Newbie 1151 ÔÇô Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

Isa has already explained that his problem with Xeras was because Xeras was suspicious of Racerman based on "one (1) post". It had nothing to do with quality or length - it was the quantity that was the issue. And Isa also criticised Xeras's explanation for this ("gut") while saying that he agreed with your point on Stels based on gut.

I am not mistaking any contextual differences here.

The only question now is why Isa hasn't voted Stels and seems to have skepticism at my vote on him, which isn't a bad question, but does not make Isa scum or scummy.

Isa is all talk. If Isa really believed in a Stels/muffin scum team, he'd be voting Stels right now.

[Krazy]

Let's review Stels. Iso 0:

Buddying to Krazy. =/ Ranmaru ninja'd me by miles.

I fucked up. Me and Lord are leaving the site. Bye.

WTF? Even if you did fuck up with you posting from Meransiel (assuming you are Lord). It's not such a serious offense as to leave the site.

VOTE: Lord. Paranoia, buddying, false crediting. Kinda didn't want to vote after 'that' ^^

This is the "case" on Lord. There are three reasons listed "Paranoida, buddying, false crediting." Of these, one (buddying) is based on something that was not "scum-buddying", a comment that made no sense of scum-buddying. However, the "Ranmaru ninja'd me by miles comment" is odd--as Ranmaru did not say that Lord was scummy for that comment, instead, Ranmaru asked Lord to expand on the comment because it was so strange and the meaning was unclear. Stels projects suspicion from Ranmaru on to Lord's comment.

The other one is "Paranoia" but--Paranoia about what? Paranoia about leaving the site and whether he would get banned for having an alt in a newbie game? Yeah, Meransiel is paranoid... but not in such a way that it gives any indication of scum-behavior in this game.

I don't even understand "false crediting" but the entire post and entire case is, to use muffin's terms, bullshit. This is a scum post.


Iso 1:

@Krazy: meh, whatever makes you happy =/

Downplaying.

[quote="In post 105Ho~ mixed feelings on Lord? Why not sort that out?[/quote]

Deflecting.

[quote="In post 105
I think you're just going for the easy target right now. Very IC-like.[/quote]

1 - Stels is not and never has been an easy target.
2 - "Very IC-like." = AtE.

However, all the above on Iso 2 is mostly just annoying, but is not inherently scummy, but this is:

[quote="In Do you policy-lynch lurkers/flakers?[/quote]

No one was talking about policy-lynching, and bringing it up to get me off his wagon is purely scummy.

Also note that, on the whole, Iso 1 is just an extremely poor reaction post to my suspicion. There was and is

NO

town-reason that Stels would want to downplay/deflect my case on him.

Let's move on to iso 2.

I'm wondering why you use your weak gut-based case on someone who only posted once,

instead of going along with the current game and it's current players.

It's like you just went the easy way since you don't know where your vote should go to in situations like these.

I've explained multiple times why this is easily the scummiest statement by anyone in the game to date. Not only is it pure deflection, it is deflection that actively encourages not pursuing scum-leads, and shows the play that Stels has followed this game of sheeping when convenient and OMGUSing out of necessity.

[quote="In

I hate giving Mafia lessons to people, but here's one: there is no point in buddying someone if you don't know what his reads are yet as you might disagree with them (yes, this can happen EVEN if you are scum).

WIFOM. Disagreement can lead to agreement. Buddying with different reads makes it more believable that you're not scum. Still WIFOM.
[/quote]

This was never WIFOM from Lord but Stels does need an excuse to stay on his wagon. I see only scum reasoning from Stels here, and little to no town-reasoning.

