Open 334: Friends and Enemies in Icetown (Town Win)

[jasonT1981]

It was nothing more than a 'He can die easier' follow the popular wagon vote.

[Smear]

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

I had said why I believe him scummy in post #90.

your only reason was lurking, you have yet to actually give any more reasons that I can see.

Your 117 was nothing short of a bandwagon jump because it was the popular wagon, and you had a weak (the lurking) reason to jump on it without anything solid.

It may not have been much, but I was at least trying to be productive.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Smear (5): AntB, ThAdmiral, jasonT1981, lane0168, Princess Kiwi

malpascp (4): malpascp, Zachrulez, Smear, paraffin
paraffin (2): GMan, AlgoricalTyphoon

Not voting (2): Descent, ceonn

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is September 23rd, 8 p.m. CEST.

GMan has been prodded again.

[jasonT1981]

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

I had said why I believe him scummy in post #90.

your only reason was lurking, you have yet to actually give any more reasons that I can see.

Your 117 was nothing short of a bandwagon jump because it was the popular wagon, and you had a weak (the lurking) reason to jump on it without anything solid.

It may not have been much, but I was at least trying to be productive.

Do you have any further reasons to suspect him as scum now, aside from the lurking?

[Smear]

Smear Post #117- Seems rather opportunistic, especially since you didn’t even post

why

he was your next guess. Are you just going from bandwagon to bandwagon and coasting, or what?

I had said why I believe him scummy in post #90.

your only reason was lurking, you have yet to actually give any more reasons that I can see.

Your 117 was nothing short of a bandwagon jump because it was the popular wagon, and you had a weak (the lurking) reason to jump on it without anything solid.

It may not have been much, but I was at least trying to be productive.

Do you have any further reasons to suspect him as scum now, aside from the lurking?

He's only made six posts. Not to be "lurker police," but that's pretty major lurking. His few posts contribute very little.

Also:

Sorry again guys. I was leaning to a paraffin lynch today, but I don't see how that's possible now. Smear is a good alternative.
I don't usually make big re-read posts, but I think I can handle one in this game.

You're trying to lynch me for "wagon jumping," but at least I have a reason. All he says is "I want to lynch Para but since that probably won't happen let's lynch whoever the current wagon is on..."

[jasonT1981]

weird you are going after him for that when


Descent also 6 posts
AlgoricalTyphoon also 6 posts.
GMan has made only 3 posts
ceonn only 2 posts.

And yet you seem to focus on malpascp with only 6 posts... thats weak sauce, on a weak reason to wagon. your doing no scum hunting and just jumping on whatever you feel is an easy lynch. Why ignore those other 4, 2 of which on equal post counts, and 2 on less? Im ignoring lane0168's 5 posts right now because he replaced in. But yes, so many on 6 or less posts, and you only focus on one.. what was at the time a hot wagon.

scum thy name is Smear.

[jasonT1981]

You're trying to lynch me for "wagon jumping," but at least I have a reason. All he says is "I want to lynch Para but since that probably won't happen let's lynch whoever the current wagon is on..."

THIS IS HORRIBLE.

I can't lynch who I want to, so lets lynch the current wagon.

Not lynch based on scummy, not lynched based on a case.

but, and I quote

'let's lynch whoever the current wagon is on..'

That is not town thoughts at all, town would lynch based on evidence, you just want to lynch anyone a wagon is on it seems.

[Smear]

You're trying to lynch me for "wagon jumping," but at least I have a reason. All he says is "I want to lynch Para but since that probably won't happen let's lynch whoever the current wagon is on..."

THIS IS HORRIBLE.

I can't lynch who I want to, so lets lynch the current wagon.

Not lynch based on scummy, not lynched based on a case.

but, and I quote

'let's lynch whoever the current wagon is on..'

That is not town thoughts at all, town would lynch based on evidence, you just want to lynch anyone a wagon is on it seems.

Yes, that is essentially what Malpasc said... I fail to see how this is evidence against me?

[AntB]

@Smear
If you fail to understand my posts, go back and re-read them.

---

@PrincessKiwi
IIRC = If I Remember Correctly
Suspicion levels go IGMEOY -> FoS -> HoS

AntB Post #123- Weren’t you in newbie 1106 with me as well? Surely you can remember my WoT even then, and thus can expect it from me.

Nope, wasn't me.

