to run the numbers" and then coming back and not voting. It seemed like you were trying to delay placing a vote to avoid having analysis on you so you could sort of sneak by.

As you said you didn't mean what I thought you meant so what did you mean?

I am off to the woods until Sunday, I may have an hour of connectivity tomorrow but if not back on Sunday.

[Sathoris]

That's weak reasoning. We were still in the RVS stage so any vote I'd place wouldn't get a second look. Running the numbers didn't mean using a rng to vote for someone as RVS, which I sometimes do. But to effectivly calculate which lynch would maximize the overall good of the game.

You apparently didn't think I was going to use RNG, which means you thought I was going to place a calculated vote. . . Inside the RVS? Yet you voted for me outside the RVS for what? Taking too long a time to place a calculated vote?

---

Your latest postings only reinforce my current take on you BBmolla. Altering other people's sentences about you to redirect onto someone you suspect. Your joindate suggest these (tiny on their own) scumtells are genuine. But that's dismissable in court as it were.

[Parama]

Consider me V/LA until 9/6. Thanks.

done

[Chair]

We still think that Zang is town. Still don't think Zang would be so blatant about lying. but meh. I personally don't like Zang's posting, but we'll stick with town for now.
Fishy definitely feels town.
Sathoris feels town.
TS feels town.
Lurconis feels scummy.

@sheeping BAAAAA. I like where our vote is still.

More details when implosion gets online and we have time to discuss.

-Misder

[PeregrineV]

Will read and stay caught up, but minimal posting over the labor day weekend.

Unovte: Haylen since it was RVS anyway (and was supposed to be Kayne)

[Fishythefish]

What is scum focusing on mislynching one player called if its not tunneling?Well whatever it is, replace tunneling with that, because that's what I meant. I didn't know tunneling implied town.

This doesn't address the problem, though. You said that Parama is so sure that you are scum that anything you say becomes a point against you in his eyes. That's something scum can fake, perhaps, but it's not something they can actually do. What you were accusing Parama of was exactly tunnelling, in a town way, so calling him scum without addressing that seems off to me.

[Sathoris]

You are missing the point. You contradicted yourself by calling him scum but then implying that he is town.

Please elaborate, BB never implied Parama is town.
If you're talking about the tunneling = town bit. Then please explain to me why you think only town tunnel.

Though if I'm so convinced in my mind that you're scum, it implies that I am legitimately scumhunting, which in turn implies I'm town. But you say I'm scum. So that term couldn't possibly apply to me, right? If I'm scum, I would be absolutely sure you were town, right? Why would I have to convince myself that you're scum, if I knew objectively that it wasn't true? Your train of logic only makes sense if you think I'm town, which you don't.

WIFOM, dismissable.

[Parama]

Though if I'm so convinced in my mind that you're scum, it implies that I am legitimately scumhunting, which in turn implies I'm town. But you say I'm scum. So that term couldn't possibly apply to me, right? If I'm scum, I would be absolutely sure you were town, right? Why would I have to convince myself that you're scum, if I knew objectively that it wasn't true? Your train of logic only makes sense if you think I'm town, which you don't.

WIFOM, dismissable.

go get sexually assaulted in a dark alley
this is never the right response
sathoris is actually a good candidate for rounding out my 3-man scumteam
though where has twisted disappeared to recently

[Sathoris]

That just wasn't a good argument. I won't let arguments like that be presented to lynch BBmolla even if he is the correct lynch.

[Twistedspoon]

though where has twisted disappeared to recently

*waves

I'm still here :3

[Haylen]

My internet crashed yesterday when I was trying to post here. Not cool.

Yesterday

Internet's been awful all day, sorry so I'll make this quick before it goes again.

Got some weird get reads off Parama during my read.
Why are Zang and Twistedspoon trying to outguess the mod and talk about something that is entirely irrelevant to finding scum

Fos both of them

. It distracts from the real purpose of the day thus is anti-town.
Johog might be using 'gut' to hide behind unexplained suspicions. Also anti-town. Find something in thread to back up your reads.

Urgh for the love of. I'll be back tomorrow with stuff.

