Mini 1246 - Bizarro Mafia: ...Mate! Who won?


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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:43 am

Post by mozamis »

In post 96, Whiskers wrote:So I've already pegged one of the PRs and one of the Scum, I think.

I mean, I have some reads.

[PreEdit]
Otolia: Fake votes are one thing--- you don't have to support them yet-- there is no Night...Daykill!?, so they are
fairly
random at this point. These Dayvotes could be used to influence or guide the scum.

Giving my actual reads is another. Giving my real reads, this very easily
could
influence a
night
Daykill for the worse.

[Preedit AGAIN]
Darox: Could you bother making a fake case on your fake suspect? I don't want to fake mislynch.

[Preedit one more time]
Why the fuck you all ninja'n me?


I guess this post was her death sentence.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:22 am

Post by Otolia »

In post 124, Junpei wrote:Now we have the Whiskers kill... I think that the main reason for this is that his "I caught 1 PR and 1 scum" seemed like a double threat of possibly being a PR and maybe actually of having found something, so scum hastily killed Whiskers. This is important to note, as it shows the personality of the scum team. Also note that it is very very likely that scum have
day
night talk. These two things should help us going forward deciding who to lynch.

This kill is basically random, it showed nothing due to the limited time before the kill.

I am suspicious of Internet Stranger, ace and Wasabi.
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:49 am

Post by Junpei »

In post 126, Otolia wrote:
In post 124, Junpei wrote:Now we have the Whiskers kill... I think that the main reason for this is that his "I caught 1 PR and 1 scum" seemed like a double threat of possibly being a PR and maybe actually of having found something, so scum hastily killed Whiskers. This is important to note, as it shows the personality of the scum team. Also note that it is very very likely that scum have
day
night talk. These two things should help us going forward deciding who to lynch.

This kill is basically random, it showed nothing due to the limited time before the kill.

I am suspicious of Internet Stranger, ace and Wasabi.


Assuming the kill to be random would be a mistake. It isn't so early that they'd randomly kill a townie.

Why are you suspicious of those 3?
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:38 am

Post by Otolia »

Wasabi came to post a contentless post saying that he will post content in a near future. That's scummy trying to blend in.
Internet Stranger has mentionned mozamis twice for 'trying too hard' which is far-fetched. He is supposed to know better.
Ace is more a gut feeling.

Mozamis could be right up there too but I don't have the feeling on him.
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:25 am

Post by ace5993 »

Unofficial "Vote" Count


Darox
(1) - Pads
mozami
(1) - Darox
ace5993
(1) - mozami
VisceraEyes
(1) - Whiskers
Otolia
(1) - VisceraEyes
InternetStranger
(1) - ace5993

Now that the scum kill has happened there really should be no excuse not to let everyone know who you're voting for.

Mozamis' recent posts have been looking up so I'm going to shift my attention to InternetStranger. Of his three posts the first was explaining mechanics, the second was waffling on mozamis (the first person with a case on them), and the third was saying mozamis was scum for just a terrible reason. I feel pretty confident in
Unvote, Vote: InternetStranger
. Keep in mind that we have a mere 72 hours to decide on a tonight's lynch, everyone really needs to stop with the ridiculous garbage now (looking at you hiplop).
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:03 pm

Post by Darox »

Lol Burden of Proficiency.

I have a feeling we're going to see that a lot this game.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:21 pm

Post by TehBrawlGuy »

In post 122, mozamis wrote:lol no worries :)
I still don't really understand that point -when all is said and done, scum will kill today. (barring lucky doc). So what "no night kill" has to do with it I don't know.


Not no night kill, Night Zero night kill. Essentially, in a standard game, would you rather Scum get a kill as soon as the game starts, or get a kill to use during the Day? (we'll assume doc protects for a full phase and tracker would be able to track his target for a full phase as well) One is the Scum getting a random NK, the other is them getting an informed NK to use on whoever's the most ProTown.

