Open 326: Pick Your Poison (Ende des Speils!)

[thunderwielder]

EBWODP
@Tragedy's post above mine.
I guess I can see where you're coming from. In a way, this is a kind of buddying, yes? Buddying with a dead player (who's confirmed town) to seem more town? Is that what you're hinting at?

[Cephrir]

Given recent revelations, I'd say Mr. Trow is my top suspect, followed by Tragedy. I'll need to ISO everyone else to come up with the third, but with any luck today and tomorrow will give us some information, and if we're really lucky Quilford might catch them for us =P

[Hoppster]

Hoppster, any new leads? How do you feel about everyone right now?

no new leads

feeling pretty terrible about everybody in general

should probably look through people's ISOs

I'll get back to you on that (pinky swear)

[MrTrow]

(weekend at parents` for birthdays, more on monday(hopefully))

@Quilford: no counter from me.

With Thor flipping town, I think Mr. Trow and Tragedy almost have to be scum.

How?

RoboThor because he's alive (yes, being deadly serious here).

RoboThor was obvtown, though.

Was he?

Mr. Trow's "scumslip" is really not a scumslip at all - rather, HE is pointing out DELTAWAVE'S scumslip.

true. (point was actually IN THE SAME LINE)

Mr. Trow, since he isn't the roleblocker, could have made a slip yesterday.

How are you still keeping this up?
How do you know i`m not the roleblocker unless you`ve noticed the point (i attacked delta for 'assuming/knowing there was no roleblocker', if not this what gave you the 'he isn`t the roleblocker')

[Quilford]

I don't think I roleblocked Trow whilst he performed the kill.

more likely: Scum and doc target RoboThor N1, Doc killed N2, RoboThor killed without worry N3

[thunderwielder]

How are you still keeping this up?
How do you know i`m not the roleblocker unless you`ve noticed the point (i attacked delta for 'assuming/knowing there was no roleblocker', if not this what gave you the 'he isn`t the roleblocker')

Keeping what up? I'm confused by this question.
I assumed Delta made the slip yesterday -- I assumed wrong.
The point was brought up yesterday that perhaps YOU slipped up. Since the Delta slip was actually not a slip, the inverse of Delta's slip, which he purposed was your slip, must hold some legitimacy.
How do I know you're not the roleblocker? Is this a serious question? Are you going to claim roleblocker right now? Then you're not the roleblocker...

[thunderwielder]

EBWODP
@Quilford--okay, so you don't think you performed the roleblock, but is Trow still on your scummy list?

I would like everyone's opinions on Mr. Trow, please and thank you.
And, yes, there is a method to my madness.

[Tragedy]

I'm still believin' that Amrun's my top scum suspect.

ISO #122 tries to make herself look like a dumb townie for that moment.
ISO #121 is too dramatic, what kind of a reaction from town is

that

?

Ah, yes. I remember that time when I was scum in Quack Multiball Mafia.
I think I played terrible at that especially when I have to get lynched Day 3, but my scumbuddy (Lane) looked pretty much newbie town.

Amrun town doesn't get pissy pissy over stupidity. Lame role is lame again.

[Hoppster]

I don't think I roleblocked Trow whilst he performed the kill.

more likely: Scum and doc target RoboThor N1, Doc killed N2, RoboThor killed without worry N3

this makes some sense.

I would like everyone's opinions on Mr. Trow, please and thank you.
And, yes, there is a method to my madness.

Mr Trow is kinda null overall for me.


I'm finding it easy to procrastinate with ISO's/cases etc. Somebody needs to make a

proper

case (or possibly collect several points into one post) so I feel bad about not making a case so I make a case so we can lynch scum so we can win.

[Cephrir]

With Thor flipping town, I think Mr. Trow and Tragedy almost have to be scum.

How?

I'm having trouble imagining another scenario. I mean, it's possible that we're all totally off base, but I don't really think so.

