Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[Crab Canon]

@spring - I can't help but notice you take "regular posting" into consideration several times. I am curious what that makes you since your stance is to lurk for 10 pages (or more).

@amrun - why do you think shift is more viable than junpei? I would personally be more interested in the latter. Right now I would go for junpei, ace, or sotty. I really don't like how sotty has not posted much since the sr wagon deteriorated.

[4nxi3ty]

whatever, i am willing to hammer shift if it makes it that far.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote Count 1.15

ace5993 (L-3) - sottyrulez, Guy_Named_Riggs, Locke Lamora, Crab Canon
springlullaby (L-4) – Shift, Vi, ace5993
sottyrulez (L-4) - Fishythefish, saulres, Junpei
Guy_Named_Riggs (L-6) – springlullaby
Saulres (L-6) - 4nxi3ty
Shift (L-6) - Amrun

Not Voting (0)

Deadline: Friday September 30 @ 1:00 PM Eastern
Countdown: (expired on 2011-09-30 13:00:00)

[Shift]

SHIFT

15. Answer Junpei, VOTE VI
19. Answer Amrun. First impression was that it looked like town expressing frustration encountered in the past, now it looks bad because what shift says is kinda nonsensical: i have never seen anyone being lynched for not answering rsq
23. ok answer about mafia experience I guess, smells a tad of newbie card; fluff answer to fluff questionning from anxiety
32. Comment on Vi, VOTE SAULRES out of nowhere - MEH
59. fluff
61.say saulres' reaction to his vote is scumtastic without saying why + post padding - meh
64. a bit of backtracking on saulres: from 'scumstastic' to 'reasonable vote' - PINGING
67. lurer prodding + fluff - MEH
76. overreactive reply to saulres, calls him scum for what??? +fluff post - DO NOT LIKE
78. fluff banter with VI
80. same as above - ME NOT LIKE
82. same as above - NOT LIKE
102. not seeing Junpei as scum, announce that he may move his vote soon, why announce it --- DO NOT LIKE
113. Reasonable question to anxiety, and lol and saul ace assoc - DO NOT LIKE the LOL bit - does it mean that you are scum with people other than saul or ace?
117. say that he has skimmed, this post is a BAD POST
119. honest enough but scum can do that too
156. filler
251. Lol at suspicions on him - no likey, VOTE GNR, I agree with that vote, but the way it's stuck in the middle give me a bad feeling.
254. Says that VI is goodposting - why. suspicion are Riggs/Ace/Sotty - haven't seen anything on ace before that
260. Shift is leaning scum on sotty...long post with very little content - BAD
317. very opportunistic VOTE SOTTY - HORRIBLE SCUM
338. ok comment on Locke
367. says CC is town, amrun is town, ace and junpei unsure, anxiety unreadable. Disagree strongly with ace and junpei read. - this post leaves to much room for mislynch, and is basically repeating popular town read --SCUM
378. VOTE ME.
381. tell sotty that he can't consider fishy to be backtracking
383. ATE
457. yeah, why??
458. Vi is prolly town???

Conclusion: High danger of being scum. The vote on Saulres was bad and drawn out for too long for the weak (if any) reasoning that supported it, as bad as the way he removed his vote from saulres. The vote on Sotty was also really opportunistic. Vote hoping pattern with no individual scumhunting to speak of. Looks like scum alright.

Sigh, looks like school work will have to wait. I've got to go to bed soon but hopefully I can respond to most of this, if not too bad you'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Some of this is all kinds of bad, will take this one part at a time.

19. Answer Amrun. First impression was that it looked like town expressing frustration encountered in the past, now it looks bad because what shift says is kinda nonsensical: i have never seen anyone being lynched for not answering rsq

I didn't say they were lynched. I said it led to pointless arguing about not answering the RQS questions, often taking up several pages and said I'd rather avoid it.

23. ok answer about mafia experience I guess, smells a tad of newbie card; fluff answer to fluff questionning from anxiety

Here you're trying to paint my "fluff" in a slightly scummy light. This is when the players are still getting familiar with each other, how you can try to paint this as pointless fluff is beyond me.

@shift, are you trying to say you'd rather avoid interactions between players like saulres and junpei?

Not them in particular as some people understand my point of view, but I'd rather not gamble they do with the consequence being 5 pages of stupidity and time wasting if they don't.

