camn's temperamental - Mini 1232 - GAME OVER

[kanyeknowsbest]

I guess this isnt a bad time to do some solid reteaching. Whether or not BBmolla is lying about being a namecop does not matter. He probably is a name cop. But that says absolutely nothing about his alignment. If you thought he had an exceptional win condition before you should still think he has an exceptional win condition. If you think he will be useful to us as a namecop with an exceptional win condition, what in the world would give you that idea? Even if he does not lie to us and gives us accurate results, what good does that accomplish? It is just as likely that scum would be able to use this information for gain as town would, and for him to share it with us he would have to disclose it in the thread here. At that point we might as well just mass name claim (don't do this, theres no point.)

Basically, everyone who just unvoted BBmolla because of his claim needs to explain exactly why they were prepared to lynch him before, but no longer think that he has an exceptional win condition. "Because he is a name cop" is not an acceptable answer on this pop quiz, unless you can also explain how this is useful in any way to town.

[Johhog]

UNVOTE: BBMolla
VOTE: Zang
Bandwagon GO!

[Fishythefish]

unvote

@Fishy - A name cop may be helpful to scum but that is such an easy role to confirm why would we continue to lynch him when we can use him and if as chair says he doesn't help we would know he is scum and would be a safe future lynch as opposed to a mislynch of a PR.
Seems a scum move to want to continue on a lynch of a confirmable PR.
VOTE: FishytheFish

my top two scum suspects were fishy and BB , seeing fishy's last post i guess only one of them might be scum . im not entirely convinced that BB's a town cop but since its easily confirmable im going to move on to the other scum .

UNVOTE

kanye has it right. The fact that BB is confirmable makes no difference because he's

not

confirmable as town. Tomorrow, we'll know (barring roleblocking etc.) that BB is a namecop. But we still won't know his alignment. Will you lynch him then? If BB is scum - and as far as I see the evidence there has not changed one jot - he'll have bought his life with one crappy rolename.

Your

best case

scenario for tomorrow is BB investigating someone, and telling us a rolename, and they confirm it. What is your plan for that scenario?

Basically, everyone who just unvoted BBmolla because of his claim needs to explain exactly why they were prepared to lynch him before, but no longer think that he has an exceptional win condition. "Because he is a name cop" is not an acceptable answer on this pop quiz, unless you can also explain how this is useful in any way to town.

This.

---

@RP: why am I one of your two top scum suspects? Can't find anything in your posting that suggests I'm scummy.
@Sath: same question to you still stands from here.

[RedPanda]

actually fishy the only reason i thought you were scum was cause of BB's interactions with you from the start. its more of a gut feeling that one of you are scum. i was actually more inclined to BB as scum and you as town. and you do provide valid points against BB, my inexperience didnt let me think about that.

[Johhog]

Oh, even if BBMolla is scum he will be forced to help us. Isn't that a good reason enough to keep him alive?

[kanyeknowsbest]

"Because he is a name cop" is not an acceptable answer on this pop quiz, unless you can also explain how this is useful in any way to town.

[Twistedspoon]

Fishy and Kanye have got the correct answer quite fast. Have a gold star.
But yes, Kanye is correct. Unless scum roles have explicitly anti-town role names there seems to be little use for a namecop, and it is even harder to conirm one

I was never on the BB wagon anyways. I have prefered a zang lynch over BB for some time now

Panda still looks suspect. Both his votes onto and off of the BB wagon look poor

[Fishythefish]

Oh, even if BBMolla is scum he will be forced to help us. Isn't that a good reason enough to keep him alive?

If BB is scum, how will he help us? Tomorrow, we'll know a name (if he doesn't want to claim roleblocked or investigating the dead). And so what? That probably won't help us significantly. Certainly not compared to lynching scum.

[RedPanda]

Fishy and Kanye have got the correct answer quite fast. Have a gold star.
But yes, Kanye is correct. Unless scum roles have explicitly anti-town role names there seems to be little use for a namecop, and it is even harder to conirm one

I was never on the BB wagon anyways. I have prefered a zang lynch over BB for some time now

Panda still looks suspect. Both his votes onto and off of the BB wagon look poor

how does my votes onto and off BB look poor? i was obviously pressuring BB with my vote on him and my unvote was because of his roleclaim and i did admit inexperience when fishy explained why BB's roleclaim didn't matter .

[Twistedspoon]

"In post 183,

i was obviously pressuring BB with my vote on him

not really. you said BB was "scum cracking under pressure" and then kept your vote on him to BB's L-1 which is more than a pressure vote
In post 183

unvote was because of his roleclaim and i did admit inexperience when fishy explained why BB's roleclaim didn't matter .

like kanye and fishy say, you can't unvote purely because of his claim.
and inexperience isn't a free pass anymore

[Sathoris]

I still think BBmolla or fishy is a safe lynch. Lurc is edging closer depending on his answer to one of my earlier posts.

What makes me a good (or "safe") lynch?

