Mini 1246 - Bizarro Mafia: ...Mate! Who won?

[Junpei]

Town; consider for a moment that Ace double bussed. Look at the playerlist and tell me if there is anyone left after Pads and I are gone (Pads is now gone) that pose any threat to Ace. I'm serious, he is about to usurp the town by getting rid of the last vocal player.

[mozamis]

vote junepei

[Junpei]

Everyone on my wagon has not analyzed the case on me AT ALL. It is highly erroneous and Ace has failed to respond to my rebuttal.

[Junpei]

Ace labeled Mozami as scum at the start, but QUICKLY dismissed the idea, and became ABSORBED in IS being scum. I'm not sure what to look for when seeing if scum conversations with daytalk are manufactured or not, but perhaps you all could look (oh who am I kidding, the only person other than myself here who is willing to do work is Ace). Then, as soon as the day starts up, he rides Darox hard and pushes his lynch into the ground.

Consider now that Ace is scum, this all makes fine sense. Either Ace is a godly scumhunter, which is stretching considering both his primary suspects have both been tunneled hard and flipped scum, or he double bussed for towncred.

This is a likely and possible scenario because the only investigative role to worry of is Tracker, whom died quite early. Not to mention that it is unlikely that tracker would track Ace anyway, being the most active player in the game and the main driving force behind scum lynches, he would have time to try to sniff out tracker. Perhaps they planned to have Darox claim tracker, but then tracker died so it became no longer needed.

The next piece of evidence that makes this quite likely is that if you consider Ace as scum, then you look at the rest of town, you see something of a trend. Whiskers, who came out looking like a strong scumhunter, dies. Then, Otalia dies, whom they thought was a PR (correctly speaking) dies. I'm not 100% sure what I would look for for tracker tells, but they must have seen something. Then Pads dies, easily one of the more logical and strong players in this game, who also happens to be clear, dies. Now I, another one of the more logical and active players in the game, is about to fall. That leaves what exactly?

6 people who have been sheepy and washy the whole game, oh and Ace. I really have been hoping that Viscera would take up some reigns, but he seems to have felt comfortable to take a back seat.

If I die, and no one heeds my warning of Ace, scum WILL win. There is just simply no one left to oppose Ace. This is why you should not think too skeptical off my double bus theory.

[hiplop]

if ace is scum ill get him

[Junpei]

if ace is scum ill get him

I can make jokes too. For instance:

"hiplop has shown the ability to scumhunt and catch Ace independently."

Well, it's kind of the same thing as your joke, but I'm not much of a comedian.

Read my case and comment on questions/concerns you have please.

Also note the fallacies I outlined in Ace's case and express questions/concerns there.

[hiplop]

I am pretty competent when I try, am just a lazy piece of shit.

If you flip town, ill step up.

[hiplop]

Not going to lie, I sent "vote ace", then changed my mind and voted you again!

[Junpei]

I am pretty competent when I try, am just a lazy piece of shit.

If you flip town, ill step up.

I have a list of things I do not believe.

The bold is on that list.

The underlined is not.

pedit: Then could you explain what made you want to vote Ace? Lets look at your thought process to see if we can't uncover some of the confusion.

[hiplop]

your case makes a lot of sense, pretty much all of it. Only thing is i think you're scum, and its just better to clear my mind so i know I can trust what you're saying. I've been pretty SUS of ace all game, and I do know he is a very strong scumplayer. But theres just something drastically different in your play this game, junpei and I can't trust it. I'm sorry

[Junpei]

Hiplop, I really don't know what to say to that. Surely you remember how I stated distaste for meta, how scum could conform to meta, abuse it. How I said that I would not be someone who meta could be easily tacked to. I don't have the same time I do that I used to in my first games on this site to be as absorbed into a game, but as I said I have recently made a change to allow me to to a greater extent. I know that that is very much a wifom argument, but it is equal in stature to your meta argument.

You said that you completely agree with my case, or at least you understand my logic. You say that you suspect Ace as scum, yet for a meta reason which I have explained as best I can without knowing your concerns (of which you also don't understand), you choose me to harbor your vote.

I am dumbfounded.

[hiplop]

the thing is: I see one of you as scum, I'm not 100% sure who, and i HIGHLY doubt we can get majority on ace. IE if you flip town rip ace

[hiplop]

but its not the lack of posting, its the overall tone. You're much, much more relaxed. TOWNPEI gets mad a lot and repetitive warnings for hatiing, as well as it seems you're defending yourself more than scumhunting. Something doesnt click.

I really do apoligize if you're town, I just can't stop it today. And since we're in relatively good shape (two scum down), we can risk killing you!

I dont usually use Meta. But idk. I really just cant picture you-town right now

[Junpei]

Lining up lynches is bad hiplop, we should not do that.