Anyway, I know TK offsite, so I'm gonna go bug him to post here.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:23 pm

Post by Junpei »

In post 131, TehBrawlGuy wrote:
In post 122, mozamis wrote:lol no worries :)
I still don't really understand that point -when all is said and done, scum will kill today. (barring lucky doc). So what "no night kill" has to do with it I don't know.


Not no night kill, Night Zero night kill. Essentially, in a standard game, would you rather Scum get a kill as soon as the game starts, or get a kill to use during the Day? (we'll assume doc protects for a full phase and tracker would be able to track his target for a full phase as well) One is the Scum getting a random NK, the other is them getting an informed NK to use on whoever's the most ProTown.

Anyway, I know TK offsite, so I'm gonna go bug him to post here.


1) stop the setup speculation, that phase is done, and we should have PRs send in actions before kills

2) DO NOT PROD TK OFFSITE, IT IS AGAINST SITE RULES I MADE THE SAME MISTAKE IN MY FIRST GAME ON THIS SITE AS WELL DONT DO IT YOU COULD GET MODKILLED
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:44 pm

Post by Thirdkoopa »

I'm here anyways. What questions have I missed? I need to take a re-read here.

Oh and I haven't voted yet.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:15 pm

Post by Pads »

Otolia, Ace, TehBrawlGuy, Junpei, VisceraEyes, and Mozamis all get a pass from me today. They're active, they're posting content, and if I'm going to lose to scum, I'd rather lose to scum like that rather than scum that don't work for it at all. Also, if they're scum, it'll be easier to discover late game than with the people who aren't doing anything of value.

Speaking of doing nothing of value, Wasabi and Hiplop, despite wasting internet space, have each shown a few glimmers of behavioral patterns I associate with townies, so they'll get a pass from me today as well. Specifically, Wasabi acknowledges his uselessness, speaks of it as though it's something to correct, and has an overall tone of genuine frustration at the lack of knowledge gained thus far. In Hiplop's case, he's almost daring someone to call him a scum and lynch him, as if he knows he'll get the last laugh ("I told you I wasn't scum"). Not the strongest reads, I'll grant, but good enough for me for now.

Darox shares some of that same tone in his posts (unless I misinterpreted it, his last post insulted everyone's proficiency at Mafia), but he has a few other moments that keep him on my scum list. First he called the random questions useless, and then, at the first whiff of pressure, he happily caves and treats those questions seriously. Here's the quotes:

Darox wrote:
Those questions are useless.


Junpei wrote:
They help me scumhunt, Darox. Do you still refuse to answer them?


Darox wrote:
Sure, I'll answer them.


Uh.. what? I don't know about you guys, but if I felt the questions were worthless (and I do) and someone asked me if I refused to answer them, I would say yes. Even if I did decide to answer them at that point, it would include a statement such as "If I must...". Except, of course, if I was scum. If I was scum, I wouldn't want to fight about it. I would want to slink away from attention so as to reduce my chances of being lynched. I would just answer the questions and be done with it. And that's exactly what happened here. Darox mocked the questions when he didn't have the focus of another player, and took them seriously when he did. He quickly made sure to subdue Junpei's in him so that he could resume flying under the radar.

It wasn't the only occurence, either. The act of placation happened again.

Darox wrote:
Can we get a fake hammer in here?

TehBrawlGuy wrote:
....do you people have some confusion with what content is?

Darox wrote:
I fake don't even fake know what the fake votecount is up to, but fake you should be fake voting him so that he's one fake step closer to fake lynch.


Translation: 'I don't even know what's going on right now so I can't possibly be held responsible for anything scummy I might have done. Also, everything I'm doing right now is fake and means nothing, so no one need to pay attention to me.'

