Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

@jakalope,

I feel at least one or two of the votes on me are antitown..

Elaborate with something other than, "just because..."



BS is probably town. Otolia is probably town.

Oh, god. That BS wagon

Baby Spice (6): whispersilk, Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith, StefanB, Bogre

I don't have a single town read on it.


@moi,

Please explain to me exactly why Otolia doesn't need votes? How does

1. Refusal to scum-hunt.
2. Active lurking.
3. Voting on policy reasons after explicitly saying he was waiting for a valid wagon

come from Town?

*shrug*

Explain why you think he'd be this blatant about it if he was scum.

Yes, I am saying he's too scummy to be scum. And this sort of stubborn, dickheaded Otolia is something I think is more likely to come from him as town.

That said, he should stop doing this and start playing, but I don't think he's scum.

zmuffin is leaning scum. I would lean town, but with him it seems that he's whatever he dosen't seem to be.

This actually made me lol.

I'm not feeling the Otolia as scum thing either. Scum doesn't walk in and stick their [REDACTED] into a blender to start the game.

This. Completely this. Add on to this it's Otolia.

I was going to post saying this bandwagon on Otolio is wierd, but with the bolded statement I might just join it.

Are you suggesting Otolia knows MoI is town in a game with two scum factions and an unknown amount of other anti-town roles?

I understood Otolia's point completely here. It's not a scum tell or anything.



Anyway, my vote on whisper going nowhere fast.

unvote

VOTE: IceGuy

[Yosarian2]

This was kind of an odd post. Can someone who's played with him before tell me if this:

BS is probably town. Otolia is probably town.

Oh, god. That BS wagon

Baby Spice (6): whispersilk, Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith, StefanB, Bogre

I don't have a single town read on it.

is normal meta for this guy?

(Or, to put it another way. Do you know z muffin man? Z muffin man? Z muffin man?)

[TheJakalope]

@muffin, I elaborated with my vote on Ethereal.

[zMuffinMan]

@yos,

Odd how?

@jakalope,

No, you didn't. It looked like you arbitrarily saying you thought one or two of the votes on you were anti-town, just because... And then you went and did an ISO of Ethereal.

Explain why you thought one or two of the votes on you were antitown and what happened to the "or two" part of this?

[Yosarian2]

@yos,

Odd how?

In four lines, you called the top two suspects "probably" town, and you implied that the entire baby spice wagon is scum driven without really explaining why, other then listing all 6 people on the wagon and saying that "you don't have a single town read" in that group.

I can understand thinking that Otolia might be town, although I hate the line "too scummy to be scum", I've seen that kind of thinking bite the town on the ass too many times. I don't really at all get your thinking about baby spice or her wagon, though, and the fairly nonchalant way you basically just said that almost everyone else in the game is wrong and probably scum seems kind of bizzare and over the top.

[Baby Spice]

Yos.
I'll get to the other bits when I get back to a laptop (ie: can quote easily) but for the posting thing.

Spamming hides things. It makes it hard to find particular points or things a person has said. Especially in late/long games. It leads to people, well town, skimming and missing important clues.

Spamming is not necesarily just fluff posting, it's also making so many small posts that really should be fewer longer posts that it makes it hard to follow the game or keep things in context ie: what post answers what.

Basically it was looking like he was trying to hide things in outright overposting. There's also the tendency for the lowest posters to contain more scum than the higher posters. Posting one line then making a second one line post a minute later looks like he was trying to stay out of that zone. Ok in this case with so many posts it might be different, but then again the short, rapid posts have stopped too. Ludi's post percentage is down too.

Unvote

MoI: The only reason I can think of not to vote Otalia right now is the "Too scum for scum"/"dumb town" thing. That and maybe this:

Otalia: What would you consider a serious wagon?

[zMuffinMan]

you called the top two suspects "probably" town

Yes.

and you implied that the entire baby spice wagon is scum driven

No.

without really explaining why, other then listing all 6 people on the wagon and saying that "you don't have a single town read" in that group.

Yes.

I hate the line "too scummy to be scum", I've seen that kind of thinking bite the town on the ass too many times.

I rarely employ this logic, except when I think it applies to someone who is town. In this case, I do.

I don't really at all get your thinking about baby spice or her wagon, though, and the fairly nonchalant way you basically just said that almost everyone else in the game is wrong and probably scum seems kind of bizzare and over the top.

No, I didn't.

First, you're assuming that people who aren't town reads of mine are scum reads. If they were scum reads, I'd say "holy crap there's so much scum on that wagon" or something along those lines. That wagon simply has no town reads of mine on it and I didn't even realise who was on the Baby Spice wagon until I saw the votecount on the previous page. First thought that ran through my head was "wow, I don't have any town reads on that wagon, something is up".

Secondly, I do think almost everyone in this game is currently wrong (or scum). What of it? Interestingly, about half my town reads have chosen not to jump on either of those wagons, and it's mostly my weaker town reads on Otolia right now, so that reassures me somewhat.

