Mini 1246 - Bizarro Mafia: ...Mate! Who won?

[Junpei]

RQS!
1)
Of fire and ice, I proceed.
From my cage I have been freed.
The cage of flesh and bone,
with what I once forbode.

What was in your cage?

2) Some prefer logic, others their gut, how say you?

3) Are you one who anticipates the enemy move, or one who reacts to the enemy's moves?

4) In a world where you could never be critisized for being wrong (because no one would know that you are wrong) would you lie more often than normal? Would you speak your mind/do things more than normal?

Gotta go for now, but when I get back, I'll analyze the mechanics more.

[Junpei]

An unofficial vote count you say? I'm not sure if that will do more or less harm, not quite sure yet. What I do know is that after mafia submits the kill, that last 72 hours needs to be where we decide who to unanimously lynch.

[Junpei]

Ugh, please keep the pony RP to a minimum...

Also I noticed most people who have posted haven't responded to the RQS, why?

[Junpei]

Why didn't you answer them before?

[Junpei]

They help me scumhunt, Darox. Do you still refuse to answer them?

Ace: This post made me laugh.

"if we dnt pretend 2 do wat we always we do we get lost!"

Okay, with that out of the way, upon further analysis, I don't see anything inherently wrong with the votecount being the way it is. I do feel like day votes are much less powerful now (not just mechanically), but a vote count is a good way to organize town's opinions. Although I agree with Otolia that we shouldn't decide on a lynch (or unanimously agree to anything) until after the mafia kill. We can't tip the mafia our hand in a setup like this.

[Junpei]

I find it hard to believe that mafia won't insta-kill after the time limit is up. Anyone find reason to doubt this? I think that the PRs should hastily make their decision.

[Junpei]

I think it is flawed for the same reason it would be flawed in a normal game. Not voting to not give the mafia an idea of who the town PRs might target is silly. Although perhaps a better analogy is, as you said, reads over votes. Poor philosophy, but I don't think it is a scum tell.

[Junpei]

The fact all his ISO is setup speculation on this topic and he criticized someone for not having anything to contribute after 3 pages is suspect, I agree.

[Junpei]

Otolia do you got any reads you'd like to share? Any RQS you'd like to answer?

[Junpei]

Hiplop needs emergency rope if we can't find a better target, I need to make a bigger effort to put more attention to this game, as well as others, I'm used to being able to fully immerse myself in a game, and I haven't been able to do that.

Ace and Darox also have little content and are suspicious for that reason.

Otolia has done nothing but setup speculation.

Internet Stranger has just posted waffling on his read on Mozamis.

TehBrawlGuy and Pads have both shown signs of good scumhunting.

Mozamis is basically fluff and setup speculation

ThirdKoopa only has answered RQS.

VisceraEyes has done a lot of scumhunting.

Wasabi has done almost nothing.

Now we have the Whiskers kill... I think that the main reason for this is that his "I caught 1 PR and 1 scum" seemed like a double threat of possibly being a PR and maybe actually of having found something, so scum hastily killed Whiskers. This is important to note, as it shows the personality of the scum team. Also note that it is very very likely that scum have

day

night talk. These two things should help us going forward deciding who to lynch.

Another thing I've noticed is that only 4 of the town are scumhunting actively it would seem, this is an environment that scum thrive in, and needs to be changed or we will surely lose. I'm toying with the idea of having tracker claim tomorrow for doctor protection, but I'm not sure if it's worth it or not.

I will need to do more analysis on each of the players, because there is nothing overly suspicious from afar, but it is all in the details.

[Junpei]

Now we have the Whiskers kill... I think that the main reason for this is that his "I caught 1 PR and 1 scum" seemed like a double threat of possibly being a PR and maybe actually of having found something, so scum hastily killed Whiskers. This is important to note, as it shows the personality of the scum team. Also note that it is very very likely that scum have

day

night talk. These two things should help us going forward deciding who to lynch.

This kill is basically random, it showed nothing due to the limited time before the kill.

I am suspicious of Internet Stranger, ace and Wasabi.

Assuming the kill to be random would be a mistake. It isn't so early that they'd randomly kill a townie.

Why are you suspicious of those 3?

[Junpei]

lol no worries
I still don't really understand that point -when all is said and done, scum will kill today. (barring lucky doc). So what "no night kill" has to do with it I don't know.