BB

2 - Philosophy - If you were a cop and got a guilty on night one, would you out the guilty that day(not knowing if there is any protection of course) or would you try to get more scum before outing?

I'll counter that by asking why you wish to know? Scum could find the answer to this quite useful in at least 3 ways I can think of. I also think a better question would be to replace 'guilty' with 'innocent' if you insist on asking that. You also fail to take into account that the cop could be scum himself and have been redirected to his buddies.

Out of all the lurkers, why vote for Johhog?

Haylen: Do stuff.

People say this, it makes me want to do the opposite.

I forget the term, but it's you being so convinced I'm scum in your mind that you create things that aren't there to reinforce your view.

Inconsistancy. You're voting him, and it sounds here like you think/know he's town.

Conclusion:

Could be scum, need to keep an eye on him.

Chair

The only major thing I note about Chair is that he's coming up with all these reads, but isn't giving reasoning or evidence for them.

Wait. What the frick is this? Parama says he's scum and asks for help on a mislynch? And he COMPLIES?

Conclusion:

I don't know how I can't NOT find the scummy.

Unvote, Vote Chair

One or two more tomorrow, I'm working an 18 hr shift, don't expect much.

[Zang]

Please elaborate, BB never implied Parama is town.

He said this-

it's you being so convinced I'm scum in your mind

Why are Zang and Twistedspoon trying to outguess the mod and talk about something that is entirely irrelevant to finding scum Fos both of them. It distracts from the real purpose of the day thus is anti-town.

How am I trying to outguess the mod?

[Sathoris]

He said this-

it's you being so convinced I'm scum in your mind

I reiterate. Because that's no explanation.

[Johhog]

Johog might be using 'gut' to hide behind unexplained suspicions. Also anti-town. Find something in thread to back up your reads.

Anti-town? How is gut reads worse than reads backed by evidence, my gut reads tend to be as good as evidence backed reads.

Also, I always use gut as town and I claim to use gut as scum, so that's null. Ask Twisted.

[Zang]

He said this-

it's you being so convinced I'm scum in your mind

I reiterate. Because that's no explanation.

As Parama said, that quote implies that he thought parama was scumhunting and so town but he says that he thinks that parama is scum.

[Haylen]

No. No self meta.

Professor camn, please change the thread title <3

Note: I'm not calling you professor out of respect (although you know i respect you), I'm calling you it because it makes me feel like I got to Hogwarts.

[Johhog]

Yes. Self meta.

[BBmolla]

What is scum focusing on mislynching one player called if its not tunneling?Well whatever it is, replace tunneling with that, because that's what I meant. I didn't know tunneling implied town.

This doesn't address the problem, though. You said that Parama is so sure that you are scum that anything you say becomes a point against you in his eyes. That's something scum can fake, perhaps, but it's not something they can actually do. What you were accusing Parama of was exactly tunnelling, in a town way, so calling him scum without addressing that seems off to me.

It's called Doublethink.

"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....

To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them

, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed."

He knows he's scum, but he's most likely playing the mindset of "If I were town, who would seem scummy and how could I get everyone to think the same way?" as opposed to "I'm scum, I'm going to push on this guy." Town players play more to "I'm town, who is scummy and why? How have their recent posts changed or not changed my outlook on them?"

Unless it's part of their meta, most town players don't go out of their way to

make

a player look like scum. Those who do pick a target early in the day and construe everything they say in a way that seems scummy. I hate town players who do this, because it's anti town and counter productive.

Does the above sound like Parama's meta to anyone? I've never played with him so I wouldn't know. It's the only plausible explanation I can find.

[Twistedspoon]

Yes. Self meta.

self meta is bad as the player can be as selective as they want usually :/
that being said I don't find johog particularly scummy on meta. He does often use gut as a reason as town iirc.

It's called Doublethink.

that just struck me as an awesome name for a hydra

Does the above sound like Parama's meta to anyone? I've never played with him so I wouldn't know. It's the only plausible explanation I can find.

I always read parama as aggressive town. this game is no different really

in my 4 or so games with him I never remember actually lynching him though. The only times he died i remember with him were through a vig kill or his own scumbuddy killing him (lol)