Back to the Future Mafia - Over: Was Hill Valley saved?

[Maruchan]

I never implied that it meant town.

But in these two quotes you "imply" that it is unique to the town and say providing this information would help the scum:

I don't. I just don't want to be the person the town says "

YOU IDIOT YOU JUST TOLD SCUM THAT WE ALL HAVE MULTIPLE ROLES

" to. So I didn't want to ask if everyone else had multiple roles. However, Antifinity pointed it out without being asked, so I like him. ^_^

There is nothing impossible about it, however Antifinity

I believe has a role PM similar to mine in which we change roels with the time period

. If yours is different, please enlighten us or not as you see fit.

No,I implied that it COULD be unique to the town, which is why I didn't want to mention it, in case it WAS unique to the town

[Maruchan]

I see you still haven’t provided me a scum motivation for Maru as scum asking whether a Mass Name Claim would be useful in post 155. Again, saying it scummy without details of Why is scumtastic.

I take it you didn't notice me providing examples of theme games based on books/movies where main characters were power roles. I'd say attempting to determine power roles provides all the scum motivation you could want.

And then I provided my one-completed-game example where the MAIN CHARACTER was a VT

[MagnaofIllusion]

This thread needs more input from

Starbuck

and

Snake

. Hop to it slackers.

--

I take it you didn't notice me providing examples of theme games based on books/movies where main characters were power roles. I'd say attempting to determine power roles provides all the scum motivation you could want.

Aha .. your reasoning is Rolefishing. I wanted to see you actually commit to that stance as opposed to dancing around it like it was a sombrero. Bzzzt. Try again.

Day 1 unsolicited rolefishing isn’t something scum do 99% of the time. Please go find me games where scum out the blue said “Hey, let’s Massclaim” early Day 1. It doesn’t happen.

What does happen? Town makes a comment that can be labelled as 'role-fishing' and get pushed for it. Remind me to mention [REDACTED] as the most recent example I have seen of this.

You still can sit in the scum pool LC. Take some suntan lotion with you.

[LordChronos]

I see you still haven’t provided me a scum motivation for Maru as scum asking whether a Mass Name Claim would be useful in post 155. Again, saying it scummy without details of Why is scumtastic.

I take it you didn't notice me providing examples of theme games based on books/movies where main characters were power roles. I'd say attempting to determine power roles provides all the scum motivation you could want.

And then I provided my one-completed-game example where the MAIN CHARACTER was a VT

And was Bean a VT? Compare his relative importance to the story to say that of Vlad, who was a VT. Also, you may notice that while I acknowledged that star characters who are non magical/superhero are often VT, their immediate supporting characters are usually not.

@MoI

I hadn't explicitly said I thought it was rolefishing cause I figured that would an extreme case of stating the obvious. Why else would anyone possibly think asking about a claim/massclaim was scummy?

You say Day 1 unsolicited rolefishing isn't something scum do 99% of the time. I say it isn't something town does often either. But if you could define what you mean by unsolicited rolefishing, that'd be great. And please go find me games where town out of the blue said "Hey, let's Massclaim" early Day 1.

What, in your opinion, is the difference between scum rolefishing and town comment which is then represented as rolefishing?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI

I hadn't explicitly said I thought it was rolefishing cause I figured that would an extreme case of stating the obvious. Why else would anyone possibly think asking about a claim/massclaim was scummy?

You say Day 1 unsolicited rolefishing isn't something scum do 99% of the time. I say it isn't something town does often either. But if you could define what you mean by unsolicited rolefishing, that'd be great. And please go find me games where town out of the blue said "Hey, let's Massclaim" early Day 1.

What, in your opinion, is the difference between scum rolefishing and town comment which is then represented as rolefishing?

1. That's the point ... it's not scummy. Especially when said person didn't even say "Hey we should mass-claim" but asked if it was a good idea

2. You can say that all you want ... you'd be wrong. Actions Day 1 that are labelled Role-fishing come overwhelmingly from Town (in normal games, mind you ... games with odd mechanics are outliers for purposes of this discussion IMO). Scum are not looking to get on the radar with their early play. That's pure Mafia 101. That lurking is a common tactic for scum when they can get away with it proves this point.

What I am calling 'Unsolicted Rolefishing' - when a player makes a comment under no pressure as Maru did this game. I've got another perfect example in [REDACTED]. Scum rolefish via the claims process, either by pushing Town for one via wagons or being under pressure and trying to draw out an important Town PR (like Cop for example).

I'll make you a deal - you find me a couple of games where scum made unsolicited statements early Day 1 correctly that were attacked as Rolefishing correctly (aka the person was scum) and then I'll go find you a bunch of games where accusations of Rolefishing early Day 1 were pointed directly at Town.

I hope I've explained the difference for you.

How's the water in the scum pool today?

[Maruchan]

And was Bean a VT? Compare his relative importance to the story to say that of Vlad, who was a VT. Also, you may notice that while I acknowledged that star characters who are non magical/superhero are often VT, their immediate supporting characters are usually not.