I guess the order of nightkills does sort of suggest what Quilford is saying... The fact that I'm mentally waffling about this is suggesting to me that I need to reread/ISO everyone, or at least almost everyone. I don't really want to wade through any more walls for this game than I already have, never mind walls I've already read.

[Cephrir]

So I reviewed some ISOs. I refuse to reread thunderwielder, for the moment I'm going to trust my earlier thoughts on him- even procrastinating homework can't motivate me to read those walls again. I've probably said a lot of this already, but I need to organize my thoughts and I may as well let everyone see them.

~Relatively brief thoughts~

Amrun

- Catch-up vote lane post is still really good, goes against the grain of the town at the moment, and she rides it all the way to an eventual lynch knowing she is a driving force behind it and gloats after the lynch. As much as I don't think the case was all that great, scum just don't do this. Also, he doesn't constantly harp on the lane case and talks about other subjects while leaving her vote on lane, which I like for some reason.

The only thing I disliked before was the reaction to the glowball wagon but it's not all that bad, and I'm a little biased, I think, against anyone who figured out glowball was town because theoretical-day-one-me was lynching the ever-loving shit out of her.

Around this point Amrun admits lane did something town, another example of not tunneling. And even if Amrun flipped mafia I would still believe that hammer was an accident. So basically this might now be my strongest town read, which is a reason I dislike Tragedy so much- I just don't see how anyone could get scummy intent from these posts without looking really, really hard.

Hopster

- Posts like 295 strike me as town. Posts like 331 ('give me more town points') do not. I have a note about frustration with glowball being town, but I don't actually think so now that I'm typing.

I don't see scum building a case on mothrax when it is already clear that mothrax or glowball (both town) is getting lynched (VC at this point- glowball 5, mothrax 4, and glowball is imploding). It's theoretically possible scum-Hopp wants to keep glowball because she was easy lynchbait and refusing to scumhunt, I suppose.

He starts tunneling really hard on mothrax and never shuts up about it. I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I'd be a hypocrite if I read into it because I have a tendency to do this as either alignment. Or, at least, I used to, but I haven't been this game. Go figure. Anyway, this part does read like town believing really hard they've caught scum to me.

Half these day two/three posts read like drunkposting. I guess that's frustration? Weird. Most recent posts = town points, so I would overall still call this a pretty weak town read.

Trow

- The first thing that comes to mind is 'I'm not sure if Trow has said a single original thing this game, and if he has it wasn't very memorable'. This may not be true, but that's how I feel about it right now. He has a weird, extremely reactive playstyle that bugs me. I may do some meta at some point.

The Maruchan 'case' is pretty lame. I know I'm biased but it doesn't even seem like he's trying that hard. Reads post sound slike exactly what everyone else is saying at the time. Admittedly there was ample reason to believe in and be convinced by the town's overall opinion, but he's just not adding anything useful. Possibly the first interesting thing he says is that, out of nowhere and with little backup, he says he has a town read on Tragedy. I don't see it in the last few posts and I'm in the preview window so the answer might be obvious, but

@Trow- do you still think Tragedy is town?

The elaborated case on Maruchan practically sounds like a case for Maruchan being town, and is more summary than content. The thrown-n summary makes him tough to read. The only redeeming feature for me of Trow and Tragedy right now is that they aren't all over each other. Are they scumbuddies who think they can somehow get someone else lynched today for the win? Or have they not figured out yet that they need to bus each other? Or are the playing to exactly the sort of WIFOM argument I'm invoking right now? Or of course, maybe only one is scum, which is a possibility that scares me.

Tragedy

- Thinks Amrun's town reads are 'buddying' as his first comment? This makes it seem like he knows he's building up to an Amrun vote from the start of post 819. This is not the way town would present their thoughts. One comment implies he wants to lynch mothrax, and some of his Amrun case seems to be assuming mothrax is her buddy. Apparently Amrun not wanting to lynch NS is buddying, lol. The last few points here are basically complete BS.