We can lynch Ace today, I am confident we can. You just need to go with what you believe independent of what others believe. We don't have to follow scum today, rather we have to lynch scum today. Stand for what you believe, and others will follow.

pedit: Anger and warnings don't outline me, it is more of coincidence, but I have made mental note to be more calm and accepting. I am very surprised that my POSITIVE change is driving you to lynch me. I mean, how can anyone change their behavior for the better if it brings such conviction?

[hiplop]

why is lining up lynches bad? Thats pretty silly if you ask me, especially considering this games mechanics

[Junpei]

It closes the openness of scumhunting, and lets scum plan too far ahead which could really hurt town. Scum can't cover their tracks when they don't know what trail they're leaving.

[hiplop]

if i tunnel they dont need to worry about covering tracks

i doubt we'll get enough new info to change that anyway, its not like im set in stone voting ace immediatly tomorrow, im obviously open but moreso on ace

[Junpei]

if i tunnel they dont need to worry about covering tracks

i doubt we'll get enough new info to change that anyway, its not like im set in stone voting ace immediatly tomorrow, im obviously open but moreso on ace

Well if you believe there is 1 scum in me/Ace, and you find Ace to be scummier independent of meta which I have proven to equal extent to be misleading, then why don't you vote Ace now? And to your first sentence, that hardly addresses the issue. If you tunnel then that's all good, but you face the same problem I do of convincing town of your theory.

[hiplop]

strongdeadjunpei + me > ace

ill wait to hear from the others?

[Junpei]

Hiplop.. yes we should hear from others, but like I said this town is full of lurker sheep and I really feel like I need to convince every townie that will discuss with me, and that includes you. I also do not trust the validity of the equation you have there.

[hiplop]

im good at math dont worry

[hiplop]

kay i unvoted you and went to him, others should do the same

[ace5993]

124 - yes he had little content then, and was scummy for that same reason, as were you. It was early and that was a slightly scummy read.

OK

144 - LOL no. Unlike some people (scum), I don't push on everything that is in my best interests. If I see something that is wrong, even if it implicates someone whom I think is scum, I will question. You see Ace, it is what we call scum hunting. It is also called not being 100% sure that Darox is scum. If I let everything pass that was against a scummy read then there'd be a lot more scum wins.

Alright, so you don't deny that you were defending Darox, just that you don't consider it odd.

171 - I never said he wasn't scummy, I said that your summation was wrong. I agreed with the idea, and you are saying that he was abusing it to not be active or post content, which I disagreed with, for reasons that conversation portrays. Another misrep.

Defending Darox against yet another case because you felt the case was wrong, oh but he's still scummy.

205 - He never wasn't scummy, and I didn't simply say "he is scummy", I stated reasons and facts to support my claim.

Your case (shielding himself behind something to be able to play terribly), is remarkably similar to what you defended him against in 171.

238 - I meant likely town in the context that Pads was scum throwing a policy lynch at Darox. Scum don't policy lynch scum pals, Ace. But.. as you perhaps have shown in this game... they bus their whole team.

Oh so he was then town because someone you thought was scum was attacking him. BUT, that only applies to Pads? Doesn't seem to stop you from thinking that I "double bussed"

Town; consider for a moment that Ace double bussed. Look at the playerlist and tell me if there is anyone left after Pads and I are gone (Pads is now gone) that pose any threat to Ace. I'm serious, he is about to usurp the town by getting rid of the last vocal player.

Fear-mongering. Did you really just call yourself the only vocal player left in the game? So I'm scummy for wanting to lynch a vocal player, but you're not scummy even though you want to lynch me (a vocal player)? The fuck is this? Also note that there's no case on me at all, it's just that "if ace is scum, he might win"

Unjustified fear-mongering.

#328 - Yes, the strategy was obviously a scum-front. I correctly called that both IS and Darox were hiding behind it. I have no idea why Whiskers died, I didn't see any "stron scumhunting" trend in his early play. There's something interesting here though - why did scum think Otolia was a PR? I certainly didn't see any tells in his play. Perhaps you had an in to what scum were thinking at that point? By the way, it's cute how much you overrate yourself, if I

was

scum wanting to take out the person I thought was the best remaining player it wouldn't be you.

So right now we have:

My case on you - Waffling (or defending when you still thought he was scum?), on Darox, last expressed read was a town read, followed by a vote, sudden completely unjustified OMGUS attack on me that is literally only there because I'm pushing a case on you, this reads like panicked last scum about to lose

Your case on me - I might be scum, and scum have been NK'ing the better players/PRs in the game



Also note that Junpei has completely backed off of whatever other reads he has (thought there was a scumread on hiplop), to push a lynch on me just because I'm pushing a lynch on him. I mean come on.

[Junpei]

Oh you are so full of B.S. Ace, and I'm posting to remind you to stick around the site so that you can respond when I point out your flawed, misleading, and sneaky reasoning.

[ace5993]

When you do please include a clear and concise case on me so I can actually defend myself, how does that sound?