Open 334: Friends and Enemies in Icetown (Town Win)

[Maxous]

. I'll have a bit of a reread focussing on these two but right now I'm leaning towards maxous

due to also being the hammer on the smear wagon.

Nothing was really wrong with it; it had to happen. But it was a hammer on a town after all, so you can hardly get town points for it can you?

Can you elaborate on this?

Zachrulez was pushing for a lynch on Malpascp for a long time(as far as vote parking), even when players were'nt paying much attention to him. Seems like he was avoiding the Smear wagon to set up the Day 2 mislynch.
With Paraffin this vote is bs. I am inclined to beleive if they are buddies he would of stated the more pratical explanation that Paraffin was simply joking. I don't think that was a bus vote. Also had a couple of comments which was laying the groundwork for a Paraffin lynch imo. No need to do that to a buddy imo.

VOTE: Lupus Vega

Quick note: I have the biggest job interview of my life Thursday, as well as an entrance exam for the company and scenario testing for the job, so I will not be about Thursday, and tomorrow will be spent getting last minute prep done for the interview day.

Good luck!

[jasonT1981]

Zachrulez was pushing for a lynch on Malpascp for a long time(as far as vote parking), even when players were'nt paying much attention to him. Seems like he was avoiding the Smear wagon to set up the Day 2 mislynch.

Rule 1 - Zach busses big time his partners early on to win town cred when they flip scum. I have been (off site (and I think on MS) ) scum with Zach a few times and he busses when scum and can go after his partners.

[ThAdmiral]

@ maxous: I can see why you are confused, allow me to explain.
1. I believe scum was on the zach wagon.
2. due to poe you and christine were good possibilities for scum.
3. I had to decide which one of you I wanted to vote.
4. I leant towards you due to hammering smear day one. Mind you this was only a slight point against you, but a point nonetheless. Note that chrstine (malpascp at the time) wasn't on that wagon.

Zachrulez was pushing for a lynch on Malpascp for a long time(as far as vote parking), even when players were'nt paying much attention to him. Seems like he was avoiding the Smear wagon to set up the Day 2 mislynch.

Rule 1 - Zach busses big time his partners early on to win town cred when they flip scum. I have been (off site (and I think on MS) ) scum with Zach a few times and he busses when scum and can go after his partners.

Do you think, therefore, that malpascp/christine and paraffin are possibly scum?

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Lupus Vega (3): Lurconis, jasonT1981, Maxous

Maxous (1): ThAdmiral
Christine (1): Lupus Vega

Not voting (4): Descent, CSL, Christine, paraffin

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is October 24th, 1 a.m. CEST.

Christine and CSL have been prodded.

[CSL]

I agree with jason.

Vote: Lupus

[Lupus Vega]

Ok. While I'm at L-1, are people voting me because of my vote on Christine, or because of Lane/Princess's play? If the former, I've already explained that I didn't consider that scum would be reluctant to hammer before a mason claim, but that I felt comfortable leaving my vote on Christine until she actually provided analysis. If the latter, there's not much I can do about it.

If the lynch does go ahead, look at Maxous, for the simple reason that he didn't mention me once in his post except to vote me.

[paraffin]

Oh geez, another L-1 this quickly? Guys, we need to cool our jets; just 'cuz we were right last time doesn't mean we can just jump on the next wagon that comes along. Please don't hammer before tomorrow. I'll have some time on a commute tomorrow morning so I'll finally post something then, I swears!

[paraffin]

But I figure I'll put up a little something now...

So my newbie game has finally wrapped up and I must admit I was giving that one a little more attention than this one, especially as it came down to the final 5 and then 3 (town won ). This will be my last and only game for a while now, as I'm gonna need to focus more on school. We caught Lupus as scum there but at this point in time I'm not ready to try the same.

I do think lane was a bit scummy, for reasons stated, and little things Lupus has said have caught my eye, but it's so early in the day and there's been so little time to discuss anything. The speed with which this wagon has developed is kind of alarming, really.

One argument against him I don't like is about his Christine vote;

What is the scum motivation for quickhammering her partner before he can fake claim mason?

This question assumes that scum knew beforehand that Zach intended to fakeclaim, suggesting in turn that lurconis did in fact know this. In any case, I can easily see scum quickhammering for town points and to prevent Zach from potentially dropping associative tells when trying to defend himself. This would have particularly been a worry for scum because of Jason's strong meta.

Anyway, LURKonis isn't looking so good to me, Maxous even worse if Lupus is lynched and flips town. I think we need to look at more than one person today and I want to start with

VOTE: lurconis

So for the rest we have,

jason - town
maxous - igmeou
ThAdmiral - Didn't like your backpedaling on the smear hammer comment
Descent - Quiet. Too quiet.
CSL - ???
Christine - ???

I'll try and expand on some of this stuff tomorrow morning

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Lupus Vega (4): Lurconis, jasonT1981, Maxous, CSL

Maxous (1): ThAdmiral
Christine (1): Lupus Vega
Lurconis (1): paraffin

Not voting (2): Descent, Christine

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is October 24th, 1 a.m. CEST.

[Descent]

I agree with jason.

Vote: Lupus

I don't like this post, come in, say I agree and vote. Either busy or just trying to get a lynch through.

VOTE: CSL

[jasonT1981]

Lupas, claim time please. you are at -1.

[Lupus Vega]

I'll claim when someone says they're willing to hammer. At the moment, I'm not even sure of the exact reason I'm at L-1, and considering that half the people voting me haven't even put forward reasons for doing so, I'm not going to go along with it at the moment.