And, no, the sarcasm is not lost on me. But use of the word 'fake' rather than, say, 'pending' is an indication that he finds the wagon not just less potent than a normal game's wagon, but altogether useless. He's entitled to his opinion, but he's
again
spending time on things he believes are worthless
. Plainsight lurking in its clearest form.

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over his Night 1 lynch, but he's not my first choice.

Internet Stranger has posted very little, but that's not why he's high on my scumlist.

Internet Stranger wrote:
If I had to pick a scum, it would probably be Mozamis.


You DO have to pick scum, assuming you're a town playing towards their win condition. That would be enough to gain my suspicion, and likely a vote, but the post that came before this one is even worse in my opinion.

Internet Stranger wrote:
Mozamis looks like he is trying too hard at something, but I havent quite figured out what yet.


"I haven't quite figured it out..." is a line that comes out from time to time in mafia games and is a red flag in my book. Used in this context, I believe it to be a scum slip that can be translated into "I haven't made up the reason yet". He's not going to analyze, probe, test a wagon or ask questions like a townie would. Instead, he's going to fabricate a reason for his invented suspicion.

No problem putting a vote here tonight, but still not my first choice at the moment.

ThirdKoopa is my first choice.

He has two posts, both of which are terribly scummy within the context of having no other posts. The first post does nothing more than answer the random questions. Worthless, but might meet the lowest standards of acceptable for a RVS phase, except that he doesn't post again until after he's challenged by the town. Curiously, it was very soon after.

In his second post he was clearly highly concerned with placating the town, even more so than the first.

ThirdKoopa wrote:
I'm here anyways. What questions have I missed? I need to take a re-read here.

Oh and I haven't voted yet.


"Lurking? That's scummy, heck no I'm not doing that, I am here and ever-present, for I am town! Look at how I make sure I'm not missing any questions sure to answer all questions like a good townie does!

Suspicions, thoughts, and reads? Oh, I have them, you betcha, but I'm not going to say a peep about them, because I want to read the entire thread a second time, so that no nefarious scum slips through my ever vigilant net of justice. For I am town and catching scum is what I do, and I want to make extra sure of my highly polished and researched suspicions before I post them in thread, for I do not want to mistakenly lynch one of my precious, innocent co-townmates!"

Yeah, this post is not only nothing, but it's an indication of a game-long commitment to nothing. Nothing we can hold him to, the nothing that he's going to attempt to uncover for himself, and the nothing he would be worth in lynch or lose.

Nothing in this post suggests that he has any interest in helping find scum (because he already knows the setup, perchance?). Instead, it appears that he only has an interest in removing attention from himself. "What questions have I missed?" Uh, go read the thread. "I need to go re-read." Oh, so you already read the thread but you weren't interested in answering any questions then. It's only now that you've earned the attention of the town that you care about answering them? Scum, scum, scum. And let's not forget the utter lack of anything that could even try to pretend to be content.

unvote, PendingVote:ThirdKoopa
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:19 pm

Post by Pads »

Btw, Ace, I have a feeling that Whiskers is not going to deliver on his intention to vote for VisceraEyes tonight.
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:21 pm

Post by Darox »

Did you miss the part where I made fun of his questions and basically called them worthless while answering them?
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:22 pm

Post by Darox »

Amusingly the bulk of your argument seem to be about me caving to pressure.

It's funny because when under pressure I don't give a shit and continue to go around making fun of people.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:47 pm

Post by Pads »

No, your tone in that post was not lost on me. As I said, you share some of the same tonal qualities that have me leaning town on Hiplop.

But you've spent so little time on anything I'm left to come to the conclusion that those questions were important to you to some degree because you spent time on them.

Insulting other people is clearly important to you, too. If only scum hunting were important to you. Perhaps it's not important to you because you already know who the scum are. Guess it's better to stay silent. Don't want to risk directing the scum's Day 2,3,4 kills, no?
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:53 pm

Post by Darox »

I could just pinch your cheeks.
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:44 am

Post by mozamis »

Pads wrote:Otolia, Ace, TehBrawlGuy, Junpei, VisceraEyes, and Mozamis all get a pass from me today. They're active, they're posting content, and if I'm going to lose to scum, I'd rather lose to scum like that rather than scum that don't work for it at all. Also, if they're scum, it'll be easier to discover late game than with the people who aren't doing anything of value.


