The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[Empking]

This little bit of fluff caused me to look at the Empking ISO and compare it to Empking Town in Jungle Republic and Empking Scum in [REDACTED] and A Song of Fire and Ice.

Jungle Republic is not representive of my town play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Jungle Republic is not representive of my town play.

Lulz. You were Town in that game. Care to explain how it isn't representative again?

You pretty much instant pop-up when called out despite an ISO full of non-scumhunting and fluff does tell me that I'm probably right. Thanks for that!

[Empking]

Jungle Republic is not representive of my town play.

Lulz. You were Town in that game. Care to explain how it isn't representative again?

Because I don't normally catch scum early while being essentially unlynchable.

You pretty much instant pop-up when called out despite an ISO full of non-scumhunting and fluff does tell me that I'm probably right.

Explain the logic here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because I don't normally catch scum early while being essentially unlynchable.

Did you seroiusly type this?

1. You spent as much time going after Town (me) as you did scum (Andrew). And both were basically for OMGUS reasons.
2. The only reason you were not lynched is that you claimed Seer. You would have been the lynch Day 1 for certain if not.

Also ... while waiting for your response I looked over several other Town games ISOs of yours.

I still see Empking scum.

[Empking]

2. The only reason you were not lynched is that you claimed Seer. You would have been the lynch Day 1 for certain if not.

Or to put it in another way "I was essentially unlynchable"? You seem to be disagreeing just to disagree (Your first point is objectively a lie if anyone would bother to look. Was there even a player called "Andrew" in the game?)

Also,

Explain the logic here.

like I asked you to.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Or to put it in another way "I was essentially unlynchable"? You seem to be disagreeing just to disagree (Your first point is objectively a lie if anyone would bother to look. Was there even a player called "Andrew" in the game?)

Also,
Explain the logic here.
like I asked you to.

You are right. I meant Neil. I guess I got my hack players mixed up in my head since I've played with Andrew more recently. And my first point is clearly not objectively a lie. Would you like me to pull the myriad of quotes where you call me scum and vote for me there?

The logic is that you are scum skating by on fluff but popped up almost immediately to say "Hey, that's not my Town meta" when I called you out. Who has more reason to try to undermine a read that isn't even accompanied by a vote yet? Scum.

[Empking]

The logic is that you are scum skating by on fluff but popped up almost immediately to say "Hey, that's not my Town meta" when I called you out. Who has more reason to try to undermine a read that isn't even accompanied by a vote yet? Scum.

Oh please don't by calling it "a read" as if I'm trying to discredit a town read on another player.

If I'm scum then pointing ouit your mistake was pro-scum. If I'm town then its pro-town. Its pretty much the definition of null.

(and it is objectively a lie because I never called Andrew scum in that game.)

[Furcolow]

boys, calm down

[Plum]

'You speak of secrecy, and say that therein lies the only hope; but could you ambush and waylay every scout and spy of Morgoth to the last and least, so that none came ever back with tidings to Angband, yet from that he would learn that you lived and guess where. And this also I say: though mortal Men have little life beside the span of the Elves, they would rather spend it in battle than fly or submit. The defiance of Húrin Thalion is a great deed; and though Morgoth slay the doer he cannot make the deed not to have been. Even the Lords of the West will honour it; and is it not written into the history of Arda, which neither Morgoth nor Manwë can unwrite?'

The Children of Húrin (161)

VOTE COUNT #1.5

gandalf5166 - 3 - kanyeknowsbest, Sun and Moon, SpyreX
kanyeknowsbest - 2 - Will-o-wisp, mockingjaye
Katsuki -

7

- Mastermind of Sin, MagnaofIllusion, Empking, LordChronos, Gut, Andrius, gandalf5166
LordChronos - 4 - Ellibereth, Magister Ludi, VitaminR, Katsuki
Will-o-wisp - 1 - Furcolow
Andrius - 1 - PeregrineV

Not Voting (4): Chronopie, Dekes, Wraith, Espeonage

With 22 alive it will take 12 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 will be in approximately (but no less than) 11 days and will be exactly determined soon.

Dekes and LordChronos have been prodded. Everyone else passes, if only on technicalities, and for the first prod-sweep I'm not being stringent beyond the letter of the rules. Next time I may well decide to be strict, so please try to stay active!

[Empking]

Katsuki - 7 - Mastermind of Sin, MagnaofIllusion, Empking, LordChronos, Gut,

Andrius, gandalf5166

Good wagon though in general.