32. Comment on Vi, VOTE SAULRES out of nowhere - MEH
59. fluff

I don't have a post 59. Vote on Saulres was still in RVS, mine was the first semiserious vote and I explained it in 61.

64. a bit of backtracking on saulres: from 'scumstastic' to 'reasonable vote' - PINGING
67. lurer prodding + fluff - MEH
76. overreactive reply to saulres, calls him scum for what??? +fluff post - DO NOT LIKE
78. fluff banter with VI
80. same as above - ME NOT LIKE
82. same as above - NOT LIKE

Strong reads fade, deal with it especially when better votes come up. I again make a lot of jokes, see for yourself in Blaz Blue. I was town. To go further, a lot of it was with Vi.

102. not seeing Junpei as scum, announce that he may move his vote soon, why announce it --- DO NOT LIKE
113. Reasonable question to anxiety, and lol and saul ace assoc - DO NOT LIKE the LOL bit - does it mean that you are scum with people other than saul or ace?

102 I'm looking for a better spot to put it, not sure where it would end up.
113 I find it humorous when people try to draw connections so early on in the game, especially when they're wrong (Tip: Me being town makes them wrong too)

117. say that he has skimmed, this post is a BAD POST
119. honest enough but scum can do that too
156. filler

My 117:

Shift, what made you think that anyone was voting Junpei for asking RQS questions?

Skimmed, saw something about his RQS questions and something about hopping on the saulres bandwagon which obviously I'm not going to complain about.

I don't see how it's that hard to see that I can assume this when I blatantly admit to skimming.

156:

Haven't had time to read today as I've been very busy, I'm free the rest of the week though. Will read+post tomorrow.

Being busy is not scummy, you trying to paint me as scummy for using "filler" explaining I'm busy is just flat out bad.

251. Lol at suspicions on him - no likey, VOTE GNR, I agree with that vote, but the way it's stuck in the middle give me a bad feeling.
254. Says that VI is goodposting - why. suspicion are Riggs/Ace/Sotty - haven't seen anything on ace before that

My 251. You literally cut out half of the post. Also talks about ace, which you failed to see based off your appraisal of 254.

260. Shift is leaning scum on sotty...long post with very little content - BAD
317. very opportunistic VOTE SOTTY - HORRIBLE SCUM

I expressed my opinion of Sotty in 251 by saying Amrun's 187 as parallel to my feelings. I see no reason to simply rephrase another player. The vote had been a few pages in the making, accusations against CC were pretty baseless.

260 I was answering questions, which is why it was long. Please explain how it is bad.

367. says CC is town, amrun is town, ace and junpei unsure, anxiety unreadable. Disagree strongly with ace and junpei read. - this post leaves to much room for mislynch, and is basically repeating popular town read --SCUM

You conveniently leave out my town read on Vi but I'll get there later. I gave three town reads and stated null reads on several and a scum read. "Repeating popular town read". Funny, I pointed out this in Locke's posts yet you don't seem to care.

378. VOTE ME.
381. tell sotty that he can't consider fishy to be backtracking
383. ATE
457. yeah, why??
458. Vi is prolly town???

378-I gave you a pressure vote. It worked.

381-This is bad how? Calling Fishy's statement a backtrack was an attempt to paint his statement as scummy when it was pretty obviously just a wrong choice of words-the idea was right.

383 I don't have a 383. This is twice now you've found something scummy in posts I haven't made.

457-Reminder to respond tomorrow

458- Vi is prolly town???

254. Says that VI is goodposting

Vi IS town

I like Vi so far but again want to know which wagons ace is referring to before passing judgment on his wagon.

This read is by no means sudden like you're trying to pass it off as.

Anyway I'm limited on time, I will definitely follow this up because I have to go to bed right now and don't have time to say everything I want to. Spring's summary of me is terrible and I'll be ripping it apart again tomorrow. I have an A in English anyway, one bad grade isn't going to kill me.

[saulres]

Putting a game above schoolwork? That's scum talk!

(j/k)

[Fishythefish]

I'm curious, why is everyone ignoring GNR?
Just from that my vote stays.

