1237: The Orange Box - OVER

[quadz08]

Thoughts on how the setup could have been changed/improved:

a) made sure town all had the same wincon
b) altered GLADoS' wincon so the that countdown wincon did NOT end the game. (In fact, when I read the role PMs, I assumed it wouldn't. I'm curious to know what Corporal thought.)

I personally really liked the idea of a CPR-doc SK, and it fit perfectly with the role of GLADoS. But 3 different ways to win, one of which is a fairly regular occurrence in today's play (I'd guess deadline lynches / no-lynches happen in about 10% of games?) is moderately OP.

[Umbrage]

@ Robo: Yeah, I screwed up with the FLAVOUR EVERYWHERE bit. There was a similar issue in the scum QT.

@ DH: I crammed a lot of mechanics that I was eager to try out into this game, future games I mod won't be as crazy. I shouldn't have assumed that the deadline consequences were obvious.

@ quadz: Actually the 'town loses if deadline is reached' concept was one of the first inspirations for this game, so I was loathe to part with it. You're right though, if the item wincon was reached I wouldn't have ended the game, I should've done the same for the deadline.

[Hiraki]

Yeah.

I thought I was just surviving, as in 3rd Party, so I didn't really need to care about being townie, especially with an unlimited bus drive.

Like avoiding GLaDoS.

It's kind of why I used it though.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Seriously? I and I was all hyped up that the town was so disfunctional...oh well. I'm just pissed that I didn't get to set somebody ON FIRE!!! I was saving it for either LYLO or for when a wagon started on me. If I got close to being lynched, I would have claimed demo and said than whoever hammered would get blowed up, then I would set somebody on my wagon on fire. I'm kinda mad about GLaDoS's win condition since we lost mainly because of the town's stupidity, which was something we were trying to encourage. Still, it was a fun game.

[hiplop]

umbrage I had fun with our PM session about the cake, quality stuff!

I had fun in this game, wish they didnt rip me

[pinkfloyd]

Wow. That's all I can say.

It seems I technically had the most powerful role because I could strip the items off the scum giving them no ability's.

Oh well, overpowered SK is overpowered

[Captain Corporal]

Yeah, good game

The SK was pretty OP though, I agree

[Alabaska J]

disappointing ending but fun while it lasted

[Robocopter87]

@ Robo: Yeah, I screwed up with the FLAVOUR EVERYWHERE bit. There was a similar issue in the scum QT.

It was the only reason I joined the game. But like I said, you didn't do half bad. Besides the obvious flaw in the setup, it really isn't that bad. And seeing as your new to the whole modding thing, I'm definitely letting it slide.

@Hiplop: I'm sorry. I acted rash.

[xRECKONERx]

So, guys, you're basically telling me that the Serial Killer could win either by:

-Killing everyone and being the last alive
-Getting some sort of item and using it
-Having the game reach a DEADLINE

That's really what you're telling me? And that's balanced?

Yup.

Whattya know, another Umbrage game went SPLAT.

My role was not well explained, so people thought I had died because I hid behind someone, which was false. My headcrab died, not me. But that wasn't explained. Also, LOL MAFIA POWER:

Disguising Strongman
Investigating Roleblocker
Daykilling Bulletproof Saint

Are you shitting me? This was versus LOL TOWN POWER:
Jailkeeper (made irrelevant by the strongman)
Semi-Permanent Bodyguard (a much weaker version of a doctor)
Limited JOAT (don't even know what this means)
Bus Driver (not exactly a very useful role in the hands of town)
Hiding Neighbor (except I didn't get to pick my target, and my death wasn't explained at all, and the neighbor thing was useless)
Paranoid Neighbor (don't know WTF this even means... PGO? Thought I was scum?)
Tracking Vigilante (maybe the only good role town had)
Displacer (wut?)
Limited Cop (once again, a limited version of a town role)

Then we had GLADoS, who could win THREE different ways -- standard SK wincon, the time-related one LOLOLOL, and getting an item. Yet, if she won via items, she was removed... but if she won via time-related shenanigans, the game just ends?

