Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[Locke Lamora]

Junpei: what changed between post 40 and 45?

Saulres: how many games have you played?

Vote: 4nxi3ty

[Locke Lamora]

Unvote; Vote: Shift

How much of 102 would you say is a joke?

[Locke Lamora]

A combination of poor motivation and a lack of free time.

[Locke Lamora]

Hi guys, sorry for my lack of activity. I have the day off tomorrow so I will be doing all catching up then.

[Locke Lamora]

Right, read through the game, here are my main thoughts so far:

I don't agree with sottyrulez's complaints about CC's 63. I think VP's response is genuine, particularly given his stated thought process on Vi's restriction. I don't see why it would be more likely for scum to shut down the questioning than let it continue. Their assertion that he is 'twisting and squirming' is the scummiest part of the attack, given that CC's responses are far more consistent with their original position than that implies. That said, their obstinacy about continuing their CC case is giving me a slight town feel. It's apparent that they're getting nothing but heat for their case, so their refusal to back down from the suspicion doesn't seem like the logical scum play.

Amrun 187 gives me a strong town vibe. There's some very pro-town reasoning concerning CC's attitude towards Vi and why it's likely to be town.

saulres 192 features a little too much hedging of bets for my liking. It essentially leaves options open to attack in any convenient direction, contingent on flips. Trying to work out Vi's fakir comment reads like a deliberate waste of time. I'm not sure what to make of the rolefishing; he seems keen to make a big deal out of the fact that he thinks he's worked Vi's role out. Despite a reasonably high amount of posts, there's also very little scumhunting I can see; the fact that his vote is currently on a suggested policy lynch speaks volumes.

4nxi3ty is all over the place to me. Every now and then he seems to ask a decent game-relevant question, but he then follows it up with a string of irrelevancies. This is beginning to look like preventing people from getting reads on him than anything else.

Riggs' Ace vote is about as backwards as votes get, and he's done very little scumhunting other than this deeply flawed line of suspicion in Sottyrulez's direction. As far as I can tell, the only point in his favour seems to be that he's too clueless to be scum.

Ace gives up his Junpei suspicion very easily and a lot of 249 reads as disingenuous to me. The majority of his section on CC is aimed at tossing suspicion CC's way, then he states a neutral read. He seems to treat the players with no content completely differently: for instance, he slams springlullaby for lacking content and says next to nothing about me, which makes me think that these opinions are entirely fabricated.

Need to ISO some people, hopefully will get to that tomorrow.

[Locke Lamora]

sottyrulez's attitude is giving me a town feel at this stage. I believe they'd both be far less obstinate and instead looking for ways to get out of the lynch as scum. I prefer the Ace lynch.

Unvote; Vote: Ace

Ace, I'd obviously made less posts than SL at that point, but your distinction implies she had made a lot and said nothing, and that I had made none. Why don't you think any of SL's posts up to that point have valid content? Why do you think my 3 posts were worth treating as 'nothing' but her 8 posts weren't? What about CC? Why did almost everything you said about them in 249 suggest they were scum but you still came up with a neutral read? These both read as forced opinions to me that give me the impression you're providing them because you think you ought to say something about those players, not because you have any genuine interest in figuring out their alignment.

Junpei's complaint about the hydra dissonance seems like unnecessary nitpicking and just trying to score points off CC.

Junpei: do you have any reason to believe that Juls stating a differing opinion to VP is indicative of alignment?

saulres: can you summarise why you think Sotty is scum, and why you think that lynch would reveal more information?

[Locke Lamora]

Ace: why is my 124 'neutral' yet multiple SL one-liners are 'fluff'? Why are my first two posts 'decent' yet SL 84 and 159 are dismissed? You're obviously not treating us even remotely similarly, you're just stretching and creating a dichotomy to make SL look scummier. The fact that you're now actually relying on this nonsense as a 'case' reinforces my scum read.

Junpei: I don't see how two heads of a hydra having a different opinion is inherently scummy. As far as I'm concerned, I would think VP and Juls were lying if they claimed to have exactly the same opinion on every single subject. It's not indicative of a lack of scumhunting at all, and there's no waffling. VP said that he thought GNR is bad town. Juls thinks he's scummy. So as far as I can tell, you're just overplaying a disagreement between the two heads to make the hydra look bad.

Saulres: to check that I'm following your line of reasoning, are you suggesting a sottyrulez/Vi/Anxiety scumteam?