I've seen the sotty and ace wagon. I find neither more scummy than GNR.
Their lynches aren't going to be informative either because:
1. sotty wagon has been led by crab who is a dead town read of mine. it's contaminated by too much town anger.
2. the ace wagon has been led by sotty who is 50/50 manipulative town who's saving neck when his case on crab explodedor manipulative scum who's saving neck when his case on crab exploded.

Between sotty and ace, I find Sotty to be slightly more at risk to be scum.

But neither are glaringly obviously bad as GNR.

Why do people find spring going after GNR scummy?

*turns off smoke machine*
*gestures for assistants to remove mirrors*

Here, SL is saying that she doesn't like the sotty or crab wagons, preferring to stay on a lurker wagon. Not quite sure what you're trying to say, but this is not the behaviour I'd expect from scum, and lots of people have used it to confirm their vote for her. Which I find a bit suspect - feels like they really knew their votes for SL weren't that good. Again, fits with the counterwagon vibe.

SL has notes like that, and

lurks

. Grrrr.

Walls, walls. I'll read them this evening, and probably move my vote. No idea why, but sotty doesn't seem to be getting lynched.

[Locke Lamora]

Junpei: I don't think we're particularly getting anywhere with this, so I'll drop it after this, but I think your complaint seems to me to be more to do with an issue based on game theory than the actual evidence in the thread. There are no problems determining thought process or who believes what, because it's quite clearly stated. So yes, if VP and Juls flip-flop between reads without stating that they have differing opinions and then later claim that it was because the heads didn't agree, it's scummy. If Juls says 'I disagree with VP, and here's why', and furthermore states why she voiced her opinion without VP's agreement, the problems you cite don't come into play. We could easily have a theory argument about hydras in this context but I don't believe it's indicative of their alignment at all, and that's why I think it's a stretch.

SL: to answer your question, GNR is exactly why I don't play newbie games. Some of his posts have been so bad that I find them hard to analyse for motive, because on one hand I think that they're just plain scummy, but on the other he just keeps doing things that are so clueless that I think there's no way scum would ever post it. I've lynched newbie players for playing like this and been astonished that they're town, and I've given newbie players a pass for playing like this and then hated them because they're scum. In short, he's scummy, but I have no idea if it's indicative of his alignment.

I have to agree with Fishy on SL. It feels like a particularly weak wagon where players are looking for any extra evidence to justify their hop. Everybody vote Ace.

[ace5993]

Unvote, Vote: sottyrulez

Meh, Springlullaby's wall makes me think he was somewhat disinterested town rather than active lurking.

Ace: why is my 124 'neutral' yet multiple SL one-liners are 'fluff'? Why are my first two posts 'decent' yet SL 84 and 159 are dismissed? You're obviously not treating us even remotely similarly, you're just stretching and creating a dichotomy to make SL look scummier. The fact that you're now actually relying on this nonsense as a 'case' reinforces my scum read

You posted "this is why I'm not posting much", after two decent posts. Springlullaby was posting fluff/bad content in about ten posts (asking dumb questions about Vi's post restriction, townhunting instead of scumhunting, fence-sitting, etc.). Can you really not see the difference between your ISOs posts 1-200?

[Locke Lamora]

That's it? Do you have any interest in the content of the wall, or is it just the wall itself that suddenly changes your read?

Yes, I see the difference. SL stated that she likes to lurk a few times. You seem to be implying that the overall volume of SL's posts negatively affects the content of each individual post.

[springlullaby]

@spring - I can't help but notice you take "regular posting" into consideration several times. I am curious what that makes you since your stance is to lurk for 10 pages (or more).

1. I'm an hypocrite.
2. With regular posting I kinda mean more than at equal interval of time. It is a lazy description which also mean tone/attitude. For example I think the way Shift's attitude/tone changes when he backtracked from his Saulres vote is suspect: he goes from bold to sheepish, then bold again when his backtrack has been negotiated. Another example would be lying low during heated debates.

VOTE SHIFT

[Vi]

Unvote, Vote: sottyrulez

Meh, Springlullaby's wall makes me think he was somewhat disinterested town rather than active lurking.

BUT skimming through, perhaps Shift is more viable.

I'MMA TRY IT

VOTE: Shift

*grits teeth*
*begins slapping the stupid out of both of you*

My opinion is that my current vote is a good one. Please see last

reversed chainsaw defense

in:

So I was catchting up on reading and saw Spring had about 3 votes added to him?

