Open 326: Pick Your Poison (Ende des Speils!)

[Amrun]

Obviously, mothrax is my #2. He is independently scummy, entirely unrelated to your flip.

I suspected glowball at some point but detracted it.

If you were to flip scum, thunderwielder would be awarded some scum points. Supreme Overlord would be awarded town points.

There is very little to analyze in the way of this, as I have been the only one on you all game, pretty much. If I finally succeed in getting a wagon on you, that will change, hopefully.

[lane0168]

But what about when I flip town? Do me a solid and figure that out. You don't even have to tell me. But I have to ask you to consider it. It'll save you thoughts in the long run.

[Supreme Overlord]

Did you or did you not come up with something for mothrax. Did you do anything as far as keeping him in mind?

I didn't come up with anything new. After making my case on you, I compared it to my opinion on mothrax (mainly that he hasn't done much of use yet, but I'm waiting on him to generate some content today); then decided that you were worthy of my vote. That's what I meant about keeping him in mind; being aware that he was an option if I decided you weren't all that scummy.

You said the one kill was almost completely scum driven. Do you have any suggestions as to who wasn't town that was helping drive the wagon?

Actually, I said that the wagon was almost completely town-driven. Thunder and I were the main ones pushing the wagon, and I think he's town. Most of the people who jumped on had glowball in their top suspects, for fairly valid reasons. Things get shadier as deadline approaches (because letting a deadline no-lynch occur is not good for scum if they get caught), so I don't think your's and Maruchan's votes say too much on your alignments.


MrTrow, can you comment on lane's case on Maruchan (post 550)?

White knighting

What does this term mean?

To elaborate; it's when a scum player defends a town player in the hopes of making other townies who are attacking them look bad. If the townie flips, the scum player can then be made to look good after having a correct 'read'.

And Amrun, while it may seem obvious to you who else you suspect, it doesn't hurt to let us know explicitly. It makes your thought processes more transparent, and provokes thought in everyone else as to who to keep an eye on.

<-- Probably still decent advice, but not specific to this situation.

[Amrun]

lane: If you were to flip town, nothing would really change. My suspicion of mothrax doesn't depend on my suspicion of you, and your pushes would be genuine. Once a full wagon built, there might be information available, but obviously as of yet there isn't anything.

SO: I have already made my thoughts transparent. I was looking for something out of lane. Obtuseness has a time and place and is not always anti-town.


It's cute that all the newbies are treating me like a newbie, though. lol

[lane0168]

@supreme, yeah I meant town driven. Should've probably edited that part, but I know you said it was mostly town driven. Seriously honest mistake and had no intentions of misrepping.

As of amruns politely serious last post I can accept her push on me. What I really need from amrun is to consider the IF of me flipping town. That is good enough for me cause I can understand when someone is sure they have scum and they flip town. There isn't anything you can do to change their mind. I just want you amrun to come back to what I have said I some point.

Ps I hope you don't think I'm treating you as a newb. I'm only trying to treat you like you're wrong. Not new

[Maruchan]

I will unvote when you learn how to read.
1. "Based on a joke". based on a joke? -.- did you not fuckign read? I TRIED TO PREVENT IT BASED ON ROBOTHOR'S HATING IT. And RoboTHor kindly vouched for this when he finally showed up. Ask him if you don't believe me.

Like he said,

it was mostly me just picking fun at him

in revenge for getting lynched by him.

Picking fun at someone is another way to say making fun of someone, making fun of someone=/= a joke. Lrn2deferintiate.

2. "Uses doc as a base for setup-discussions" ??? Link to where I used doc as a base for setup discussions, as the only place I remember mentioning the word doc, is: BE WARY OF SCUM FAKECLIMING IT. hadurdadur?

When I am a doc I PR hunt

This was in response to someone saying "Why would anyone PR hunt NOT as scum?" Not having anything whatsoever to do with the setup. Nice try though.

Also don't ever forget the favorite tool of scum, WIFOM. If any doc claims today with a save, I highly doubt they are being legit. More likely scum claiming to save, so as to A: Make town think they have a doc when they don't, B: Out the real doc, C: Clear one of their own.

I already explained this one, It is me saying "BE WARY OF A DOC CLAIM" not sayign there is a doctor? how the fuck does me say "DONT TRUST DOCTOR CLAIMS" = "I THINK THERE IS A LEGIT DOCTOR"? This makes no sense. Explain your train of thought?

last but clearly not least

-fakescenario-
-me Saulres are scumbuddies-
IM CLAIMING DOCTOR!!!!!
I WAS ON SAULRES LAST NIGHT!!!!!
no ccs?
WE'RE BOTH CLEAR
-/fake scenario-

Read above, this was me saying "DO
NOT
TRUST
DOCTOR
CLAIMS", as in saying SCUM WIL LCLAIM DOCOTR. this has nothing to do with a REAL doctor? Again, nicetrythough?

