Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[StefanB]

Okay,

Unvote:

Vote: Otalia

,
why exactly do you want to see MoI gone? Because he acused you? Have you anythink that let you think he is antitown? Or do you think he is bad so he would be a good policitylynch?
Explain that please.
Sorry I was kind of bussy (on this site) today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@EVERYONE ELSE - Please explain to me exactly why Otolia does need votes? How does

EBWOP -

this should read : explain to me exactly why Otolia

doesn't

need votes?

The bolded is the change and it is rather significant.

[Otolia]

1. Refusal to scum-hunt.
2. Active lurking.
3. Voting on policy reasons after explicitly saying he was waiting for a valid wagon

What I really want is to see you shut your annoying mouth. That's what I want. I know you feel entitled to lead the town to a marvelous victory because you are so full of yourself you can't possibly imagine yourself not being right, but you might want to tone it a bit. Just for the sake of your head, I worry about your health.

1. I never refused to scum-hunt. I did stated that I didn't want to actively scum-hunt. You could say it the same, and in a sense it is but it doesn't mean I don't scumhunt. Affronting you might prove itself more useful than not, maybe i'll get many people to voice their opinion and maybe some votes/vote-hop and so on.
2. I guess I'm active lurking in the sense that i don't contribute directly to the progression of the game.
3. It's not policy reasons, it's an extended RVS. A 'you are annoying vote'. You already showed us that you are quick on jumping to conclusion but that's far-fetched even from you. If you didn't really get the non-seriousness of this vote, you might as well say it. Another reason to lynch me would be because sarcastic people are more difficult to judge but you didn't mention that, did you ?

If I were you I would worry about Oversoul, compulsive poster of the first class, you is awfully quiet here when he post ~6 posts in another game. Trying to blend in in a large game is harder than voting once per day until someones remarks it.

[sageamagoo]

Yo. Imma replacement.
Okay, quick thoughts on my first read-through:


Baby Spice seems town to me, despite the large wagon forming around her. Her style is pro-town even though her comments aren't useful.

zmuffin is leaning scum. I would lean town, but with him it seems that he's whatever he dosen't seem to be.

Magna is very accusational, and is probably anti-town.

Ludi seems like scum. (yep, I said it. I saw a few other games where the person contributing the most had the most to hide.)

Whisper is an intelligent player and IDC whether she's town or not, we are NOT lynching her unless she gives off very scummy vibes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What I really want is to see you shut your annoying mouth. That's what I want.

Is it annoying because I’ve caught you for what you think are bad reasons?

I know you feel entitled to lead the town to a marvelous victory because

you are so full of yourself you can't possibly imagine yourself not being right

, but you might want to tone it a bit. Just for the sake of your head, I worry about your health.

So despite never having played with me before (which you acknowledged earlier) you’ve suddenly made the bolded sweeping judgement about me. Lovely. I’ve never said I’m never wrong. Even the best scum-hunters aren’t 100% accurate. That said I’m on a pretty good hot-streak lynching scum (BTTF Mafia, [REDACTED]) as of late so excuse me if I don’t go second-guessing myself based on AtE.

As for the ‘worry about your health’ I’m not sure whether to take that as a “My scum team is definitely NKing you tonight’ threat or not. Regardless you should gander and my title and realize it probably doesn’t much matter in a multi-scum game if I ‘lay back’ or not.

1.

I never refused to scum-hunt. I did stated that I didn't want to actively scum-hunt. You could say it the same, and in a sense it is but it doesn't mean I don't scumhunt.

Affronting you might prove itself more useful than not, maybe i'll get many people to voice their opinion and maybe some votes/vote-hop and so on.

The bolded is professional splitting hairs. Yes, I do say they are one and the same.

So your plan is to get other people to voice opinions by choosing not to scum-hunt and making scummy votes? And that you’ll get some votes to analyse?

2. I guess I'm active lurking in the sense that i don't contribute directly to the progression of the game.

Insert face-palm pic here …

3. It's not policy reasons, it's an extended RVS. A 'you are annoying vote'. You already showed us that you are quick on jumping to conclusion but that's far-fetched even from you. If you didn't really get the non-seriousness of this vote, you might as well say it. Another reason to lynch me would be because sarcastic people are more difficult to judge but you didn't mention that, did you ?

