camn's temperamental - Mini 1232 - GAME OVER

[Chair]

I always consider a vote on scum to be a town-move, especially one that doesn't try to over-justify it like yours did. I am sad to learn that you didn't believe in your vote when you made it.

So, not justifying a vote on twistedspoon merits questioning, but not justifying a vote on bbmolla merits a townread?

First of all, I believe you can read the wiki's newbie guide to tell you that associative tells before there are any flips are futile. Second of all, that's kind of special pleading. Saying that it's good that our vote wasn't "over-justified" doesn't mean that you can just let it go with 0 justification.

And is there a problem with that? Is it scummy to attack another player?

No. That particular line was for chronological purposes.

The whole thing turned around at his claim. The claim was what dissolved the wagon. That's the real shame here.

Well, I'm glad to see that you're trying to convince everyone that BB is scum, and I'm glad to see that you're so concerned that the wagon has dissolved! But wait... you haven't, and you aren't!

I have no motivation to scumhunt TODAY because I have already caught scum.

This LITERALLY completely ignores the point that I made. If you have no motivation to scumhunt, if you are town, and if you have completely caught scum, you should be hammering everyone to vote him.

Take us, for example. We've called BB town. You've done NOTHING to convince us otherwise. You've IGNORED our points on why he's town. And yet, you expect us to find him scummy simply by merit of YOU finding him scummy? It doesn't work like that; you can't give yourself a free pass to do

absolutely nothing

for the entire day and expect other people to accept that.

1. the town motivation is that I am 100% sure that BBMolla is scum. there are no if's and but's about it.
2. why did you vote BB in the first place if you don't find the case convincing? Just wondering. The case hasn't really changed since then so.

1: then convince me of it. Refute the reasons that we gave for BB being town.
2: to see what would happen.

You sidestepped essentially all of my major points... so yeah. You're scum. Sidestepped the point that you haven't been trying to actually get BB lynched; sidestepped the point that you've been giving yourself a free pass.

If you say BB is scum and say that you aren't going to be even paying attention to what anyone else says at all whatsoever and so on and so forth (you've said you have no motivation to scumhunt) then you should be directing your faculties towards convincing specific people - particularly people like us, who you stated some extent of a townread on - that BB is scum. You are not doing that. You voting but not pushing, and then saying that you aren't going to scumhunt, is not town-motivated behavior. Town want to lynch scum. You keep saying BB is scum. That's all well and good. But either continue to scumhunt, or PUSH on BB. Your lack of pushing others to vote BB is the biggest reason that you are scum.

-implosion

[BBmolla]

1. the town motivation is that I am 100% sure that BBMolla is scum. there are no if's and but's about it.

This is quite literally impossible. There's no way to know 100% without a flip.

You're also wrong, and if I do get lynched today, I will be expecting your lynch shortly after.

Your discrediting of Chair's true statements are hilarious.

Scum have a tendency of not being pro-town in their actions, regardless of how they look. Yes I am biased, but that's because I think you're scum. I'm looking for the scum motivation in your posts, not the town motivation.

Now, there are a few key things to note about the most important thing about Parama's BB push: the

way

that he's pushing.

He's tunneling to the point where, essentially, he's giving himself an excuse to push on BB no matter what happens - more than that, he

says

that he still has a chance of changing his mind when realistically, there's no way he's going to. This is why I asked him the question about selfmeta - if he winds up tunneling in this way, a way that basically gives him a "free pass" through day one, frequently as town, then I'd have no issue with it. But if he doesn't do it frequently, then it's scummy because of how it lets him continue this push no matter what happens.

bluh bluh parama is tunneling ma

[Chair]

I say I *may* change my mind, which doesn't mean I will, and I usually don't. There is *always* the possibility that I might, though.

I am 100% sure that BBMolla is scum. there are no if's and but's about it.

When all of the people that are in hiding come out and post could they all vote Parama? We can do this.

[kanyeknowsbest]

Okay.

Unvote, Vote: Chair

Parama, get on this.

[kanyeknowsbest]

You too BBmolla, so we can wifom tomorrow about whether or not you were bussing Chair. It'll be cool.

[Chair]

Okay.

Unvote, Vote: Chair

Parama, get on this.

So you didn't read my case and are dismissing us as scum because we aren't accepting BBclaim as BBscum?

Shame. You're a townread for various reasons (similarity of play to sexy sedilla, talking about your rolename, the way that you're handling your PR).

[Chair]

Hey kanye.

You see what you're doing? trying to get people (importantly, specific people) to vote with you.
You see what Parama isn't doing? trying to get people (importantly, specific people) to vote with him.
Are you town? Do town, when they think (in Parama's case: 100% sure) they are right, try to get people to vote with them? Is parama town?

[kanyeknowsbest]

I'm not sure how I feel about BBmolla anymore, actually. Parama and Fishy are my two strongest town reads, so my decision is based on their interactions with you and your response to the BBmolla claim, regardless of his alignment.

[Chair]

By the way, you can just assume that our posts are coming from me right now. Misder's been sick and bogged down with work a bit, and I keep forgetting to sign posts.

-implosion

[Chair]

I'm not sure how I feel about BBmolla anymore, actually. Parama and Fishy are my two strongest town reads, so my decision is based on their interactions with you and your response to the BBmolla claim, regardless of his alignment.

Hey kanye.

You see what you're doing? trying to get people (importantly, specific people) to vote with you.
You see what Parama isn't doing? trying to get people (importantly, specific people) to vote with him.
Are you town? Do town, when they think (in Parama's case: 100% sure) they are right, try to get people to vote with them? Is parama town?

[kanyeknowsbest]

I'll reread him.

