The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[Magister Ludi]

That smiley. Lol

[Gut]

Meh, I don’t buy it. See dram’s latest Large Theme Atomic Mafia and look at DGB. She basically played to her ‘Town meta’ that was supported by ‘face-to-face’ interaction and replaced out under pressure. Tada what do you know … she was scum.

She didn't replace out due to pressure.

The pressure you generate is far less than the irritation anyhow.

[PeregrineV]

@Andrius- I didn't see why not. I just finished a large Simpsons game that had Tom Hanks in it. Why? Because Troy McClure was on vacation, so Tom was filling in for him.
So I was fine with it, just had to determine if he was town, 3rd party or lying. Turns out the answer is could be, maybe, and yes but no.
Go figure.

@Dekes- Agree on the Feysal thing. I want to see where it goes before agreeing to lynch him. Good luck on your heat.

@Feysal- Welcome!

@Ludi- Mine's better:

Vig List

1. Master Ludi
2. Furc (by request)
3. See what shapes up day2, then pick another player.

re: Gandalf/Andrius- (assuming any truth to thier claims/posts/etc.)- I think they may be the equivalent of "blank slates", with maybe some sort of action by the seraphs to get them on a team. Or maybe more flavor stuff.

[MagnaofIllusion]

She didn't replace out due to pressure.

The pressure you generate is far less than the irritation anyhow.

Justify it however you wish. She replaced out saying things like "What did I do to be suspected". She played scummy. I can't help that too many people are driven by "I like DGB, I'm not voting for her" as opposed to playing the actual game. In summary, I don't buy the explanation.

Funny despite the many irritating people I have to put up with I never replace out in a tanturm.

[Gut]

She stopped playing across the board. It's abundantly clear that she didn't replace out due to pressure in that game.

[Feysal]

That seems to be highly subjective and only used to serve the purpose of explaining your town read on SpyreX. Why is it less likely for scum to enjoy imitating their role/fakeclaim? After all, imitating unnatural behaviour is scum's inherent task.

It was an insight I had in My Little Pony Mafia. That game I replaced Espeonage, who in his first post cheered at having received the exact role he wanted. I have a history of trying to choose town slots to replace into, and that reaction, together with a couple other posts, convinced me he was town. I was not mistaken, and in fact I guessed exactly which role he had. I was equally pleased.

In that same game, Equinox role played as Applejack, and since it was so elaborate I thought it was more likely to come from scum, while Espeonage had been more spontaneous. I was proved wrong about that. Now I find that any role playing is more likely to come from town, especially if the player is a fan. What happens when a player receives his role? If it is a town role the player likes, the player may feel inclined to have some fun with it, or react as Espeonage did. If it is a scum role with an attached false claim, the player may feel disappointed, and not bother with any role playing. Suppose your false claim was Finduilas, and your actual role was insignificant nameless orc number 8536 or whatever, how would you feel about it?

To me it looks like SpyreX is having fun and enjoying his role. I am inclined to trust that.

Feysal, be so kind as to point out any mistake I have made other than incorrectly typing the word Noldor.

Did you actually just ask me to humiliate you in public? Glad to oblige, Furc, glad to oblige.

Spoiler: Probably useless flavor, feel free to skip

The sons of Hurin is a reference to men.

Incorrect. I don't recall the expression "sons of Húrin" appearing anywhere in the Silmarillion. The title of the story, and this game, is the Children of Húrin, and it is literally about his children. Húrin and Morwen were the father and mother of Túrin and Nienor.

There are High Elves, and Wood Elves, already, I believe. The Eldar, and the Nolder.

The Eldar is the name for all elves who journeyed west from the east of Middle-Earth, and thus there are no elves in any of Tolkien's works that were not Eldar. The Noldor were a group of Eldar who traveled across the sea, making them one group of high elves, and the only group humans have ever encountered, since the other high elves crossed the sea before humans awoke and never returned. Another significant group of elves were the Sindar or grey-elves, who never crossed the sea and remained in Middle-Earth. There were also green-elves in the southeast of Beleriand, but they have little role in the Silmarillion. The woodland elves refers to the elves east of the Misty Mountains, and they never entered Beleriand at all.

Elves get into human politics at the time...

More like the other way around. Men entered areas where elves had built their kingdoms from the middle of the First Age, and the elves took them as their vassals.

Elves like Maedthros (may-uh-thrOs afaik) were hung up and tortured on the walls of Angmar for hundreds of years where they didn't really die, they just faded away.

Maedhros, not Maedthros. Angband, not Angmar. Maedhros was indeed chained to the mountainside from his hand, but he certainly did not stay there for hundreds of years, nor did he fade away. He was rescued, losing his hand in the process, and appears prominently throughout the Silmarillion. Not in this tale though.