Extended RVS? Um, no.

This ‘Oh it was a joke vote’ doesn’t cut it. ‘

Please eat rope!

If I were you I would worry about Oversoul, compulsive poster of the first class, you is awfully quiet here when he post ~6 posts in another game. Trying to blend in in a large game is harder than voting once per day until someones remarks it.

And here we have the classic “I’m not scummy for what I am doing … but look over here Player Y is scummy for doing exactly the same thing” scum self-defense. If he is scummy for having no scum-hunting why aren't you?

Oversoul replaced in on Wednesday. He isn’t even due a prod yet. If a week into his tenure in the game (next Tuesday) he has an ISO filled with non-scum hunting like yours I certainly will consider him as possible scum.

More Otolia Votes Please!!!!!!

--

Whisper is an intelligent player and IDC whether she's town or not, we are NOT lynching her unless she gives off very scummy vibes.

Please elaborate on how you’ve divined that Whisper is an intelligent player from her 3 post ISO that is as spares as Otolia’s on content.

[Ghostlin]

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

Your superior argumentation convinced me to vote for someone I do not want to see by tomorrow.

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

What is this---I don't even---

You're

not even trying

and while I'm not a huge fan of what I've seen about MoI, I'm not sure his play is scummy. What's worse is

you're trying to justify not even trying

.

Yeah, in order right now: the amazing prod dodging DX who can't be arsed to vote, the OMGUS not trying Otolia, and then maybe if we have time we can discuss lynching someone else--BS really is not the lynch today.

[sorgster]

Unvote

My analysis of him just made me feel dumb about that vote

Vote Othallio

[Ghostlin]

MoI's right. Plus the continued explanation of not wanting to play this game by not playing it and the fact he's...not really given any scum reads makes me less than comfortable. I'm willing to put the DX wagon in abeyance to lynch someone equally horrible.

Unvote.
Vote: Otolia

[StefanB]

Sorry Ghostlin, your post from earlyer, about the neighborizing.
Well depends on the power of the role that the secret society has. I would definitly neighborize a strong townread, whom not sure. (If I have this power, I have several candidates, but have not yet decieding on one of them.

Sage: Why do you feel the need to defend someone so strong who has only one vote on her?
Why would you not lynch her even if she is scum? (Your post does imply that)
Your reaction to Muffin, you read him as town, but think he is antitown because of that. Please make that more clear. Have you any info about Muffin?
Has that scumread somethink to do with your defence on Whisper, since he is votting her at the moment?

[Otolia]

@MoI

: There is nothing I want to answer to you right now. If I continue to argue the way I am doing it right now, I'm going to end up insulting you and that won't help anyone. You basically force me to engaged in a childish pride contest by screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post. I gave it to you and you will feel dumb for five minutes in almost every possible ending of this contest and you are going to move on afterwards. I suggest you tone down the witch hunting and start your motivation analyzing tool on why you I face you that stubbornly and we can both move on untouched.

Your choice.

Here is what we are going to do :

• You stop screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post and I'll answer every questions you and anyone ask me.
  
• You unvote me and I'll invest more time into this game.

PS : I fear this might be interpreted as scum trying to negotiate but at this point, it's better than heading in the wall.

[sorgster]

it isn't a pride contest. He put a case against you and voted

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI : There is nothing I want to answer to you right now. If I continue to argue the way I am doing it right now, I'm going to end up insulting you and that won't help anyone.

Ok, continue to sit there as votes amass on you. I’m not opposed to that plan.

You basically force me to engaged in a childish pride contest by screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post. I gave it to you and you will feel dumb for five minutes in almost every possible ending of this contest and you are going to move on afterwards

No, I predict I will not feel dumb in 100% of all scenarios. I’ve called you out for not scum-hunting and your responses have been, in rough order

1. I can because I want to.
2. Hell sometimes I actually play but here I want to sit back and do nothing because [insert softclaim of PR]
3. You are annoying here’s my vote
4. You are annoying and stupid and stuff.

Note what didn't happen at any point? Scum-hunting.

I suggest you tone down the witch hunting and start your motivation analyzing tool on why you I face you that stubbornly and we can both move on untouched. Your choice.

I don’t see any Town motivation in your play as it has existed so far. You may continue to call it a ‘witch hunt’ if you wish … I call it scum-hunting.