And please go find me games where town out of the blue said "Hey, let's Massclaim" early Day 1

I don't know what Bean was, I honestly didn't pay attention, and once again, I did not know this. As Ender's Game was the first themed-game I ever played, I was not sure if it was the norm to make lead-characters VTs and their backups the PRs, or if Ender's Game was unique in that respect.

I feel like I am repeating myself, haven't I said this before? And if so why are we going in circles?

And please go find me games where scum out of the blue said "Hey, let's Massclaim" early Day 1.

[Maruchan]

EBWOP I see MoI has already pulled the "no u" argument for me on finding scum-rolefishing

[PeregrineV]

---

Peregrine's blatant copying of Shadow is noted.

Yes, I agreed with the bulk of it.

Also noted is the fact that he hasn't read Magna's posts.

I did and my response was "But 21 of your 44 post quotes are LordChronos", but I deleted it as it seemed argumentative and not game relevant, even if true.

@Anti- I see your thought about scum jumping off of the Maru wagon, but by the same token town could read Maru's response and decide he's town enough to unvote. So, using your logic you are correct, but immediate logic would be that scum would stay on a town wagon, and even that is making the assumption Maru is town, so your logic is doubly hard to get.
I'll keep my vote on you for now, but am looking for the post-holiday activity spike.

This post is also wavering and feels like he's trying to give himself an excuse to jump off the wagon later. He starts off saying that he sees what Anti is thinking, but then says that he doesn't get his logic. Then he says he'll keep voting Anti for now, but is looking for more activity (implying he will unvote him with more activity.) Doesn't make sense from a town perspective.

I don't need an excuse. If I feel that Anti is more town than not, or someone is more likely scum, I will unvote Anti.
And technically I said his logic was complex and not instinctive, not that I didn't get it. If I didn't get it I would ask for clarification.
More activity will give me a better read on Anti, and town's job is to find and differentiate town from scum.

[Shadow Dancer]

Magna is right, Chronos is... well, what is he, does he even have a point... Maru wasn't rolefishing, at least not with that question, "let's mass claim" is an ill-willed misrepresentation of it though.

@Per: But obviously "21/44 quotes are from Chronos" seemed noteworthy enough for you at first to write it down. So what does that tell you? And why did you prefer delete it for irrelevance reasons instead of posting something relevant?

[PeregrineV]

Magna is right, Chronos is... well, what is he, does he even have a point... Maru wasn't rolefishing, at least not with that question, "let's mass claim" is an ill-willed misrepresentation of it though.

@Per: But obviously "21/44 quotes are from Chronos" seemed noteworthy enough for you at first to write it down. So what does that tell you? And why did you prefer delete it for irrelevance reasons instead of posting something relevant?

That sometimes I like to argue for the sake of arguing, but since I know it's not relevant, I stopped myself from responding to this:

Um whut? Do you seriously look at my posts and only see me addressing LC?

No other activity had taken place that needed further commenting from the point of MoI's post until my next post. I'm not going to spam junk to the thread.

[LordChronos]

Magna is right, Chronos is... well, what is he, does he even have a point... Maru wasn't rolefishing, at least not with that question, "let's mass claim" is an ill-willed misrepresentation of it though.

@Per: But obviously "21/44 quotes are from Chronos" seemed noteworthy enough for you at first to write it down. So what does that tell you? And why did you prefer delete it for irrelevance reasons instead of posting something relevant?

Shadow, I was intentionally copying MoIs phrasing in my request for him to find a game where town said "Let's mass claim." Check out his post directly above the one where I said that.

[Starbuck]

Checking in. I spent my weekend in Atlanta at Dragon*Con, hence my silence.

I'll be catching up here in a little while.

[Dekes]

D1 Vote count #7

Antifinity

(L-1) - kiwieagle, MagnaofIllusion, PeregrineV, xvart, havingfitz, Shadow Dancer

Maruchan

(L-5): Starbuck, LordChronos

PeregrineV

(L-5): SnakePlissken, ooba

Shadow Dancer

(L-6): Maruchan

LordChronos

(L-6): vezokpiraka

kiwieagle

(L-6): Antifinity

Not voting (0)

-

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Deadline expires in (expired on 2011-09-13 19:30:00)

V/LAs:

none

Antifinity prodded.

[Antifinity]

48 hours? Minis are a lot faster paced than large themed games. Anyway, since kiwiscum has made 1 post "Hi" that wasn't attacking me, I don't really have much analysis on him, and since he is the only player I think is definitely scummy, I'm just gonna go ahead and leave my vote on him.

[PeregrineV]

48 hours? Minis are a lot faster paced than large themed games. Anyway, since kiwiscum has made 1 post "Hi" that wasn't attacking me, I don't really have much analysis on him, and since he is the only player I think is definitely scummy, I'm just gonna go ahead and leave my vote on him.

Is there anything else you would like to add?

Something like "Holy cow 6 votes on me, I better respond to the cases against me!"