AntB post # 138- Why am I not as town as I initially appeared, considering you only got to page 5 and missed a lot of discussion? Also, pointing out the obvious that I posted several times of at least Smear & Zach, and again, what makes you believe Paraffin and ThAdmiral are solo town? It’s amazing how you manage to come back and say: “I’m not reading those walls! But here’s what I think anyway:” and not explain why you think what you think.

I used a few CSS tricks to alter the page so it was more readable for me and forced myself through the walls. General content and attitude are what lead to my reads, during the read through I found a couple of nuggets in your walls which may be important later on, but for now only serve as a mild dampaner on you (my read on you is still pretty town).

---

compiling a linux kernel

Gentoo user by any chance?

---

I was leaning to a paraffin lynch today, but I don't see how that's possible now. Smear is a good alternative.

You just hop on any available wagon and we'll get to you later...

---

I think jason either missed by a mile or just hit the jackpot...

[jasonT1981]

oh bah, my mistake on that. I thought that was what you were saying

[jasonT1981]

However, my points on the post numbers, and you only singling out one person, when others are equel or less still stands and needs answered.

If you are all over for lurking on one, should you not be all over them all for lurking? if (and i think will)Smear flips scum, I am looking for scum in that pool of people he missed out. And sure we will get at least 1 from it.

[Descent]

Just looking through the vote counts, and it shows that Smear has been on every major wagon, hell, he even jumped on my wagon when he didn't even know what it meant. If you look through every vote count, he has started one vote count which he abandoned quickly.

I'm looking to vote, but I'm not planning on it till close to the deadline.

[IceGuy]

Maruchan replaces ceonn. Thanks!

[Maruchan]

I will begin reading the game immediately, but I might get interrupted by dinner.

Any IMMEDIATE questions needed of me?

[jasonT1981]

What is the meaning of life?
What team(s) do you follow in sport?


ok serious now, I see you are pretty newish to the site, what is your experience, both on MS and on other sites? and have you any completed games on MS?

[Maruchan]

42.
Eww sports.


On MS I believe I have 6 (awaiting modpost for 7th) finished games, 7th will be a town-win, my-loss due to Breaking Strategy. This will be the 5th game I am currently in, and I am dead-in like 6 or 7 I think.

Before MS, I had 6 months of EM, so upwards of hundreds of games there. I haven't played EM once since MS though. Chat-Based I played for a few hours the other night on IRC.

Other than this, I have never played mafia, so no IRL mafia sadly.


All games on MS are linked in my wiki if you wish to check that out.

[jasonT1981]

sweet, thanks.

[Maruchan]

Mkay as I said dinner will interrupt, so I am just NOW starting my read, had to eat dinner.

[ThAdmiral]

However, my points on the post numbers, and you only singling out one person, when others are equel or less still stands and needs answered.

If you are all over for lurking on one, should you not be all over them all for lurking? if (and i think will)Smear flips scum, I am looking for scum in that pool of people he missed out. And sure we will get at least 1 from it.

This is a good shout.

[Maruchan]

1. What timezone is everyone in?
2. How do you feel about walls?
3. Do you prefer scum, PR, or townie?

1. US Central, GMT-6.
2. Depends on the walls, yours as of post ~50 (where I am currently at when replying to this): Pointless. T Here are times for walls and times for not. Times for walls are when making a case, explaining your past actions that people are questioning, and after a night-flip. Making a wall in EVERY post is a waste of time, for everyone. Scum like walls, why? Town get tired of reading them and put-off reading the thread/skim/ignore them/spend pointless time discussing the usefulness of said walls.

Easy answer: Fine in MODERATION.
3. Townie/PR depends on my mood. Sometimes I like townie so that I can be dispensable so I can be rash and as up-in-your face as I need to be, and if I do get lynched/killed for it, It won't detriment the town. Sometimes I like PR because townie is boring. I HATE scum, because then whenever someone calls you scum, rather than getting emotional, I get that "OH SHIT" feeling in my gut and have to make up defenses, rather than having ACTUAL defenses.

VOTE: princess because I'm too lazy to read anything she says

When he posted this I was already getting to the same point. And I still have 6 pages of them to go. X.X

I have time now, and will get right to those questions now.

More questions.
1. How do you feel about my vote on page one, and the FoSing? Do you feel that is enough basis to warrant a case against me, and if so, from your own standpoint, what about it appears scummy?
2. How do you feel about the Paraffin wagon? You haven't made a single comment about the game thus far, minus what I have directly asked you. Do you believe Paraffin or myself seem scummy?
3. Have you

read

any of my walls yet, if you like walls?