More safe than good. In an earlier quote here you referenced that the opening post of the mod told scum to stop daytalking. When in fact 'stop talking out of class' meant that people should start to abide by their role 'restriction'. I can't distinguish any such restriction in you and the fact that you didn't get that modquote makes me think you're mafia without a PM instructing you to talk in a way.

@Sathoris - Why would you think I assumed you meant RNG. Running the numbers is a common phrase people say when they are going to work something out. I took you saying that as meaning you thought you found something and were going to work it out before placing your vote. When you didn't vote it seemed like scum trying to avoid placing a vote while appearing to scum hunt.

Please read my earlier post again. Especially the 2nd paragraph and redo your post. This post is just a copy of the other one I already replied to with questions.

You're fast becoming my front runner!

[Sathoris]

I'm willing to let BBMolla live through the day if he 'investigates' Fishy and presents us with a name for his character.

[RedPanda]

i was obviously pressuring BB with my vote on him

not really. you said BB was "scum cracking under pressure" and then kept your vote on him to BB's L-1 which is more than a pressure vote

post 183unvote was because of his roleclaim and i did admit inexperience when fishy explained why BB's roleclaim didn't matter .

like kanye and fishy say, you can't unvote purely because of his claim.
and inexperience isn't a free pass anymore

have you been reading my posts ? BB is my top scum suspect and i voted him to add pressure on him. i dont understand where your going with this. ive played mafia irl but without all the added mechanics. the mafia cop thing is new to me and i didnt think about it too much and when fishy and kanye explained it it seemed rational to me and i agreed with it. what are you actually trying to say? please get to the point .

[Johhog]

"Because he is a name cop" is not an acceptable answer on this pop quiz, unless you can also explain how this is useful in any way to town.

[Sathoris]

Name cop seems useless as a mafiarole. He could of course be faking the true nature of his ability, he could be a name + role cop. But seeing as a name cop can verify townies and not help the mafia in any way I trust his claim. If it's a fake one, then well done and I'll congratulate you after the game.

UNVOTE: BBMolla

Now, Lurc or Fishy. . . Let's see how they respond first.

[Fishythefish]

Name cop seems useless as a mafiarole. He could of course be faking the true nature of his ability, he could be a name + role cop. But seeing as a name cop can verify townies and not help the mafia in any way I trust his claim. If it's a fake one, then well done and I'll congratulate you after the game.

We don't know that scum have scummy names, or that townies don't have scummy names. It's easily possible that a name cop could help scum - if PRs have PR-ish names. From what we know of the game, name cop could be helpful for scum, town, both or neither. Why do you think a name cop would help town identify scum? Why don't you think it would help scum identify PRs? These both seem massive leaps to me. Unless, I suppose, you are scum with a scummy rolename.

I still think BBmolla or fishy is a safe lynch. Lurc is edging closer depending on his answer to one of my earlier posts.

What makes me a good (or "safe") lynch?

More safe than good. In an earlier quote [url=http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3392420]here[/url,] you referenced that the opening post of the mod told scum to stop daytalking. When in fact 'stop talking out of class' meant that people should start to abide by their role 'restriction'. I can't distinguish any such restriction in you and the fact that you didn't get that modquote makes me think you're mafia without a PM instructing you to talk in a way.

What is the difference between safe and good?

Why do you think 'stop talking out of class' meant that? For me, the natural interpretation was 'stop talking elsewhere'. When I wrote about it I hadn't thought of the interpretation you put on it, but looking at it now it still seems much less likely. Regardless, my guess would be that scum also have something in their PM instructing them to talk in a way - I can't see why that would be a town only thing. Also, it seems a massive stretch to say 'you don't look like you are obeying any of the millions of possible post restrictions on your style'. Altogether this seems like an extremely weak reason to call me scum.

@RedPanda: you say you agree with me/kanye about BB's roleclaim (at least to some extent). Are you going to vote for him again then?

[Sathoris]

We don't know that scum have scummy names, or that townies don't have scummy names. It's easily possible that a name cop could help scum - if PRs have PR-ish names. From what we know of the game, name cop could be helpful for scum, town, both or neither. Why do you think a name cop would help town identify scum? Why don't you think it would help scum identify PRs? These both seem massive leaps to me. Unless, I suppose, you are scum with a scummy rolename.

I didn't say a namecop helped town identify scum. I said it helped town verify townies. (i.e. BBMolla calls you 'the entertainer' and you verify by saying that's indeed your name) Of course a certain amount of trust must always be present, but the mafia won't learn anything helpful. I can only guess at this stage, but if the role is truly alive and well then scum must have somewhat scummy sounding names or else the ability is useless.

Why do you think 'stop talking out of class' meant that? For me, the natural interpretation was 'stop talking elsewhere'. When I wrote about it I hadn't thought of the interpretation you put on it, but looking at it now it still seems much less likely. Regardless, my guess would be that scum also have something in their PM instructing them to talk in a way - I can't see why that would be a town only thing. Also, it seems a massive stretch to say 'you don't look like you are obeying any of the millions of possible post restrictions on your style'. Altogether this seems like an extremely weak reason to call me scum.