Not no night kill, Night Zero night kill. Essentially, in a standard game, would you rather Scum get a kill as soon as the game starts, or get a kill to use during the Day? (we'll assume doc protects for a full phase and tracker would be able to track his target for a full phase as well) One is the Scum getting a random NK, the other is them getting an informed NK to use on whoever's the most ProTown.

Anyway, I know TK offsite, so I'm gonna go bug him to post here.

1) stop the setup speculation, that phase is done, and we should have PRs send in actions before kills

2) DO NOT PROD TK OFFSITE, IT IS AGAINST SITE RULES I MADE THE SAME MISTAKE IN MY FIRST GAME ON THIS SITE AS WELL DONT DO IT YOU COULD GET MODKILLED

[Junpei]

Pads, I disagree with your Darox case. I clearly said that they help me scumhunt, I was not being sarcastic, although Darox response doesn't indicate that's why he answered them, so perhaps there is something to it. The second example is just a poor translation.

Your case on Internet Stranger boils down to some hard waffle-tunneling on mozami, which I also find scummy.

The case for ThirdKoopa has me stalling. What about hiplop? Someone who essentially just posts random slanderbanter that has no context or content? You letting him slip on that is suspicious to me given that you have came down on three others, and the stall on hiplop because of one of the weakest town tells in the history of mafia "boldness = town".

Also, Internet Strangers' post did the following

- AtE, calling him Jr Sherlock Holmes as if to insinuate he's an amateur that needs to think realistically in an offhand way.
- I haven't read the game, but I read your case (lol, you read the biggest wall but not the game?)
- More waffling on mozami
- A promise that is as empty as can be given what he's done thusfar.

My pretend vote goes to internet stranger.

[Junpei]

I agree, I hadn't realized it, but votes should be kept secret, reminds me of executioner mafia, and how we should have kept the votes secret early on then too, but I think we need to organize our votes eventually, I mean, we don't want scum controlling the lynching.

The "dynamic duo" did hop on hiplop, if you'll read my post.

You waffled, and you blaming me for an acclaimed unproductive day is a big stretch. You're doing a poor job of trying to paint Pads and I as a white knight duo by the way, now I wonder if you are doing this intentionally or are tom sawyer's victim?

Are you of the opinion that lurkers shouldn't be pressured?

pedit: Self meta isn't something I will ever credit, in fact, I don't even credit meta overall, especially when the subject is aware of it. Try again and be useful.

In light of what Internet Stranger said, Ace does seem more suspicious than he did before.

Considering there are more than 1 scum... no, you aren't clear.

[Junpei]

"Junpei, fucking meta me and after that try and say I'm scum. My town meta is so drastically different than my scum one its not even funny"

I can only assume you were trying to say you are town from your meta.

[Junpei]

ya b/c I am , didnt say the differences, i Dont really know them tbf

Then why bring it up?

[Junpei]

You said "after that try to say I"m scum". If that is true, then you MUST have thought that after reading your meta, I would not think you're scum, this shows that you believe that what you were doing would implicate you as town to me for whatever reason. This shows consciousness of your own meta. You are a liar.

[Junpei]

Ace, Internet Stranger was clearly saying that we shouldn't keep an active vote count, and proclaim votes like you just did. We can give reads/scumhunt, we just shouldn't make it clear who we are voting officially. There is more to voting than "he's most independently scummy", and even then I don't think scum can bloc ftw with that.

Ace's blatant misrep noted.

[Junpei]

Ace calling VCA useless makes me laugh by the way.

Darox post some reads and content.

[Junpei]

Okay so obvious ace - Darox scum team going on here, either of you care to add to this or are we ready to roll?

[Junpei]

Darox that is so wrong you should feel bad. You really should feel bad.

Ace, you said specifically "the literally useless VCA." first I want to know, are you denying that?

[Junpei]

Ace, here are my issues with what you've said.

1) There is not a 100% chance of a mislynch, there is simply a chance.

2) There is lots of pressure for scum to fit in, because if they don't they will be exposed. Forces scumhunting and reads and such as well as relational analysis.

3) The statement we're going back to square one is err because the premises are err.

4) You said me saying that you called the VCA useless was a blatant misrep, but have just turned on that and flatly contradicted yourself.

