Open 334: Friends and Enemies in Icetown (Town Win)

[paraffin]

Kiwi, don't worry, we're waiting for other people to post much more intently than we are for you~

I'll have something more to say by tomorrow night, I just spent 3 hours on a post in my newbie game

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Smear (4): AntB, ThAdmiral, jasonT1981, lane0168

malpascp (4): malpascp, Zachrulez, Smear, paraffin

paraffin (2): GMan, AlgoricalTyphoon

Not voting (3): Descent, ceonn, Princess Kiwi

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is September 23rd, 8 p.m. CEST.

ceonn is now being replaced. He didn't even pick up his prod.

[lane0168]

Did anyone notice that it was very convenient that his next guess for scum was a new bandwagon that was starting.

I was talking about the possibility of Malcascp being scum before that wagon started.

but seriously in all honesty, i agree with the other people. but i'd like to take it a step further and focuse on "i'll switch to my next guess for scum". is it usually good practice to just guess who is scum smear? why are you guessing? why not just keep your vote where it is til you actually have some evidence that someone is scum, instead of this guessing stuff.

It's impossible to make anything more than an educated guess in this game. Unless you're a cop with a read on someone, the best you can do is vote who you

suspect

.

I'm just voting on whoever seems the most scummy at the moment. And as I said in my last post, Zach has refuted my main reason for calling him out, so it was only logical to unvote him and vote for whoever did seem scum.

True, but usually people try to make it seem legit when they cast their vote. Not ill go with another guess.
Just seems odd that you didn't. Although you have mentioned malp as being suspicious for active lurking

[Descent]

I'm not going to post a wall of text, because as much as I like them, I am too tired to do it right now. I apologize for both: not posting much and if none of this makes sense.

Other than that, Smear would have me suspicious if I hadn't played with him before. Instead I just see him as being his usual self, unafraid of changing his mind and rarely being very aggressive.

This is a post this interested me that much, this might have been a bit old, but if I remember correctly (I should), this is when Smear was being called out on his vote and unvote to avoid the hammer. Was this Paraffin trying to protect Smear or was he being sincere with his protection there. I did go back and read a touch of what Smear has done, and I did see some aggressive play. Maybe that was one of those rare aggressive moments that I saw, but that doesn't mean to say that Paraffin was lying about it.

Other then that, I have found the walls to be annoying when I am re-reading. What annoyed me is that they were basically saying the same thing over and over, and that is what worries me about what Kiwi and Paraffin are doing. I'm interested to whether or not they are just trying to divert our attention away from the two of them.

I need to look at Jason and Zach a little bit, but as far as I can see, there hasn't been much scum play from them.

[jasonT1981]

@Mod... will ceonn be replaced as it is 5 days?

[IceGuy]

@Mod... will ceonn be replaced as it is 5 days?

Yes. Or rather, because he got a prod after 3 days and didn't respond to it for 2 days.

If he comes back before I've found a replacement, he can reclaim his spot.

[AntB]

Lol, I never actually said or even implied a would push for a modkill or removal, my rules aren't iceguys and this is iceguys game not mine. Amazing what reactions you can get from lines like that.
No outside info was discussed, but it was obviously there, like I said it pissed me off.

Anyhoo.

---

I'm standing by my smear vote.

[Zachrulez]

Lol, I never actually said or even implied a would push for a modkill or removal, my rules aren't iceguys and this is iceguys game not mine. Amazing what reactions you can get from lines like that.
No outside info was discussed, but it was obviously there, like I said it pissed me off.

What about it is worth getting pissed off over?

[AntB]

Nothing, this is the innarwebz - nothing is worth getting pissed off over; but as an internet persona, it pissed me off.

Anyhoo.

[jasonT1981]

v/la for weekend, back monday

[paraffin]

Oy and now jason's going on another bender... =/

[jasonT1981]

Oh yes you only turn 30 once... I plan to not remember it.

[Princess Kiwi]

I'll get to this thread after work today, other newbie game got put on hold which leaves plenty of time for here once I finish studying.

[IceGuy]

AlgoricalTyphoon has been prodded.

[Smear]

Other then that, I have found the walls to be annoying when I am re-reading. What annoyed me is that they were basically saying the same thing over and over, and that is what worries me about what Kiwi and Paraffin are doing. I'm interested to whether or not they are just trying to divert our attention away from the two of them.

I agree. I just went back to reread and there really wasn't much. This whole game has been pretty stagnant between lack of posting, multiple replacements, and lack of real content which worries me.

Nothing, this is the innarwebz - nothing is worth getting pissed off over; but as an internet persona, it pissed me off.

Anyhoo.