Here is what we are going to do :
• You stop screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post and I'll answer every questions you and anyone ask me.
• You unvote me and I'll invest more time into this game.

Um this is funny. Earlier in thread you basically told me “I don’t have to bow to you”.

What makes you think you are in ANY position to tell me what I’m going to do? I’ll continue to call for your head and campaign to get you lynched if you play as scum. Posting your demands isn’t going to make me think you any less likely to be scum. Your behavior has changed not one bit.

I think the line used by Faraday is "We don't bargain with terrorists".

[PeregrineV]

@Ghostlin- Not at this point. I usually need a lot more info to work off of.

Ftr, the lack of miller claim was the fact I actually forgot that we were a miller due to the sheer quantity of text in our role PM. It kinda got side-noted for me, though cons claimed it when I said we should probably claim it (I would've done it myself but was headed out at the time).

See, that wasn't so hard.

@Baby- I've seen worse from others, so objectively you seemed irritated, but you know you best.

@MoI- David is still brooding over the act of placing a simple vote. What does that say to you?

I'm not feeling the Otolia as scum thing either. Scum doesn't walk in and stick their [REDACTED] into a blender to start the game.
If you're voting him for annoyingness, then fine. But in all cases, lynching scum is preferred.

[Yosarian2]

@Yos

– You never answered (or I missed it) …. have you ever played with BabySpice before?

I don't think I have. Why, do you have meta on her?

[Otolia]

@MoI

: So be it. I proposed what I felt was a reasonable agreement that could eventually be discussed, and instead of trying to push further your case and trying to corner me (considering that from your PoV I'm scum), you showed self-confidence and refused the challenge. Though it's entirely my responsibility if I am in the current situation, not showing comprehension and willingness to discuss calmly is your mistake.

I don't know what I can do right now. I'm going off this topic for the weekend and when I'm not pissed at MoI, I'll see things better.

In the mean time, I inform you that I usually don't claim D1.

[sorgster]

@MoI

: There is nothing I want to answer to you right now. If I continue to argue the way I am doing it right now, I'm going to end up insulting you and that won't help anyone. You basically force me to engaged in a childish pride contest by screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post. I gave it to you and you will feel dumb for five minutes in almost every possible ending of this contest and you are going to move on afterwards. I suggest you tone down the witch hunting and start your motivation analyzing tool on why you I face you that stubbornly and we can both move on untouched.

Your choice.

Here is what we are going to do :

• You stop screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post and I'll answer every questions you and anyone ask me.
  
• You unvote me and I'll invest more time into this game.

PS : I fear this might be interpreted as scum trying to negotiate but at this point, it's better than heading in the wall.

This is saying that you have no defence as well as your latest post.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, Baby Spice posted a very long and detailed post abotu why she thinks she's already answered my questions and why she thinks I'm misrepresenting her. I don't really feel like debating that with her, because long line-by-line wall of text back and fourth debate fighting over the exact meaning of specific word choices in posts doesn't seem very likely to help me figure out her alignment here.

Baby Spice: This is going nowhere, I think, so let's start over, ok? You are still voting for ML. Do you currently think he is scum? If so, can you explain why you think that, can you explain why you think his various attacks and questions and ect makes more sense coming from ML-scum then from ML-town? Let's pretend that you haven't mentioned him yet this game and start over from the beginning; I really want to understand how you interpret his various posts as scum tells here, mostly because I'm trying to understand you.

I really don't accept that just posting a lot is a scum tell; do you have any problems with the specific content of his posts, or do you just not like the format of them (the format being stuff like their length, their frequency, frequent double or triple posts, ect)? Go back to the beginning and really break it down for me, if you would.

[BBmolla]

1. Refusal to scum-hunt.
2. Active lurking.
3. Voting on policy reasons after explicitly saying he was waiting for a valid wagon

What I really want is to see you shut your annoying mouth. That's what I want.

I know you feel entitled to lead the town to a marvelous victory

because you are so full of yourself you can't possibly imagine yourself not being right, but you might want to tone it a bit. Just for the sake of your head, I worry about your health.

Er.

Does this bug anyone else?

Otolio, do you think MoI is town or scum?

I was going to post saying this bandwagon on Otolio is wierd, but with the bolded statement I might just join it.