Humans hit this world, Manwe favoring them in a sense, and hit it hard tbh. The elves had gone from living in the land of the Valar (kind of like the pantheon in Greek, but it's an "island to the west", where Frodo sailed off too at the denoument of the Return of the King) there have been evil invading the good parts of everything throughout the Silmarillion (I know this is a different book) for instance, Ungoliant, a gigantic spider, was a 3rd party a little bit before this time that was recruited by Sauron or Melkor to assault these trees... you know the white tree symbol of Gondor? Yeah. It was around that time that Melkor really coveted these things that Feanor crafted... Feanor put his soul into them, they were like gems, although I am a little iffy on the 3 rings given to the elves, I believe 7 to the dwarf lords, and the 9 ones given to men amongst them the Witch King (he wasn't the Witch King then) and shit, but it is similar to that. Objects can have powers, as the palantir do in LOTR. Here they were these elf stones that he coveted.

This is where you really start to ramble, mix up things from different books that have nothing to do with each other, but there are at least some grains of truth in the mix.

First off, humans really did not hit the world all that hard. In this age the world was still very much dominated by the elves, and the humans were newcomers who served as their vassals, or as servants of Morgoth. They were certainly not favored by Manwe, and there is no indication that he was even aware of their existence until the end of the war.

It was the Noldor who had crossed the sea and settled in Valinor, the realm of the Valar. Melkor was imprisoned there, but he was pardoned and allowed to move freely. He betrayed the Valar, and together with Ungoliant he destroyed the two trees that illuminated Valinor. This happened before the sun and moon existed, and the sun and moon were fashioned from the last blossom of each tree. After that, the living light of the trees lived on only in the three Silmarils Feänor had created, and Melkor stole them, which prompted Feänor to name him as Morgoth, rebel against the Valar, and return to Middle-Earth with his people as exiles from Valinor.

The trees of Valinor had nothing whatsoever to do with the white tree of Gondor, nor did the Silmarils have much in common with the Rings of Power. Feänor did say he could only create them once, but the true reason why they were precious was not because he had put his soul in their making, but because of the light that lived in them alone.

Some elves, like Fingolfin, would directly stand up to Melkor. Feanor was different. He felt, being the eldest son, he should take over. It didn't happen, so his father actually left with him when abdicating the throne of the high elves. They went to a different land. Eventually, like I've stated, the elves came under siege and treachery from Melkor... Feanor returned, his 2nd brother whose name I forgot actually felt like he should be king... I'm really rusty on all of this, I haven't read it all in about 9 or 10 years.

You must be rusty indeed, because none of this is even close to being correct.

Feänor led the Noldor to exile from Valinor, and seized the ships of the Teleri to carry them across the sea. He had the ships burned, abandoning his brother Fingolfin behind. His second brother Finarfin led part of the Noldor back, who would not participate in the rebellion against the Valar any further. Feänor, together with his sons and their people, challenged Melkor to battle, where Feänor was slain. His father Finwë never abdicated, instead he was murdered by Melkor when he stole the Silmarils, and he never left anywhere with Feänor, what with both of them being dead. The one who abdicated was Maedhros, the eldest son of Feänor, in favor of Fingolfin, who took a more perilous route to Middle-Earth.

Onto the dwarves, created by Aule, they are not as prevalent. The only dwarf who is really prevalent around this time period is Mim, but we don't really have to worry about him, as he largely worked with the elves and humans against evil. He was sort of treacherous, but if he's in the game he will not be affiliated with Melkor/Angmar whatsoever who will be evil.

I think we do need to concern ourselves with Mîm. He may not have been in league with Morgoth, but he did aid the orcs in their assault upon Túrin and his company for petty revenge. The treacherous little petty-dwarf should die with a dart in his throat, I say.

The humans I am really, really, really hazy on. I know Hurin was the head of the line that Turin was on, so Turin Turambar is probably our hero.

Like I said before, Húrin and Túrin are father and son. By this statement you have also confessed to knowing almost nothing of the tale this game is based on.

The human host was located south of Angmar, and were the direct front of the brunt of the forces in battles. Gondolin was south of it, the wood elves were to the east, and those were the ones that associated with the dwarves most as they were north of the eastern elves and to the east of Angmar.

Humans at the time dwelt in various lands in Beleriand, and in lands to the north. And as I said, there were no woodland elves in Beleriand at all. If you're confusing them with green-elves, you're still wrong, since they were settled in the southeast of Beleriand, not east of Angband. The dwarf cities of Belegost and Nogrod were near, but the dwarves had dealings most with the Noldor, since Caranthir the son of Feänor ruled the lands the dwarves traveled through to Doriath, the kingdom of the grey-elves.