Your last few posts don't really much sense to me, and none of your reads are very justified. I also don't like how you keep using "I can't deal with walls" as an excuse not to post anything helpful. Care to explain?

[IceGuy]

*sigh*

malpascp has been prodded again.

[Princess Kiwi]

I saw that as a release of pressure from her, not to mention her only case for me being scum was my 'flip-flop', my defense of which she hasn't questioned IIRC. Being #4 on her scumlist isn't all that threatening. (And yet bringing me down to L-2 with a big FoS is apparently removing all pressure...?)

Actually my main case for you was to note how closely the three of you played, and how you either seemed to avoid talking about them in some posts, or defend them in other posts. And what is IIRC? Big FoS means IGMEOU basically. In other words, by me taking my vote off of you, it meant that I saw other people to be far more scummy than you. At least at the time. I’m afraid that I’ve lost track of this game, which means that I’ll possibly either have to re-read the entire thread, or possibly replace out as I’m getting more hours at work over the next few weeks. But to answer your questions, yes, that was a way of removing immediate pressure, because if my vote isn’t on you it means I have reasonable doubt that you aren’t scum and believe someone else to be scummier.

And kiwi, about mal; why do we need to ask him questions for him to contribute something? It's his responsibility to come up with things to say, spoon feeding him questions just makes it easier for him to know how to appease you. Also, zach explained his vote on mal, I dunno why you're questioning him about it. Sometimes I don't think you read very carefully.

Something I generally tend to do is to ask people questions in an attempt to boost their activity level, and to see if they’re really going back through the thread and re-reading it or not. As far as questioning Zach, to me it makes sense that if you want a player to provide information and shape up, it’s best to ask them questions to provide information about, but I can understand what you mean about making it easier for him to appease me. I suppose this is a flawed strategy of mine, so I may have to re-think it.

Your threshold for 100% certainty seems pretty low, yah?

Reeeeally? Considering this is only D-1, and the only votes I have made include: Jason, Paraffin, and Malpascp. Considering that each of my votes have had some basis behind them, the first vote being in RVS with nothing more to go on than one post, you, whom previously I had seen as very scummy, and Mal as a means of putting pressure on him. But yeah, the Jason vote was grabbing at anything that appeared scummy, the Mal vote was pressure, and your vote was because I believed you could be scum-partners with Zach & Smear...I’m doubting this quiet a bit, and starting to get a town read more on you now than before.

Smear Post #104- possible buddying me?

Paraffin Post #106- Yes, my biggest hope at the time was for a quickhammer, but also to see who would unvote as well, to show signs of possible partnership. My idea behind the guinea pig reaction fishing is a strategy of mine that I am working on, although perhaps one that needs to be done later in the game rather than page three D-1. I can certainly see how it would hurt town, especially if you are town, but at the time I believed it to be a good way to start discussion and do some scum-hunting as well, to see who responded to it in what ways.

IMO Smear’s unvote/ vote thing was a major blip on the scumdar. His reaction reads to me as, in this scenario that you are scum and he your buddy: “Oh crud! Paraffin is about to get lynched! Unvote!” Me- “reaction fishing works!” Smear: “Crud I’m caught! Revote!”

It’s very strange to me that he would revote using, as you said, my reason that L-1 is pretty safe at that stage in the wagon. It looks like he is defending you and then realized he was caught, and revoted just because I pointed it out. That’s what looks scummy, under the assumption that you’re scum.

I suppose the thing that seemed suspicious about the two unvotes was the timing, immediately after you reached L-1. It gave me the impression of a scum-trio, which had both soft bussing, voting for little/ no reasoning, and the unvotes at L-1 which I saw as defending you.

And yeah, I’d noticed that Zach doesn’t say much in general. I believe I do remember reading that quote while making my post, but I didn’t really see it as anything solid towards your defense and or/ keeping pressure on you.

And yeah...I admit, I misread the quote and did end up twisting your words by mistake. I was reading it as: “Second, only to Kiwi, he hasn’t done much”... a.k.a. backwards >.<

Agreed...I believe that a majority of our wall-wars have been directed towards miscommunication, mostly on the part of myself. I’ll admit I haven’t been paying as much attention to this game as I’d like, and that I was getting it a little mixed up with my other newbie game, and losing track of it quickly. I’ll try to post better posts after this and do some more scumhunting as well.

AlTy post #107- I would say “Really, I seem to be doing just fine,” but that would make me a hypocrite xD. I understand, and I myself and finding it difficult to keep up between lack of energy/ full time work & school/ studying. In fact I’ve neglected about two days worth of studying for the sake of keeping up >.<

Paraffin Post #111- I’ve been jumped at before for being inactive for a day’s time, so I usually like to post when I’ll be going to avoid that from happening again. But yeah, for future notice, if I’m gone for a day or two it usually means that I’m very busy.