Because Camn announced before the game started that he would be introducing 'post restrictions' that you could follow to brighten the game. I'm trying to stick to mine and you obviously have no idea what I'm talking about. Which means I don't think you got one and you're not town.

And you say scum would also have something in their PM, which means everyone heard about the 'restriction'. Are you just not following yours?

Stop talking out of class clearly was meant for people to get into character for the game. 'Stop talking out of class' is a weird way to tell scum to stop talking. Which they know because the day started. And you would normally just say: Scum stop talking.

[Zang]

Haylen- Please answer my question.

I believe BB's claim but I agree that it does not make him town so I still consider him a null read. Can you claim your post restriction?

It seems fake because of his large experience, considering that so many games have pre-game talk.

I have already explained this.

Does anyone want to hammer?

Why are you so eager for someone to hammer? He didn't even claim yet.

UNVOTE: BBMolla
VOTE: Zang
Bandwagon GO!

Why are you voting for me?

In an earlier quote [url=http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3392420]here[/url,] you referenced that the opening post of the mod told scum to stop daytalking. When in fact 'stop talking out of class' meant that people should start to abide by their role 'restriction'

Why do you assume that? To me, class seems to be the game thread and so anybody talking out of class is talking out of the thread. Especially since the post restrictions aren't mandatory so the mod wouldn't need to order the town to use their restriction.

We don't know that scum have scummy names, or that townies don't have scummy names. It's easily possible that a name cop could help scum - if PRs have PR-ish names. From what we know of the game, name cop could be helpful for scum, town, both or neither. Why do you think a name cop would help town identify scum? Why don't you think it would help scum identify PRs? These both seem massive leaps to me. Unless, I suppose, you are scum with a scummy rolename.

But the name cop can be used to verify name claims.

Mod

can you clarify what you meant when you said “For anyone talking out of class: stop now!” ?

please. spare me your inanity.

[Sathoris]

Why do you assume that? To me, class seems to be the game thread and so anybody talking out of class is talking out of the thread. Especially since the post restrictions aren't mandatory so the mod wouldn't need to order the town to use their restriction.

Mod

can you clarify what you meant when you said “For anyone talking out of class: stop now!” ?

I suppose, I never read the first post all that well and only now see the Failed the exam header. It is a bit confusing, but I remain convinced Fishy has no post 'restriction'. Perhaps my method proves to be unfounded, but his latest reply seals it for me.

He doesn't have a post restriction and arguing that scum also get a post 'restriction' to downplay the idea that no post 'restriction' is scum

[BBmolla]

I see three pathways from the current point.

A.

I get lynched today, preventing other PRs to be outed and confirming my town status.

B.

You tell me who to check, I get a report for you, then I be lynched to confirm my town status.

C.

You keep me alive.

I think the most logical course of action is B. However, this is dependent on whether the town believes characters are relevent to roles or not. Otherwise probably A would benefit us the most in this situation.
My preferred would be C of course, but I can understand the current circumstance from your point of view and can understand why that's not a plausible path.

I think this daytalk stuff is pretty silly.

@Zang: It has to do with my character.

[Fishythefish]

I didn't say a namecop helped town identify scum. I said it helped town verify townies. (i.e. BBMolla calls you 'the entertainer' and you verify by saying that's indeed your name) Of course a certain amount of trust must always be present, but the mafia won't learn anything helpful. I can only guess at this stage, but if the role is truly alive and well then scum must have somewhat scummy sounding names or else the ability is useless.

To be clear: do you think that BB's claim makes him more likely town than before? If so, why don't you think name cop is a likely scum role?

My position is that namecop can be scum as easily as it can be town, so it doesn't affect my read on BB. Knowing some names probably wouldn't help us significantly, so I see no reason to leave him alive to get reports. It's just not worth the reduced chance of lynching scum. He was the right lynch before he claimed, and he's still the right lynch now.

Read 190 again. It's totally clear that I knew what you were talking about on the subject of post restrictions, and just thought your interpretation of "stop talking out of class" was weird/wrong.

[Johhog]

Post #194 is town though.

[Fishythefish]

194 is pretty null for me. For scumBB, winning an extra day is a big win, and he can always argue again tomorrow. 194 is a natural "look at me I'm being protown about my own death" post for scum.

[BBmolla]

194 is pretty null for me. For scumBB, winning an extra day is a big win, and he can always argue again tomorrow. 194 is a natural "look at me I'm being protown about my own death" post for scum.

Even if I was scum, how would living an extra day benefit me at all?

And you can see how well I argue, what makes you think I could argue my way out of a lynch?

That post was not made to gain townpoints the post was made to decide which path we are going to take. Do we want to stop anyone more from being outed or do we want a report?

[Johhog]

...but that post was kinda scummy. Yeah BB, HOW on EARTH could it benefit you as scum to live another day. And regarding line 2, you're basically thinking about trying to argue against your lynch tomorrow then?