[quote="In
Why are we considering this? Your vote is on me. Are we flip-flopping here? Your ISO never showed any signs toward this analysis.
[/quote]

I've explained why this is the second scummiest statement this game. Stels reveals that he has the following mentalities in this game:
1 - Any suspicion or speculation must necessarily be followed by a vote (a mentality that almost exclusively comes from scum as they need it to control the game and as an excuse to pressure people off their team-mates given certain situations)
2 - That there are wrong points in the game to speculate about scum-teams. (NOTE RANMARU: NOT THE SAME THING AS DAY 1 CHAINSAWS--ANY SPECULATION ABOUT SCUM TEAMS AT ALL)

Iso 3 is fluff.

Iso 4:

Sheeping isn't what you should have done, you should have been

contributing to the current game while I posted more of my thoughts as I only posted once

, instead of going down

the easy way out

, that being my point. Sheeping actually

would have helped you keep face

though if that was the only thing that you consider after reading my question.

1 - Implies he is not part of the current game, that he is outside it; moreover, suggests that I should not do anything to get a better read on him, and seems uninterested in getting a read on me (not that Ranmaru would notice something like this).
2 - Implies once again that pushing on him is an "easy way out" -- it doesn't make any more sense this time around. Paranoid, desperate scum grasping at straws.
3 - Tries to imply I should be more concerned with "keeping face" than finding scum.

So if you think that Isa is scum along with Lord, you should have followed that up with a vote in that situation instead of continuing this pointless charade.

-Implies my case on him is a "charade." Continued downplay, and the above mentality that I have above explained is scum-reasoning.

Claims are nice and all, but claims in newbie games, especially D1 are usually laughed at no matter the claim. I don't think you would have believed Lord either way if he claimed a PR or VT. Your vote would have stayed.

-Tries to imply that shock at Xeras hammering was scummy; it wasn't. The only point of claiming is that, if someone is a PR, that the town can re-assess the situation, so the "either way if he claimed a PR or VT your vote would have stayed" is just quite frankly a downright lie.

No town would say this.

Krazy - <3
Xeras - Badhammer, Quicklynch, Reasoning

Johhog - gut

...

VOTE: Krazy

At no point in the game has Stels translated what I have said from being mistaken (if Stels was town) into scum-reasoning. He has tried to claim opportunism, but this was a lie and completely baseless.

Without that, this vote is purely OMGUS.

Next post:

IIRC or something along those lines, no one asked to hammer Lord yet, therefore you are at fault here.

Stels does not want to deflect the wagon off of Xeras because if Xeras is lynched on D2 then Stels will not be; so Stels quietly pushes the Xeras lynch while continuing to deflect and tunnel on me, albeit quietly and poorly so that the leading wagon is not derailed.

Negative. Trying to guess what the scum teams and D1, especially 10 pages into the day is definitely not a good and definitely not the time to talk about it. If your reads change constantly, then what's the purpose of discussing these scum teams if one or the other or both people that you believe to be scum are constantly switching? D1 we have no information and you already want to talk about scum teams?

We have the information provided by people voting and speaking. Stels doesn't want to scum-hunt or discuss scum teams because if Stels was forced to speculate on why certain people would or would not be scum-teams then he might give away his ally. Instead, he does tactics like making a "list" which only includes three people, so he can't be tied down to a town-read on a player if he reaches lylo.

This is (and the vote post on me) scum playing toward the end-game.

The next few posts are mostly fluff and/or I have responded to them above.

This doozy seals the deal:

As an IC, I don't think he would endanger town with such an early vote in LyLo, so I think that would make it plausible and

undeniably true

that Krazy is in fact scum. The other suspect is still out there somewhere, but my read stands unfaltering.
Treat that as WIFOM, and I know it is WIFOM, but I'm betting my money on this.

Scum want to find a single piece of "undeniably true" (aka bullshit) evidence so that they don't have to assess all the players in the game or look for all the tells present. As it is, Stels, YET, does not have a SINGLE town-tell. Every single post I have discussed has betrayed an anti-town mentality. The number of scum-tells here is just dumbfounding. I have no idea how this slot is still alive.

Stels.

Is.

Scum.