Zach #115- Yeah, I’m starting to see the flaw in my L-1 reaction-fishing strategy...especially on page three in a game. I had a structure of strategies that I was wanting to try out, but now I’ve either forgotten half of them, or in this case, found out that they aren’t very good >.< ...I can see the person who hammered in this scenario coming back and saying ‘lapse of judgement’, but I can also see myself looking at the others on the wagon, and any future VCA involving that player. But it still isn’t enough to warrant a lynch on pages 3-4 so early in D1. And, thanks for posting the link to the game. I’ll admit that I was grabbing at anything I could so early in the game, and Jason’s jumping on the wagon seemed like something pretty good to grab at.

And...yeah, I’d posted that since it was a pressure vote, my vote was still on Mal. I suppose I can understand where you misread that.

I don’t agree with your last paragraph at all. I posted that I planned on keeping pressure on him, and I have every intention of repeating questions he doesn’t answer. Also, I don’t intend to lynch him for active lurking, which is why I’m not voting him anymore. I intend to look through the thread and comment on the things that I see scummy, and make a vote from there. That means that I’ll be looking at the thread as though an outsider who has no particular bias in the game, to see what sticks out as scummy... so yeah, I may even end up pointing things out that I did that I don’t remember why I posted them in the first place.

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

Mal Pos #121- it is strange that after having been absent for a while, the only thing that you choose to answer to are direct questions asked to you. You don’t comment on anything else in the game, other than what is asked of you, and then you leave again. As far as I’m aware you’ve been pretty active since, being in 3 other games, and having been on earlier this day...and yet still no content from you.

2. If he made legit scumslips (IYO), then why don’t you vote for him now that you’re here?

3. Also noting the buddying tone in 3, since I’m currently asking for you to participate and Zach is saying participate or die. Then you still say Paraffin reads as scummy, but still no vote from him. Quiet a bit of sheeping in this answer?

4. Yes, it is necessary. It allows us to know where you stand in this game and why...why are you trying to dodge this?

AntB Post #123- Weren’t you in newbie 1106 with me as well? Surely you can remember my WoT even then, and thus can expect it from me.

Lane Post #125- What makes you confident that I am town when I am being questioned by so many players? Is this an honest read (at which point I will ask you to provide quotes that give you a town read, even if it’s just in the form of post #s), or are you buddying?

Smear #126- You say why you have town reads on Zach, but you still neglect to say why you believe Malpascp to be scum. Bandwagonning? Definitely. Coasting? Possibly. Safe position on the bandwagon as the 3rd voter? Certainly.

ThAdmiral Post #132- Yeah, I gave a list of scum-town and then scum reads. I felt it more important to explain why I had the scum reads than town reads, plus I was trying to do better with the whole “not posting walls” thing. And I know you couldn’t have known that, but now it’s out in the open that I made a mistake...so what now?

ThAdmiral Post #134- I fully admitted to my mistake and did not try to cop out of it after that, so I don’t see it as such a bad thing. I’m not backtracking, I am admitting to having made a mistake. Also, why can’t town scumhunt and post why, while at the same time posting who they believe to be town without posting why? At least I

gave

town reads, even if I didn’t specifically state why they were town reads. Also...good point on that last part.

AntB post # 138- Why am I not as town as I initially appeared, considering you only got to page 5 and missed a lot of discussion? Also, pointing out the obvious that I posted several times of at least Smear & Zach, and again, what makes you believe Paraffin and ThAdmiral are solo town? It’s amazing how you manage to come back and say: “I’m not reading those walls! But here’s what I think anyway:” and not explain why you think what you think.

Smear Post #148- Yeah, all you can do is make educated guess in this game based off of the information that you have, and try to convince others that your guess is right. In your case, you’ve only done one of those things. You have only stated that you believe Malpascp to be scum, but not why. You haven’t tried to convince us of anything, you only jumped on the wagon and have yet to give us a reason why. In response to your last sentence in this post:

Why

did he seem scummy when you voted him? You state over and over again that Mal seems scummy, but not

why

...makes me wonder if it’s soft bussing?

Descent Post #153- if I was trying to draw attention away from myself, why would I have bothered placing Paraffin at L-1 with a reaction-fishing post, and questioning him further after that? It seems like I would be focusing on someone else more, at least while engaging in the wall-war with Paraffin.

Smear Post #164- a bit hypocritical, don’t you think? Considering you have yet to form any cases, pull up any quotes, or provide anything further than sheeping/ voting on bandwagons. This is

very

hypocritical.