Anyways, I've read up on everything and have decided on a few things.

I'm going to rephrase question #3. If you've

read

the game, why haven't you commented on anything? Surely there's enough content to comment on.

I will answer these since they were directed at my slot, and I am answering them as-of reading the end of Page 2, so the answers should reflect the same time you were asking them Keep that in mind:
1. I actually rather agreed with it, I found that Justin's willy-nillyness to change his votes so quickly in RVS relatively disconcerting, so he was the scummier of the three on the wagon (although none of them were more than SUPERnull-leaning slightscum). I don't agree with the FoS on the wagon starter. People who start wagons are never as scummy as those that TURN it into a wagon, unless the person starting it is actually TRYING to make it a wagon.
2. I believe you both do. You for making unnecessary walls, but you stated this is your meta, which makes it a null-tell but still wanting my vote for policy's sake, unless you show some blinding tell of townieness. So I would vote you if you were close to a lynching block, even if you were a null-tell of mine. Paraffin is scummy for directly admitting to not reading your posts, then voting you anyways.
3. I have read/skimmed all of your walls (read early on and skimmed the last one or two), as this is just an initial read. Once I get more in-depth I will actually try to ISO everyone and such.

Spoiler: Princess Kiwi Dialogue

You attack paraffin for this, but not gman. Why?

Decent point, I would like an explanation as well.

Jason gave an explanation. What do you think of it?

And no, they weren't. They provided me with an idea as to who was coasting, as previously stated in this post. How is it off?

Because scum could have answered your random questions as easily as town. There was nothing in there that would incriminate them, or even push much pressure on them later on. Not immediately answering them is a nulltell, and it felt like a reach to try and put pressure on players that didn't answer them right away.

Also, I even declared that Jason looked really town in what you quoted, but you seem to have dropped the "defending Jason" stance. Why?

Also, why is it that you seem to put pressure on people when they attack you? When I voted you, you said that I was "buddying up" to Jason. When Thad voted you, you said that he was "pushing too hard", and when I agreed with his case, you implied that I had a connection with Thad.

ceonn

: Why didn't you post your thoughts on the game when you posted earlier? What ARE your thoughts on the game thus far? Who's scum? Why aren't you voting anyone?

For putting this in Spoiler you just got towniepoints from me. ♥.♥ Wall replies to walls that are spoilered are a godsend.
To answer your question, IDK why he wasn't replying and I won't use my vote until I have completely caught up. My thought so far is I dislike paraffin and Princess Whatshername, and I want to know what happened with Descent that deserved the triple-vote wagon.

going back to reading now
----------
Post #66: paraffin is scummy before reading it, due to COMPLAINING OF WALLS, then TYPING A WALL. Now I'll actually read it to see what it contains.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=18951

Possible scum-partners? He obviously has never met scum-Maruchan. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... overview=1 I replaced in with 7 full pages, was the first post on Page 8, and I was STILL the most verbose player in the game (as scum).
Also, he says he will post his "reads", did anyone notice ALL of his reads were scum? Did he not have any town reads? Or does he not consider town-reads are important enough to be contained in a list of his reads? I find scum are more-likely to give scum-read lists containing no-to-little town-reads to save having to cal la town-read a scum-read later. Town are more inclined to post both. Town-hunting is almost as important as Scum-hunting, due to PoE, and eliminating who to use night-abilities on (albeit there are no night abilities in this game, any good town-player would still town-hunt due to it being engrained in them as the right thing to do)
----------
I don't like Kiwi's list in #67. in #38, she told us she has no reads as of yet, and in her in-between posts I didn't see her making any FoSes or IGMEOYs or general pointing out a scum-tells.
Although I do like the list format for her reads. Thats my favorite format for reads. With explanations following of course.

Plus you made a scum-team prediction (your reasons on Paraffin). I will not mention how much I HATE scum-team predictions. Perhaps Lane will fill you in.

I hope your scum-read on my slot has changed since you realized he flaked rather than he lurked? (I assume he flaked. Did he flake? or did he request replacement?)
@Paraffin's #70 is showing summor hypocrisy. At least Princess' walls involves quotes and replies, so they look longer, but have less word-count, where as yours are plain wall-o-text
@Descent's #74 is nice. I like it alot, and agree.
ON TO PAGE FOUR!!!
----------

I think it's interesting that everyone was voting paraffin and waiting for him to come back and defend himself. Right away he unvoted to save himself and make good with Princesskiwi who is a strong player in this game. This seems fishy to me.

