Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[4nxi3ty]

...votes don't have to be used for pressure.

for instance seeing aces response to my revote.

I don't think 4nxi3ty is scum, he just has no idea what he's doing. Junpei should post some reads.

saulres/shift/ace/cc=scumteam?

getting major scum vibes from all four. thinking either same faction, two different factions, or one faction and a third party.

when i originaly placed my vote on CC i thought the crab was null and was trying to gauge ace. afterwards sottyrulez brought up some valid points and this fluffy interaction with saulres got my attention. so looks like crab wil be a very informative dish.

Usually I'd say that this wagon is just misguided but under the circumstances of how it started (a couple weak votes before the attack began) I'm more inclined to see it as a scum-driven counterwagon.

i believe the wagon he is referring to is the one on CC(which implies that i am scum for a weak vote).

[Crab Canon]

Regradless, VP's twisting and squirming thought his pressure has been pretty bad. I don't think he has reacted well to our vote at all.

^this is a pretty big smear campaign. I asked you rationally several times to explain your reasoning. If anything, you were being belligerent with me and using buzzwords like strawmanning and semantics to bolster your rhetoric when you could not logically back the point you were making.

[4nxi3ty]

crab canon twists more than a machine at a twizzler factory XD.

[Crab Canon]

I do encourage everyone to read over this past interaction between SR and myself. I think it is quite telling and needs to be looked at beyond the rhetoric spit by either side.

crab canon twists more than a machine at a twizzler factory XD.

Where's that exactly?

[4nxi3ty]

never had a twizzler?

[Crab Canon]

I mean what words specifically do you feel I twisted?

[4nxi3ty]

most of your responses to sottyrulez have been arguements over the words he uses and not the points he makes.

[Crab Canon]

quotes please

[Crab Canon]

Every one of my arguments goes back to saying SR's points are pointing to things that are not scummy in the least. I've yet to misrepresent their case, which was:

1) calling Vi's post restriction real implies inside information that she's not scum
2) stating my inconclusive feelings on shift was scummy
3) I attempted to stifle discussion with Vi in a way that was beyond just her post restriction, and that if I was only talking about her post restriction it is still scummy.

[4nxi3ty]

His early posts were very WTF and I wasn't sure what kind of player we had here. But from post 105 onward he picks it up and starts scum hunting. He pokes Shift for the strange defense of his wagon he gave in post 67, something we noted on our read. It really comes out of left field.

ok, and you said that what 4nxi3ty said about us also turned you around. what exactly did he say about us that changed your opinion of him?

It's funny, I knew your response was going to be something along those lines. I think your statement can be interpreted to have that effect. At the very least, you were attempting to cut off a line of discussion. (About Vi's post restriction.) Personally my thoughts would have expanded to figuring out more about what Vi can respond to and how Vi might be able to communicate with us more clearly without having to talk about the apparent post restriction. (Which it seems Vi is unable to discuss.) Your apparent reaction was, STOP ASKING ABOUT THE POST RESTRICTION BECAUSE OMG MODKILL.

I don't think my statement can be interpreted to have that effect at all actually. I explicitly said 'stop asking about the post restriction' I believe. I don't see how that implies 'stop communicating with Vi.' And yes, I was cutting off that line of discussion because I think it's scummy to repeatedly try to press a player about something that has the potential to get them modkilled. Asking them once to clarify? Sure, that's cool if you think it's necessary. Repeatedly trying to goad the player into posting about it when it's already been made clear there is a risk of modkill? I'm going to stop that. Even IF the player asking is town and the player replying is scum, it's kind of against the integrity of the game, don't you think? I find it pretty ludicrous that you somehow find that scummy.

Character setup speculation, now that's a great reason to think someone is town.

Again, it's not like I'm calling Vi clear town on my speculation, just giving an opinion. You seem awfully antagonistic over nothing.

What was the point of it other than to dissent from other's reads? Why just him, in particular, at that point in time?

People were giving their reads of him. I've been keeping an eye on him, but I really am having a hard time getting a clear read on him. As above, this seems way too antagonistic for what I'd expect from you too. Frankly, it feels to me like you guys are reaching for any reason to vote for us. You really believe the stuff you're citing or are you just trying to pressure us?

would you consider antagonistic or misrepresent a buzzword?

[Crab Canon]

antagonistic is my interpretation and hardly any kind of buzzword. I do think their posts were antagonistic. This game is about giving interpretations and I don't think it's unfair of me to say I feel that way about specific posts. I also don't think saying they misrepresented something is a buzzword either because I backed it up with a quote from me that pretty much contradicts what they claimed I said.

Using buzzwords like semantics argument and strawmanning without providing concrete examples of how I am doing those things is different from what you are saying there.

Were there any other places you felt I twisted their words?

[sottyrulez]

antagonistic is my interpretation and hardly any kind of buzzword. I do think their posts were antagonistic.

This game is about giving interpretations

and I don't think it's unfair of me to say I feel that way about specific posts. I also don't think saying they misrepresented something is a buzzword either because I backed it up with a quote from me that pretty much contradicts what they claimed I said.