Based off of the fact that Smear has yet to post actual content, give actual reads, and has a tendancy to jump on wagons, I’m going to:

VOTE: Smear

And...I know, I know, WoT...but I'll try and do better now that I'm caught up in the game. If I fall behind in the game like that again, I'll do you guys a favor and ask for a replacement, but stay active enough to answer any questions until the replacement comes. No, I'm not asking for one right now, because I'm actually caught up and have a firm stance on the game.

Speaking of firm stance, just so that everyone knows,

Smear is at L-1.

No, this is not a reaction-fishing post, I truly believe that the things Smear has done cannot be passed off, and I believe he has done far too many scummy things to be town. I am 100% at ease with my vote, and my justification for putting him at L-1.

[Princess Kiwi]

EBWOP: I'm off for the rest of the night, I have homework to do and I have -got- to study for my tests >.< I have work tomorrow, and studying as well.

Also, @ Mod-

I will be extending my V/LA from Monday-Tuesday, to Sunday 9/11- Tuesday 9/13 due to the fact that I have two tests to study for. I should be back to normal activity again on Tuesday, but until then I'll try to keep up enough to where I don't have to create a massive 'WoT' catch-up post.

[jasonT1981]

He is at -2 I believe, not -1.. unless in my very drunk state i missed a vote. Kiwi is coming off very town to me right now. However there is something in the big post caught my eye. I will touch on this when I return from V/LA though. bit too drunk to get into big thoughts now! Plus, Zach n Gregg don't like me playing Mafia when drunk lol.

[jasonT1981]

Quickly

Paraffin Post #106- Yes, my biggest hope at the time was for a quickhammer, but also to see who would unvote as well, to show signs of possible partnership.

this is the part I don't like of the post. Quickhammers are never (or rarely) good for town. Since game is over now, Zach and I voting Descent was based on a game, where we wagoned him, and there was a very quick hammer. He flipped scum thankfully D1

However that game was plagued with quick hammers, and though town won was very dangerous. I went to bed with 0 votes on me, came back to read game to find I had been quick lynched. It was the same person quick hammered all 3 days of that game.

Quickhammers = bad.

[paraffin]

Up late on a saturday night compiling a linux kernel. Too tired to trust myself to post well, but I'll just agree with jason here... Kiwi you need to explain why you hoped for a quickhammer.

[malpascp]

Sorry again guys. I was leaning to a paraffin lynch today, but I don't see how that's possible now. Smear is a good alternative.
I don't usually make big re-read posts, but I think I can handle one in this game.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral Post #132- Yeah, I gave a list of scum-town and then scum reads. I felt it more important to explain why I had the scum reads than town reads, plus I was trying to do better with the whole “not posting walls” thing. And I know you couldn’t have known that, but now it’s out in the open that I made a mistake...so what now?

I'm willing to accept the possibility that it was a mistake.
I think you are failing terribly at not posting walls though.

Seriously though, please try to be more brief.

ThAdmiral Post #134- I fully admitted to my mistake and did not try to cop out of it after that, so I don’t see it as such a bad thing. I’m not backtracking, I am admitting to having made a mistake. Also, why can’t town scumhunt and post why, while at the same time posting who they believe to be town without posting why? At least I

gave

town reads, even if I didn’t specifically state why they were town reads. Also...good point on that last part.

If someone claimed scum, and then fully admitted to their mistake, I'm still going to attack them for it. I'm not sure if you understand where I'm coming from which is I try to look for motivation behind behaviour. When you claimed someone was wagon jumping and then later claimed buddying was the reason you voted them it made sense to me from a scum motivation point of view; i.e. you felt you needed more justification for the vote so retconned an extra reason for it.
It also could have been a mistake, as you've said (and as I'm willing to accept now), but I'm not going to assume that straight away. That sort of careless attitude would actually be detrimental to the town.

[Smear]

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

I had said why I believe him scummy in post #90.

Smear #126- You say why you have town reads on Zach, but you still neglect to say why you believe Malpascp to be scum. Bandwagonning? Definitely. Coasting? Possibly. Safe position on the bandwagon as the 3rd voter? Certainly.

I had already said why I believe him to be scum. I don't why it's so strange that when I become less suspicious of one player, I focus my attentions on another.

Smear Post #164- a bit hypocritical, don’t you think? Considering you have yet to form any cases, pull up any quotes, or provide anything further than sheeping/ voting on bandwagons. This is

very

hypocritical.

I haven't? News to me.

[jasonT1981]

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

I had said why I believe him scummy in post #90.

your only reason was lurking, you have yet to actually give any more reasons that I can see.

Your 117 was nothing short of a bandwagon jump because it was the popular wagon, and you had a weak (the lurking) reason to jump on it without anything solid.