FoS: Paraffin

VOTE: Paraffin

What changed, and why didn't you tell us why you changed your FoS to a vote? Votes without explanations are town's worst enemy.

ceoon, still waiting on answers to my questions in post #53, and a defense to my case against you in post #67.

Calling that a case (based off of two posts) would be insulting to cases everywhere.

I can't really say if Paraffin is scum. There are some lurkers(noticeably malpascp, who posted in another two threads but not this one) who I am also suspicious of, and more so than Paraffin. Still, it makes sense to keep the pressure on him until we a. get concrete evidence against him b. find a convincing case on anyone else

Straddling the fence adds you to my scum-reads at this point. especially when you unvoted, and revoted immediately.
Paraffin's #93 wall is AtE, sarcasm, and misinterpreting things people say. he is so far my scummiest read. Princess is getting townier, but I still wish she'd wall-o-text it less.
Lovin your #97 Zach. Thats what I have been saying this whole wall!
HALFWAY!!! ONTO PAGE FIVE!
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malp your #100 sucks, paraffin your #101 is so idiotic i want to smack you so hard right now. YOU want him to post before he sleeps? Who gives a rats ass what YOU want. If I want to sleep, and its late, I will sleep. If you don't like that, GO PLAY FACE2FACE MAFIA. Or perhaps you'd enjoy http://www.epicmafia.com -.-
Thanks for the warning in #106, I really appreciated it. -skips-
Lane's #114 reminds me of the Amish-Tell I have heard about. What do you mean by taking into consideration how your predecessor feels? Your predecessor's play only matters if you are scum, or a PR. As this game has no PRs, it shouldn't matter.
Smear's #117 screams scum. He is following the active wagon like flies on a cowpie.
Malp, your #121 semi-catch up post is to answer 4 questions thrown directly at you, 2 posts earlier. no other comments?
END OF PAGE FIVE.
Scum reads from greatest to weakest: Smear, paraffin, lane, malp.
Town reads from strangoest to weakest: Princess Wahtsherbucket, Descent
Null: Everyone else who is such a low-influence so far I can't remember your names.
----------
Lane, your first-content post of the day, and you claim. Claiming ONLY helps scum at this point. nobody was suspicious of you that I had seen, and you were nowhere CLOSE to a lynch. why claim regular townie?
Smear is still scum.
Godawful amount of "Sorry I was..."'s this page.
ENDOFPAGE 6
----------
malps i need more content from you. your posts suck.
----------
page8

VOTE: Smear

L-1

nobody can use the excuse they didn't realize now.

[Zachrulez]

Need to catch up with the game, will do that tomorrow.

Don't expect my previously stated positions to change much though.

[Descent]

Spoiler: A word from Lane which I find disturbing

Sorry, I've been distracted a lot these past few days. Anyways, I've read up on everything and have decided on a few things.
1. The non-newbie games are a lot more text heavy. (something I like, mind you)
2. ...

I would just like to make a list, to sum up this wall post, for future reference, as to the currently most active players in order of most activity to least activity.

Jason- 8 posts thus far
Princess Kiwi- 5 posts (including this one) thus far
Paraffin- 4 posts thus far
smear- 3 posts thus far
AlgorixalTyphoon- 3 posts thus far
Zachrules- 2 posts thus far
Antb- 2 posts thus far
malpascp- 2 posts thus far
descent- one post thus far
ceonn- one post thus far
ThAdmiral- one post thus far
GMan- one post thus far
Princesskdw- zero posts thus far

I find it strange how ceonn, and ThAdmiral only made entry posts, without answering the RQS (despite being just a few posts prior), or providing insight as to the going-ons of the game. Shows that they haven't really read the game, and are 'just' making appearances to avoid the lurking suspicion? Hmmm...

That is rather accurate of you, to a point. I admit I didn't eye-ball the thread much before making my post as I was short on time before. I assure you though, I have time now, and will get right to those questions now.