5) Darox is just being... for lack of a better word, foolish, and his post is independent of the "don't proclaim votes" idea. It is not the same or even similar.

[Junpei]

Scum are far less likely to vote scum partners, and are likely to have 1 scum in their scumreads?

Gee, sounds like analysis based on voting to me. And it determines alignment!

We need people posting and giving content, or town WILL lose. I suggest a policy lynch for the sake of such. I concede on point 4, but not on 5, it is not the same thing.

ON the subject of point 4 though, do you find VCA where we direct all the votes to one place good?

[Junpei]

TehBrawlGuy, you're saying that your only scum read is a 'leaning' on Darox?

[Junpei]

My plan:

Stop announcing votes, that's bad to do.

scumhunt

Makes sense, right? Anyway, I agree that it is very likely that all/most of the scum are lurking in the shadows, it is too easy.

On the other hand, at least 1 scum is likely active, as with so many lurkers, it'd be tough for town to commit to killing off a more active player for the sake of conversation.

Hiplop, do you ever plan to be more useful than you are right now?

Also this day is near conclusion.

[Junpei]

Darox, you're one to call ME out for spamming the thread. That's a hoot bro. I've given my

scum read for the day

, my reasoning. If you want more, ask...don't just call me scum. It's not lady-like.

Who's a pretty little princess? YOU are! Darox is my pretty little princess.

Hm... Great work VisceraEyes, to think that I ever doubted you.. A scum read! My god man, you have accomplished a feat so great I could not possibly ask for more..

Well except, perhaps, more reads.

[Junpei]

Yeah VE's little defense right there is definitely not giving me any town vibes. I'm also glad to see that Darox rescinded on his promise of being absolutely useless today. I might switch my vote to VE if there's enough support for it except OH WAIT WE CAN'T ALIGN OUR VOTES UNTIL AFTER IT'S TOO LATE... Never mind, guess I'm staying on IS.

P-EDIT: What Junpei said also.

Considering the open BW on IS is basically you.. you can change your vote to anyone and they're the largest BW. So you can go ahead and switch to VE.

[Junpei]

Darox seems to miscue is own preachings (as pointed out by TehBrawlGuy), encourage anti-town behavior (which he hides behind his mask of VI), and acts like he is really good (another mask of VI play). Also the AtE calling Pads bad at mafia after he suspects him is lolwhat. Not to mention Darox said

"I PLAY LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME AND NEVER GET LYNCHED FOR IT, SO U DONT BE LYNCH ME FOR IT !".

Needless to say that logic is very very flawed.

[Junpei]

Sorry, I meant Pads was the one who pointed out the miscue.

You are a guy who's pretending to be a VI.

[Junpei]

I'm going to side with Pads here. I

actually had a feeling we would ML yesterday. It just seemed far too convenient that ISMaf would slip that hard, and also that he'd get pushed so much by what was essentially everyone save Hiplop/Darox.

(this is part of the reason why I still don't trust Ace 100%) Bottom line is that

you simply can't not support a lynch on that, though, or else you devolve into wine.

TehBrawlGuy voted IS, and the bold shows that he didn't really feel that he was mafia after all. The underlined shows that he is making up some excuse for this that is in no way valid.

[Junpei]

TehBrawlGuy, you're saying that your only scum read is a 'leaning' on Darox?

No. I was saying I was leaning Darox for best scum read. I didn't list anything more, because I didn't feel like posting anything more, thanks to how tired I got.

My other main Scum read would be IS

Oh look, his strongest scum read was Darox.

[Junpei]

Well I don't see how you could say that Ace when we are talking about, quite literally, 18 posts difference. Also "my OTHER MAIN scum read" implies that Darox is still a main scum read, why not vote him instead?

I'll look at pads now.

pedit: Otolia, that is just going to create a situation where there are 2 main BWs and scum get to choose which is better, which is the issue you attempted to address.

[Junpei]

Lets see..

113 says Darox and Whiskers top his scum list.

"Otolia, Ace, TehBrawlGuy, Junpei, VisceraEyes, and

Mozamis

all get a pass from me today." Taken from 134. Already stated my other problems previously with this post.

196 and Internet Stranger is a good lynch now for having a post full of just about every wiki scum tell apparently.

Now he wants to policy lynch Darox who is likely town.