[Maxous]

unvote

Hold on.

And I already explained my suspicion of Lupus' slot.

@:Descent - your thoughts on Lupus and Thadmiral please.

[Lurconis]

This question assumes that scum knew beforehand that Zach intended to fakeclaim, suggesting in turn that lurconis did in fact know this. In any case, I can easily see scum quickhammering for town points and to prevent Zach from potentially dropping associative tells when trying to defend himself. This would have particularly been a worry for scum because of Jason's strong meta.

When did assuming scum talk about fake claims in QT become a scumtell? Also you really think Christine who has been on site about as long as I have knows Zach's meta well enough to worry about that? Or do you think in the 4 minutes in between Jason posting the Meta and her hammering she read and analyzed all those games?

[paraffin]

Jason had talked about his meta well before he posted the games;

vote:Zach

He knows why!

plus it's possible Zach would have mentioned it in the QT.

Assuming things about the scum QT becomes a scumtell when you use it as your only evidence in support of a wagon you're on.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAdmiral - Didn't like your backpedaling on the smear hammer comment

I didn't back pedal. I just explained what I meant more clearly. I haven't changed my position.

[IceGuy]

Vote Count

Lupus Vega (3): Lurconis, jasonT1981, CSL

Maxous (1): ThAdmiral
Christine (1): Lupus Vega
Lurconis (1): paraffin
CSL (1): Descent

Not voting (2): Christine, Maxous

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is October 24th, 1 a.m. CEST.

[Christine]

I'm sorry, I have been really sick. Just starting to get back on my feet.


Yes, I did quickhammer. Why? He seemed scummy and all of the arguments against him were very convincing. I never really got the point of waiting for a claim. And, given the fact that he had been so close to a lynch for so long, he should have claimed already. He had the time, he didn't claim, so ya know what, I hammered. And I would do it again. We got our first scum, and if he had made some stupid claim, you people might have believed him. What's done is done.

Now, Lurconis defending me has my eyebrow raised a little bit. It was like he was being on the fence, saying that there was no reason for me to hammer if I was scum, and that I had been acting odd. Dude, you really don't gotta defend me, and the fact that you did almost makes it seem like scum trying to hide out. Defend the person that hammered the scum. Very smooth.

Vote Lurconis

If I was scum, I would have done what you did.

[jasonT1981]

I don't think its scummy, it is just the person who hammers always comes in for scrutiny in these games and some defend it, some attack it.. nothing scummy

[Christine]

It's not the fact he defended me. It is his reasoning behind it. Too much fence sitting.

[Lurconis]

I dont see where you get fence sitting.

@parafin why would you think the christine vote was why I was voting lupas? I voted him before he voted. Mainly for how his prior players played his slot and somewhat from his posts yesterday.

[Maxous]

I need to give this game a re-think :/

Christine does seem towny though.

[jasonT1981]

Paraffin needs to return and explain himself, I seem to remember him being a D1 lynch for this exact behaviour, however. I'm leaning Town on him currently.
.
A dayvig shot from me (at that point) would be aimed at Smear or Zach.

1) Can you link this game please
2 I don't like the dayvig comment on Zach, I have noticed when Zach is town, He is always one of the first to be eliminated from the game by scum due to his experience.

I'm not sure what the reason for saying 2) is, because to me it doesn't seem like it has anything to do with dayvigging Zach. However, I also can't see a scum motivation for saying it, so...hm.

[quote="In post 377, Lupus Vega"

Im starting to get a very slight scum read on Zach, HOWEVER this read maybe due to the fact it was a weekend/holiday weekend start to this game. Will explain more later.

He hasn't explained it yet where I'm up to, but that may change. If he hasn't, though. I'm not sure about this.[/quote]

This is another instance of using someone else's arguments and not bothering to rephrase. Also, I don't recall him having a scum read on Zach before this, it was a town read (I think I even quoted it in my last post). I'm not sure about these two...

Really? gone for a week and nothing at all to add?

no, this is not town Zach

vote:Zach

I'm not sure about this post...I like it, but it could be bussing...but my gut tells me town...but I hate gut. I'll think about it.

interesting, Lupas spends so much time defending or attacking those who go after Zach, then does this with very little actual comments made about Zach himself.

Ok, reviewing my posts, the two people who jump out as quite scummy to me are Mal (now Christine) and Zach. I don't want to vote Christine as she's only just replaced (if I don't like her play, I daresay this will change quickly, as I found Mal worse than Zach [although he did replace out, so I'm uncertain of the read I have now...] So, without further ado:

Vote: Zachrulez

Regarding players' suspicion on Lane/Princess, I'm not going to bother talking about it as I can't see into their heads. If their behaviour is enough to convince you to lynch me, go ahead.

I am honestly thinking, scum defending... then bussing his partner to earn town cred. the sudden vote when he had never gone afterzach before is weird. I am happy with my vote, and confident we will catch scum with a lynch of Lupas

[jasonT1981]

urgh quote fail.

[paraffin]

ThAdmiral - Didn't like your backpedaling on the smear hammer comment

I didn't back pedal. I just explained what I meant more clearly. I haven't changed my position.

Tomatoes, tomatoes.

I dont see where you get fence sitting.

@parafin why would you think the christine vote was why I was voting lupas? I voted him before he voted. Mainly for how his prior players played his slot and somewhat from his posts yesterday.

You supported the wagon with it. And you never mentioned any of this other reasoning.

Admittedly I kinda spaced on the suspicion from Maxous, as most of my reading for that post was in ISO's, but I'd still call your vote opportunistic.