Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[ace5993]

Ah, ok.

In that case, I think that Vi should make a post in the G_N_R QT saying exactly what she doesn't like about him there - it seems important to her case on him. If G_N_R doesn't relay it, we lynch him.

It would compromise the situation.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Locke Lamora has been prodded.

[Fishythefish]

I don't know what you mean by that. It wouldn't have to involve your neighbourhood at all.

[saulres]

So. We now think that GNR is a Neighbor with Vi, and Ace neighbored Vi last night giving her two neighborhoods. Do I have that right?

Ace, why do you assume that Vi's "other" neighborhood is a neighborhood at all? Couldn't it be a scum QT and she's setting herself up through you to look town?

There's an easy way to check that, I guess.

Vote: GNR

. If he flips scum we've killed scum, if he flips town we've killed the "scum QT" theory and can start looking at why Vi's reads are so bad this game.

Further, the possibility certainly exists that Ace and Vi and GNR are all scum, and this is the story they've concocted. So Ace, tonight you need to pull someone else into your neighborhood, and they have to confirm tomorrow that they were there. Pull in someone you don't think will be NKed or the experiment is useless.

[4nxi3ty]

hmm this could potentialy change things. vi and riggs are neighbors at the start of the game and ace has a nighttime neighborizer ability, not sure if this adds up flavorwise. also interestingly this claim happens when vi is v/la.

i think it is a reasonable request for everyone to hold off on all wagons until both vi and riggs get a chance to respond.

[saulres]

I agree GNR should be able to say something.

But I think Vi pretty much preemptively responded. Her responses to me in 592 and 598 seem now to have indicated that she wanted me to wait until Ace posted with the info from the neighborhood.

Except -- when Ace first posted he voted for 4nxi3ty (can't fault him for that), and he didn't "come clean" until after Vi announced her V/LA...

Yeah. UNVOTE: . Waiting on this until Vi and GNR both post in response. (Will continue to look for scum though, time permitting.)

[saulres]

I do encourage everyone to read over this past interaction between SR and myself. I think it is quite telling and needs to be looked at beyond the rhetoric spit by either side.

Just did that as well as the rest of CC's ISO. CC seems to be quite calm, I don't know why sotty was going all nuts yesterday over him. I see nothing in CC's ISO which is clearly town or clearly scum. Nulltell at this point.

Spoiler: Rant about hydras (igonre if you want, except CC)

I'm rather -- distressed -- over the breaks a hydra gets that a solo player doesn't. In particular, "Oh, part of me feels that so-and-so is scum, but my other head disagrees." If a solo player said "I think that so-and-so is scum, but he could also be town" then that player is immediately criticized for not being committal (as 4nxi3ty did to me earlier in this thread). Where's the challenge of CC for that, 4nxi3ty? Oh, that's right, you can't because it's two people not one. I can't wait for the "I didn't agree with my other head on that vote but I didn't get back to the computer in time to change it."

Given that, I'd hoped that CC would have lived up to this:

We're one head and you're not going to hear any cognitive dissonance from us

But no:

Reading our QT and VP's post in thread I completely agree with him on most everything

except

Guy_Named_Riggs (will explain in a sec).

VP suggested that he thought GNR was just bad town but

I disagree

.

The next analyses I plan to do are on those who lynched SL yesterday. Most likely there's at least one (if not more) scum on that wagon. But I want to hear from Vi and GNR about Ace's reveal, first.

[ace5993]

I don't know what you mean by that. It wouldn't have to involve your neighbourhood at all.

Don't worry about it.

Ace, why do you assume that Vi's "other" neighborhood is a neighborhood at all? Couldn't it be a scum QT and she's setting herself up through you to look town?

This is possible as a scum gambit, however it fits their claim of Penn and Teller that they have a neighborhood. I see no reason to start thinking about fringe theories until there's good reason to.

There's an easy way to check that, I guess.

Vote: GNR

. If he flips scum we've killed scum, if he flips town we've killed the "scum QT" theory and can start looking at why Vi's reads are so bad this game.

We aren't going to just lynch GNR based on what Vi said, at least not until GNR makes a response.

Further, the possibility certainly exists that Ace and Vi and GNR are all scum, and this is the story they've concocted. So Ace, tonight you need to pull someone else into your neighborhood, and they have to confirm tomorrow that they were there. Pull in someone you don't think will be NKed or the experiment is useless.

THIS is bad. "Pull in someone you don't think will be NKed", aka someone scummy. Do you want to increase the chance of scum penetrating the neighborhood? Regardess, my ability is one-shot.

Except -- when Ace first posted he voted for 4nxi3ty (can't fault him for that), and he didn't "come clean" until after Vi announced her V/LA...

I wasn't convinced of Vi's case when we first started talking about it but now I'm seeing the pieces slide into place.

4nxi3ty - Explain your springlullaby comment. The case on you hasn't just evaporated based on the issue with Riggs.

[saulres]

We aren't going to just lynch GNR based on what Vi said

Unvote, Vote: Guy_Named_Riggs

Oh, I look

very

forward to seeing what Vi has to say.

[Vi]

Ah, ok.

In that case, I think that Vi should make a post in the G_N_R QT saying exactly what she doesn't like about him there - it seems important to her case on him. If G_N_R doesn't relay it, we lynch him.

*looks at post 645*

if he flips town we've killed the "scum QT" theory

and can start looking at why Vi's reads are so bad this game

.

Next I'd like to say how disappointed I am that SR didn't flip scum.

*piercing gaze*

vi and riggs are neighbors at the start of the game and ace has a nighttime neighborizer ability,

not sure if this adds up flavorwise

.