I really find his mozami vote out of place, and the fact that it is with Internet Stranger, a confirmed mafia... wow, you're right, something is wrong here, could scum have slipped up this bad? Pads may have signed his coffin with that vote.

[Junpei]

I admit, Mozami is quite scummy. Things I do not buy though:

- Your "it was an unfinished sentence all along!" silliness

- Your "Yes it is WIFOM, but scum would never do it!" silliness

- Your three paragraphs of "I'm town guys!"

[Junpei]

Hiplop to use your own words (slightly transcribed)...

Drips

hiplops case is BAD. It looks like he CHOSE to think

darox is

I am scum. Like he doesnt actually- just looking for things to be scummy,

not actually scumhunting

. Could be scum

IDK

,seems pretty likely to me.

Oh look, you waffled in this post...

[Junpei]

Haha, nice spinning... but I'm afraid that there is an issue in your reasoning. I said don't announce votes as in "I'm voting X". You should announce suspicion, I've also been pro-scumhunting and pro-reads, which means that you should have been expressing some issues with mozami. But you didn't, instead you expressed that you were going to let him pass today.

The last part of your post is pure wine, and so is the attacks IS put on you, I would not put it out of his reach to distance from you like he did.

[Junpei]

How many people were on other wagons that didn't include IS?

Hint: It's a damn sight smaller than three.

You can't use a generalization like "everyone" and a metaphor which implies many like "piling on" when you only mean "more in relation to others". It makes no sense.

What you said, makes no sense.

[Junpei]

That's a disgusting post.

"Hey guys, let's mislynch this guy first! I think he's got more traction and then we can mislynch Pads tomorrow P.S. I'm going to keep my vote free floating so that I can reverse my position any time I want with repercussion!"

I know who I'm voting for.

To me it read:

"Darox as town is a softer loss than Pads as town. However I feel Darox to be very scummy, and much scummier than Pads, whom you all seem to want to lynch."

Also I'm curious as to where you got "I"m going to keep my vote free floating" when he essentially just locked in his vote for the day.

[Junpei]

I agree that Thirdkoopa has been utterly useless, but I feel we need to rely on the mod to handle that. I do see in Jedo's sig line that he's seeking a replacement, at least.

I think we can probably drop mozamis from the list of suspects on the basis of his lynch vote on IS, and IS's vote on him.

I'm not 100% confident in Pads' roleclaim, but unwilling to gamble a vote there until the game develops further.

My vote will probably fall someplace in the Darox / Junpei / VisceraEyes realm.

Good thing mafia never bus!

Oh wait...

[Junpei]

There is 32 hours today left, how about you do some of that stuff, Pads?

[Junpei]

So then why is it on the list... anyway do you feel that you've done 2 and 3 sufficiently?

[Junpei]

That's a ridiculous question Pads, my vote last night on hiplop should show clearly how I feel about policy lynching the useless early on. But I will not let you go, or anyone else for that matter. When I get time I'll get to your list, however you need to delegate time to it if you are ordering it around like that.

You aren't out of the gallows, don't plan to be around day 3, do what you wish now.

[Junpei]

Oh yeah, I forgot that you are uncc'd doc. That's too bad.

But here you go pads
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3461042
I definitely did express ability to vote hiplop.

[Junpei]

I voted for Darox because I didn't find him very town, and there were no other good options. He was the clear lynch, so I piled my vote on to make sure it went through.

Why would I bus Darox in this situation? I don't know why I would when I could justify my vote elsewhere.

[Junpei]

Pads, massive reads would be great, since you're dying soon, I'd assume.

Hiplop seems like a good lynch to me by the way, as well as ThirdKoopa. But hiplop sounds better.

[Junpei]

Well then you're a fool, as due to many real life constants (of which you don't get to be privy to) my posting and time into games is shortened. I have, however, altered my situation as such that I will be getting more time for quite a while, and will allocate it such that I can spend more time with mafia. The earlier circumstance was for the best though, as my dominating games as town is not a good thing, as I am not so refined at mafia that I can catch scum alone.

Can you PLEASE post some detailed reads that pertain to what was said in this game?

[Junpei]

Oh ace... that's a strange interpretation of the facts indeed. In fact it is so skewed that I would be wary of double bussing Ace, but he is not the lynch today.