Agree with this approach 100 per cent. Let's put some pressure on the lurkers/active lurkers.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:46 am

Post by mozamis »

So, with that in mind:

UNVOTE VOTE THIRDKOOPA
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:44 am

Post by Internet Stranger »

Pads, I know you're trying to be Jr Sherlock Holmes with me and thinking you're all clever but the reason I said those things is that I haven't thoroghly read much of the game yet. Even with that, Mozamis is the one that was standing out the most.

Either way, I will find you at least one scum later today.
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:42 am

Post by Pads »

Tut, tut. Only Darox gets points for being cheeky with me.

That you would mock, and therefore discourage, people to look for clues (a la sherlock holmes and son) is certainly a bold thematic choice for your first non-setup related post longer than one sentence.

Also curious is that you decided to
defend against
parry
sidestep
comment in reference to
my
case against you, since I'm not even the one voting for you at the moment. Nervous much?

The sad reality is that the town isn't going to have enough time to challenge all of the lurkers, do-nothings, and vote switchers (people who don't vote the way they say they're going to). But I, for one, will always take a moment of joy every time I hear the "I WILL DO STUFF LATER!!" defense.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:15 am

Post by Junpei »

Pads, I disagree with your Darox case. I clearly said that they help me scumhunt, I was not being sarcastic, although Darox response doesn't indicate that's why he answered them, so perhaps there is something to it. The second example is just a poor translation.

Your case on Internet Stranger boils down to some hard waffle-tunneling on mozami, which I also find scummy.

The case for ThirdKoopa has me stalling. What about hiplop? Someone who essentially just posts random slanderbanter that has no context or content? You letting him slip on that is suspicious to me given that you have came down on three others, and the stall on hiplop because of one of the weakest town tells in the history of mafia "boldness = town".

Also, Internet Strangers' post did the following

- AtE, calling him Jr Sherlock Holmes as if to insinuate he's an amateur that needs to think realistically in an offhand way.
- I haven't read the game, but I read your case (lol, you read the biggest wall but not the game?)
- More waffling on mozami
- A promise that is as empty as can be given what he's done thusfar.

My pretend vote goes to internet stranger.
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:55 am

Post by Internet Stranger »

Well damn, no wonder you two are getting your panties in a wad about me. There is nothing out there to go on so you do have to do some major reaching. The first four pages are full of pure garbage. Its setup speculation and RQS bullshit that does NOTHING to the town except have Junpei look like a massive patronizer. Are like some sort of psychiatrist now? Why not hand out Rorschach tests while youre at it Junpei? What kind of secret voodoo bullshit were you trying to uncover in four pages of uselessness? All you accomplished is causing a delay before the game actually started. You allowed the scum to setup their first kill without any pressure. Now the pressure is on the town. No wonder youre so desperate to come after me. All you have done so far is waste the towns time with bullshit RQS and bullshit reads.

Pads andga Junpei have crowned themselves Royal White Knight Defenders of the Town. Apparently if you dont do what they say or you dont do what they like you will be branded as heretic scum and sent to the vote gallows or something. I wouldnt be surprised if one of them two is secretly scum. Scum LOVE to hide as White Knights so that they can direct the town in their own twisted means in a form that they believe is above suspicion. They are also notorious for going after lurkers since they cant control lurkers.