3. "glowball's somewhat clumsy buddy" -.- Seriously? Just. Really? Get out. What did glowball flip gudsir?

I hammered to make sure that some idiot wouldn't unvote and force a no lynch.

Not only did glowball not flip yet at that time. (nullifying your point)
Said unvote would most likely have been made by someone we would like to catch (if a single No Lynch would have that result: great)(the point i was actually making)
Your remark i just quoted is either clumsy/incorrect or simply a lie

This was me in response to you CALLING ME GLOWBALL'S BUDDY. Glowball flipped town. How am I her buddy? I don't give a fuck if you think I am clumsy scum, I WAS DENYING THAT I WAS CLUMSY SCUM-BUDDY OF GLOWBALL. again. please lrn2read if you want me to unvote you.

[Maruchan]

emphasis on "SCUM-buddy of GLOWBALL"

[MrTrow]

Spoiler: @Maru, 'not reading debate'

to poke fun at:
- to tease
- to ridicule in a mischievous manner
- to make a joke at the expense of

As for the doctor-thing: i am not saying your stance is that we must have a doctor, my point is you are taking a stance.
Doc claims are a scum move can easily be translated to 'there is no doc'
(whether or not your remarks completely deny the possibility of a doc is irrelevant/you did admit to 2 cases of stating there will not be a doc-claim from town)
especially after you flip scum.
Considering you have admitted to be a wifom-lover this is what i would expect scum-maru to do.

If you want (me) to look at the the individual remarks:
"if i was a doc "(i would be doing exactly what this player just did): trying to be the next 'clumsy town'? (you even quoted a clumsy-town rather than scum for this)
"I WILL NOT BELIEVE DOC CLAIMS": did you want to talk about doctors? or were you intentionally preventing players from committing scum-tells?(actively hindering scumhunting?)
"fake scenario"(possibilities due to specific mechanic): would only work if there is no roleblocker (which in that scenario does exist) and would immediately draw the cop`s attention, while such a fake scenario with a cop would work as long as the cop isn`t roleblocked (which is detectable) .

"CALLING ME GLOWBALL'S BUDDY": i didn`t call you glowballs buddy, i called the 'unvoting idiot' glowballs buddy, as such your claimed motivation for that hammer would be (best case) town-you preventing a scum-tell in the 'unvoting idiot', result: i don`t buy your claimed motivation

MrTrow, can you comment on lane's case on Maruchan (post 550)?

Spoiler: My problems with your remark

You attack lane for not switching votes for 23 pages (nothing wrong with this if it remains the best case)
And call the glowball and NS wagons as motivation why the 23-page-long vote was not on the best case.
Lane had a townread on glowball and believed more pressure would not result in more info: one does not vote a townread, more info was indeed not coming
as for NS: What was there to add to the case/what information would come from the flip?

If it wasn`t for the deadline the vote/case(/pressure) were all where they needed to be, come deadline the vote was switched accordingly.
I do admit seeing a (weak but) possible connection lane-mothrax here, but i still have lane as town

Spoiler: My opinion on the case

- Maruchan`s careless response to a few votes indeed do not match calling glowball`s "You should lynch me"-card a scumtell
- The 'glowball has pulled this distancing/bussing scheme before' argument (a decent argument imo) is simply being ridiculed (although it matches the 'careless attitude' i don`t like it)
- I`m not as sold on the 'trying to look helpfull'-argument
- the 'lurking to see who picks it up' was indeed terrible (at best), excuse(/lie) more likely

all in all an ok case (decent continuation of one) with which i can agree with on over half of the points

@Hoppster: i assume this is a sufficient alternative for tl;dr

[Amrun]

You attack lane for not switching votes for 23 pages (nothing wrong with this if it remains the best case)

Um, did you pay attention to the vote lane was actually sitting on? It was terrible - far from the best case.

[lane0168]

You attack lane for not switching votes for 23 pages (nothing wrong with this if it remains the best case)

Um, did you pay attention to the vote lane was actually sitting on? It was terrible - far from the best case.

Id hardly say the second best is far from the best. Considering glowball wasn't scum and you fail to remember maru was a leading wagon, and I was virtually never the only on on him. Even glowball town was on it til the end. I suppose that was scummy of her too. So why is it that she didn't get all the flack from her horseshit vote, when you obviously can't let it go that I did it

[Amrun]

Being on a wagon that is widely accepted =/= not being scummy.

Your vote on it was bad and poorly supported for a long time. You coasted on this early game vote until you started taking pressure for doing so, at which point you provided a case which was also invalid.

