So... I did a reread. And it turns out I was wrong. About pretty much everything. Sorry about that.
TL;DR:
Read the section on RedPanda if you want to know who to vote for. Parama's case on BB is actually pretty weak. Sath-kanye is town vs. town. Scum are currently lurking their way through an interesting period of the game. If you're the mod, prod Haylen.
Johhog
I don't much like his vote on BB. He says that BB voting me and then unvoting me is scummy, but I don't really see why he thinks that. He doesn't explain why he doesn't buy BB's explanation (ie. vote on me not that serious, unvoted because my wagon was near a lynch). I dislike his play after BB's claim. He moves on to Zang, saying that even if BB is scum he will be forced to help us. But doesn't bother responding to any of the arguments on either side of that issue, except to say that "Sath is coming out more town than kanye in their discussion". Which is unexplained, and rather convenient as Sath is the person he agrees with. I don't see anything he's said since BB's claim which explains why he thinks BB is town. And I don't think "scum would have to help us" is a plausible reason to want BB alive.
Parama
His original point on BB (unvoting me and then voting randomly) makes sence, but is not a massively exciting point. I can see BBtown thinking my wagon was too near a lynch for him to be comfortable with. I don't think taking off a pressure vote at that stage is a good move for town, but I don't think it's implausible either. The next round of his points on BB is... pretty meh actually. BB's response is basically "I wasn't ready for a fishy lynch, and I was scared of a lynch happening, so I unvoted". Parama never really addresses why he thinks this is unlikely, and the argument fast descends into "I so found the true and scummy motivation for your post" vs. "You're so misrepping my post". That takes us up to 115, where it gets a bit more interesting. Then Parama brings in a new argument - because BB is saying
a) Parama is so convinced BB is scum he makes up things that aren't there to reinforce his point of view.
b) Parama is scum.
That looked like a better point for me - saying Parama is convinced that BB is scum definitely implies he believes it. But actually, I rather overlooked something. It's worth quoting the BB post in question in full:
In post 114, BBmolla wrote:Parama I am town and this is a mislynch. There is literally nothing I could possibly do that you won't construe in some sort of scum fashion, and that is you painting me as scum.
I forget the term, but it's you being so convinced I'm scum in your mind that you create things that aren't there to reinforce your view.
Also, you literally just admitted you misrepped me to enforce my lynch. [sarcasm]Such a town move right there[/sarcasm].
If you look at the bolded, you get more or less what Parama is saying - it implies that Parama is convinced BB is scum, and hence town. But taken with the previous sentence, the meaning changes quite a lot - it now reads more like BB is saying that Parama is deliberately looking for the bad things in BB's posts to fit an image of BBscum. The bolded isn't a great expression of this, but Parama does rather take it out of context.
Hmmm. Parama's attacks are looking quite dirty to me, actually. He goes for BB's responses in a way that doesn't seem to be evaluating them honestly.
His reaction to the claim is fine.
Haylen
@mod:
please prod Haylen.
BBmolla
The post on Doublethink is the one that's really off for me. I don't see how BB reads Parama as "scum who manages to believes BB is scum while knowing it's false" rather than "town who believes BB is scum". The only decent interpretation I can put on it is a really convoluted way of saying "Parama is scum trying to get me lynched, and so he attacks anything I do as scummy". But that just isn't what it says.
What else? Well, I felt he downplayed the seriousness of his vote on me after he unvoted. He hasn't done much except defend himself, but in a game which is all about your wagon that's fair enough. His post claim play seems... pretty solidly protown. It's not so hard for scum to do a "look at me I'm all protown about getting lynched" act, but this is still a pretty convincing example of it for me. Generally, BB's play isn't nearly as bad as I thought it was.
Chair
Chair doesn't do much. Votes BB, declares they're sheeping. Misder's reaction to the claim isn't one I like - like Johhog, it falls into the category of "you don't have any more reason than before to think BB is town". Saying his role is useful is
such
an incomplete answer to "should we lynch him". And he really doesn't participate in the conversation about this. implosion's last post also says nothing about the claim - in fact he hasn't said anything about BB at all, which is odd considering BB's the focus of this game thus far. What is in his last post is a few disconnected but reasonable things to say. I want to know who each of them thinks is scum and why.
kanyeknowsbest
He's been shouting the right answer since the claim, but that's easy and fun (I should know, I've been doing it too). Probably also a bit townish - scum probably aren't gunning for a name cop's lynch whatever alignment he is. More generally, he's thought much the same thoughts as me about the game. Guessing he's town.
@kanye: why is Sath scum?