[Wraith]

Okay, going to experiment with stream-of-reading scumreads.

End of Page 5

Town

Furcolow

- Typical Furc play, mostly being a overreacting idiot

Andrius

- Actually realized what a trollclaim is and explained it to everyone else.

Empking

- While he was aggressive against gandalf's trollclaim and realclaim he actually tried to find out more info before pushing the quicklynch

Scum

SpyRex

- Tried to start a wagon on the obvious trollclaim. Not much, but it was pretty obviously a trollclaim and gandalf was obviously not-scum for pulling it

Kanye

- Strongest scumread, tried to lynch the obvious trollclaim, pushed for quicklynch without even trying to gather more info, playing generally anti-town

Third Party

Gandalf

- I'm guessing his abilities/wincon will be gradually revealed over time. At the moment I'm inclined to believe he is town. Trollclaiming aside, he's probably by strongest town-er...not-scumread

Everyone else neutral

End of Page 10

Town

MoS

- Understands that the gandalf wagon is scumdriven and almost reacts appropriately. He's really sheeping though so possibly subject to change in the future.

Chronopie

- Understands Gandalf is not anti-town

Furcolow

- Remains active but stupid. scumFurc is more lurkly IIRC

Magister Ludi

- Scumhunts, smart, and to the point

MoI

- Enters with a proper townie bang.

Gandalf

- Gandalf is probably Turin Turambar IMO. I don't think he's Third Party, I think he's Townie Amnesiac or whatever it's called. He doesn't know his alignment but is actually aligned with town.

Andrius

- Same as gandalf except I think he is Turin's sister (forgot her name). Vice versa is possible too.

Scum

Espeonage

- Some of your posts rub me the wrong way. Gut.

SpyRex

- Unchanged

Katsuki

- Appears out of nowhere to push for a gandalf quicklynch. Refer to earlier logic about gandalf alignment and stupidity of quicklynching him

KKB

- Continues to post little more than "Lynch Gandalf cuz" and snide one-liners. Strongest scumread

More setup speculation BTW: Seraphs are obviously Morgoth (scum) and Hurin (town). Hurin was captured by Morgoth in one of the battles and forced to watch his ancestors destroy themselves under a curse from Thangorodrim (which is Morogoth's fortress).

Vote Kanye

Easy scumlynch. At this point it probably looks like I'm wagoning since he already has a large wagon, but I'm only halfway done with my reread and I see it. I'll start another post to finish the reread now.

[Wraith]

End of Page 15

Town

Gandalf

- Unchanged. Strongest.

Andrius

- Unchanged. Strong

Furc

- Unchanged. Strong

Magister Ludi

- Continues to scumhunt well but pushes wierd wagons. Strong.

MoI

- Unchanged. Strong.

MoS

- Not particularly scummy but not the towniest sheep ever. Average.

Empking

- Unchanged. Average.

LC

- While he was kind of pressured into posting his posts feel very townie to me. The wagon that emerged on his is very scumdriven. Average.

Scum

Espeonage

- Unchanged. Weakest.

Ellibereth

- Appears and advocates for a random lurkerlynch. Do more please. Weak.

VitaminR

- Same as Ellibereth except he jumped on the scumdriven wagon instead of starting it. Weak.

Sun and Moon

- Lurks, appears, votes gandalf stupidly and does little else. Average.

Spyrex

- Pushed lower for joining the dumb lurkerlynch wagon instead of the obvscum wagons. Average.

Katsuki

- Forgot to add my dislike of his flame-off with MoI instead of doing something useful or even defending himself properly. Also jumped on the LC lurkerlynch wagon. Strong.

KKB

- Unchanged. Strongest.

WoW is a good vig target, as he's antagonizing obvtown players for non-game-related reasons.

End of Page 20

Town

Gandalf

- Unchanged. Strongest.

Andrius

- Unchanged. Strong

Furc

- Remains stupid, goes after WoW based on what feels like a "You flame me i mad." This is meta-supported. Strong

Magister Ludi

- Despite staying on the LC wagon after his reasons for voting LC are moot, I think he's one of the town who is falling for a scumdriven wagon. Strong.

MoI

- Unchanged. Strong.

Empking

- Unchanged. Average.

LC

- Unchanged. Average.

MoS

- Falls in the standings for not actually reading the game but attempting to appear so. Weakest.

Scum

Ellibereth

- Unchanged. Weak.

