Open 334: Friends and Enemies in Icetown (Town Win)

[lane0168]

Sorry, I've been distracted a lot these past few days. Anyways, I've read up on everything and have decided on a few things.
1. The non-newbie games are a lot more text heavy. (something I like, mind you)
2. ...

I would just like to make a list, to sum up this wall post, for future reference, as to the currently most active players in order of most activity to least activity.

Jason- 8 posts thus far
Princess Kiwi- 5 posts (including this one) thus far
Paraffin- 4 posts thus far
smear- 3 posts thus far
AlgorixalTyphoon- 3 posts thus far
Zachrules- 2 posts thus far
Antb- 2 posts thus far
malpascp- 2 posts thus far
descent- one post thus far
ceonn- one post thus far
ThAdmiral- one post thus far
GMan- one post thus far
Princesskdw- zero posts thus far

I find it strange how ceonn, and ThAdmiral only made entry posts, without answering the RQS (despite being just a few posts prior), or providing insight as to the going-ons of the game. Shows that they haven't really read the game, and are 'just' making appearances to avoid the lurking suspicion? Hmmm...

That is rather accurate of you, to a point. I admit I didn't eye-ball the thread much before making my post as I was short on time before. I assure you though, I have time now, and will get right to those questions now.

1. Alaska

2. I prefer them.

3. Town. It's much more relaxed that way, as having power makes me too nervous to make a good move, and at times before when I've been mafia I again get too nervous to make a clear night kill, much less keep myself from making a mistake.

this was 4 days ago? ceonn's second post? where is ceonn?

anyways, i can't get into shit right now. that was a long ass 5 pages. i'll be much more active than princesskdw (who was regular town btw) with posts coming everyday. tomorrow i'll do some iso's, skim some shit and do a review, i just can't start into it now. not for lack of time, just for this burning in my eyes.

i'll try and have more reasoning tomorrow, but here are first impressions.
i didnt like para at first. I took it as an rvs vote when he said we were out of rvs. but after my reading, i feel better about him.

very confident that princess kiwi is town.

i dont like smear, the unvote vote? seems like he was caught. the unvote would be looked at alone, being so quick, but the unvote vote, thats a whole new level.

malpascp? why havent you unvoted yourself yet?

town vibes from jason, not so much his early game, but more recently.

same with gman, besides the early game and recently part

algor, zachrulez, descent, havent figured out how to read his posts.

one apology was for unconciously starting to skim kiwis posts there at the end after i had a town read. i need to go back and read her and paraffins discussion a lot more closely tomorrow.

vote:ceonn

[Smear]

Smear, if you truly believe about Zach keep pressing your case on him. It is any player's responsibility to convince town of who they want lynched and why, even scum. Scum can't win without town, and in order for town to win, town has to work together. If you think the Zach case is legit then post your entire case, and why you find him scummy, and ask questions to him.

I had trouble deciding between Zach and Malpasc anyway, and Zach has cleared his name slightly by posting quite a bit recently(this is only relevant because what he was posting was actually useful material, rather than just coasting). Malpasc now seems more like scum than ever.

[paraffin]

@mod: you missed my vote on mal

[IceGuy]

Corrected Vote Count

Smear (1): AntB

malpascp (5): malpascp, Princess Kiwi, Zachrulez, Smear, paraffin

Princess Kiwi (1): ThAdmiral
paraffin (3): jasonT1981, GMan, AlgoricalTyphoon

Not voting (3): Descent, ceonn, lane0168

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is September 23rd, 8 p.m. CEST.

[lane0168]

Well I voted ceonn.

[Princess Kiwi]

Sorry I wasn't on today, I got asked to stay until 9 at work. I'll make posts tomorrow, and try to post the post #s instead of specific quotes, that way I can keep it as concise as possible. I'll try working harder on the not-posting-huge-WoT so much thing, just bare with me as my English essay 1st drafts are anywhere from 350-1233 words (literally, 1233 was my lengthiest). I have school in the morning, and homework, and a psychology test to study for tomorrow: So do not expect a post from me during the day. If you see me 'actively lurking', it is because I will be reviewing the thread and working on my post. But expect more content from me as of tomorrow, although I'll post this in advance:

V/LA: Monday 9-12 => Tuesday 9-13, due to a test.

[Descent]

Sorry guys, haven't been around or even wanting to post as of late, let me get a read through done over the night and get something up. Once again, I apologize.

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry for the lack of posting recently. I've been busy with irl stuff.

Uuum, did you miss my list where I posted my reads? I -gave- townie reads, and I gave neutral reads. That's the main thing I want to point out right now before I read the rest of your post.

Well to be precise you just gave a list of people from scum to town, and then your scum reads. But that's nitpicking.