I only feel that I have to explain that due to some of the craptacular reads that people are using to find scum. I wasnt kidding about the junior comment. Its like Lord of the Flies the way some of you are turning into this junior overachiever viciousness that youre spouting. Maybe its paranoia over the different game mechanics. Waffling? WTF? Moz was the only one that stood out at the time, I pointed it out. How the fuck is that waffling? I didnt promise a vote, I didnt promise persecution. I pointed out that Moz was trying really hard at probably playing some leader role. Ahh, no wonder you stomped that down real quick. There is always a White Knight and it wasnt going to be Moz, It was going to be Pads and his junior partner Junpei.


The fact they they (and MOZ!) want to go after a lurker with only two posts (ThirdKoopa) is HUGE and is something that shouldnt be overlooked.

Moz's ISO still looks horrible. A bunch of treading water and playing the role of Captain Obvious.
Viscera is also treading water and posting obvious bullshit.

Hiplop is simply useless. Im curious to know why the White Knight Dynamic Duo arent all up in his ass.

I know who im voting for, but im not going to say who the first day as I dont want to influence anyone's votes, like the scum would want. Scum thsi game will want to make huge public declarations on who they want dead so that the sheep townies will follow. A Scum White Knight in this game is going to do serious damage.

I prefer to keep the votes undeclared, at least day 1. Youre going to get more information from possible scum voting blocks from the reveal tomorrow than these big public executions. Scum know this. Scum are TERRIFIED of this. If scum dont know how townies are going to vote, who would they vote for? Do they jump in two together on someone? Do they spread the votes out? So much information is going to be present tomorrow, but its all going down the toilet if we let the scum manipulate our votes during the day.

A vote count and the subsequent kill is going to give us a shit ton more information than some far reaching bullshit reads are every going to give.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:03 am

Post by Otolia »

In post 145, Internet Stranger wrote:I prefer to keep the votes undeclared, at least day 1. Youre going to get more information from possible scum voting blocks from the reveal tomorrow than these big public executions. Scum know this. Scum are TERRIFIED of this. If scum dont know how townies are going to vote, who would they vote for? Do they jump in two together on someone? Do they spread the votes out? So much information is going to be present tomorrow, but its all going down the toilet if we let the scum manipulate our votes during the day.

You just earned yourself a lot of credit with that small paragraph. I endorse all the above.
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:08 am

Post by hiplop »

ahhh sorry i was REALLY busy this weekend! Catching up now and stuff
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:11 am

Post by hiplop »

ACE is scum, btw.
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:17 am

Post by hiplop »

In post 144, Junpei wrote:Pads, I disagree with your Darox case. I clearly said that they help me scumhunt, I was not being sarcastic, although Darox response doesn't indicate that's why he answered them, so perhaps there is something to it. The second example is just a poor translation.

Your case on Internet Stranger boils down to some hard waffle-tunneling on mozami, which I also find scummy.

The case for ThirdKoopa has me stalling. What about hiplop? Someone who essentially just posts random slanderbanter that has no context or content? You letting him slip on that is suspicious to me given that you have came down on three others, and the stall on hiplop because of one of the weakest town tells in the history of mafia "boldness = town".

Also, Internet Strangers' post did the following

- AtE, calling him Jr Sherlock Holmes as if to insinuate he's an amateur that needs to think realistically in an offhand way.
- I haven't read the game, but I read your case (lol, you read the biggest wall but not the game?)
- More waffling on mozami
- A promise that is as empty as can be given what he's done thusfar.

My pretend vote goes to internet stranger.

Junpei, fucking meta me and after that try and say I'm scum. My town meta is so drastically different than my scum one its not even funny

ACE is scum, and its pretty obvious too. His posts are actually complete fluff and/or repeated knowledge. Its EXACTLY what he did in a previous game with him. (ACE SCUM in game)

Also I'm confirmed town, I didnt log on over the weekend- so I couldnt have NK'd whiskers >_> (half serious)

junpei is eh. Hard to read him, probably town though.

Drips case is BAD. It looks like he CHOSE to think darox is scum. Like he doesnt actually- just looking for things to be scummy, not actually scumhunting. Could be scum IDK
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