I must have missed it, can someone tell where the case agaisnt him is?

Deciphering this for you: GNR is defending un-defendable behavior (namely lurking) because
1) he is a lurker himself so what he is saying is in reality 'I'm a lurker and I shouldn't be lynched'
2) he is pre-emptively trying to associate town points for himself when/if I flip town because of our likeness of behavior.

*points to bolded*
*reads "deciphering"*
*reaches into pants*
*pulls out steaming pile*

*checks calendar*
*marks springlullaby's entrance*

You are voting me 3 days near deadline

springlullaby (L-3) %u2013 Shift, Vi, Amrun, ace5993

In between all lurkers, GNR is certainly scummier than me.

*grabs life preserver*
*throws it around springlullaby's neck*

Pattern of dismissing other's effort at deciphering her while not putting in the effort of making herself more clear.

@Vi

Do you have a post restriction with you being a mime/only allowed to do emote? (make a flower appear if yes/a carrot if no)
Does it have a time limit? (Make a rabbit appear if yes/ a parrot if no)
Does it have a word count limit? (make a tv appear if yes/ a radio if no)
Anything else we should know about? (make two shoes appear if yes/ a pair of knickers if no)
Are you scum? (a rope if yes/ an apple if no)

*dirty look*

Why?

*extends one-finger salute*

*writes novel*
*holds novel up*
*puts on reading glasses*
*opens mouth*

...

*shoots deathglances at springlullaby*

Three 'confirm votes' on Ace with weak reasoning (association tell as far as I can make out), dropped

speedily

for a lurker vote.

*returns to calendar*

*

confirms vote on ace5993

*

*marks a week ago today*

*

votes springlullaby

*

*marks yesterday*
*draws line through entire week between the two dates*

*

points fist of imminent death at springlullaby

*

So I was catchting up on reading and saw Spring had about 3 votes added to him?

I must have missed it, can someone tell where the case agaisnt him is?

*pushes springlullaby off cliff*
*watches GNR jump after her with first aid kit*

So I was catchting up on reading and saw Spring had about 3 votes added to him?

I must have missed it, can someone tell where the case agaisnt him is?

*waves hands slowly and dramatically*
*causes demon horns to appear behind springlullaby*
*continues waving hands*
*causes demon horns to consequently appear behind Guy_Named_Riggs*

*closes curtain*
*opens curtain to show GNR bound and gagged while springlullaby drives a bus swiftly toward him*
*audience gasps*

*

points fist of imminent death at Guy_Named_Riggs

*

Wow. Springlullaby just gained a 4 vote wagon in just over a page, for lurking. She has been lurking all game. This feels very much like a distraction from either ace or sotty.

At this stage, I'd have thought scum would have more reason to go for one of the other wagons to avoid their lynch, rather than sit on an unpopular lurker wagon. Still really not seeing where this spring wagon came from.

SL has notes like that, and

lurks

. Grrrr.

Walls, walls. I'll read them this evening

*eyebrow raise*
*starts flipping through Fishythefish's deck of cards*
*finds deck is stacked in favor of springlullaby*

*

points finger of suspicion at Fishythefish

*

*

confirms vote on springlullaby

*

[springlullaby]

@Vi
As far as I can tell you are accusing me:
1. Lurking
2. Saving my neck by voting GNR
3. Bussing GNR


Well
1. You know for a fact that my lurking has no bearing on my alignment.
2. Scum saving their neck implies that they would vote whomever as long as it saves them. This is not true of me.
3. This weaken your 'neck saving theory' as it would suppose that I'm choosing to vote a scumbuddy whereas there are two others very viable wagon.

Now, your confirm vote means nothing to me as you confirmed your vote thrice on Ace. Only to have your suspicions vanish into thin air as it seems that you are suspecting GNR, Fishy, and me now. The suspicions for the formers seemingly only based on association tells (on day one).

This is uncharacteristically weak scumhunting from you.
Tell me, why not vote GNR since you think I'm bussing him?

I don't know what you mean by the elapsed time between your vote on ace and your vote on me. You confirmed your vote three times on ace and seemed very ready to lynch him, but as I said it vanished completely. I do not expect that from town. Do you have any genuine conviction about who may be scum or are you just interested in throwing bs around while getting a free pass because people are willing to be lenient due your apparent restriction?