Hoppster summary- Tragedy says he's stating the obvious even tough he isn't. Wait, mothrax is town now? A lot of these points seem kinda random to me, basically just flinging around vague ideas with the assumption that the poster in question is probably scum. She says something is town approximately once. Remarks like 'Hmmmm.' bother me. I don't have much to say about Tragedy except that most of her points suck.

The one point in her favor is that she's sticking to her supposed Amrun scumread. Why would scum attack such a hard target? I have a counterpoint. It's pretty clear that Tragedy hadn't read the thread when she made her first few posts, and didn't yet know the general consensus was that Amrun is town. After making the blind case and voting Amrun, she basically has to stick to her suspicions, otherwise I would be even more all about lynching her.

So. I still think Trow may have been RBed, I think it could explain Auckmid's failure to ever catch up, and even if this wasn't the case, I can see him as scum. The theoretical Tragedy/Trow scumteam is a bit odd. I don't know if their interactions fit with this. But I'm sure at least one of them is scum. Tragedy reclaims the award of top suspect after my little reread, I dislike her day 3 posts even more the second time. I don't want to get too focused on these two, but it's going to take a serious case full of things I never noticed to get me to vote anyone else.

[MrTrow]

@Thunder: one translation of my last post coming right up:

How are you still keeping this up?

The case of 'my slip' is as follows:
- i point out delta assumes the roleblock will fail, conclude this may mean he knows there is no roleblocker
- then Quilford comes in and quotes the 'roleblock will fail' portion and concludes i`m talking about: the roleblocker will block the wrong person (how would i know there is a roleblocker)
- your #1013 notes this point and shelfs it due to the larger delta-case
- hoppster shows up and clears up quilford`s misread.
- after delta is lynched, you take this slip back from the shelf (even though the point is resolved)
in other words: why do you consider 'my slip' a valid point AFTER hoppster has already shattered the point

How do you know i`m not the roleblocker unless you`ve noticed the point?

There was (as far as i recall) only one point at which i said anything that would lead to the logical conclusion that i`m not a roleblocker prior to

Mr. Trow, since he isn't the roleblocker, could have made a slip yesterday.

Which was my conclusion that Delta 'knew' we didn`t have a roleblocker.

So either you have deduced i`m not the roleblocker by other means (if so please show me, using things prior to 1027 of course)
or you have read my motivation for the delta-slip argument and thus know the base for 'my slip' is incorrect. (in which case, why are you using it?)


@Cephrir:
Your 'bias' is indeed understandable.
The (too) easily forgotten point, maru came up with reasoning against the lane-case (claiming these to be unrelated),
yet being willing to hammer someone who according to the same logic could have been the doc (same lane) is not.

To answer your question regarding Tragedy: Yes, the auckmid read + catchup-speed still hint to no scum-qt or no scum-intent, i will go into my (after dinner) reread with tragedy as more likely to be town

tl;dr;

- thunder`s continuation of 'my scumslip'-argument makes no sense
- maru`s willingness to hammer someone who according to his own logic could be the doc got forgotten way too easy
- i still believe tragedy to be likely town (due to her auckmid read)
- i`ll reread tonight

[thunderwielder]

Mr. Trow, I'd like to ask you a flat out question (since you seem not be reading the thread): are you the roleblocker? Or are you the cop? Are you one of these two roles, or are you vanilla townie? Because if you're one of the two roles, then all suspicion will fall from you and we can get along catching the scum, right?

Yeah, my argument does make sense, and I'll answer it very simply after you answer this question.

[thunderwielder]

EBWODP
(fack, I'm sorry for doing this constantly)

I like Cephrir's post. It also lends more townie-ish points to his slot, since scum wouldn't feel the need to start to move things along. Then again, he might be bussing his two partners, and hoping to make his way to the end. I need to re-read Maruchan. I need to re-read everyone, actually. I've been really busy as of late, hence my lack of usual walls, haha.