Not to mention town had different wincons.

Empking, seriously, what the fuck? Are you this bad at setup reviewing? Did you really allow your name to be stamped on this?

This was bad bad bad bad bad. The item randomization being completely random (as was my role, as was who knows what else) is also a level of LOL WTF that shouldn't really be in a mafia game, unless it's BASTARD MOD.

ugh.

[DeltaWave]

I had Robo's slot for like 24 hours, so I just wanted to chime in and say that I liked the setup except for the time-based wincon. Also the flavor was awesome.

[hiplop]

@ Robo: Yeah, I screwed up with the FLAVOUR EVERYWHERE bit. There was a similar issue in the scum QT.

It was the only reason I joined the game. But like I said, you didn't do half bad. Besides the obvious flaw in the setup, it really isn't that bad. And seeing as your new to the whole modding thing, I'm definitely letting it slide.

@Hiplop: I'm sorry. I acted rash.

bitch ass boy only good role town had too

[Oversoul]

So, guys, you're basically telling me that the Serial Killer could win either by:

-Killing everyone and being the last alive
-Getting some sort of item and using it
-Having the game reach a DEADLINE

That's really what you're telling me? And that's balanced?

Yup.

Whattya know, another Umbrage game went SPLAT.

My role was not well explained, so people thought I had died because I hid behind someone, which was false. My headcrab died, not me. But that wasn't explained. Also, LOL MAFIA POWER:

Disguising Strongman
Investigating Roleblocker
Daykilling Bulletproof Saint

Are you shitting me? This was versus LOL TOWN POWER:
Jailkeeper (made irrelevant by the strongman)
Semi-Permanent Bodyguard (a much weaker version of a doctor)
Limited JOAT (don't even know what this means)
Bus Driver (not exactly a very useful role in the hands of town)
Hiding Neighbor (except I didn't get to pick my target, and my death wasn't explained at all, and the neighbor thing was useless)
Paranoid Neighbor (don't know WTF this even means... PGO? Thought I was scum?)
Tracking Vigilante (maybe the only good role town had)
Displacer (wut?)
Limited Cop (once again, a limited version of a town role)

Then we had GLADoS, who could win THREE different ways -- standard SK wincon, the time-related one LOLOLOL, and getting an item. Yet, if she won via items, she was removed... but if she won via time-related shenanigans, the game just ends?

Not to mention town had different wincons.

Empking, seriously, what the fuck? Are you this bad at setup reviewing? Did you really allow your name to be stamped on this?

This was bad bad bad bad bad. The item randomization being completely random (as was my role, as was who knows what else) is also a level of LOL WTF that shouldn't really be in a mafia game, unless it's BASTARD MOD.

ugh.

I have a similar feeling, but I'll explain some of the balance factors.

I am not going to comment on the balance issues since I don't know the roles of the town, but I will explain the "balance" that was made to the scumteam.

The ending to this game was unexpected and quite frankly, unfair to everyone involved. In my opinion, activity win conditions should never be implemented in games as they are incredibly cheap. External factors contribute to an activity wincondition for more than an individual's play and this is especially prevalent in this game.

I felt like I had this game figured out going into the night which is why I wanted the game to go into night.

I realized that there was likely a set of numbers that gave out the same item when Number and I received ammo and Hiplop did not. I also knew that Demonhybrid was either cop or a doctor of some sort given his play and I was going to have him killed tonight via another Strongman shot (I killed you Reckoner). I wanted Bub to set RedPanda on fire as he was a vigilante, but I don't know what Bub was doing through out this day. Either way, I was setting him up for a mislynch tomorrow (not that bad when I explain our roles).

I also supsected Robo of being one of the neighbors (along with Reck and Demon) and with the 3 night kill flavors assumed he was the mafia in that neighborhood.

Captain Corporal and Hiraki were also relegated in my mind to be mislynches based off their play as Robo's partners. Alabaska was also a possible second scum member that I wanted to kill on a subsequent night.