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.6

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Otolia (6): MagnaofIllusion, StefanB, sorgster, Ghostlin, Oversoul, DarthYoshi
Baby Spice (5): whispersilk, Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith, Bogre
TheJakalope (2): Dry-fit, EtherealCookie
MagnaofIllusion (2): Magister Ludi, Otolia
IceGuy (2): Maxous, zMuffinMan
David Xanatos (1): PeregrineV
Global Warming (1): IceGuy
zMuffinMan (1): BBmolla
EtherealCookie (1): TheJakalope

Not voting (4): sageamagoo, David Xanatos, Global Warming, Baby Spice

V/LA: Alabaska J (10/1), MagnaofIllusion (10/3)

Deadline is October 10th, 2011, at 11:00am EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2011-10-10 11:00:00)

[IceGuy]

So, let's do some vote analysis:

Players who jumped onto the Baby Spice wagon without justification: Alabaska, GW, Wraith, StefanB and Bogre

Players who jumped onto the Otolia wagon without justification: StefanB, sorgster, Ghostlin

The "opportunistic scum" award of this game goes to StefanB.

VOTE: StefanB

[StefanB]

Okay Iceguy,
Otalia voted for someone who she she never stated is scum, just that she doesn't like him. That is at last an antitownreason to vote. I stated this in the same post I voted her. I think that is a reason. When I voted Otalia it wasn't a wagon.
I also think there is justification for my Baby Spice vote in post 144 and 146.

I have not been as usful as I like that's right. But perhaps that helps:

Unvote

Vote: Sageamagoo

, the defence of Whisper came of to strong and unecasary, makes me think scumpartners.

Zmuffin: While I agree, that the company on BabySpice doesn't look that good, the notownread on Yos would be interesting. He seems to be quite townnish, okay a player of his experience can perhaps fake that. If you tell me to name people who I have at last a mild townread on, he would be on that list. Have you got somethink that makes you think he is suspicious?
Can you tell me were that strange townreads (imho) of DavidX, Sorgster and Oversoul come from.
Not calling Sorgster and/or Oversoul sure scumreads, but Oversoul is imho not long enough in the game to get a townread on him and Sorgster I don't see it.
The DavidX townread is imho just bizare.

[zMuffinMan]

He hasn't done anything that warrants a town read

[zMuffinMan]

Oh, right, if it wasn't obvious I skipped over most of your post and just read the yos part.

Can you tell me were that strange townreads (imho) of DavidX, Sorgster and Oversoul come from

DavidX is town based on the early self-vote and his reaction to the reactions to it. He needs to put a vote down and do stuff but yeah, he's still town.

sorgster town read is, admittedly, my weakest. It's mostly gut based on his suspicion of Ludi and justification for this. I have limited experience with sorgster, but he looks town here.

oversoul's another of my weaker town reads, it's mostly gut based on past experience with him. Actually, looking back over him, I'm more null on Oversoul. He needs to do something other than mindlessly sheeping.

[zMuffinMan]

Players who jumped onto the Baby Spice wagon without justification: Alabaska, GW, Wraith, StefanB and Bogre

Players who jumped onto the Otolia wagon without justification: StefanB, sorgster, Ghostlin

The "opportunistic scum" award of this game goes to StefanB.

Right...

So what if BabySpice and Otolia are scum? Where is the opportunism here?

[Global Warming]

Sorry, was busy for a few days.
The Otolia wagon is all right, but it is a bit easy. Otolia is severely anti-town and therefore a likely mislynch for scum.
Baby Spice is more town in his last few posts. (Though we are still debating a bit on this read)
Sorgster still is scum with his easy hops and last few easy Otolia attacks.
Dry-Fit isn't much better either. Extremely low profile and bad attacks.
However, I want every one (besides Maxous and MuffinMan) to read IceGuy a bit closer.

His first posts are all fluff.
At post #219 every thing he says is mentioned already. (the quote of DY he had answered himself before). Because of that, that post is completely ignored. (aside from the quote he had from DY on which the answer was "I don't know if scum or town tell)
Then in his last post, he totally ignores the possibility of one or both of them being scum and just looks a lame reason to vote for someone.
Both of his votes (not counting his RVS vote) were extremely low on evidence and are easily skipped because of it.

IceGuy is scum doing as little as possible and flying under the radar as good as he can.

vote: IceGuy

[IceGuy]

So what if BabySpice and Otolia are scum? Where is the opportunism here?

They might be both scum on different teams?

His first posts are all fluff.

I don't see any fluff (unless you see RVS posting as such).

At post #219 every thing he says is mentioned already. (the quote of DY he had answered himself before). Because of that, that post is completely ignored. (aside from the quote he had from DY on which the answer was "I don't know if scum or town tell)

I was semi V/LA for most of the early game and had to catch up. I'm not going to analyze every word in every post to death; I'm going through the thread and trying to find interesting stuff. In a game with 24 players, it's not a surprise some other player said something similar regarding some of my observations.

Then in his last post, he totally ignores the possibility of one or both of them being scum

See my response to zMuffinMan. And see StefanB's answer which makes me confident I actually caught scum.