124 - yes he had little content then, and was scummy for that same reason, as were you. It was early and that was a slightly scummy read.

144 - LOL no. Unlike some people (scum), I don't push on everything that is in my best interests. If I see something that is wrong, even if it implicates someone whom I think is scum, I will question. You see Ace, it is what we call scum hunting. It is also called not being 100% sure that Darox is scum. If I let everything pass that was against a scummy read then there'd be a lot more scum wins.

171 - I never said he wasn't scummy, I said that your summation was wrong. I agreed with the idea, and you are saying that he was abusing it to not be active or post content, which I disagreed with, for reasons that conversation portrays. Another misrep.

205 - He never wasn't scummy, and I didn't simply say "he is scummy", I stated reasons and facts to support my claim.

238 - I meant likely town in the context that Pads was scum throwing a policy lynch at Darox. Scum don't policy lynch scum pals, Ace. But.. as you perhaps have shown in this game... they bus their whole team.

Also I fail to see the correlation between what I did and what TBG did. Both in your awfully wrong interpretation and in the reality of the situation.

[Junpei]

legit, look at this, then look at TV MAFIA. THIS GUY IS NOT THE SAME ALIGNMENT IN BOTH THESE GAMES, hint - hes town in tv mafia

VOTE: JUNPEI

This is why meta is a bad tool... scum can fake it and town fall victim to it.

Before you make proclamations like that, go build a case showing the differences between my play in that game and in this one, and I'll be happy to explain. For instance..

READ TV MAFIA, AFTER READING THAT GAME YOU'LL REALIZE THAT ACCORDING TO HIPLOPS META, HE IS SCUM.

[Junpei]

1) that post was not in your original PBP post, also I really don't see the big issue with my Darox vote.

2) Already explained that.

3) Also not in your original PBP post, and I don't believe that question was answered in a way outside of WIFOM if at all.

And you've played well Ace, from what I can tell, but scum come out of the shadows when their plan is being executed to its intent, and that could be what is going on now. I might come up with a case later though, but now I want you to address the issues with your case on me which I have pointed out, and be more articulate in your accusations. OMGUS is a pretty lame case by the way.

[Junpei]

Town; consider for a moment that Ace double bussed. Look at the playerlist and tell me if there is anyone left after Pads and I are gone (Pads is now gone) that pose any threat to Ace. I'm serious, he is about to usurp the town by getting rid of the last vocal player.

[Junpei]

Everyone on my wagon has not analyzed the case on me AT ALL. It is highly erroneous and Ace has failed to respond to my rebuttal.

[Junpei]

Ace labeled Mozami as scum at the start, but QUICKLY dismissed the idea, and became ABSORBED in IS being scum. I'm not sure what to look for when seeing if scum conversations with daytalk are manufactured or not, but perhaps you all could look (oh who am I kidding, the only person other than myself here who is willing to do work is Ace). Then, as soon as the day starts up, he rides Darox hard and pushes his lynch into the ground.

Consider now that Ace is scum, this all makes fine sense. Either Ace is a godly scumhunter, which is stretching considering both his primary suspects have both been tunneled hard and flipped scum, or he double bussed for towncred.

This is a likely and possible scenario because the only investigative role to worry of is Tracker, whom died quite early. Not to mention that it is unlikely that tracker would track Ace anyway, being the most active player in the game and the main driving force behind scum lynches, he would have time to try to sniff out tracker. Perhaps they planned to have Darox claim tracker, but then tracker died so it became no longer needed.

The next piece of evidence that makes this quite likely is that if you consider Ace as scum, then you look at the rest of town, you see something of a trend. Whiskers, who came out looking like a strong scumhunter, dies. Then, Otalia dies, whom they thought was a PR (correctly speaking) dies. I'm not 100% sure what I would look for for tracker tells, but they must have seen something. Then Pads dies, easily one of the more logical and strong players in this game, who also happens to be clear, dies. Now I, another one of the more logical and active players in the game, is about to fall. That leaves what exactly?

6 people who have been sheepy and washy the whole game, oh and Ace. I really have been hoping that Viscera would take up some reigns, but he seems to have felt comfortable to take a back seat.

If I die, and no one heeds my warning of Ace, scum WILL win. There is just simply no one left to oppose Ace. This is why you should not think too skeptical off my double bus theory.