[Yosarian2]

@MoI

You unvote me and I'll invest more time into this game.[/list].

fos:Otolia

I know MoI can be annoying, but the last couple of Otolia posts do not sound town-motivated at all.

[Oversoul]

Ok. I am sheeping MoI here because I haven't really read the thread yet. >_> The extent of my reading is isoing MoI, Ludi, and Otolia so please bear with me.

@MoI

: There is nothing I want to answer to you right now. If I continue to argue the way I am doing it right now, I'm going to end up insulting you and that won't help anyone. You basically force me to engaged in a childish pride contest by screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post. I gave it to you and you will feel dumb for five minutes in almost every possible ending of this contest and you are going to move on afterwards. I suggest you tone down the witch hunting and start your motivation analyzing tool on why you I face you that stubbornly and we can both move on untouched.

Your choice.

Here is what we are going to do :

• You stop screaming 'MORE OTOLIA VOTES PLEASE !!!!!' every post and I'll answer every questions you and anyone ask me.
  
• You unvote me and I'll invest more time into this game.

PS : I fear this might be interpreted as scum trying to negotiate but at this point, it's better than heading in the wall.

Your list of things to do is counter intuitive, you know that right?

Why should we move pressure off of you? The entire point of voting someone is to put pressure on them to gain information about a claim, reads, or interactions with other players. Your promise to become active after we stop voting you is easily broken and quite frankly I do not trust you to honor your promise.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Otolia

I pretty much agree with MoI's case against Otolia (yes blatant sheeping).

After isoing Ludi, it looks like it his town play (read Semiopen Sexy Sedilla if you want Town Ludi, BlazBlue if you want scum Ludi). I have another game that is still ongoing where there are two scum factions and Ludi is much more active with larger posts and a hard scumhunting to make himself look town. Ludi here seems to be trying to get information to use for scumhunting later. So Town read on Ludi. And MoI. And Yosarian.

[Magua]

Do not discuss ongoing games.

Not even if you're dead in them. Not even if you don't mention them by name. Just don't do it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 4pm EST until Monday AM for my usual weekend family duties

--

Does this bug anyone else?

Otolio, do you think MoI is town or scum?

I was going to post saying this bandwagon on Otolio is wierd, but with the bolded statement I might just join it.

Actually given the set-up and that we have two separate Mafia factions I’m not sure why bugs you. There is no way Otolia can absolutely know I am Town aligned (just not whatever his faction is aligned).

So what’s stopping you from voting him? Looking to see which way the wind blows?

--

I don't think I have. Why, do you have meta on her?

Well, I’d say yes … on gut feel I don’t see this as BabySpice-Scum. She chose to come out swinging at both Magister and yourself. Not exactly what you would call soft targets.

When I have seen her as scum (Stars Aligned 3, Atomic Mafia, That Bastard Game I Don’t Talk About) she spends much less time attacking targets and making soft statement in the early game (and sometimes Day into it, or as long as she is allowed to lurk). She almost universally avoids what I call Hard Targets (experienced scummers with reputations) unless they are under fire from other strong scummers. Does a good share of buddying.

Convexly when I see her as Town (Battle for Olympus) she is more willing to actively spread her vote around and is willing to call out players who attack her actively.

In fact her position that you are misrepping her here is very reminicant of a similar accusation (incorrect, mind you) she made against me in Battle for Olympus.

So in the end I don’t see this as scum BabySpice. It’s possible she’s changed her stripes but until I see something that sets my scum-dar abuzz she’s in the Townish pool for me.

--

@MoI- David is still brooding over the act of placing a simple vote. What does that say to you?

I'm not feeling the Otolia as scum thing either. Scum doesn't walk in and stick their [REDACTED] into a blender to start the game.
If you're voting him for annoyingness, then fine. But in all cases, lynching scum is preferred.

It says to me David is hesitant to actually try to push a case on me for fear of the response. It’s one of the reasons I am leaning scum on him.

Um Otolia didn’t stroll in an stick his BLANK in a blender intentionally. It just got put there when I picked up on his scummy play.

--

@MoI : So be it.

I proposed what I felt was a reasonable agreement that could eventually be discussed, and instead of trying to push further your case and trying to corner me (considering that from your PoV I'm scum), you showed self-confidence and refused the challenge.