*puzzled look*


*nudges ace with elbow*

[ace5993]

We aren't going to just lynch GNR based on what Vi said,

at least not until GNR makes a response.

Unvote, Vote: Guy_Named_Riggs,

and I'm interested to hear his defense to this.

Nice misrep.

I'm still calling the team as Riggs + Fishy + mystery card with a knit cap poking out of the top, and at present I would not lynch outside that group Today. Fishy's attempt to score points in 649 is so bad I'm tempted to switch my vote.

This Neighborhood is separate from the Penn/Teller QT, and I've since jumped over to using this QT exclusively, to answer Riggs' objection about not knowing about this QT. Besides, ace is doing everything Riggs should be doing, plus he's online more frequently so he can more effectively communicate for me You're welcome to believe what you want about my/Riggs'/ace's alignments, but the roles are as claimed.

[saulres]

It's not a misrep. You said you want to hear his defense, at the same time voting for him. Then you said "we aren't going to lynch" him. But you left your vote on him. If you wanted to help ensure he's not lynched until he has a chance to talk, you'd have removed your vote, as I did.

Vi, don't glare at me. What I'm saying there if we lynch GNR, and he flips town, then that'd be two lynches led by you on townies, out of two. At the moment you're batting .500, and it would drop to .333 in that situation. So it'd be something for those who follow you around to think about.

Still waiting on the other end of that metal, BTW.

[Fishythefish]

@Vi: 645 is pretty general. Is G_N_R posting much in there? His ignoring your attempts to get him to do stuff sounds much like his in-thread play unless he's also active. And your secret scumtell is... secret.

[Junpei]

Vi, I'm confused as to why there are things which were said in your Penn Teller QT which you don't wish to disclose. My confusion stems from your, what seems to be, full transparency aside from the specifics of your suspicion on GNR, of whom you are pushing a lynch on. If he's getting lynched and you've claimed, why not tell us the whole story?

[Fishythefish]

And my attempt to "score points" in 649 is asking for clarification on a very vague case. You seem to find everything I post scummy, and you never respond to any of my responses.

[Fishythefish]

Actually... that post is rather unfair. You have quite often responded to my responses. More true is "you seem to find everything I post scummy, I don't really know why, and I'm finding it rather frustrating".

[Amrun]

Junpei, stop rolefishing.

[ace5993]

It's not a misrep. You said you want to hear his defense, at the same time voting for him. Then you said "we aren't going to lynch" him. But you left your vote on him. If you wanted to help ensure he's not lynched until he has a chance to talk, you'd have removed your vote, as I did.

He's at what, L-4? I'm inclined to believe Vi right now, and I'll vote for who I think is scum. Yes of course I'd like to hear his defense first, and to see if his account of the QT differs greatly with Vi's. He's not going to be quicklynched, nor is there any danger of that occuring.

[Vi]

Still waiting on the other end of that metal, BTW.

*begins predictable slapstick routine*


*points to 645*

Is G_N_R posting much in there? His ignoring your attempts to get him to do stuff sounds much like his in-thread play unless he's also active.

Riggs is playing one or two other games as well. There is ~content~. Cue surprise.

*nudges ace with elbow*

And my attempt to "score points" in 649 is asking for clarification on a very vague case.

In that case, I think that Vi should make a post in the G_N_R QT saying exactly what she doesn't like about him there - it seems important to her case on him.

Vi feels pretty strongly that we should lynch GNR:

I thought VP Baltar (Crab Canon)'s post was kind of odd, and then I looked back and saw that Riggs left something off of his copy/paste. Here's the first part of the post.

All right. Time for you to prove yourself.

---

I want you to out yourself as Penn Jilette in your next post and quote this entire post on my behalf, with no editions. You don't get to ask why and you don't get to object. This is, bar nothing, the most pro-Town thing you can do at this point. If you post anywhere on site and do not post this, I will treat it as a scum claim and act accordingly.

Let's just get everything cleared up, since I'd hate to see springlullaby walk free Today. (...)

So that should answer some questions - I didn't exactly give Riggs a choice but to come forward.

Riggs is on the chopping block because he has been completely useless inthread and a deer in the headlights in the QT. I've looked at some other games and quite frankly I can't justify a legitimate confused Town read on him in favor of a newbscum read.

Riggs is playing one or two other games as well. There is ~content~. Cue surprise.

There is actually one big thing in the QT that sets off alarms, aside from his continued ignorance of my constant pleas for him to say something, anything that looks like scumhunting. With that said, I'd like to keep that to myself for right now.

Actually... that post is rather unfair. You have quite often responded to my responses. More true is "you seem to find everything I post scummy, I don't really know why, and I'm finding it rather frustrating".

*plays world's tiniest violin*

*steps on Amrun's tail*

[Amrun]

ouch

[Fishythefish]

@Vi: you said there that GNR has been "a deer in the headlights" and ignored your pleas to say something. And that you had a secret scumtell on him. The first is pretty vague, the second depends a lot on the detail of the QT and the third doesn't mean anything unless you explain it. I think asking for more on that is totally reasonable (and I'm looking forward to ace giving us some of it).

[Vi]

(...)
you had a secret scumtell on him.
(...)
doesn't mean anything unless you explain it.

*puts hand to chest as if wounded*

and ignored your pleas to say something.

aside from his continued ignorance of my constant pleas for him to say something,

anything

that looks like scumhunting

.

*steps on Amrun's tail again*

[Fishythefish]

Yes, sorry - ignoring your pleas to scumhunt. Same applies - how much that matters really depends on the vibe in the QT.

[Amrun]

Why are we stepping on my tail? I don't get it.

[Vi]

Why are we stepping on my tail? I don't get it.

*points to large group of people playing Mafia without you*