And yes, Baby Spice and/or Otolia may be scum. But I'm not convinced of the cases against them, and especially Baby Spice's later behavior doesn't suggest scum at all, and Otolia reads like he's legitimately angered by MoI's irritating behavior.

and just looks a lame reason to vote for someone.

IceGuy is scum doing as little as possible and flying under the radar as good as he can.

If I would be scum, I'd have been jumping on at least one of the Baby Spice/Otolia wagons. I fail to see why you're trying to paint me as scum for actual scum-hunting and at ignoring people who are just jumping on the easy wagon.

[Yosarian2]

zMuffinMan: Fair enough. I wasn't necessarily saying that I found that post of your especially scummy, just that it was weird, and I was hoping someone who had played with you before could tell me if that kind of over-the-top posting was normal for you as town. (I didn't just do it for the bad pun, really. )

[StefanB]

IceGuy: What was so bad about my response?
That I disproved your whole reaseaning for your vote or the fact that I promissed to be more helpful in the future, than I have in this game before?
Scumhunting would be more than a vote based on somethink that is not true. (Basicly the only think through is that I was on both waggons) and posting that you are right, without any argument.
So basicly there is the question if lazy town or scum.

[zMuffinMan]

They might be both scum on different teams?

OK, that's plausible, but it still doesn't explain why he's "opportunistic". A vote without "justification" isn't necessarily opportunistic scum, and your vote on Stefan is far more opportunistic than either of his votes.

If I would be scum, I'd have been jumping on at least one of the Baby Spice/Otolia wagons.

I fail to see why you're trying to paint me as scum for actual scum-hunting and at ignoring people who are just jumping on the easy wagon.

Right...

So as scum you would have made yourself even more obvious by jumping on an "easy wagon" instead of trying to appear like you're scum hunting?

Yeah, that sounds believable.

I didn't just do it for the bad pun, really.

Don't lie, I know that's the real reason you did it.

I still don't understand what you think was "over-the-top" about what I said.

Fixed quote tag.

[IceGuy]

OK, that's plausible, but it still doesn't explain why he's "opportunistic". A vote without "justification" isn't necessarily opportunistic scum, and your vote on Stefan is far more opportunistic than either of his votes.

Looking who's currently garnering the most heat and voting him is opportunistic. Using voting patterns to identify someone who's doing this isn't.

So as scum you would have made yourself even more obvious by jumping on an "easy wagon" instead of trying to appear like you're scum hunting?

Yeah, that sounds believable.

No, I'd try to appear to scum-hunt and vote the easy wagon nevertheless.

IceGuy: What was so bad about my response?
That I disproved your whole reaseaning for your vote or the fact that I promissed to be more helpful in the future, than I have in this game before?

What was bad about your response that you tried to justify your scumreads on Baby Spice and especially Otolia, and proceeded to change your vote to sageamagoo. So is your Otolia read justified (why did you change your vote, then?) or not (why were you voting him, then?)

Scumhunting would be more than a vote based on somethink that is not true. (Basicly the only think through is that I was on both waggons) and posting that you are right, without any argument.

Can you rephrase that? I seriously don't have a clue what you're trying to say here.

[zMuffinMan]

[StefanB]

Must resist to not vote Iceguy right now:

So let my get this straight: You said I voted 2 people without a reason, I point out that I gave reason.
The Otaliawaggon doesn't need me it's big enough. Otalia is at best case at the moment playing antitown good vote. There isn't only one scum.
I had my suspicion on Sage for some time, before that vote.
Okay to paraphrase it (mind you the former version was nice): Your vote on me is based on a lye and in the moment you try to justifie it by fabricating thinks.
That's not honest scumhunting, so yes I would like to keep my vote on Sage a little longer, because there is some strange whiteknighting going on, but you are making that very difficult.

[TheJakalope]

Muffin is leaning town.

IceGuy is scum.

VOTE: IceGuy

Still strongly suspicious of EtherealCookie.

[IceGuy]

Must resist to not vote Iceguy right now:

Feel free to do it. Makes you even scummier.

So let my get this straight: You said I voted 2 people without a reason, I point out that I gave reason.
The Otaliawaggon doesn't need me it's big enough. Otalia is at best case at the moment playing antitown good vote. There isn't only one scum.

So let me rephrase that:

You claim your vote on Otolia was justified, and he is scum. But sage is also scum, and when I called you out on voting Otolia you noticed sage is also scummy and should get your vote because the Otolia wagon is big enough. Baby Spice is also scum. Correct?

I had my suspicion on Sage for some time, before that vote.

He only posted once in the entire thread. Why didn't you express your suspicions before I called you scummy?

That's not honest scumhunting, so yes I would like to keep my vote on Sage a little longer, because there is some strange whiteknighting going on, but you are making that very difficult.

As I said: feel free to move your vote on me. That would be the third opportunistic vote, with bonus OMGUS.

zMuffinMan and TheJakalope noted for opportunistic jump on my wagon without any justification.

Fixed quote tag.

[TheJakalope]

Muffin has had plenty of explanation, and it was quite enough for me.

[sorgster]

I find it interesting that othia hasn't defended himself and is getting ignored now.