My role was not as powerful as you think it was Reckoner. I could change my investigation result (roles/flavor name), but I was not informed of what their role or flavor was. In addition, scum were not given complete fakeclaims, just names of characters that were not included in the game. We had to create our own abilities and actions. My strongman ability could be used in conjunction with my Disguise ability, but I also needed Ammo to do so. You were killed because you were such a vocal and town player. The next victims on our list were Demon and Robo due to their competency. I am really a fan of hamstringing town by removing its best players (regardless of alignment).

We either investigated or roleblocked Demon the first night (I can't remember based off Number's play) and due to Umbrage's strict no cryptography rule we were really hindered in giving results to each other. He would not allow the cryptography that is universally accepted where you hide a message in a paragraph through the capitalization of the first letter in the first word of the sentences (basically like Robo's crumb).

NumberQ had to use ammo in order to use his roleblock. I also think he needed to use ammo for both of his abilities actually. I can't really tell from his posts in the QT.

Bub's role was interesting. He could use ammo to light someone on fire, but we were told that the town could do certain things in order to extinguish that fire. I wanted Bub to use that ability as someone hammered or when deadline was very close to happen (like what happened the second day). As you can see from his post, he had other ideas for that power. In addition to that ability, Bub acted as a bomb to whoever hammered him. He was also bulletproof which made me think that there was a second scum group especially after Hiplop flipped vigilante (did not think there were two vigilantes in this game, Panda proved me wrong ).

Umbrage, why are you so against the cryptography that basically all informative scum members use? (Robo's crumb is an excellent example)

Would I have been lynched because of the deadline? I really don't think I should have been, others disagree? I don't see why scum should be punished for town's inactivity. Or do you have a rule saying that I should be lynched?

What was the "guest" part of the scum QT?

I felt like this game barring any bad mishaps would have been a scum win. :\

[Umbrage]

'Guest' was Gman, because he was the only non-BLU member of the scumteam. Just something I threw in. I thought numberQ would figure it out and tell you guys, then I figured it was better to leave it unexplained for maximum :DRAMA:.

I intended rule #7 to be a counter to the neurotoxin. Weird how everyone was overanalysing the wincons but nobody noticed the neurotoxin messages.

[Oversoul]

Rule 7 is a catch 22. If activity levels are crap, how will people be able to lock the thread? I know this may look like mod intervention but maybe you should have bolded that rule or at least brought it up when Robo had his fiasco...?

Important game specific rules tend to be missed when they are mixed with the normal, obligatory site wide established rules.

Due to the dual wincon, and your explanation of... "threats are anyone who does not have your wincondition" it wasn't that far fetched to think that town would over analyze the situation. It made me think that there were acutally 4 groups of players, 2 town groups and 2 scum groups.

Still like your opinion on the cryptography.

[numberQ]

I had to use ammo to roleblock but not the investigate. And Oversoul, I investigated Demon like I said in the QT and I used the "capitalize the first letter of subsequent posts" thing like I said in the QT... Umbrage said that form of cryptography was okay.

Chronopie's quickhammer, man... Not liking it. But that bandwagon was pretty fast and also makes me wonder.

Whatever let's L-1 this obvscum and check the wagon for bussers.

VOTE: Chronopie

it'd be pretty funny if Chrono was lynched without getting a chance to talk this day. Terrible but funny.

ortal, Half Life, and TF2 are all different universes (well, Portal and Half Life not so much but they're different enough), so it would make sense if there were three different flavors for the same wincon. It doesn't mean there are three different town factions.

UNVOTE

VOTE BUB

Why Bub?

*Portal

I was kind of proud of those last two

[Hiraki]

I'm pretty sure we all thought it was flavor.

[pinkfloyd]

Oh well lessons learned about modding games I guess!

[Robocopter87]

I'm pretty sure we all thought it was flavor.

This. I knew the nuerotoxin was a deadline. But I thought it only was for Day ending. Not game ending.

[hasdgfas]

Fin