Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[Fishythefish]

Got you. The switch to ace was before you'd drawn the ace-CC link.

Ok, so going back to the reason for voting Ace: in 184, he said that CC's wagon looked like a "scum-driven counterwagon [to the Junpei wagon, which Ace was on]". Not sure why you think that's particularly scummy.

[Vi]

Ok, so going back to the reason for voting Ace: in 184, he said that CC's wagon looked like a "scum-driven counterwagon [to the Junpei wagon, which Ace was on]". Not sure why you think that's particularly scummy.

*makes most unnatural facial expression*

[springlullaby]

Can't stop lurking now.

[Shift]

Can't stop lurking now.

VOTE: springlullaby

Options as town:

1. Post
2. Replace out

Options as scum:

1. Post
2. Replace out
3. Get lynched

[sottyrulez]

You realize nothing you posted there is unjustified name calling right?

Yes, I suppose "name calling" is the wrong choice of words. Rather "unjustified generic accusations".

Weeeee bracktrack!

Also, this is how Spring plays all her games. It has no bearing on her alignment, hopefully she'll get replaced sooner rather than later.

[Junpei]

You realize nothing you posted there is unjustified name calling right?

Yes, I suppose "name calling" is the wrong choice of words. Rather "unjustified generic accusations".

Weeeee bracktrack!

Also, this is how Spring plays all her games. It has no bearing on her alignment, hopefully she'll get replaced sooner rather than later.

There.
Was.
No.
Backtrack.

Did you read my post? Did you read his original post?

ATTN: Everyone read this recent exchange, this is getting out of hand.

vote: sottyrulez

[Shift]

You realize nothing you posted there is unjustified name calling right?

Yes, I suppose "name calling" is the wrong choice of words. Rather "unjustified generic accusations".

Weeeee bracktrack!

Also, this is how Spring plays all her games. It has no bearing on her alignment, hopefully she'll get replaced sooner rather than later.

You can't seriously be considering this a backtrack, he's clarifying.

[ace5993]

220 - Votes ace because he thinks ace is slandering the CrabCanon wagon in a bad way. Also he believes CrabCanon vs. sotty is looking like an unproductive slap-fight.

253 - Concerned that CrabCanon said ace's name when he meant 4nxi3ty's name, I'm guessing the reasoning is that CrabCanon allegedly had ace's name in his head because Vi think's they're scum-buddies. More concern about ace's defense of CrabCanon.

376 - Says that the main reason he's voting ace

is

due to CrabCanon - ace relationship.

I really don't like Shift's weak jump to a policy lynch when sotty is at L-2, why do you think springlullaby is a better choice than sotty right now? Here's a hint, we aren't policy lynching today (although springlullaby isn't a bad choice for other reasons). Put up a genuine case on someone or get back on sotty.

[sottyrulez]

You realize nothing you posted there is unjustified name calling right?

Yes, I suppose "name calling" is the wrong choice of words. Rather "unjustified generic accusations".

Weeeee bracktrack!

Also, this is how Spring plays all her games. It has no bearing on her alignment, hopefully she'll get replaced sooner rather than later.

You can't seriously be considering this a backtrack, he's clarifying.

Yes, EVERYTHING we say is scummy, but at some point some of you are going to have to actually turn your brains on.

[ace5993]

Sotty you're defending yourself by claiming absolutely everything someone says about you is not only wrong, but scummy. THAT IS SCUMMY.

[Fishythefish]

You realize nothing you posted there is unjustified name calling right?

Yes, I suppose "name calling" is the wrong choice of words. Rather "unjustified generic accusations".

Weeeee bracktrack!

Yes, I've backtracked. I used the wrong word to describe my point. So what? It doesn't change anything I've said.

[Locke Lamora]

sottyrulez's attitude is giving me a town feel at this stage. I believe they'd both be far less obstinate and instead looking for ways to get out of the lynch as scum. I prefer the Ace lynch.

Unvote; Vote: Ace

Ace, I'd obviously made less posts than SL at that point, but your distinction implies she had made a lot and said nothing, and that I had made none. Why don't you think any of SL's posts up to that point have valid content? Why do you think my 3 posts were worth treating as 'nothing' but her 8 posts weren't? What about CC? Why did almost everything you said about them in 249 suggest they were scum but you still came up with a neutral read? These both read as forced opinions to me that give me the impression you're providing them because you think you ought to say something about those players, not because you have any genuine interest in figuring out their alignment.