[thunderwielder]

Sorry for the Triple Post

To answer your question regarding Tragedy: Yes, the auckmid read + catchup-speed still hint to no scum-qt or no scum-intent, i will go into my (after dinner) reread with tragedy as more likely to be town

Not necessarily. It only means she didn't pay attention to who she was replacing. I think it has no bearing on alignment, only we can assume that if Tragedy is scum, she either intended to bus scumbuddy Amrun right from the gate (silly, in my opinion), or she didn't know who she was replacing and wanted to throw in a vote as soon as she could.

[Cephrir]

@Cephrir:
Your 'bias' is indeed understandable.
The (too) easily forgotten point, maru came up with reasoning against the lane-case (claiming these to be unrelated),
yet being willing to hammer someone who according to the same logic could have been the doc (same lane) is not.

Townies can get frustrated and bored, especially bad townies like Maruchan. It's also possible he knew lane was going to be lynched anyway, as I think he was starting to blow up at that point.

I've been really busy as of late, hence my lack of usual walls, haha.

No, it's okay! I like you better this way!

Also, I am very interested in seeing Trow's answer to that question.

[Hoppster]

sooo now I have the motivation to post but weirdly no longer have the time.

I appreciate it's suspiciously convenient... but yeah. Fuck you, random stranger on the internet, if you're really that cynical.

@ Mod: When is deadline?

I'll think about replacing out if game activity continues to fail and I continue to be busy because I'm not exactly helping/contributing at this point and it seems to be hurting the game somewhat - we don't seem to be getting anywhere. It'd be nice if more people could be super-useful like Cephrir (yes I'm being a filthy hypocrite - sue me) and go through ISOs so I don't have to. *hint hint*

[Xalxe]

@ Mod: When is deadline?

I will set it from this post. So, (7/2) + 7=3.5 +7=10.5 days from this post (Oct 14, 4:54 AM EST)

Also, there are still no votes out yet.

ALSO also I'm going to massprod. Nobody's getting penalized, it's just a "Wake Up and Play, Dammit!" mechanism.

[Cephrir]

Massprods don't have to be quite that mass, ya know. I posted two hours ago.

[Xalxe]

Massprods don't have to be quite that mass, ya know. I posted two hours ago.

Quiet you, massprod means you ALL get the pointy end.

[Tragedy]

To answer your question regarding Tragedy: Yes, the auckmid read + catchup-speed still hint to no scum-qt or no scum-intent, i will go into my (after dinner) reread with tragedy as more likely to be town

Not necessarily. It only means she didn't pay attention to who she was replacing. I think it has no bearing on alignment, only we can assume that if Tragedy is scum, she either intended to bus scumbuddy Amrun right from the gate (silly, in my opinion), or she didn't know who she was replacing and wanted to throw in a vote as soon as she could.

Scum would go check up Scum QT first, instead of the game. Just saying.
So making it sound like Town VS Scum now?
If me and Amrun were of the same scum alignment, I would have backed off of her while ago.
Then Amrun would be probably drilling the fuck out of me right now for a crazy lynch on me.
So pretty much makes it Town VS Scum or Fail Town VS Town.

[Quilford]

Given recent revelations, I'd say Mr. Trow is my top suspect

Cephrir gets scum points for sounding amazingly opportunistic here.

[Amrun]

Was he?

Yes, he freaking was, from day 1, and that never changed.


Cephrir is town town town.

Tragedy... I'm wavering on. I can totally see scum motivation there - really, really can - scum worried about consistency, etc, but at the same time, something in my gut is twinging in the opposite direction.

I see nothing of Mr Trow to convince me he's not scum. Still will see blood there.

Hoppster is being useless and that's weird for him.

Quilford, why do you think you didn't block Trow successfully? Not really following.

[Quilford]

It's more likely doctor protected RoboThor Night 1 from the kill, doctor was killed Night 2 and then scum killed RoboThor without worry Night 3.

[Amrun]

But couldn't they kill anyone with worry? Why RoboThor?

Why couldn't your block have been successful AND doc protect robo?

In all likelihood, this isn't actually important since you're conftown. It just stood out.