[springlullaby]

@Shift
Read your reply.
Your are correct in saying that there are post reporting error in my notes. However they are only editing error (my classing the post under the wrong names). My notes only help ne form impressions. It is the conclusion you need to defend against. More generally, I just think you are scum as there is nothing town in you. You are the creeping, plentiful posters with obsequious buddying but no real scumhunting and opportunist vote hopping kind.

@ Crab Canon
I feel the Ace wagon is a really crappy one. It generated in the nothingness of Vi's association tell (on day one!), continued with Sotty's muddy vote after his wagon on you failed, and then got hopped on by people who are only half convinced about it, but were unable to move their on prefered wagon.
Would you please give GNR and Shift a reread?

[springlullaby]

Also, Vi what do you think of Shift?

[Crab Canon]

I am not interested in either of those wagons today Spring. GNR, while I do feel is scummy, I want to discuss him more with my other half when he returns. In this regard he is closely tied to Sotty and I would be up for that lynch. If Sotty were to flip scum GNR would be my number one target. With regards to Shift, I think he is pretty preoccupied with life. I do have a small town-tell from him early where you tried to say one of his posts were coming from town based on his "join date" and he corrected you. In other words, he didn't want to get a free pass because of his join date. I think scum would have been content to let you continue believing the way you do. So I am not interested in that lynch either. We have a fast approaching deadline here. It's either going to be ace, you, or Sotty. I would prefer ace. I don't think you are as scummy as Vi thinks you are mainly because you have been so blatant about your lurkiness. I do agree this sudden interest in the game is an attempt to not get lynched but I don't know that it is always scum that will pull out all stops to not get lynched. I also liked your honesty when I asked you the "regular posting" question. My read on you is "slightly leaning town".

We have 52 hours until deadline folks, we need to come to a consensus. Please note the wagons you are interested in joining in your next post. For me, as stated already, I would be willing to get on a ace, sotty, or Junpei wagon today. I might consider a saulres wagon but it's awful late to start that up. Keep in mind that we need to get someone to L-1 today so we can get a claim and adjust if necessary.

[4nxi3ty]

since a lot of people aren't paying attention, i will explain these two quotes:

Confirm vote: 4nxi3ty

I highly suggest everyone else policy lynch him until he stops posting like that.

Unless Vi converted him?

here is saul's original reasons for voting me. he gets scumvibes from me yet pushes a policy lynch later. this is not an accurate thought process if he were town.

I really don't like Shift's weak jump to a policy lynch when sotty is at L-2, why do you think springlullaby is a better choice than sotty right now? Here's a hint, we aren't policy lynching today (although springlullaby isn't a bad choice for other reasons). Put up a genuine case on someone or get back on sotty.

ace completely ignores saulres' policy lynch reason even though saulres has been significantly more scummy than shift.

that being said i am up for either a saulres or ace lynch. however, if i push a lynch between ace and sotty more people are gonna vote for sotty,ie. vote for saulres or mislynch sotty.

/smashes head against wall

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote Count 1.16

ace5993 (L-3) - sottyrulez, Guy_Named_Riggs, Locke Lamora, Crab Canon
sottyrulez (L-3) - Fishythefish, saulres, Junpei, ace5993
springlullaby (L-5) – Shift, Vi
Shift (L-5) – Amrun, springlullaby
saulres (L-6) - 4nxi3ty

Not Voting (0)

Deadline: Friday September 30 @ 1:00 PM Eastern
Countdown: (expired on 2011-09-30 13:00:00)

[sottyrulez]

@amrun - why do you think shift is more viable than junpei? I would personally be more interested in the latter. Right now I would go for junpei, ace, or sotty. I really don't like how sotty has not posted much since the sr wagon deteriorated.

Actually, we curtailed our posting long before that. Perhaps the real question should be, why did our wagon implode when we didn't do anything to make it happen? Something we've been chewing on a little.

I very much dislike PBPA a method of case building. You can pretty much represent anyone's post how ever you like. It makes it very easy for scum to make mountains out of molehills and for town to succumb to their already present biases. I guess as a catch up method it's okish.. But I still don't like it and rarely take PBPA's seriously.