[Junpei]

if ace is scum ill get him

I can make jokes too. For instance:

"hiplop has shown the ability to scumhunt and catch Ace independently."

Well, it's kind of the same thing as your joke, but I'm not much of a comedian.

Read my case and comment on questions/concerns you have please.

Also note the fallacies I outlined in Ace's case and express questions/concerns there.

[Junpei]

I am pretty competent when I try, am just a lazy piece of shit.

If you flip town, ill step up.

I have a list of things I do not believe.

The bold is on that list.

The underlined is not.

pedit: Then could you explain what made you want to vote Ace? Lets look at your thought process to see if we can't uncover some of the confusion.

[Junpei]

Hiplop, I really don't know what to say to that. Surely you remember how I stated distaste for meta, how scum could conform to meta, abuse it. How I said that I would not be someone who meta could be easily tacked to. I don't have the same time I do that I used to in my first games on this site to be as absorbed into a game, but as I said I have recently made a change to allow me to to a greater extent. I know that that is very much a wifom argument, but it is equal in stature to your meta argument.

You said that you completely agree with my case, or at least you understand my logic. You say that you suspect Ace as scum, yet for a meta reason which I have explained as best I can without knowing your concerns (of which you also don't understand), you choose me to harbor your vote.

I am dumbfounded.

[Junpei]

Lining up lynches is bad hiplop, we should not do that.

We can lynch Ace today, I am confident we can. You just need to go with what you believe independent of what others believe. We don't have to follow scum today, rather we have to lynch scum today. Stand for what you believe, and others will follow.

pedit: Anger and warnings don't outline me, it is more of coincidence, but I have made mental note to be more calm and accepting. I am very surprised that my POSITIVE change is driving you to lynch me. I mean, how can anyone change their behavior for the better if it brings such conviction?

[Junpei]

It closes the openness of scumhunting, and lets scum plan too far ahead which could really hurt town. Scum can't cover their tracks when they don't know what trail they're leaving.

[Junpei]

if i tunnel they dont need to worry about covering tracks

i doubt we'll get enough new info to change that anyway, its not like im set in stone voting ace immediatly tomorrow, im obviously open but moreso on ace

Well if you believe there is 1 scum in me/Ace, and you find Ace to be scummier independent of meta which I have proven to equal extent to be misleading, then why don't you vote Ace now? And to your first sentence, that hardly addresses the issue. If you tunnel then that's all good, but you face the same problem I do of convincing town of your theory.

[Junpei]

Hiplop.. yes we should hear from others, but like I said this town is full of lurker sheep and I really feel like I need to convince every townie that will discuss with me, and that includes you. I also do not trust the validity of the equation you have there.

[Junpei]

Oh you are so full of B.S. Ace, and I'm posting to remind you to stick around the site so that you can respond when I point out your flawed, misleading, and sneaky reasoning.

[Junpei]

First point (other than "ok") which you bring up is a horrid skew of the facts. Defending someone is the act of protecting them from harm with the intent to do simply that, protect them. What I was doing was not in that intent, rather to point out a bad post someone else made with the intent of finding scum. You interpreted my post the way you wanted to to paint me as scum, but what I did is far from defending Darox.

Second point is the same thing. You took the two instances of me scumhunting in regards to something that was posted that implicated Darox and are bloating it to try to push a lynch on me. Unfortunately for you, I won't sit down and get mislynched, and you won't win this game. As this conversation goes on, I get more and more sure that you are scum, as you are pushing such distorted ideas onto the gamestate, abusing your previous action of lead to do so.

Third point is that I was preaching an argument that I discredited earlier which is completely untrue. The only thing in 171 pertaining to Darox is a sentence about how you misrepped his statement on how we should claim votes or not.

Fourth point is highly erroneous as well. I thought that player X was scum, and given their actions, by relation tells, I could not possibly see Darox as scum. This is very different than what I am now saying. Now I am saying that, given that players Y and Z are scum, by relational tells, I see you as scum along with your current actions.

You may call it fear-mongering, but what it really is is me stating your real plan. Yes I am definitely the largest obstacle in your path and I have no problem saying it. I do believe that I have been the player most on your back Ace this game. Even suspecting a connection between you and Darox a while ago. But alas, Tracker must die, and you didn't view me as a Tracker-prospect so you couldn't kill me.