Yes, I do realize that. I'll admit that I did vote for Jason for bandwagonning, and then later went back and saw that it looked a lot like buddying, which I was possibly thinking of at the time, it's just that my posts aren't great when rushed. So yeah, I'll admit, I made the post in a rushed manner, and went back later to review it and saw that it looked like buddying. And yeah, I made a mistake on my timeline, as well as my wording. I'll probably be the first to admit it was a mistake, while you would probably call it scummy.

Look it might well have been a mistake, but I couldn't have known that so of course I was going to think it was scummy. And the changing of your story didn't help.

No, I didn't state that by agreeing with each other you must be buddying scum. I stated that it's scummy how the both of you are using

the same attack

on me, with AlgoricalTy having posted it first. I'll even show an example of buddying, that's been quoted before:

Congrats to altyph for the first proper post in this game, and it is actually a good one!

Which, this quote happened to be Algorical's attack on me, of which you used the same thing 'why didn't you just ask them instead of voting them', and then proceeded to say I was full of fluff. That was what appeared to be buddying to me.

I see where you are coming from, but the fact that we were using the same attack isn't a point against us, more than it is a point

for

the attack. Obviously it had merit if both of us thought it was worth pursuing.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm going to quote myself here because this seems to have been missed:

I fail to see your point. GMan didn't come out and say he wasn't going to bother reading a post.

Those walls... TL;DR. Not even joking.

I read this as doing exactly that.

"When I unvoted, my thought was that putting it so close to a lynch was ridiculous, because mafia could simply jump in.
But now that I think about, if anyone does hammer they're almost certainly scum."

That was my reasoning. I'll admit I panicked, I was worried about mafia being able to lynch paraffin if he is town, since they of course would know, but then I realized that they couldn't lynch him, because anyone who hammers at that stage would immediately get lynched if Para flips townie....
what more can I say?

I can't really say if Paraffin is scum. There are some lurkers(noticeably malpascp, who posted in another two threads but not this one) who I am also suspicious of, and more so than Paraffin. Still, it makes sense to keep the pressure on him until we a. get concrete evidence against him b. find a convincing case on anyone else

I don't like this at all. You have suspects you are more suspicious of but you want to keep your vote on paraffin? You want to keep your vote on "until we get concrete evidence"? And when you say "we" who are you talking about, because I have to say it doesn't look like you are trying too hard to find "a convincing case on anyone else".
Furthermore there seems to be a pretty big disconnect in what you are saying: you believe paraffin is scum, but you are also worried mafia will hammer him?

What I'm thinking: smear is scum and knows paraffin is town. Furthermore he hopes for a town hammer so he can falsely go after them tomorrow with the sentiment "anyone who hammers at that stage would immediately get lynched"

vote: smear

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry about the triple post.

I'll try not to get too much into this, as it's already been back and forth between yourself and kiwi, but I'm still not feeling your wagon.

Ok, how do you feel about my new one?

The whole changing your story thing has never been convincing to me. First of all, bandwagoning and buddying don't seem all that different in this context and reads which rely too much on semantics and whatnot always seem weak to me. Criticizing her for not putting this in in her initial read is just silly.

Tbh I'm not as sold about PK as I once was, but lying about motivation is one of the main ways to catch out scum. If someone changes their story a good general rule to follow is that they are scum backtracking.

Later you say she's only been scumhunting which is a scum thing to do. While her defense that she has been making town reads isn't really all that great as her only citation is a dumb list with little or no content about her reads, town's best weapon is aggression. She doesn't need to publicly seek out townies; to do so would be to make it easier for anyone she misread.

My stance about town people being more likely to point out town reads is something I've noticed to be true and something I will stand by.

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

[jasonT1981]

Catching up this evening, feeling a bit better.

[GMan]

Sorry everyone, had a couple busy days and got myself behind quite a bit, will catch up on everything tonight and tomorrow.

[jasonT1981]

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

=who is the easiest to wagon to death? I'll just keep trying new people until someone dies.

I actually was about to post the same when I saw it.

unvote
vote:Smear

My slight scum read on Zach has eased a bit.

[AntB]

Bleh, mission aborted on pg5, no matter how many times I come to it I can't get through those walls. Here what I picked up.

Ok, Kiwi isn't as town as she initially appears, Jason, smear and Zach seem to be in a league with each other, scum or mason (or even just RL mates), I have yet to discern which.

Zach and Jason are showing signs of outside information, its really pisses me off when people do stuff like "I'm doing this for this reason which we can't say because it breaks other games rules" - If I was modding this game you would've been force replaced or maybe even modkilled (Yes I have a specific rule against outside information - AntB/Set-Ups#Standard_Rules if you don't believe me).