LYNCH IT.

FUCKING READ THE POSTS PEOPLE.

[Krazy]

Holy hell some tags got broken in the middle there.

[Uite]

• Votecount 3.3
  
  
  [
  1
  ]
  Stels
  ~
  Krazy
  
  [
  1
  ]
  Isa
  ~
  zMuffinMan
  
  
  
  Not voting:
  
  
  Isa
  ,
  Ranmaru
  ,
  Stels
  
  
  
• With
  5
  alive, it takes
  3
  to lynch
  
• Deadline for Day 3 is Monday, 26 September 2011, at 21:00 CEST (UTC+2)

[Isa]

Activity seems to be running low. I know that I am to blame for this - my excuse is that university life is harsh on me.

I want to hear Krazy's stand on me, and why I went from being a potential scum at day 1 to 0% chance of being scum by the end of day 2. Also, stance on Ranmaru and zMuffinMan.
Furthermore, I want to know zMuffinMan's stance on Krazy and Stels stance on me, Ranmaru and zMuffinMan.

[Krazy]

I want to hear Krazy's stand on me

That is contingent on your response to my case on Stels and in regard to Stels himself. Which several people have now asked for, especially Ranmaru, multiple times.

[zMuffinMan]

@Isa,

Krazy is probably town, mostly based on PoE and relation tells between you and Stels. Even independent of my Isa-Stels suspicion, Krazy's actually putting

effort

into the game and Stels is not. I like his case on Stels. Right now I'm waiting to see how you react to the Stels-Krazy situation because you're totally fence-sitting. Stels was your #1 suspicion coming into today, but when Krazy puts a vote on Stels, it's suddenly, "well, Krazy is scummy for doing that... I'm not really sure" and I think you're just stalling until Ranmaru puts a vote on Krazy or something so you and Stels can quicklynch him.

I may have started rambling somewhere in that paragraph. Lack of sleep lately.

[Isa]

I obviously still believe that your case is sound, Krazy, or I'd state that I didn't believe it to be so. You'd be a sure townie for me hadn't it been for the quick vote in LyLo.

However, it's been a long while since that vote was put, and no quicklynch has occurred. So one of you two guys are scum (I highly doubt that Krazy has bussed his partner since day 1 without succeeding, but still holds tight to it). Now, I am not scum, and a quicklynch has not happened on me either. So therefore, zMuffinMan should be scum. It's now up to me to think about whom of you is your partner. I believe it to be Stels. Also, one thing should be made clear - Ranmaru is almost confirmed town. If he was scum along with Krazy/Stels, we'd have a quicklynch on me. If he was scum along with zMuffinMan/me, we'd have a quicklynch on Stels. This isn't confirmed just yet though due to his lack of activity.

At the end of the day my vote will go to zMuffinMan or Stels, because I can't really find myself to be voting Krazy at the end of the day unless he'll make some kind of scumslip.

[Krazy]

Isa, Ranmaru's absence of the game incidentally means the lack of a quick lynch does not actually clear him. The scum cannot execute a quicklynch if one of the players present doesn't post such that they are online at the same time. I mean if you really want to get into it, the only team that's 100% confirmed not to be a scumteam is you and Muffin, since otherwise Stels would be dead when you did the "Yes/no/yes" thing yesterday. In other contexts, that might have been the cue to setup a quicklynch (a way of saying "we are both here, and ready to vote"). That you did not pursue it means that Isa/Muffin is 0% likelihood to be the scumteam. Hurray!

Doesn't matter though, because Stels is still scum.

[Stels]

Stels has never, at least to my satisfaction, explained why my suspicion of him is not incorrect instead of scummy.

Stels has never, at least to my satisfaction, explained why my suspicion of him is correct instead of scummy.
Double negatives ftw.