Using buzzwords like semantics argument and strawmanning without providing concrete examples of how I am doing those things is different from what you are saying there.

Were there any other places you felt I twisted their words?

Oh hey that's what we did.

[Crab Canon]

Right. Let me clarify then: interpretations that logically follow from context and things said in the thread.

[4nxi3ty]

yup cc behaviour recently has been more about turning the argument on the person pressuring them, than actually scumhunting.

[Sathoris]

Only managed to get up to page 5, will be fully up to date tomorrow when I've rested.

[quote="In post 31@Sathoris - Why did you vote Junpei?[/quote]

Don't like RQS.

Wait what?

Clearly I'm missing something here. What did I do to deserve a vote so quickly? Or is that still RVS? (That's one of the reasons why I hate RVS by the way -- I don't understand when it ends.)

Also why was I lumped with 4nxi3ty, and Sathorsis?

You seem very defensive already. That hardly was a 'lumped with' post. I can't see why town need to react to it the way you did.

You sound like scum scared he's caught for no reason at all.

If anything I'd read it as "Vi signalled her scumbuddies to vote for the people she listed without voting for them" and you following along.

Are you serious? That's so aburd I'm beginning to doubt it's just you instead of your alignement.

---

Saulres did overreact earlier, but his later post make it seem like it's his personaly rather than his alignement that reacts the way he did. Ace was a bit quick to jump to the rescue though. Not really seeing the Junpei case, and the quicklynch bit seems a bit thin to use as an argument.

obv prodpost, better tomorrow.

[Crab Canon]

@ Anxiety

how am I not scumhunting? Sotty and Zachrulez, the two heads of that hydra, are both excellent scumhunters and logical players to a hilt. I've played many games with both, including them combined as Sottyrulez. Now, when I see a completely bad case from them on me, it strikes me as quite out of character for them. Any personal bias aside, this is how I would react regardless of who they made the case on. I pressured back to see how they would react at first and determine if they were really believing the case they made or just blowing smoke in an attempt to figure out my alignment. The most telling thing about the entire interaction is that they persisted in the face of their case being shot full of holes. Had they said 'oh, well I guess I can understand better now' or something along those lines when I showed clearly that they were stretching to make a case, then maybe I could understand your point. They didn't though. They've dug in their heels and seem to want to paint me as some kind of word twisting, lawyer dog that can't be trusted. I think that's a pretty common smear campaign scum use, and I get vibes of their play in WWF Road to Wrestlmania when I had them pegged as scum and they claimed I was misrepresenting their play and blah blah. They even used the same "twisting our words" argument in that game. It's poppycock frankly.

I really wish DDD was playing this game because he'd be all over this like a cheap suit.

[sottyrulez]

Hahaha, I am characterized as a logical player. That's pretty funny.

I knew you were conjuring up Road to Wrestlemania, see this worked for me the last time I did it when I was town, so now I can go self meta (And twist their meta.) in order to make everyone think this is the same thing...

While ignoring the vastly different reaction you got from that here of course... because that's too inconvenient to your fox news blitz.

[Crab Canon]

You're hardly illogical, Zach. You may take different stances in mafia theory than some people, but I believe you are quite logical in the sense that you only vote for reasons you believe in and that do make sense. At least to me.

I do think the reactions are slightly different between these games because in that one you tried to appease me at first. Here you've gone full teeth without hesitation. What do you see are the differences in the 'twist your words' arguments you used there and the one you are using here?

[sottyrulez]

I don't remember any of the arguments I made in that game. It was too painful so I repressed the memory.

[Crab Canon]

what do you feel I'm twisting then exactly?

[Vi]

And I don't know why scum would necessarily assume Vi was telling the truth. She's lied about post restrictions before. Personally, I'll probably never believe a post restriction from Vi again

*pouts*

Usually I'd say that this wagon is just misguided but under the circumstances of how it started (a couple weak votes before the attack began)

I'm more inclined to see it as a scum-driven counterwagon

.

*

unvotes Crab Canon

*
*ushers Debonair Danny DiPietro's supervisor on stage*
*gestures with proper hand motions how to vote*
*wordlessly encourages Debonair Danny DiPietro's supervisor to practice voting*
*

votes ace5993

like a boss*

*shakes pant leg*
*collects firework that falls out of pant leg*
*aims rocket between Crab Canon and sottyrulez*
*lights rocket*
*runs in other direction*

*waits for smoke to clear*
*

confirms vote on ace5993

*

[sottyrulez]

^ Also a good idea.

Unvote: Vote: Ace5993

[sottyrulez]

what do you feel I'm twisting then exactly?

Everything?

Care to share your thoughts on Ace's play thus far?

[4nxi3ty]

good aim

unvote,vote: ace

.

[Amrun]

I also get townish vibes from ace... Mostly because his play is different than whan I played with him as scumbuddies. Not something to hang any hats on, but I see very little to jump all over, either.

The counterwagon comment was pretty bad, though.