TL;DR

: Furcolow is far more clueless about the flavor than he thinks, and no one should trust him about anything flavor-related. The one thing he said in his post that may be relevant to this game was about Mîm the petty-dwarf, and I don't agree with him being harmless at all.

If it wasn't for you having a grudge against me ever since I endgamed you as scum, I would be voting you, but I saw in Cold War that you're not going to let that shit go, Feysal.

So, you're still pretending that your play in Cold War Mafia was not horribly scummy, and that I had to have a grudge against you to think so. Let me set you straight. You are a dreadful player. In Cold War Mafia you repeatedly lied, were caught lying, and then lied some more. You were hell bent on keeping your useless vanilla town self alive, and you were being hideously anti-town. Try any of that shit in this game, and I promise you death will find you swiftly.

[Empking]

Feysal: Is it fair to say that you'll always give town vibes regsrdless of actual role?

[Feysal]

Feysal: Is it fair to say that you'll always give town vibes regardless of actual role?

The only time I ever heard that before was in an off-site game, the only scum game I've ever won, to my eternal amazement. I don't think it is common at all for me to give town vibes, I'm far more used to being suspected for not posting often enough or for withholding my vote too long.

Come to think of it -

Unvote: LordChronos

I'm not very clear on why Katsuki was voting him, need to finish reading and then decide where my vote goes.

[LordChronos]

Haven't been posting because I'm on the other side of the country with basically no Internet access. This game happened to coincide with my trip to look at colleges and I hope it makes sense that I'm putting that first.

Mod: If you want activity out of my slot before Sunday, replace me. Otherwise don't expect me to post much if at all.

[gandalf5166]

Feysal: Is it fair to say that you'll always give town vibes regsrdless of actual role?

No. When he's scum you can usually tell.

[Furcolow]

The misty mountains haven't even existed yet. You realize there are breakings of the world when coming into a new age, right? We're back before the third age, bro, something, if you really new the flavor, you would know. I mean, with you and Gandalf talking LOTR, you probably thing we have Ancalagon the black, and not Glaurung!

"The trees of Valinor had nothing whatsoever to do with the white tree of Gondor, nor did the Silmarils have much in common with the Rings of Power. Feänor did say he could only create them once, but the true reason why they were precious was not because he had put his soul in their making, but because of the light that lived in them alone."
I hope youre joking
seedlings, and all

secondly, the silmarils and the rings are definitely tied together. sad you don't realize that.

thirdly, you are hitting LATER than i intended with the feanor thing. You should go back and study when Ungoliant attacked, and right before. Feanor was DEFINITELY exiled. Sorry you missed that.

You have a scholar's opinion on it all, but you have not really put 2 and 2 together
I have been reading the Unfinished Tales... sad you don't realize this is from that
and the children, or "sons of hurin" as I have called them is a term I have used for lineage. Sorry you took it at face value.

"I think we do need to concern ourselves with Mîm. He may not have been in league with Morgoth, but he did aid the orcs in their assault upon Túrin and his company for petty revenge. The treacherous little petty-dwarf should die with a dart in his throat, I say."
I disagree with this
1) Mim lead them to safety
2) He forgave Turin for slaying his own child
He could

easily

be good in this story.

I would wager that when I get finished rereading about Turin Turambar, I will be far more adept at the flavor than you
You just want to ad hominem against me, passively, to discredit me
Not going to happen in this setup
People will realize that I am very keen on Tolkien. If this was LOTR, it would be even more evident.

On to Cold War... You replaced into that game, and got lynched as town
What happened to me? I eventually became confirmed town (except to The Fonz, who I had pegged as scum)
I didn't get lynched
I got nightkilled
You were a mislynch, whereas I wasn't
You can blame my methods, but like I've already said, scum had to hit me in the night. What happened to you, champ?

[Furcolow]

Espeonage's "reasoning" and "defense" is a joke
I strongly encourage that wagon, and I will remain on it longer than I usually would, because I personally am ready to lynch

Katsuki

Feysal. I hope more than MoI take that wagon seriously. I know he does, because he has inquired our "beatiful princess Spyrex" as to whether or not

he

she would jump onto it

[Mastermind of Sin]

So much posting that makes my eyes glaze over...

[Sun and Moon]

I am so sorry about this game. I'm going to fix it soon.

There has been a bit of miscommunication about who is going to be doing the posting... *sigh*

I see lots of shitwalls, though, and that makes me sad.

-Amrun

[Magister Ludi]

Just sheep my vote around for a bit until you catch up.

[Sun and Moon]

VOTE: Kanye

Done.