Sorry, you have to understand personal reasons. It's not an excuse, true, I can't hide behind it forever, but hey, the fact that your stupidity is leading you into a corner yourself, is just very funny. I enjoy all these moments spent with town and the giggles we shared, especially Krazy. He made me laugh the most.
Btw, in case you didn't notice, I'm acting annoying just to piss you off Krazy. It's nothing personal, but the level of idiocy in your posts is outrageous. Your logic doesn't make sense. The way you act is the epitome of every scum that I've seen in MS (over-exaggeration, but at least more than half have acted the same way that Krazy has and flipped scum).
Also, about half the stuff you've done indicates you're scum.

[Stels]

Oh, Krazy's top quote on my previous post means that he wanted me to say that hiss suspicion of me is correct, wtf?

[Stels]

Oh, Krazy's top quote on my previous post means that he wanted me to say that hiss suspicion of me is correct, wtf?

[zMuffinMan]

Are you really picking at a minor grammar error?

[Uite]

Ranmaru

has been prodded. As for the other players, please try to keep up the pace.

[Isa]

I'm waiting for Ranmaru to return/be replaced before I put my vote down.

However, Stels and Krazy, why don't you answer my #404 please.

[Krazy]

It's possible Muffin is floating his vote on you, Isa, so that he can wait for Ranmaru to possibly vote me, so that Stels and himself can lynch me for a win. Muffin voting Stels would relieve this concern quite a bit.

I think it's slightly more likely that Ranmaru is Stels' partner, sees the sinking ship in Stels and is trying to lurk his way to 3-way and shrug off doubts then. More he says today, the more chance there is it will come back to haunt him tomorrow.

I listed you as 0% likelihood of being scum because I saw no way that you could backpedal out of voting Stels today. Your current fence-sitting is a bit disconcerting (Muffin's vote is a bit eh, but I'm not sure how you can see it as comparable to Stels' play throughout the game), but I'm still pretty sure you're town.

Honestly my reads for 3-way will be based largely on votes today, since this is really the moment of decision, and before things play out I haven't really ruled anyone out as being partners with Stels. I do not, however, think it is confirmed that there is scum between you and muffin just because of muffin's vote, with both Stels and Ranmaru being pretty lurky.

Who is scummier? Ranmaru who actively defends Stels, or Eps/Muffin and Isa who keep somehow getting another candidate ahead of him? No way to be certain, and I will let the votes speak for themselves for today.

[Ranmaru]

Sorry guys. I will post later, I am in class right now. : D

[Ranmaru]

And when I mean later, I mean tonite.

[zMuffinMan]

@Krazy,

I'm not voting Stels just to 'relieve your concerns'.

On a side note, it's ridiculous that we have two players who are continually doing nothing but prod-dodging

Unvote

Krazy, tell me what you think of the Isa+Stels possibility.

[Krazy]

It is more likely today than it was yesterday, but still the least likely of the three scenarios I'm looking at. In regard to Stels, the only post I really had issue with was the first wall until today, when he's holding off on voting Stels. After all, technically he could be waiting for Ranmaru to vote me just as easily as you could, I suppose, so that when Stels came in and pushed me to L-1 he could quickhammer. It's not impossible. I just don't think it's that likely right now.

And I wasn't saying you should vote Stels just to relieve my concerns; simply that if you did, it would. You should vote Stels because Stels is the mafia.

[Ranmaru]

Ok, about the scumteams thing, I think you have a point. I concede to that, because asking if two people might be scum together is harmless.

I just hard looked at you because of your initial push on Stels. I see he hasn’t really pushed for you, and has only FoS’d you after I did. I do not think a picture would suffice to show his reads.

Vote: Stels

[zMuffinMan]

FINALLY

HOLY CRAP I'VE BEEN WAITING DAYS

VOTE: Stels

[Krazy]

Seriously? With Ranmaru or with Isa?

[Krazy]

With Ranmaru right?

[Krazy]

Well

unvote

if for any reason there was a glitch in the system. I doubt there was though.