VitaminR

- Unchanged. Weak.

Sun and Moon

- Unchanged. Average.

Spyrex

- Unchanged. Average.

Katsuki/Feysal

- Unchanged. Strong.

KKB

- Unchanged. Strongest.

The wagons on LC and Gandalf are scumdriven. I will join any lynch on KKB, Katsuki/Feysal, or Spyrex today without needing to be persuaded.

[SpyreX]

The wagons on LC and Gandalf are scumdriven. I will join any lynch on KKB, Katsuki/Feysal, or Spyrex today without needing to be persuaded.

Is "lynch" code for "give a wonderful party to the most wonderful person"?

I'm magnificent in all ways and can do no wrong.
Kat's town and that "replacement" was pure irritation that I'd bet my life is from town.
KKB

is still right about wanting them to be dead

.

Both of them. If I could lynch myself to make both of them dead I would because it will be a net gain.

I can't though because I'd break a nail and that is just soooo uncool.

If that's not going to happen I'm going to implore the wagons to consolidate against this Kat wagon. Be it gandalf, will of the wisp or LC.

All of those are far, far better choices.

[Furcolow]

Wraith, it is very possible that a player like MoI, Andrius, MoS who is good has eluded your scumhunting judgment

[Gut]

Unvote, vote: SpyreX

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wait, I'm attempting to appear like I'm reading the game? I demand evidence of this accusation!

[Wraith]

Wraith, it is very possible that a player like MoI, Andrius, MoS who is good has eluded your scumhunting judgment

That's for me to judge at a later day.

[Will-o-wisp]

Wait, I'm attempting to appear like I'm reading the game? I demand evidence of this accusation!

look out the bg guy in town.

Wraith, why are we a good vig shot? Who have we been antagonizing? Also, what is your comment about Gandalf. I fail to see how that singular thing made him town to you when a few others said the same thing.

[Will-o-wisp]

bah

ebwop:

big and - Oversoul

- Oversoul (I fail at this signing post thing)

[Ellibereth]

almost doneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
finish line

[Dekes]

Ludi probably town.
Andy probably town.
Andy maybe town.
gand probably town.
Espeo maybe town.
VitaminR probably town.


kanye bah.
Spyrex bah.
Chronopie bah.
Pere bah.

Emp maaaybe town.
Oversoul meeeh.

Wraith. Dunno.

Katsuki. I don't care.
Furcolow. I don't care.

Alright, I'm caught up now and established some reads as I read along.

Regarding the main wagons:
- I'm not ready to vote Katsuki's slot yet. He may be scum, but I tend to skim Katsuki's useless posts and it's easy to call him scum based on that.

- The LC-wagon seems only a bit better. I didn't like the timing his humungous catch-up post at a moment, when the gandalf-Andrius fiasco was dying down and people started looking elsewhere. However, I don't see the obvscumminess in him and it still looks like a lazy wagon.

- Why is there still a gandalf wagon? Unless gandalf is in cahoots with Andy I don't see how he could coordinate to match up his claim similarly to Andy's. And Andy has a very townie approach so far.

Tl, dr: I don't agree with any of the wagons that are up for voting. I don't like how PeregrineV has gotten no heat so far for his scummy posts. Same with WoW (

@Andy

, where do you get the town read on them?), Wraith, SaM, ChronoPie and Spyrex. Yap, a lot of lurker and few people on the main wagons, as I believe Kats and LC are easy wagons on "always-good-lynches" that don't need a necessary push from scum. Iffy on Kanye.

Vote: PeregrineV

[Dekes]

Lol, shit. Those reads were added as I read along. They're not actually supposed to be in that post.

[Will-o-wisp]

almost doneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
finish line

Any insights into the game now that you have caught up, please?

Ludi probably town.
Andy probably town.
Andy maybe town.
gand probably town.

Espeo maybe town.
VitaminR probably town.

kanye bah.
Spyrex bah.
Chronopie bah.
Pere bah.

Emp maaaybe town.
Oversoul meeeh.

Wraith. Dunno.

Katsuki. I don't care.
Furcolow. I don't care.

Alright, I'm caught up now and established some reads as I read along.

Regarding the main wagons:
- I'm not ready to vote Katsuki's slot yet. He may be scum, but I tend to skim Katsuki's useless posts and it's easy to call him scum based on that.