Junpei's complaint about the hydra dissonance seems like unnecessary nitpicking and just trying to score points off CC.

Junpei: do you have any reason to believe that Juls stating a differing opinion to VP is indicative of alignment?

saulres: can you summarise why you think Sotty is scum, and why you think that lynch would reveal more information?

[Vi]

253 - Concerned that CrabCanon said ace's name when he meant 4nxi3ty's name, I'm guessing the reasoning is that CrabCanon allegedly had ace's name in his head because Vi think's they're scum-buddies. More concern about ace's defense of CrabCanon.

376 - Says that the main reason he's voting ace

is

due to CrabCanon - ace relationship.

[Junpei]

Junpei: do you have any reason to believe that Juls stating a differing opinion to VP is indicative of alignment?

It tells me that the two of you aren't actually colliding peacefully on all your supposed thoughts of scumhunting and deciding on things, it shows possible lack of actual scumhunting going on in the QT, and it also shows waffling on Guy_Named_Riggs.

Also I'm a bit confused on your bloated reaction to my post, you could have just said that to begin with, you know.

[Crab Canon]

I think what Vi is trying to say is that Ace is not interested in the wagons that involve us (Crab Canon) and is quick to dismiss them. He also says the wagon on us is bullshit while turning around and saying "but CC is scummy for saying my name when he meant Anxiety". Saying a wagon is bullshit on someone you note is scummy is not consistent. Close Vi?

What I don't get is how you think VP accidentally typing Ace instead of Anxiety is some sort of connection to ace when it was clearly a typo. For the most part I don't think ace's views have been scummy but that may be because I tend to agree with some of them (like that our wagon was bullshit). At best he thinks we are town, at worst he is buddying. Obviously we have a different perspective of this since we know we are town so we can't see the scum-motivation to buddy

us

, of all people, at the time he did. It would have been much easier just to jump on the bandwagon and ride the train to lynchville.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote Count 1.13

sottyrulez (L-2) - Crab Canon, ace5993, Fishythefish, saulres, Junpei
ace5993 (L-2) - Vi, sottyrulez, 4nxi3ty, Guy_Named_Riggs, Locke Lamora
Guy_Named_Riggs (L-6) - springlullaby
Junpei (L-6) - Amrun
springlullaby (L-6) - Shift

Not Voting (0)

Deadline: Friday September 30 @ 1:00 PM Eastern
Countdown: (expired on 2011-09-30 13:00:00)

[ace5993]

I never said CrabCanon's name mix-up was explicitly scummy, just that it was bizarre. I don't know what to make of it.

LockeLamora - Here is the difference between you and springlullaby:

Locke ISO:

#49, 122 - Decent

#124, 129 - Neutral

springlullaby ISO:

#3 - No participation in RVS/fluff

#20, #26 - Townhunting

#27 - Fluff

#28 - Townhunting

#54 - Fluff

#84 - Still lacking of any form of scumhunting

#159 - He says sotty's aggressiveness is "good for the town", and fence-sits on CrabCanon

[4nxi3ty]

it looks like springlullaby will be the deciding vote.

i don't want to comment on others until i hear from her, unless fishy really wants clarification on ace.

[saulres]

@Mod

: I'm going to be V/LA from sometime Wednesday until sometime probably Sunday (give or take a day).

[Vi]

I think what Vi is trying to say is that Ace is not interested in the wagons that involve us (Crab Canon) and is quick to dismiss them. He also says the wagon on us is bullshit while turning around and saying "but CC is scummy for saying my name when he meant Anxiety". Saying a wagon is bullshit on someone you note is scummy is not consistent. Close Vi?

*simultaneously half-shrugs and half-nods*

What I don't get is how you think VP accidentally typing Ace instead of Anxiety is some sort of connection to ace when it was clearly a typo.

*puts hand to chest*
*looks bewildered*

*shakes head*
*points to ace5993 with both hands*

not you. I mean SR and ace suddenly turning tail.