PeregrineV
I like his recent catchup post, but he hasn't done much else. His unvote for BB is because BB is "potentially valuable", but he admits himself he doesn't really see the value.
RedPanda
This is one scummy Panda. Jumps on a large wagon with the
incredibly
vague statement that BB is scum cracking under pressure. He gives some insight into why here:
In post 119, RedPanda wrote:Just cause you unvoted to prevent a ML doesnt mean your not scum. it could be that you targeted your scumbuddy at the start to make it look like you guys arent buddies and then unvoted when you thought he might be in danger. also when the votes started coming to you, you use a bet on paramas mother's life which i think is really scummy. what did you expect him to reply? hes obviously not going to bet on it. And my Really Broad statement was to be applied to what i quoted. its a pity why you cant understand why that statement seems that way.
So the first two sentences are a misunderstanding of someone else's point against BB. The way Panda mangles it, he winds up saying that unvoting me isn't townish because it might have been a bus originally. Which... is true, I suppose. But it doesn't remotely say why unvoting me is scummy. And the
actual
point Parama had made was that unvoting me was scummy because BB got cold feet about a mislynch. This incompetent parroting is mega scummy. Then he says that betting Parama's mother is really scummy - but why? It's clear that BB means "are you very sure I'm scum?". And why's that a scummy question? Panda doesn't share that with us. It's
just
the kind of thing I can see wagonning scum pick on - it feels somehow like it's an unfair and scummy question for BB to ask, but when you think about it it actually isn't.
After BB's claim, he unvotes because BB is confirmable, and says that BB and I were his top suspects. He then agrees with me that actually it makes no sense to unvote someone because their role is confirmable. And backtracks massively, saying:
In post 178, RedPanda wrote:actually fishy the only reason i thought you were scum was cause of BB's interactions with you from the start. its more of a gut feeling that one of you are scum. i was actually more inclined to BB as scum and you as town. and you do provide valid points against BB, my inexperience didnt let me think about that.
This seems to say that he had a feeling that one of BB and I was scum. And that's it's BB. Which is pretty much in direct conflict with his previous post. Reads like, seeing my explanation, he realises that he's safe on the BB wagon, and drops his suspicion on me as unnecessary. He's also now twice explained his vote on BB by saying he voted to pressure him - and still not adequately explained his actual vote.
Panda looks to me like a shameless bandwagonner. It doesn't feel like he cares much about whether BB is scum. Scummy.
fishythefish
Has his name miscapitalised in the opening post. Extrememly townish.
Zang
Dropped an early towntell - I think his misunderstanding of the scum role PM is unlikely from scum. Since then... he's made decent points, but not really committed to anything. Makes him pretty hard to read.
Lurconis
Of all the wrong people about BB's claim Lurc comes off pretty well. Even if I think his arguments make no sense, it reads like he is trying to persuade people of something he believes. His votes have been pretty meh. Don't really know who he thinks is scum.
twistedspoon
Don't really like his response to BB's wagon. Very fence sitting:
In post 123, Twistedspoon wrote:in post 76: the point on panda is well made. If BB flips town then panda needs a serious looking at for a very opportunistic and badly explained vote. However the newbie mindet is to sheep the biggest wagons, so this must also be considered.in this post BB asks me my opinions on his wagon. I'd say some of the votes are shaky. Parma makes the best case, but chair and panda's votes are blatant sheeping. Not scumtells in themselves, especially since chair was asked to sheep, but they should be considered if you flip townKanye's vote on you was sound i thought. you don't have to be completely sure a player is scum in RVS to vote them and unvoting or not voting in RVS is usually scum playing it safe imho.In conclusion I think your wagon will certainly have scum on it if you flip town. Most likely not parama or kanye though.
Feels like he thinks the BB wagon is shaky, and identifies particular people on it with weak votes, but doesn't really care. He does follow up a bit on Panda, which helps this quite a lot.
Sathoris
Seems like town. In his arguments with me and kanye about me post restriction (or potential lack thereof) and about BB's claim, I think he believes what he says. Particularly in the former - he seemed very like who think they've got a good catch. Which is especially noteworthy because if (as is likely) scum do have post restrictions, it's not a catch scum would think of.
Revision to BB
Wow! All the other people I think are scummy attacked BB. He gets some townpoints for that.
So, with lists roughly reflecting order in scummy-townie:
Very Scummy
Panda
Johhog
Quite Scummy
Chair
Parama
Neutral
BB
twistedsoon
Haylen
Lurconis
Peregrine
Quite Townish
Zang
Town
Sathoris
kanye
Clearly, this calls for a change in vote. I think a
UNVOTE:
VOTE: RedPanda
is in order.