[kanyeknowsbest]

Hey Parama, are you town?

[Chair]

Do not fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum. Don't bother with trying to draw connections between players until one of them is dead. It's tempting! but futile.

[kanyeknowsbest]

I agree with that quote. I don't see how it is relevant to the situation however.

[Chair]

It's a refutation of the first half of your reason for voting me as outlined in 332, which was essentially drawing on associative tells.

It also applies to Parama and how he's taking BBscum as a given and using it to locate BB's scumbuddies (see: his Johhog fos).

[PeregrineV]

@RedPanda & Parama- Please see my discussion on the use of BBMolla as a possible two-part weapon system. If he is not, then I would suspect his role being more enemy oriented than not. But until that is determined, please go with your second suspect.

@Jahhog- Without reasons for your reads, how on God's green earth do you expect to convince us of anything? Thinking like that's going to keep you on KP duty.

re-other stuff- I have additional recruits (nephews) this weekend, so anything else posting-wise will have to wait til Monday, although I'll probably stay caught up on the reading part.

[Johhog]

Without reasons for your reads, how on God's green earth do you expect to convince us of anything? Thinking like that's going to keep you on KP duty.

Simple, I don't expect to convince you by my reads alone. I will make a case every now wand then though.

[Johhog]

EBWOP: every now *and then.

[Parama]

I say I *may* change my mind, which doesn't mean I will, and I usually don't. There is *always* the possibility that I might, though.

I am 100% sure that BBMolla is scum. there are no if's and but's about it.

When all of the people that are in hiding come out and post could they all vote Parama? We can do this.

I will give you a hint: this has changed SINCE his claim.

Okay.

Unvote, Vote: Chair

Parama, get on this.

no

Hey Parama, are you town?

no, now help me lynch BB.

[Zang]

Parama- You have ignored my question.

I always consider a vote on scum to be a town-move, especially one that doesn't try to over-justify it like yours did. I am sad to learn that you didn't believe in your vote when you made it.

What about scum bussing?

bluh bluh parama is tunneling ma

You are completely disregarding his point.

The whole thing turned around at his claim. The claim was what dissolved the wagon. That's the real shame here

The claim does not matter. What he is telling you is that people don't think BB is scum based solely on his claim but also on what he is posting.

I have no motivation to scumhunt TODAY because I have already caught scum.

If you believe that then you are useless to the town. Nobody who is pro-town is done scumhunting at any time unless all of the scum are caught and lynched.

1. the town motivation is that I am 100% sure that BBMolla is scum. there are no if's and but's about it.

This is completely impossible. There is no way that you can possibly be 100% sure that BB is scum if you are town and it is incredibly scummy for you to think so.

Okay.

Unvote, Vote: Chair

Parama, get on this.

Why is Chair scummy?

I will give you a hint: this has changed SINCE his claim.

How should his claim change anything?

Also, are you going to ignore everything else that chair said?

Unvote
Vote: Parama

[Parama]

Parama- You have ignored my question.

What question? You really expect me to go digging for it?

I always consider a vote on scum to be a town-move, especially one that doesn't try to over-justify it like yours did. I am sad to learn that you didn't believe in your vote when you made it.

What about scum bussing?

They'll get theirs later. As long as someone's voting scum, I have no reason to want to lynch them.
Plus, tell me Chair's vote looks like a bus. C'mon. I dare you.

bluh bluh parama is tunneling ma

You are completely disregarding his point.

No... his point was that I was tunneling.

The whole thing turned around at his claim. The claim was what dissolved the wagon. That's the real shame here

The claim does not matter. What he is telling you is that people don't think BB is scum based solely on his claim but also on what he is posting.

That may be what he thinks, but you cannot deny that the wagon dissolved after the claim, and because of it.

I have no motivation to scumhunt TODAY because I have already caught scum.

If you believe that then you are useless to the town. Nobody who is pro-town is done scumhunting at any time unless all of the scum are caught and lynched.

I will lynch BB, and when he flips scum, I will use association tells to find his buddies. I've already got some of them association tells if you haven't noticed.

1. the town motivation is that I am 100% sure that BBMolla is scum. there are no if's and but's about it.

This is completely impossible. There is no way that you can possibly be 100% sure that BB is scum if you are town and it is incredibly scummy for you to think so.

Get this: It is possible.

I will give you a hint: this has changed SINCE his claim.

How should his claim change anything?

I'm not going to answer this right now.

Also, are you going to ignore everything else that chair said?

What am I ignoring?

im not following all those links.

[Parama]

mod fix those tags please

wtf

[Chair]

I will give you a hint: this has changed SINCE his claim.

"Always" in the first quote kind of implied that you, as a player,

always

have a chance of changing your mind, no matter the circumstances.
"no ifs ands or buts about it" in the second quote implied that you, in this game, are 100% sure BB is scum and will

never

change your mind.
So in essence, you're implying that one little claim changed the entire way that you play as a player? Before, you always had a chance of changing your mind; now, you have an exception to the rule?

-implosion

[Parama]

Yes.

[Chair]

Parama, what's your read on us right now?

No... his point was that I was tunneling.

No. The point of the paragraph you quoted was that in tunneling and in saying that you were 100% certain, you gave yourself a free pass through the day.

That may be what he thinks, but you cannot deny that the wagon dissolved after the claim, and because of it.

Cool. It dissolved when he claimed. So why haven't you made any effort to reconstruct the wagon?

I will lynch BB, and when he flips scum, I will use association tells to find his buddies. I've already got some of them association tells if you haven't noticed.

Do not fool yourself into thinking you can call the scumteam, especially before anyone has flipped scum. Don't bother with trying to draw connections between players until one of them is dead. It's tempting! but futile.