[Plum]

In that spring Túrin put on again the Helm of Hador, and Beleg was glad. At first their company had less than fifty men, but the woodcraft of Beleg and the valour of Túrin made them seem to their enemies as a host. The scouts of the Orcs were hunted, their camps were espied, and if they gathered to march in force in some narrow place, out of the rocks or from the shadow of the trees here leaped the Dragon-helm and his men, tall and fierce. Soon at the very sound of his horn in the hills their captains would quail and the Orcs would turn to flight before any arrow whined or sword was drawn.

The Children of Húrin (143)

VOTE COUNT #1.7

gandalf5166 - 2 - kanyeknowsbest, SpyreX
kanyeknowsbest - 5 - Will-o-wisp, mockingjaye, Wraith, Magister Ludi, Sun and Moon
Feysal -

6

- Mastermind of Sin, MagnaofIllusion, Empking, LordChronos, Andrius, gandalf5166
LordChronos - 1 - VitaminR
Andrius - 1 - PeregrineV
SpyreX - 1 - Gut
PeregrineV - 1 - Dekes
Espeonage - 1 - Furcolow

Not Voting (4): Chronopie, Espeonage, Ellibereth, Feysal

With 22 alive it will take 12 votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 will be in approximately (but no less than) 9 days and will be exactly determined soon.

LordChronos is granted a V/LA request.

[SpyreX]

Silly Feysal, you're not GIVEN the role of a princess, you're born into it.

Into beauty and fame and gloorrrious parties because, well, you deserve it more.

These wagons do not make me happy at all. At all.

[Magister Ludi]

Besides Gandalf who would you want t o wagon SPyrex?

[Espeonage]

ITT Furc doesn't read between the lines and MoI doesn't keep up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

ITT Espionage is scum.

[Magister Ludi]

ITT Tech.

>.> What? <.<

[Espeonage]

ITT Espionage is scum.

Do you ever read me as town?

[Feysal]

The Misty Mountains didn't even exist yet. You realize there are breakings of the world when coming into a new age, right?

You are making yourself ridiculous. The world was indeed broken in the wars, but the Misty Mountains existed before that. Where do you think Khazad-dûm was located? When do you think it was founded?

I hope you're joking. Seedlings, and all.

The original white tree was made in the image of one of the great trees, but it was certainly not a seedling from it. In any case, trying to explain what the trees of the Valar were by inviting comparison with the white tree of Gondor is ridiculous. The trees of the Valar were sources of brilliant light, and tall as mountains. The white trees, not so much.

Secondly, the silmarils and the rings are definitely tied together. Sad you don't realize it.

This ought to be good. Do explain, because I maintain there is no link whatsoever between the silmarils and the rings. They belong in different tales altogether.

Thirdly, you are hitting LATER than I intended with the Fëanor thing. You should go back and study when Ungoliant attacked, and right before. Fëanor was DEFINITELY exiled. Sorry you missed that.

Why, so he was. What I still don't understand is why you would even bring up those events. They are in no way relevant to the Children of Húrin story, and neither are they necessary for understanding the bigger picture.

And the children, or "sons of Húrin" as I have called them is a term I have used for lineage. Sorry you took it at face value.

It is a term you made up, and hugely misleading, serving only to confuse Empking about what the story behind this game was. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't make stuff up, it is better not to talk at all.

I disagree with this.
1) Mîm led them to safety
2) He forgave Túrin for slaying his own child
He could

easily

be good in this story.

If Mîm is good in this game, it is only because this is a bastard mod game. Mîm did lead Túrin to his home, but only as ransom for sparing his life. And he did not forgive the slaying of his son, which was not done by Túrin, but by one of the outlaws who followed him, who Mîm laid a curse on. I will grant that when Mîm betrayed the outlaws to the orcs, he wanted to have Túrin spared, but he was a traitor nevertheless.

I would wager that when I get finished rereading about Túrin Turambar, I will be far more adept at the flavor than you.

That'll be the day.

On to Cold War... You replaced into that game, and got lynched as town. What happened to me? I eventually became confirmed town.

You incompetent hack. I freely admit that Cold War Mafia was one of my worst games, but the reason I was mislynched was an inconsistency in role PMs. As for you, after all your lies you made a lucky guess and usurped credit for a successful vigilante kill. That was the only reason I believed you were town in that game, and had it not been for that, I would have wanted your head on a pike. So don't try to act as if your play in that game was somehow brilliant. You kept stumbling from one blunder to another, and just like in Stars Aligned III, you became confirmed only through blind luck and not through any skillful play on your part.

[Furcolow]

"becamed confirmed town" (as a blue) "not skillful"
cool story, bro