- The LC-wagon seems only a bit better. I didn't like the timing his humungous catch-up post at a moment, when the gandalf-Andrius fiasco was dying down and people started looking elsewhere. However, I don't see the obvscumminess in him and it still looks like a lazy wagon.

- Why is there still a gandalf wagon? Unless gandalf is in cahoots with Andy I don't see how he could coordinate to match up his claim similarly to Andy's. And Andy has a very townie approach so far.

Tl, dr: I don't agree with any of the wagons that are up for voting. I don't like how PeregrineV has gotten no heat so far for his scummy posts. Same with WoW (

@Andy

, where do you get the town read on them?), Wraith, SaM, ChronoPie and Spyrex. Yap, a lot of lurker and few people on the main wagons, as I believe Kats and LC are easy wagons on "always-good-lynches" that don't need a necessary push from scum. Iffy on Kanye.

Vote: PeregrineV

WOW. Massively underwhelming post, Dekes. And Andrius + Gandalf could have had time to discuss their role as there was an unusually long pregame for this game. Unless Andrius and Gandalf wanted to go balls to the wall with a gambit (which in light of things, could have happened, but that chance would be slim), I doubt that they are faking.

Why are Esp and Vitamin listed as the way they are?

- Oversoul

[Feysal]

So, I'm replacing Katsuki. I was reading along, expecting a slot to open sooner or later, and it happened. Staying up to date on reading this game was not high on my list of priorities though while I was just enjoying the show, meaning I do have some catching up to do. I have read more than half of the game though.

There were some things that caught my attention as I was reading along. SpyreX of course is hinting at being Finduilas like there is no tomorrow. I know, any role could be given to mafia as a false claim, however I find it more likely for town to role play or get into character. Enjoying the thought of being a certain character is something I see coming from a town mindset, particularly if the player is a fan of the theme material. Scum however would not find similar enjoyment in pretending to be a certain character, which would make them less likely to bother with role playing. Therefore I consider SpyreX's hints a town tell.

Furcolow is just plain awful. The last time I played with him he was town, but he also proved there was no limit to the anti-town things he would do. That game he lied about being two different power roles when he was in fact a vanilla townie, among other things I could mention. The bottom line is, I consider it impossible to get an accurate read on him based on the things he says and does, though simply being active may be a town tell for him. I would ask him to at least try to be reasonable though. His flavor post was a perfect example of pure garbage, with half of the flavor being incorrect and the rest unintelligible gibberish with maybe an inkling of truth hidden somewhere.

Speaking of flavor, if my post in the signup thread was not enough of a giveaway, I'm intimately familiar with most of Tolkien's works. I have never actually read the book this game is based on, but I have read at least two versions of the text that book is compiled from. I expect I'd identify most of the characters in this game, with the possible exception of some very minor roles.

What else? Gandalf pretending to be

the

Gandalf is pretty funny. I did see him do something similar in Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den, where he turned out to be town compatible third party. Therefore I don't think it is any sort of alignment tell for him. The amnesiac claim is different though, particularly since Andrius already made a similar claim. I rather doubt there is more than one Nienor Níniel, and I can't remember another amnesiac character in the story. Túrin was pretty out of it on a couple occasions, but he never completely forgot who he was.

So much for now. I have a number of town reads, but until I've caught up and sorted out my thoughts, I'll keep them to myself. More later.

[Dekes]

@OS
I'm not here to solve all the puzzles Day one. You have my reads. And my vote.

Vitamin and Espeo are apparently up there because I had a town read on them while reading up. Though upon quick ISOing, Vitamin gets demoted to a maybe town.

What's more interesting is why you have avoided the Katsuki wagon, when apparently both of your heads agree that he's scum and he's by far the bigger wagon than kanye. The wagon doesn't need another push from you, huh?

There were some things that caught my attention as I was reading along. SpyreX of course is hinting at being Finduilas like there is no tomorrow. I know, any role could be given to mafia as a false claim, however I find it more likely for town to role play or get into character. Enjoying the thought of being a certain character is something I see coming from a town mindset, particularly if the player is a fan of the theme material.

Scum however would not find similar enjoyment in pretending to be a certain character, which would make them less likely to bother with role playing.

Therefore I consider SpyreX's hints a town tell.

That seems to be highly subjective and only used to serve the purpose of explaining your town read on SpyreX. Why is it less likely for scum to enjoy imitating their role/fakeclaim? After all, imitating unnatural behaviour is scum's inherent task.

Looking forward to your scum reads rather than your town reads.