*Anxiety

Name mix-ups are VERY important to look at, who's the least likely to mess up a name and in what situation? HINT: Scum usually have pretty good ideas of who their scumbuddies are.

I never said CrabCanon's name mix-up was explicitly scummy, just that it was bizarre. I don't know what to make of it.

*holds arms out with hands up*
*lets jaw hang a little*

[saulres]

Vi? 295 should be 255. Also, you missed one.

however 227 is one of the most bizarre name mess-ups I've ever seen, I'm not sure how he could mix up me and 4nxi3ty in this context when we were on opposite poles of his wagon.

In any case, what I take from this is that you think CC's slip is indicative that CC is scumbuddies with Ace. And SR and 4nxi3ty, the names intended by CC, are people the scumteam of CC and Ace were trying to get busses on 227-228.

Because I enjoy your RP, Vi, give us a show to answer? How about a card trick if yes and a rings trick if no?

[4nxi3ty]

*laughs like a ninja*

*nods*
*brings out typewriter*
*sees keys are spaced very far apart*

[saulres]

saulres: can you summarise why you think Sotty is scum, and why you think that lynch would reveal more information?

Here's the draft I was working on last Wednesday which I reference here. Perhaps it will explain. Spoiler-condensed because it's long and I don't feel like editing it since I was planning on abandoning it.

Spoiler: saved draft sotty vs cc

As promised, I'm looking into sotty vs. CC. Here's what I find.

Vote: 4nxi3ty

Sotty starts RVS with a vote but no explanation.

In 41 CC votes me without explanation, and after Shift puts a vote on me. I don't think we're in RVS at this point.

Also dislike post 121. It's non committal to shift and potentially an associative tell contingent on one of them flipping scum.

Weak argument at best.

4nxi3ty got a lot better as he posted about Shift and about CC.

I infer from this that the RVS vote wasn't actually an RVS vote but a real one, which is bizarre given the lack of explanation earlier.

139 is where their interaction starts. Sotty says "Kill the crab, it's scum." and gives some pretty weak arguments as to why, including one which is based on previous interactions in other games with one of CC's hydra heads. Sotty votes CC here.

In 140 CC counters by using more previous interactions, this time with Vi and DDD. I question the mod Meta and CC explains that they're not using it for anything except to lean towards Vi being town.

In 147 Sotty says character setup speculation is nothing to base reads on.

Character setup speculation, now that's a great reason to think someone is town.

Then in 149 they speculate on character setup.

I'm also some what skeptical that the mod kill rules would be SO strict that you can't tell us what you can or cannot post.

Frankly, it feels to me like you guys are reaching for any reason to vote for us. You really believe the stuff you're citing or are you just trying to pressure us?

So far I'm finding myself agreeing with that.

162, CC finally votes for Sotty.

Clear as day your reasoning was not. That is why you ended up trying to describe what you were apparently trying to say in more detail. Let's not try to rewrite history here.

I think it was pretty clear. Sotty once again trying for a case where there isn't one.

At that point I realized that I kept getting what I felt as townfeel for CC and scumfeel for Sotty. I did some skimming instead of continuing the details and found nothing which made me change my mind.

I don't think there's a solid enough case on ace and the one on sotty seem stronger, so I'd rather lynch the more likely scum. If he flips town, then CC is certainly worth looking into more.

So why do I think his flip will be more informative than Ace's? Vi, sotty, and 4nxi3ty

as a group

went from voting CC to voting Ace. I feel a flip of someone in that group will be much more useful during future VCA than someone whose votes only seem to be following their own thinking instead of a sheep mentality.

[ace5993]

Vi I've already said you misread that:

Name mix-ups are VERY important to look at, who's the

least

likely to mess up a name and in what situation? HINT: Scum usually have pretty good ideas of who their scumbuddies are.

Surely this cannot be your main reason for voting me? Do you still believe CrabCanon is scum?

[Vi]

*opens bull-shaped mailbox*
*finds list of ace5993's tells*

Surely this cannot be your main reason for voting me?

*shakes head*

Do you still believe CrabCanon is scum?

*shakes head*

*pauses*
*holds up pointer finger*
*walks off stage in huff*