Anything?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I did and my response was "But 21 of your 44 post quotes are LordChronos", but I deleted it as it seemed argumentative and not game relevant, even if true.

Here’s the thing – when LC is active and one of my top suspects he is more likely to receive scrutiny than others. That doesn’t mean I am ignoring everyone else.

--

Shadow, I was intentionally copying MoIs phrasing in my request for him to find a game where town said "Let's mass claim." Check out his post directly above the one where I said that.

Look at this tap-dancing. For the record – you’ve been the one from the start saying that Maru was scummy for ‘asking for a mass name claim’. Some select quotes to support that (emphasis added) –

And I don't accept that you meant never on this site. There is absolutely no reason to phrase it the way you did to

explain your scummy request for a nameclaim

when you have played at least one game with names.

1. I'd say it is

scummy to suggest a nameclaim this early, yes.

It can help scum out by suggesting who is more likely to be a powerful role. (Yeah, I know, major characters aren't always more powerful. Still more likely to be powerful than the most minor of minor characters.)

So clearly you’ve said on multiple occasions that Maru was suggesting / requesting a name-claim. I’ve already called you out on that. And when Shadow did suddenly you are trying to suggest that you were only using the language I did. Scummy.

In fact …

UNVOTE: Antifinity
VOTE: LC

I still can see Anti as scum given his play but want to make sure Starbuck, Snake and Kiwi have time to provide content. Otherwise they can be Vigged with impunity.

@Anti

– Consider my vote still on you. If anyone else votes for you immediately claim because I will hammer you.

--

Checking in. I spent my weekend in Atlanta at Dragon*Con, hence my silence.

I'll be catching up here in a little while.

A little while seems to be stretching into much longer than it needs to be. Your requested V/LA was supposed to end Tuesday. It’s Thursday.

Why is your vote still on Maru?
Who is scum?

You need to provide more content than your ISO shows.

[vezokpiraka]

Hmm.

I'm getting bad vibes from MoI and that is a first.

MoI: Why do you consider antifinity scummy?

[Shadow Dancer]

@Vezo: Why do you wait to ask MoI about Anti until he leaves that waggon?!
Why don't you read the thread, MoI was (and generally is) very vocal about his cases.

unvote. vote Chronos

Until Anti waggon grows again pressure needs to go where is's deserved.

[Dekes]

kiwieagle

and

ooba

(for the second time already) prodded.

[kiwieagle]

48 hours? Minis are a lot faster paced than large themed games. Anyway, since kiwiscum has made 1 post "Hi" that wasn't attacking me, I don't really have much analysis on him, and since he is the only player I think is definitely scummy, I'm just gonna go ahead and leave my vote on him.

so what your saying is that

You cant analyze me, but for some weird ass reason you think im scum (oh yeah I just remembered. you think im scum because I think your scum. Blatant OMGUS)

[kiwieagle]

ATTENTION - Antifinity is at L-1. If you intend to vote for him you

MUST

offer him the chance to properly claim before doing so as is proper Town play. Failure to do so will result in swift and brutal consequences. Thank you for your attention.

Also,

KIWI - You seem to be able to miss things specifically directed at you. This is in annoying Bold and Italics so you can't possibly miss it.

Who is scum beside Anti? You've commented on absolutely no-one else but him in any meaningful way (aside from calling Maru Town).

Yeah, gonna do a quick reread

[kiwieagle]

I also find vezo scummy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I also find vezo scummy.

Reasons and more than 1 liners posts are awesome. You should try them!!!!!

[kiwieagle]

So. What is the plan today?

Useless fluff (like why would you even need to ask thus question?)

There is nothing impossible about it, however Antifinity I believe has a role PM similar to mine in which we change roels with the time period. If yours is different, please enlighten us or not as you see fit.

I would caution against assuming that shifting roles are indication of town alignment. I would assume that the same mechanics that might alter town roles may also alter scum roles; similar to the Color Concentration mafia mechanic.

I never implied that it meant town.

I think every role has the same thing.
Also the at the end is forced. Explain why you used it please.

Another useless question

I'm not sure what to make of it right now.

Probably just a town fight.

Fencing

Lord Chronos: Why the vote on me? Please explain with your own words.

He votes her (RVS) and doesnt explain.

She does the same thing.

and suddenly shes asking why he voted her.

another useless question.






So vezopiraka ISO is full of fluff and useless questions.

[havingfitz]

I don't agree with the rationale for voting LC. MoI's reason for voting LC was previously addressed adequately by LC IMO.

Shadow's vote on LC seems misplaced. He [SD] actually gave better rationale for voting LC in the post where he [SD] voted Anti. But instead SD hops off Anti (who I assume he still suspects) and piggybacks on MoI's weak LC vote.

@SD...why the unvote on Anti? You had the L-2 on Anti but you need it to grow again before you support it again? Does that mean you want to place him at L-1 or hammer him if you are going to vote him again?

Still like my vote on Anti.