With that in mind, ace abandoning ship is just awesome.

We currently have different opinions on Spring so we're talking it out . Expect something on her in a little while.

[springlullaby]

I am not interested in either of those wagons today Spring.

GNR, while I do feel is scummy

, I want to discuss him more with my other half when he returns. In this regard he is

closely tied to Sotty

and I would be up for that lynch. If Sotty were to flip scum GNR would be my number one target. With regards to Shift, I think he is pretty preoccupied with life. I do have a small town-tell from him early where you tried to say one of his posts were coming from town based on his "join date" and he corrected you. In other words, he didn't want to get a free pass because of his join date. I think scum would have been content to let you continue believing the way you do. So I am not interested in that lynch either. We have a fast approaching deadline here.

It's either going to be ace, you, or Sotty

. I would prefer ace. I don't think you are as scummy as Vi thinks you are mainly because you have been so blatant about your lurkiness. I do agree this sudden interest in the game is an attempt to not get lynched but I don't know that it is always scum that will pull out all stops to not get lynched. I also liked your honesty when I asked you the "regular posting" question. My read on you is "slightly leaning town".

We have 52 hours until deadline folks, we need to come to a consensus. Please note the wagons you are interested in joining in your next post. For me, as stated already, I would be willing to get on a ace, sotty, or Junpei wagon today. I might consider a saulres wagon but it's awful late to start that up. Keep in mind that we need to get someone to L-1 today so we can get a claim and adjust if necessary.

Aww. Come on. You realize that by your own analysis you are on the stinkiest wagon currently available, yes?
Ace is just so totally not scum.
And what you said about shift is a null tell, it is done by both scum and town.

Come on, just joing the Shift wagon (because no one is considering GNR apparently for reasons beyond me). It's good, it smells of FLOWERS. It has Amrun and me on it!! We can make it happens.

[saulres]

Or, rejoin the much more viable SR wagon. If you think GNR is scum, then you have to think SR's also scum from the way GNR treated him in 243.

[Shift]

Phone post as I'm at school. Would reqeuest no one vote me until I get home and can call Spring out on their bullshit which is getting worse and worse every post.

[4nxi3ty]

Again, I don't understand why you're being obstinate toward very specific questions that should be easy to answer if you're town.

I was answering saulres' question because he asked. Presumably, he wanted to get a better read on me and answering his question would help him do that. I don't see a reason to ignore questions asked to me.

do you agree with junpei, that not answering questions=scum?

or maybe ignoring some questions to avoid circular arguements is better?

CC i am still waiting for an answer to those two questions, i don't need whole a case on what is scummy, just a simple answer to the questions and why you chose to answer saulres and not me.

[sottyrulez]

Or, rejoin the much more viable SR wagon. If you think GNR is scum, then you have to think SR's also scum from the way GNR treated him in 243.

Wait, I thought we were scum with Vi and Anxiety. What happened to that?

We like Springs recent burst of content even if we don't agree with everything she said, namely her reads. They seem a little

too

cookie cutter and I don't see her taking any real risks with what she posted.

Still, we think there are much better people to lynch I.E ace, who's flip flop over us and Spring is just really terrible.

saulres hasn't actually laid out why we are scummy, just that he thinks we are the best information lynch and that isn't really a good reason at all. He hasn't given us anything to answer for or to explain, just "I want to know your alignment." What are we expected to do with that?

[sottyrulez]

Or, rejoin the much more viable SR wagon. If you think GNR is scum, then you have to think SR's also scum from the way GNR treated him in 243.

I'm confused as to where you think the link is here. (If there's any link, I think it's GNR with Ace and he's accusing us of busing to throw off the fact that he's actually the one doing the busing here.)

Actually made note of that some time ago but I don't particularly like to use associative based reasoning as a basis for lynch.

As it is, I could easily support a GNR lynch based on the fact that he's posted pretty much nothing redeemable.

[Amrun]

@amrun - why do you think shift is more viable than junpei?

Maybe because I pushed Junpei for like 15 pages and not one person ever joined me, to my recollection?

That being said, if Junpei DOES have viability, I am ALL FOR IT. So far, I think me and you are the only ones willing to vote for him.

Sotty, would you vote Junpei? You mentioned liking my post/vote on him some time ago.