Paraffin and ThAdmiral are solo town (and I just noticed paraffin voted me back on pg4).

I'll get more when I can.

[jasonT1981]

Zach and Jason are showing signs of outside information, its really pisses me off when people do stuff like "I'm doing this for this reason which we can't say because it breaks other games rules" - If I was modding this game you would've been force replaced or maybe even modkilled (Yes I have a specific rule against outside information - AntB/Set-Ups#Standard_Rules if you don't believe me).

oh really? given the game has ended and been linked I am wondering how you are arriving at this thought?

No outside info was talked about, nothing in the rules that we broke. Anyone in that game knew what was going on, and you could have looked it up yourself. We did not discuss an on going game, we simply said we could not talk about it as it was on going.

Besides, it was neither an indication of him being scum or town anyway.

Stop trying to force a modkill. People use tells from on going games all the time and as long as it does not directly mention the game it is acceptable.

[Zachrulez]

Zach and Jason are showing signs of outside information, its really pisses me off when people do stuff like "I'm doing this for this reason which we can't say because it breaks other games rules" - If I was modding this game you would've been force replaced or maybe even modkilled (Yes I have a specific rule against outside information - AntB/Set-Ups#Standard_Rules if you don't believe me).

Then it's a good thing you aren't the mod because no rule was broken.

[jasonT1981]

ceonn needs to come out and play, he is active on the site, but not game

[IceGuy]

I currently don't see a reason to force-replace or modkill any player.

[Descent]

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

Did anyone notice that it was very convenient that his next guess for scum was a new bandwagon that was starting.

Yep, I've been slow on posting because of the walls to be honest.

[IceGuy]

Now Really Corrected Vote Count

Smear (3): AntB, ThAdmiral, jasonT1981

malpascp (5): malpascp, Princess Kiwi, Zachrulez, Smear, paraffin

ceonn (1): lane0168
paraffin (2): GMan, AlgoricalTyphoon

Not voting (2): Descent, ceonn

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is September 23rd, 8 p.m. CEST.

[jasonT1981]

these big text walls are making it hard for me to follow

[paraffin]

Did anyone notice that it was very convenient that his next guess for scum was a new bandwagon that was starting.

Yeah at least two people have pointed that out and one voted him for it. Any other insights?

Also, AntB, about the inside information thing? They RV'd because of it and then informed curious posters that it was ongoing. It never should have left that stage because it was a damn RV and the way they were talking it was obvious that they had lynched descent as scum in another game. But people had to press the issue and here we are on page 6 still talking about modkills and crap.

</rant>

[lane0168]

Since nobody seems to agree with me about Zach, further campaigning against him will do no good. I'll switch to my next guess for scum.

Vote: Malpascp

this seems to be him searching for the best wagon, but not really caring where cause he already knows who's scum? throwing shit on the walls and see what sticks. why has no one else picked up on this?

but seriously in all honesty, i agree with the other people. but i'd like to take it a step further and focuse on "i'll switch to my next guess for scum". is it usually good practice to just guess who is scum smear? why are you guessing? why not just keep your vote where it is til you actually have some evidence that someone is scum, instead of this guessing stuff.

unvote vote:smear

still hope ceonn comes around

[Smear]

Did anyone notice that it was very convenient that his next guess for scum was a new bandwagon that was starting.

I was talking about the possibility of Malcascp being scum before that wagon started.

but seriously in all honesty, i agree with the other people. but i'd like to take it a step further and focuse on "i'll switch to my next guess for scum". is it usually good practice to just guess who is scum smear? why are you guessing? why not just keep your vote where it is til you actually have some evidence that someone is scum, instead of this guessing stuff.

It's impossible to make anything more than an educated guess in this game. Unless you're a cop with a read on someone, the best you can do is vote who you

suspect

.

I'm just voting on whoever seems the most scummy at the moment. And as I said in my last post, Zach has refuted my main reason for calling him out, so it was only logical to unvote him and vote for whoever did seem scum.

[Princess Kiwi]

I find it odd how the malpascp wagon grew. Notice again the Zach, Smear, and Paraffin pattern going on in the vote counts? Zach voted first, Smear jumped on...wait a minute, another wagon, and then Paraffin throws a vote in.

I'm going to UNVOTE: malpascp because at this point I need to do a re-read of the thread, and in my next post I'll use post #s rather than quotes.

Unfortunately that next post will not be coming tonight, as I had to catch up on a newbie game that I was neglecting. So I'll catch up tomorrow night after work, and probably place a vote at that point. I'll address anyone who I see in the thread that has unanswered concerns to me, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow night. Sorry guys ...I didn't even get to do my homework tonight >.< gah