[Locke Lamora]

Junpei: I don't think we're particularly getting anywhere with this, so I'll drop it after this, but I think your complaint seems to me to be more to do with an issue based on game theory than the actual evidence in the thread. There are no problems determining thought process or who believes what, because it's quite clearly stated. So yes, if VP and Juls flip-flop between reads without stating that they have differing opinions and then later claim that it was because the heads didn't agree, it's scummy. If Juls says 'I disagree with VP, and here's why', and furthermore states why she voiced her opinion without VP's agreement, the problems you cite don't come into play. We could easily have a theory argument about hydras in this context but I don't believe it's indicative of their alignment at all, and that's why I think it's a stretch.

SL: to answer your question, GNR is exactly why I don't play newbie games. Some of his posts have been so bad that I find them hard to analyse for motive, because on one hand I think that they're just plain scummy, but on the other he just keeps doing things that are so clueless that I think there's no way scum would ever post it. I've lynched newbie players for playing like this and been astonished that they're town, and I've given newbie players a pass for playing like this and then hated them because they're scum. In short, he's scummy, but I have no idea if it's indicative of his alignment.

I have to agree with Fishy on SL. It feels like a particularly weak wagon where players are looking for any extra evidence to justify their hop. Everybody vote Ace.

[Locke Lamora]

That's it? Do you have any interest in the content of the wall, or is it just the wall itself that suddenly changes your read?

Yes, I see the difference. SL stated that she likes to lurk a few times. You seem to be implying that the overall volume of SL's posts negatively affects the content of each individual post.

[Locke Lamora]

Vi and GNR's alignment obviously isn't confirmed to each other, given Vi's attitude towards him. I'd like to know more details of the role because on the current evidence it seems a little strange.

Are you just ignoring me now, Ace?

Fishy: are you suggesting that 'higher density' of scumminess is outweighing what is obviously a stronger scumread on sottyrulez? Do you now think people on the SL wagon are bussing?

SL: why are you asking for a deadline extension?

My position is that I would like to lynch Ace, I have no interest in lynching Sotty and I would compromise on SL, but I don't have a particularly strong scumread on her. I think her play has been lacklustre but I don't see a whole lot of scum motivation (or any motivation up until recently) other than potentially in the self-preservation.

[Locke Lamora]

You continue to avoid my point on your assessment of our respective ISOs, Ace. My point is that there are posts of mine and SL's that have comparable content which you treat completely differently. For instance, I get 'neutral' for saying why I'm not posting much, SL gets 'fluff' for being honest about her posting habits. Obviously mine and SL's ISOs are not identical. My issue is that you seem to be looking at posts that display more or less the same characteristics and coming to completely different conclusions.

[Locke Lamora]

Oh, and I should be around up until deadline. Anyone not voting Ace or SL needs to choose.

[Locke Lamora]

Unvote; Vote: springlullaby

[Locke Lamora]

Vote: Ace

On top of yesterday's issues, going from having his cast-iron scumtell on Anxiety to sheeping Vi's GNR suspicion simply isn't genuine. Everyone should reread 604 if they don't know what I'm talking about.

Vi: is your GNR case largely based on no content here vs content elsewhere?

[Locke Lamora]

Saulres: have you looked at any of GNR's past games?

[Locke Lamora]

He's claiming there are 'great arguments' to be made for Vi being scum, GNR being scum and both being town. This theory seems like a recipe for a whole lot of rolefishing.

[Locke Lamora]

Saulres: have you looked at any of GNR's past games?

I've glanced at them. Why?

What did you make of them relative to his play here?

Vi: can you confirm that what Ace suggests is your theory is actually your theory? If it is, there must be something I'm missing.

Ace: can you describe exactly why you thought this might prove anything about either Vi or GNR's alignments?

[Locke Lamora]

I'm really sorry but I'm going to have to replace out. I thought I would have the time to keep up with the game but I clearly don't and on top of that my internet access is going to be very limited over the next couple of weeks.

Mod: please replace me.

[Locke Lamora]

I'd just like to apologise to both DDD and my scumbuddies, because I really didn't contribute much to the game and probably shouldn't have signed up in the first place. I know it's a pain to find replacements and I wish I'd had the time to put into it because it looked like a fun setup. Congrats to the town, it felt like pressure was kept on everyone and there were some strong performances.

[Locke Lamora]

That was just me being honest about my reasons for lurking, actually. Normally I'm more active as scum than I am as town, but it didn't prove to be the case. Probably would have made an interesting breadcrumb, though!