1. Alaska

2. I prefer them.

3. Town. It's much more relaxed that way, as having power makes me too nervous to make a good move, and at times before when I've been mafia I again get too nervous to make a clear night kill, much less keep myself from making a mistake.

this was 4 days ago? ceonn's second post? where is ceonn?

anyways, i can't get into shit right now. that was a long ass 5 pages.

i'll be much more active than princesskdw (who was regular town btw)

with posts coming everyday. tomorrow i'll do some iso's, skim some shit and do a review, i just can't start into it now. not for lack of time, just for this burning in my eyes.

i'll try and have more reasoning tomorrow, but here are first impressions.
i didnt like para at first. I took it as an rvs vote when he said we were out of rvs. but after my reading, i feel better about him.

very confident that princess kiwi is town.

i dont like smear, the unvote vote? seems like he was caught. the unvote would be looked at alone, being so quick, but the unvote vote, thats a whole new level.

malpascp? why havent you unvoted yourself yet?

town vibes from jason, not so much his early game, but more recently.

same with gman, besides the early game and recently part

algor, zachrulez, descent, havent figured out how to read his posts.

one apology was for unconciously starting to skim kiwis posts there at the end after i had a town read. i need to go back and read her and paraffins discussion a lot more closely tomorrow.

vote:ceonn

I find this disturbing, the part I bolded. It was basically a claim, when there was no need to claim. Lane, can you explain why you just threw that extra tidbit of information in there all willy-nilly?

Also, still looking at Smear scum; however, I hope he has not given up trying to clear his name, it might help us in the long run.

[Descent]

Posted too quickly. Sorry for quoting the entire post, just wanted to make sure I didn't get it out of context.

And Hello Maruchan!

[Maruchan]

Spoiler: A word from Lane which I find disturbing

Sorry, I've been distracted a lot these past few days. Anyways, I've read up on everything and have decided on a few things.
1. The non-newbie games are a lot more text heavy. (something I like, mind you)
2. ...

I would just like to make a list, to sum up this wall post, for future reference, as to the currently most active players in order of most activity to least activity.

Jason- 8 posts thus far
Princess Kiwi- 5 posts (including this one) thus far
Paraffin- 4 posts thus far
smear- 3 posts thus far
AlgorixalTyphoon- 3 posts thus far
Zachrules- 2 posts thus far
Antb- 2 posts thus far
malpascp- 2 posts thus far
descent- one post thus far
ceonn- one post thus far
ThAdmiral- one post thus far
GMan- one post thus far
Princesskdw- zero posts thus far

I find it strange how ceonn, and ThAdmiral only made entry posts, without answering the RQS (despite being just a few posts prior), or providing insight as to the going-ons of the game. Shows that they haven't really read the game, and are 'just' making appearances to avoid the lurking suspicion? Hmmm...

That is rather accurate of you, to a point. I admit I didn't eye-ball the thread much before making my post as I was short on time before. I assure you though, I have time now, and will get right to those questions now.

1. Alaska

2. I prefer them.

3. Town. It's much more relaxed that way, as having power makes me too nervous to make a good move, and at times before when I've been mafia I again get too nervous to make a clear night kill, much less keep myself from making a mistake.

this was 4 days ago? ceonn's second post? where is ceonn?

anyways, i can't get into shit right now. that was a long ass 5 pages.

i'll be much more active than princesskdw (who was regular town btw)

with posts coming everyday. tomorrow i'll do some iso's, skim some shit and do a review, i just can't start into it now. not for lack of time, just for this burning in my eyes.

i'll try and have more reasoning tomorrow, but here are first impressions.
i didnt like para at first. I took it as an rvs vote when he said we were out of rvs. but after my reading, i feel better about him.

very confident that princess kiwi is town.

i dont like smear, the unvote vote? seems like he was caught. the unvote would be looked at alone, being so quick, but the unvote vote, thats a whole new level.

malpascp? why havent you unvoted yourself yet?

town vibes from jason, not so much his early game, but more recently.

same with gman, besides the early game and recently part

algor, zachrulez, descent, havent figured out how to read his posts.

one apology was for unconciously starting to skim kiwis posts there at the end after i had a town read. i need to go back and read her and paraffins discussion a lot more closely tomorrow.

vote:ceonn

I find this disturbing, the part I bolded. It was basically a claim, when there was no need to claim. Lane, can you explain why you just threw that extra tidbit of information in there all willy-nilly?

Also, still looking at Smear scum; however, I hope he has not given up trying to clear his name, it might help us in the long run.

For those who READ my wall, I addressed this in it.

[Maruchan]

And hello to you too Descent!