If you were scum, who is the biggest obstacle in the road for you?

The summation of my case on you is so awful that I hope that no one reads it, I'm not going to restate my position, read this post and others. My hiplop scumread was based off of his erratic play. To be honest, I haven't been too sure of myself ever since IS flipped scum. I couldn't understand it, and then Darox flipped scum, and I was confused once again why scum would act like that. But this... this fits the puzzle so well, I would be oh so surprised if there is a better fit than this.

pedit: My case revolves around the fact that you being scum fits perfectly. It solves the case. I do not have damning evidence, what I have is circumstantial, but luckily this is not the US courts, and we can convict on it. You have nothing better, actually what you have is arguably worse. I bet when hiplop called me scum your mouth watered. I'll ISO you later to see if I can find obvious bus hints, but given day talk, I don't know what I could find.

[Junpei]

"Outside chance of anyone being scum" is a logical paradox Ace. By the logic you are imposing to make my argument invalid, no one is scum, but that is certainly not the case. Someone is scum, and sometimes you have to pick up a piece and see if it fits, which is what I did. The only scum whom is panicked here Ace, is you. Also, it most certainly is circumstantial, and I do not see how you are denying it, or why you would deny it. It is not fear-mongering... there is a difference between inciting fear for malicious purpose, and explaining a likely scenario and why it is likely even though it is a bad scenario.

Ace, reads and interpretations change over the course of the day, I believe somewhere in this game you said the same thing. It isn't a contradiction because they weren't of the same instance. I was not practicing supposed doublethink, rather I was practicing a development of opinion over the course of time. You are doing what we call, STRETCHING.

Your entire case is bad, and you fit the profile of scum.

[Junpei]

Town, wake up, it has been nearly 24 hours, this is an important cross road, and you need to understand the poor arguments Ace is presenting.

[Junpei]

Town...

...

... It has been 48 hours and I have been the only one to post. Literally everyone in this game but me is about to get prodded. This is ridiculous, scum are riding the wave.

[Junpei]

Viscera, I clearly explained in detail why it was wrong -.-

[Junpei]

Uh, in 298 you said that you wanted me to justify a vote on Darox.. that wasn't a big deal, and I just viewed it as a common neutral question.

314 was a post that had to do with hiplop calling me scum for meta reasons, but I said that I had issues being as active as normal. It wasn't until 315 you restated the case so there was nothing to refer to as far as your case.

As far as your restatement in 315, the issue was the massive misrepping and the BW hopping as a result. That's what had me flabbergasted.

Once again, you are skewing the facts, this time in a desperate attempt to shroud the truth from towns' eyes as you coast the lynch.

TOWN PLEASE READ THESE TWO POSTS AT LEAST

[Junpei]

No one considers the case where Ace and I are both town? I think Ace is scum, but I could be wrong.

[Junpei]

Also for future reference in games for you all: Town flip out when scum are using inane logic to take them out when they are surrounded by sheep town. I know we have two MLs, but I think we can easily lose this game. I'm going crazy that no one is seeing what I'm seeing here, hiplop does, but Viscera chalks it up to "flailingscum", wasabi to "I guess we'll see", and TBG to "+1 Viscera flailscum". This is really frustrating, because I'm not flailing, I'm going step by step through everything Ace has said today and explaining how it is so very flawed and explained how him being scum makes so much sense.

[Junpei]

Not sure how Ace won.... other than the fact that no one but sheep remained with him at mylo.

Things for you guys to know for later games:

Don't use the "well it's X or Y, and X was fos'd first, so lets kill X". Then, to use that logic and not kill Y? I mean you basically went back on the whole reason for lynching me in the first place!

Jedo: I think that there is probably a way to make the mechanic shine more. Because there isn't much that this does except:

Force PRs into a 48 hour timelimit, as well as the mafia.
Lets mafia blitz on lylo

In my opinion, killing during the day as well as using PRs isn't super gamechanging, it is a very minor tweak that didn't affect me as much as the shorter deadlines did. But perhaps there was a missed point in there somewhere.

[Junpei]

~_~ ^^ thats why you should always sheep me im never wrong

Official Vote Count:

Junpei (5) - ace5993, TehBrawlGuy, mozamis, Wasabi,

hiplop

, VisceraEyes

Ahem. Also VE you played fine, just was wrong at the very end.