Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

wait, no, alabaska seems to be agreeing with Bogre that... StefanB is scum... but still has his vote on Baby Spice from 15 pages ago.

And his catchup posts have been crap. He has a town read on GW for his miller claim but also thinks it's slightly suspicious and he has a town read on MoI and uh... that's it, I guess.

[MagnaofIllusion]

wait, no, alabaska seems to be agreeing with Bogre that... StefanB is scum... but still has his vote on Baby Spice from 15 pages ago.

This is the important part to note Muffin.

[zMuffinMan]

Also all of yosarian's recent posts have been IIoA. I don't understand the town read on him either, actually.

[Ghostlin]

I'm skimming most of these walls.

@Ghostlin,

I don't get the maxous suspicion. He looks town. I'm following his thought processes and agree with pretty much everything he's written so far.

What do you think of Alabaska? I think he's scum, his posts are like "lol I'm coasting *COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAST*" and the whole "lol I totally agree IceGuy is scum" without voting IceGuy is weird.

Also I know you said not to ask, but why is Yoshi town? I think he's scum, nothing he's done has looked town, I don't understand the town read that you (and some others) have on him.

@IceGuy,

This will be like the tenth time you've been asked, so I'm beginning to think it's pointless repeating this, but why did you suggest that my vote on you was opportunistic and where's my ISO analysis like the ones you did in #357 for the other "opportunistic" voters?

Also don't really get the whole "circlejerk" thing since that's like 1 or 2 players on your wagon and has nothing to do with why I personally think you're scummy.

1) The Maxous suspicion is based almost entirely on gut. It's nagging. Something about his play style, particularly early play has bothered me. Most town is...more fervent in their suspicions---plus he defends David in the early game for casting an FoS instead of a vote. The two are not the same, there is one that town does to confirm suspicion, and there's one that scum does to hedge their bets.

(I'm not saying all FoSes like this, but if you FoS in lieu of casting a vote Day 1, you're being overtly cautious. There's no reason for doing this, and there's less reason for defending such behavior.)

2) Alabaska hasn't posted hardly anything since left V/LA and it wouldn't surprise me if he was scum, the reason that he's null is he's bothering to be responsive at this point, which a number of players AREN'T. If we were to hard line Lynch all Lurkers, it'd be Day 5 or 6 and half the playlist would be dead. Would I oppose an Alabaska lynch? Nope.

3) Read DarthYoshi's ISO again. No, really read it this time. I'll wait.


Done? Still think he's scum? Let me show you what you've missed. There's a few threads that his posts have in common:

1) He calls a lot of people on their crap throughout this game. You may think it's excessive questioning, but I find it keeping certain members of town (myself included, he called me out too) honest. Frankly, considering I just voted someone not having enough apparent honesty to actually answer my question and for a really lame associative tell, this is a big one.

Scum --usually-- don't bother, and if they do, it's usually the good ones. You have a null-townish read for a similar reason, Muffin.

2) He's been mostly active. In this game, that's a freaking big one. Not that I'm giving away free prizes for activity, but a lot of scum who see a lurky game do hide in there.

3) No one's really bothered to put a case up against him that countermands either 1 or 2. Everyone says he's done nothing town (just like you did), but no one's bothered to present a case either. All we've had an attempt on was sage's lame attempt at a weak associative scum tell.

[zMuffinMan]

I've read Yoshi in ISO. I completely disagree that your point (1) means what you think it means and your point (2) isn't even a town tell. It's 4:30am though, so I'll save explanations for when I'm not half-asleep.

[Ghostlin]

Also all of yosarian's recent posts have been IIoA. I don't understand the town read on him either, actually.

1) His Baby Spice case, no matter how probably ill aimed, was well thought out and has good intent behind it. Yes, he does a PBP, which is not always seen townie, but I've never understood the reason. Scum when they put on a scum hunting face

don't

usually PBPA, they go as shallowly as they can for town reads. I've stopped posting PBPA's personally because of people getting bogus information off of it. (ie, it's a tool to let you see what I see, but it rarely works that way).