And if you'll note, I've said the Maruchan wagon was bad ever since it started.

[lane0168]

@Lane, what are the conclusions you've now drawn from the Glowball lynch? As you said mislynching her would at least give some more information (I'm paraphrasing, correct me if I'm misinterpreting).

[lane0168]

What? Can I delete that? My phone did some crazy shit cause I never quoted that. I typed a response to amrun lol.

The point was a big part of the case was my vote on maru. Why wasn't that any of a part of a case on glowball?

Also my case on maru built threwout the day. The case I finally laid out was largely quotes that I had already said. I've even built on it today. And I was right because maru already said he was purposely being nicer to saulres than he wanted to be. Made a light hearted comment and even winked at saulres instead of being an asshole. Seems like buddying to me

[Amrun]

The point was a big part of the case was my vote on maru. Why wasn't that any of a part of a case on glowball?

I don't understand what you mean by this.

[lane0168]

You said my vote on maru is terrible. And keep bringing up how its scummy. And its a big part of why I'm scummy to you. But you never brought it up as even a point on glowball. Not even a ,hey that's scummy but I think glowball is still town. Why not? Why the double standard?

[MrTrow]

@Amrun:
The reasons stated at the time the vote was made, were indeed terrible
it was also the first vote to state a non RVS reason other than the roleplaying newbie: a player who lane did look at(afaict).

I know you have a slightly different view on 'puposely-scummy actions' but
the case that grew over time i do consider a relatively good case.

I believe i also defended against (voting it over) suggested alternative cases.
Could you please restate/rephrase your issue with my remark or tell me (or better yet lane) which case at which moment should have resulted in a vote-switch?


Ninja-edit:
Lane i`m looking forward to see what you actually meant (and your results of the reread you promised as a result of that quote)

[Maruchan]

Mr trow is grasping at straws harder and harder with each consecutive post he makes. My vote I now officially on him as a vote

[lane0168]

What I meant about what? I Rewrote the just of what I tried to send after that weird quote thing. And I plan on doing that tonight. Just not at work cause I'm breaking all the rules and can only spend minutes at a time when no one is around.

[lane0168]

Mr trow is grasping at straws harder and harder with each consecutive post he makes. My vote I now officially on him as a vote

Huh? What do you see?

[Maruchan]

I'll explain when I am not on a cellphone.

[lane0168]

word

[Maruchan]

Revision: I'll explain it when I am not tired as fuck

[Amrun]

You said my vote on maru is terrible. And keep bringing up how its scummy. And its a big part of why I'm scummy to you. But you never brought it up as even a point on glowball. Not even a ,hey that's scummy but I think glowball is still town. Why not? Why the double standard?

Not all votes for Maruchan are/were scummy. I didn't find glowball's particularly scummy, though I did find glowball's case on Maruchan not convincing, as noted, if you will look.

People voting for my town reads are not automatically scum, just like people voting for my scum reads are not automatically town. It just doesn't work that way.

[Maruchan]

You said my vote on maru is terrible. And keep bringing up how its scummy. And its a big part of why I'm scummy to you. But you never brought it up as even a point on glowball. Not even a ,hey that's scummy but I think glowball is still town. Why not? Why the double standard?

Not all votes for Maruchan are/were scummy. I didn't find glowball's particularly scummy, though I did find glowball's case on Maruchan not convincing, as noted, if you will look.

People voting for my town reads are not automatically scum, just like people voting for my scum reads are not automatically town. It just doesn't work that way.

FOR THE ATTENTION OF SCUM:

This is what good posting looks like.

[Supreme Overlord]

I'm going on V/LA for the next three weeks; I should be able to keep up for two weeks, not sure about the third.

Before I head off, I'll give you my current list of reads:

Town-ish:

thunderweilder - pretty much carried over from yesterday. Still observant.
saulres - I'm getting more and more impressed by saulres' play; he's thinking and questioning well.
Maruchan - preventing a no-lynch (or the possibility of one) and general wariness of PR claims puts Maruchan here.
Amrun - now glowball's out of the picture, I think Amrun and I are mostly on the same page.
Hoppster - Hasn't said all that much today, and while I'm (still) not sold on his mothrax case, I'm happy that he's honest with it.

Neutral:

RoboThor - dropped down because I'm not sure where they stand right now.
MrTrow - My read on him has improved now that he's doing stuff, but I don't really like his Maruchan case.
Auckmid - Said he would post every day. LIES. Next to no read on him.

Scummy:

mothrax - ... hurry up and do something.
lane - I've made this case.


Saulres, can you either expand your case on Maruchan (if he's still your top suspect) or make a case/agree with the point someone's already made on someone else?