Though it's entirely my responsibility if I am in the current situation, not showing comprehension and willingness to discuss calmly is your mistake.

I’m not sure exactly how the bolded makes any sense. I’ve clearly indicated that I’m going to continue pushing you as a scum suspect and your ‘plan’ didn’t provide any avenues for that in the first place.

As to calm discussion – I’m completely calm. You are the one talking about being angry and throwing insults. I think you are projecting your rage and emotions on to me as a defensive tactic.

[Yosarian2]

Well, I’d say yes … on gut feel I don’t see this as BabySpice-Scum. She chose to come out swinging at both Magister and yourself. Not exactly what you would call soft targets.

When I have seen her as scum (Stars Aligned 3, Atomic Mafia, That Bastard Game I Don’t Talk About) she spends much less time attacking targets and making soft statement in the early game (and sometimes Day into it, or as long as she is allowed to lurk). She almost universally avoids what I call Hard Targets (experienced scummers with reputations) unless they are under fire from other strong scummers. Does a good share of buddying.

Convexly when I see her as Town (Battle for Olympus) she is more willing to actively spread her vote around and is willing to call out players who attack her actively.

In fact her position that you are misrepping her here is very reminicant of a similar accusation (incorrect, mind you) she made against me in Battle for Olympus.

Interesting.

I will say that I don't really think she "came out swinging against me and ML"; she only attacked ML after someone else did, mirroring part of his post basically word for word, and has only attacked me in vauge OMGUSy ways, never really making a case for me to be scum, seems more like she was using attacks against me to try to get me to stop attacking her.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear her response to my previous post. Hopefully she gives me something to work with here.

[DarthYoshi]

In the mean time, I inform you that I usually don't claim D1.

I know from experience with you that this is crap.

Unvote. Vote: Otolia.

TBH, I'm not sure I find other parts of Otolia's behavior to be that scummy for him simply because based on my experience with him, this is how he is--he makes it personal and massively appeals to emotion rather than being useful to the town. It was this line that tipped the scale for me.

FTR, I still think TheJakalope is scum too. But Otolia can go first.

@Yos: Why exactly is what MoI said about BS interesting? And, why did you FOS instead of vote Otolia?

Does this bug anyone else?

Yes. But like I said, it's par for the course--in my experience, Otolia basically behaves like an ass in games. He's gotten blacklisted by CHESSKID of all people.

That being said, why do you find it scummy that he said that, as opposed to just annoying?

Baby Spice seems town to me, despite the large wagon forming around her. Her style is pro-town even though her comments aren't useful.

zmuffin is leaning scum. I would lean town, but with him it seems that he's whatever he dosen't seem to be.

Magna is very accusational, and is probably anti-town.

Ludi seems like scum. (yep, I said it. I saw a few other games where the person contributing the most had the most to hide.)

Whisper is an intelligent player and IDC whether she's town or not, we are NOT lynching her unless she gives off very scummy vibes.

This is a terrible post, for several reasons.

First, what about BS's style is pro-town to you? And, how can "style" (whatever that is) outweigh content and substance for you when getting a townread?

Second, please explain your Muffin read to me in terms that aren't WIFOM, because I honestly think he's null-leaning-town if anything.

Third, how does being accusational make MoI anti-town? Accusations fish out scum. Unless you're saying MoI is being fake, and if so, what specifically rings as inauthentic to you?

Fourth, about whisper...WTF? There are lots of smart players here, should we not lynch any of them unless they jump up and down and scream "I R SCUM"?

FOS: sageamagoo

Current suspect list in order of scumminess:
Otolia
TheJakalope
sageamagoo
And I guess BS, but I don't care as vehemently about lynching her as anyone else on this list.

[Yosarian2]

@Yos: Why exactly is what MoI said about BS interesting? And, why did you FOS instead of vote Otolia?

I'm not going to unvote BS until I get a better read on her. If she gives me a reason to think she might be town I might consider moving my vote. She hasn't, yet.

Also, I want to hear more from Otolia before I make up my mind about him. I really, really hate the series of posts he made today, there's so many different things wrong with them, but I didn't have a problem with his earlier posting; right now, I'm not sure if the terrible posts he made today were just an emotional overreaction, or if they were scum cracking under pressure.