2) He actually bothers to prod the most interesting claim of the game, GW's Miller claim. Instead of going 'GW's town, GW's scum', he goes through the motivations of why GW --could-- be both with that claim. I'm going to get slightly off topic here and in my first game I replaced in as a newbie (1042), Nacho, who had thoroughly trounced me told me I had mastered the art of asking myself questions (and yes, that's how he worded it) but hadn't delved into motivations. What motivations exist in a post? He acutally took a claim and analyzed both town and scum motivations to it--a Miller claim, which usually at the beginning of the game gets 'oh, you're obvtown', and 'pffft...you've been acting scum, DIAF'.

3) This probing found in #2 is in a lot of his early posts. I don't see scum doing this--not to say that they can't, but scum would have to actively avoid falling into the trap that usually avails scum here--which is trying just hard enough to look town enough to not to get lynched. (Yes, I fall into this mentality sometimes).

4) I like #389.

I agree with #389

. If town saw Day 1's lynch in advantage of 'what do I gain later?', more reasoning like #389 would be used. Yes, you hit lurkers at least 50% of the time, but unless a god role is in play, you've really only lost a townie that doesn't contribute and won't particularly contribute to Lylo. This is also the reason why everyone who's ridden whisper gets a gold star for today.

5) He's keeping whispersilk honest. And posting. Seeming that she wants to lurk, not permitting her to do this is a good thing.

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.12

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

IceGuy (9): Maxous, zMuffinMan, Global Warming, TheJakalope, StefanB, EtherealCookie, sageamagoo, BBmolla, MagnaofIllusion
Otolia (4): sorgster, Oversoul, Dry-fit, Baby Spice
Baby Spice (3): Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith
sageamagoo (3): DarthYoshi, Bogre, Ghostlin
StefanB (2): IceGuy, Otolia
MagnaofIllusion (1): Magister Ludi
David Xanatos (1): PeregrineV
sorgster (1): whispersilk

Not voting (1): David Xanatos

V/LA: Wraith (10/7)
If Magister Ludi has not returned or contacted me by noon on Friday, he will be replaced.

Deadline is October 10th, 2011, at 11:00am EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2011-10-10 11:00:00)

[Ghostlin]

As much as it pains me to say this about two of these, the wagons with 2 or less votes need to dissolve. Unless those players act more scummy, and in DX's case that would be hard, they're not the lynch for today.

[PeregrineV]

Liking and agreeing with Ghostlin on most stuff. Will re-read Sage, but am sheeping for now.

Unvote.
Vote: Sageamagoo

pedit: lol--yes and yes!

[David Xanatos]

Yes, because family issues are scummy. Mhmm. Shove it up your arse Ghostlin.

[Ghostlin]

Yes, because family issues are scummy. Mhmm. Shove it up your arse Ghostlin.

That'd be fine if you were posting anything of note before the family issues. I get V\LA, it's not why I think you're scummy.

[Otolia]

Holy Guacamole ! Why is the deadline so early ? I thought it was next week >>

And I'll have little time this weekend between IPL 3 and work. As Ghostlin pointed out, we need to get a lynch today. I will probably vote for BabySpice as soon as she answers me, if not, I'll re-read IceGuy.

[David Xanatos]

I'm likely not going to get a good grasp on this with the free time I have before deadline. I don't want to vote blindly though, so I'm likely going to remain non-voting until I get up to speed. If I get an unexpected time to read further, I'll be dedicating that time to here though.

[PeregrineV]

@BabySpice

: You quoted my post on your vote that was way too late, but you didn't write anything new. You have to back up your vote with more content than that. I'm still waiting for that.

I will probably vote for BabySpice as soon as she answers me, if not, I'll re-read IceGuy.

If she responds you'll OMGUS Babyspice, but if she doesn't respond, you'll vote IceGuy?

Explain please.

[Yosarian2]

Out of the top wagons, I'd probably vote Ieceguy over Otolia at the moment.

[Bogre]

wait, no, alabaska seems to be agreeing with Bogre that... StefanB is scum... but still has his vote on Baby Spice from 15 pages ago.

And his catchup posts have been crap. He has a town read on GW for his miller claim but also thinks it's slightly suspicious and he has a town read on MoI and uh... that's it, I guess.

-Agreed.

[DarthYoshi]

I've read Yoshi in ISO. I completely disagree that your point (1) means what you think it means and your point (2) isn't even a town tell. It's 4:30am though, so I'll save explanations for when I'm not half-asleep.

The fallacy of your argument is that if a player isn't on a towntell, then they must be scum, which is why null reads exist.

That, and you aren't really arguing anything. You haven't pointed to anything that makes me scummy, you're just repeating it over and over again in the hopes that maybe other people will repeat it too. Weak.

Also,

V/LA for the weekend.

I should be back late Sunday.

[zMuffinMan]

The fallacy of your argument is that if a player isn't on a towntell, then they must be scum, which is why null reads exist.

On the contrary, I have plenty of people in this game that I don't have town reads on or scum reads on. Yos is one of them, for example. I am not sure he's scum but I'm not sure he's town.

Whereas I think you're scum and I'm not sure why people seem to have a town read on you.

Most of your play in this game has just been asking questions here and there and all I've seen you do is attack players for weak reasons.

For example, going back over your vote history...

In #75, you attack IceGuy for going after a "policy lynch" with his RVS vote.

In #81, you attacked Jakalope because he wasn't voting within a group of three people he'd called scum. You tried to justify it in #94 but it still didn't make much sense because there were plenty of other people doing similar things and you attacked none of them.

In #273 you move to the Otolia wagon. Why? Because he said he doesn't usually claim D1 and you said this is crap (it isn't, btw, at least in my experience with him). You then go on to admit that you don't acually find him scummy, but this is what tipped the scale for you... ... ... How the... HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS EVEN MAKE SENSE? What was soooooo scummy about it that you felt the need to abandon the Jakalope wagon? Your attack on sage in this post was equally weak.

A FoS on Ethereal for wagon-hopping in #310 (somewhat legitimate because he has no content to his name, but like... This doesn't really add anything to the game, either)

Switch your vote to sage in #318, because hunting for partners D1 is "inauthentic scumhunting". Apart from the irony (because none of your scum hunting at that point had really seemed "authentic"), it's a weak, weak reason to attack sage.

I don't actually understand why Ghostlin likes #376. It's a bad post. I guess I can sort of see what he likes about it because you say

So the question then becomes, is this post coming from frustrated town or scum trying to discredit their attacker?

and Ghostlin seems to think this sort of analysis makes you town................... but it doesn't. It's just an overly elaborate way of saying "he's scummy" for a weak reason.

The questions you ask are fairly basic and I never get the feeling you're properly analysing things. All of your reads are superficial.


@Ghostlin,

You know how you're talking about Yos being town for analysing motivation etc etc. This is something Yoshi doesn't do. At all. Except for maaaaaaaaaaybe #376, but even then, I think it was just phrased in a way to make it look like he was thinking about it objectively when he wasn't really.

He calls people out on "crap", yes, but this isn't a town tell at all. This is something scum do when they see obviously weaker players making mistakes that can be capitalised on, so they can pretend they're scum hunting. All he's done is attack weaker players for weak reasons.

Look, I understand why you think he's town, but I don't think you're looking at it properly.

Regardless, it's not really important today. I don't see myself pursuing him over IceGuy or Alabaska, and I don't see myself being able to convince enough people that he's scum today, what with 3 days to the deadline and all.

As for Yosarian, most of those things are null to me. Pointing out that someone is lurking and "keeping them in line" isn't a town tell, analysing a miller claim doesn't particularly mean much, and you're clearing him based on how

you'd

play as scum (I'm going to assume you're the lurkity-lurk coasting type of scum). meh, I haven't seen anything that makes me think he's scum but I don't have a town read on him.

[BBmolla]

Alright reread.

My vote is in a good spot. IceGuy's interactions and reactions have been dreadful.

Otolia has gotten a better as the day has gone on, but I have complete opposite view on #355, namely the IceGuy read of course.

I think Babyspice is town.

Iceguy is the best lynch today.

If you're curious about my thoughts on a player in particular just ask. Nobody else is really that noteworthy atm.

[Oversoul]

I'll need to reread IceGuy, but I like my vote on otolia right now.

Also, I will probably not be around this weekend as I am going to wedding and I don't know if the hotel will have Internet. :\

I should be able to post more today as I am not leaving until later.

Muffin, how do you not see Yosarian as town?

[Otolia]

@BabySpice

: You quoted my post on your vote that was way too late, but you didn't write anything new. You have to back up your vote with more content than that. I'm still waiting for that.

I will probably vote for BabySpice as soon as she answers me, if not, I'll re-read IceGuy.

If she responds you'll OMGUS Babyspice, but if she doesn't respond, you'll vote IceGuy?

Explain please.

No, I am voting StefanB currently but I didn't have the possibility to question him after the weekend. So I need to change my vote. BabySpice voted for me for something that wasn't scummy at all. Maybe it makes sense in her head, so I am waiting for her answer which until now she didn't provide. If she don't, I'll vote for her.

On the other hand, the main wagons are IceGuy and me. I thought IcegGuy was townier than most, but I have to re-read him in order to decide if I am going to vote for him. And that has nothing to do with any form of OMGUS.

[StefanB]

Otalia: You post that you don't have the posibility to question me after the weekend? So why don't you question me now or did that before. I will gladly try to answer any question.

David: Have you got enough time for this game, after the deadline. If not, please at last consider replacing out. We need players who can be active.

Still happy with my vote on IceGuy: The best argument for him beeing not scum, is still that he would be even worse as scum. I asked him to make his case on me clear, because I have problems seeing it. Since I only have 2 votes a clear case would be benefical, if IceGuy would have believe in it. And voting without believing is not town. (Yes to pressure people it makes sense, but I feel a lack of pressure from this waggon)

Otalia would still be a good alternative. Doesn't look very town this game.

BabySpice is not a big scumread at the moment. Gut says town, imho not the lynch for today.

Sage: Strange Newbie or not. I would say Newbie at the moment but I posted the strange thinks.

They look like the mainwaggons at the moment. Of course we can still get other waggons, but if you want one, now would be the time for a good case.

[Bogre]

I don't like the above post very much.

It's not scumhunting, just a bunch of reads that seem wishy-washy. He strays away from solidly stating any of his reads are scum, and gives reasons/gut feelings they're town.

The second point is discussing the wagons. "Now's time for a good case if you want a wagon" is just bad- placidly suggesting other wagons are fine and can be started at the moment, but not SUGGESTING any he'd like beyond the two he's weakly supporting, Iceguy and Otolia.

[StefanB]

Bogre: I do only weakly support for an IceGuylynch? Sorry, but how should I make I don't see anythink that makes me even think about him beeing town more clear?
I discused the waggons because we have less than 3 days, so if we want anyother lynch than IceGuy, Otalia, Sage and perhaps BabySpice you need a good point and should start soon.
My points:
IceGuy scum
Otalia: Probably scum
BabySpice: I think town, not my strongest townread, but I think town.
Sage: Newbie and it shows. Not sure if scum too rather lynch him then a bunch of other players but not convinced.

I never gave reasons for IceGuy and Otalia to be town (Yes I mentioned the reason someone gave that IceGuy could be town), BabySpice is for me not a mainsuspect. I made comments on the 4 mainwagons, because I thought that would be a good time to do it.
Bogre: Did you miss that deadline is near?

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.13

With 25 alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

IceGuy (9): Maxous, zMuffinMan, Global Warming, TheJakalope, StefanB, EtherealCookie, sageamagoo, BBmolla, MagnaofIllusion
Otolia (4): sorgster, Oversoul, Dry-fit, Baby Spice
sageamagoo (4): DarthYoshi, Bogre, Ghostlin, PeregrineV
Baby Spice (3): Yosarian2, Alabaska J, Wraith
StefanB (2): IceGuy, Otolia
MagnaofIllusion (1): Magister Ludi
sorgster (1): whispersilk

Not voting (1): David Xanatos

V/LA: Wraith (10/7), DarthYoshi (10/9)

Deadline is October 10th, 2011, at 11:00am EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2011-10-10 11:00:00)

Finding a replacement for Magister Ludi