Open 338 Jungle Republic StefanBversion - FIN

[Yosarian2]

Well that and do you think scumhunting will be a towntell or not? I don't think it will be, but I also think notscumhunting will be a scumtell. Also, is there a reason you've been spelling "werewolf" as "warewolf"?

I think scumhunting is a towntell, yes. Yes, the scum are going to be going after each other, but scum tend to be more passive then townies; that's why games with a ton of scum, like this one, tend to drag and stall, is because scum tend to mostly sit around waiting for townies to do stuff, and that's half the people in the game.

I didn't revote because no one warranted the vote. Even if it were on the person, it would not exactly be worth it. That being said, I must agree with Yos2 on one point, which makes post 85 by cobbler fairly suspicious because he is posting "only to avoid a prod" which is funny since he gave town points to SirBastion for trying to ENCOURAGE talking, etc.
This is ironic and fishy because he admits there is nothing done while barely progressing anything by asking a question about Yos2 (I don't like him, but more like neutral-1 (-5=confirmed scum) but I don't really think that his play is necessarily scummy given his recent attempts at both making the game go forward and trying to scum hunt.

This bothers me about your play, TOF. Like I said, scum are more likely to be passive then townies, and I find your play so far to be mostly passive.

If a townie knows he's town, then even if he votes someone else totally at random, there's already 5/11 chance he's voting for scum. If he has even vauge unfoundend suspicions that someone is scum, or some vauge towntells on some people, he should be able to do better then that. If you're town in this game, you should ALWAYS be voting for someone, especially if you've seen anything you think is suspicious; so your reluctance to vote bugs me, especially when it looks like there's someone you wanted to vote earlier, but then you just didn't bother.

In general, if you are town, and you think Cobbler made a suspicious post, or if you think Sir Bastion did something scummy, or if you think ANYTHING about ANYONE, you should be aggressively going after them. The fact that you're not makes you look suspicious to me.

[StefanB]

Primate proded

[iamausername]

Speaking of dialogue, one question that comes up a lot, is policy on day 1 lurkers...though it might be problematic with this game due to its unusual late start and we still havnt got 100% numbers yet so we could be seeing a lot of early swaps.

some might say
that sunshine follows thunder
go and tell it to the man who cannot shine

some might say
this post is kind of scummy

UNVOTE: TheOtherFiction
VOTE: Sir Bastion

(Also "Speaking of dialogue" is a ridiculously bad segue, shame on you.)

No takers? OK. Let me explain.

Why is Sir Bastion bringing up the idea of a policy lynch on lurkers here?
Was anybody else talking about lynching lurkers? No. Does Sir Bastion have any opinion to offer on the subject? No. All he has to say is "sometimes people discuss this".

Seems like he's trying to float the idea forward to see how people take it, but without actually committing himself to any opinion, so there's plausible deniability if this is a town that is not amenable to the idea. I don't see why a town player would post something like this.

---

Seemingly random question; Rhinox, how many times have you played with Yos before?

I'm also getting bad vibes from Cobblerfone that I am so far unable to pin down. I'll keep you posted.

[Cobblerfone]

Don't got much to say but holy shit scooby.

Vote: TheOtherFiction

You two know each other? Is he good at finding scum?

[Sir Bastion]

Speaking of dialogue, one question that comes up a lot, is policy on day 1 lurkers...though it might be problematic with this game due to its unusual late start and we still havnt got 100% numbers yet so we could be seeing a lot of early swaps.

some might say
that sunshine follows thunder
go and tell it to the man who cannot shine

some might say
this post is kind of scummy

UNVOTE: TheOtherFiction
VOTE: Sir Bastion

(Also "Speaking of dialogue" is a ridiculously bad segue, shame on you.)

No takers? OK. Let me explain.

Why is Sir Bastion bringing up the idea of a policy lynch on lurkers here?
Was anybody else talking about lynching lurkers? No. Does Sir Bastion have any opinion to offer on the subject? No. All he has to say is "sometimes people discuss this".

Seems like he's trying to float the idea forward to see how people take it, but without actually committing himself to any opinion, so there's plausible deniability if this is a town that is not amenable to the idea. I don't see why a town player would post something like this.

---

Seemingly random question; Rhinox, how many times have you played with Yos before?

I'm also getting bad vibes from Cobblerfone that I am so far unable to pin down. I'll keep you posted.

Actually if you consider that quote in the context of both the post you took it from and the conversation it developed from you'd see I was discussing it as a line of questioning for RQS. Which I was doing a pretty bad job at up until this point because normally one would ask for lurker opinions, but due to the games slow start that would have been pointless since most of the lurkers got replaced.

[funkybike1]

VOTE: TheOtherFiction

[TheOtherFiction]

not much to say at the moment, curious about theotherfiction wagon but not enough to spot the hiding scum atm.

Until then hello Hiraki and funkybike1!!

Are you saying the vagon on me is unwarranted?

Yos2, I could argue that voting just to vote is pretty scummy as well.

Vote Yos2

I may think each are scummy, but it's not enough to warrant a vote. Mafia members could hide among them while slowly controlling the vote. The only one to be suspicious would be the person who hammers, sure, but that's just a silly to assume the hammerer is scum if they just bandwagon early all the time.

Not to mention the commentless votes on me recently.

[Hiraki]

Don't got much to say but holy shit scooby.

Vote: TheOtherFiction

You two know each other? Is he good at finding scum?

Scooby is a bt notorious in the Song Contests. I'm indifferent about him.

However, Scooby was spot on with my analysis of TOF.

Kudos.

PreEdit: scumflail.

This lynch. I feel it in mai bones.

Rush it loud and clear.

[Sir Bastion]

theotherfriction post reads a bit like an omgus. could be a scumflail like hiraki says.

btw

vote Crypto

iamusername told me why he's pushing for my lynch, lets hear yours.

[Yosarian2]

Yos2, I could argue that voting just to vote is pretty scummy as well.

Vote Yos2

I may think each are scummy, but it's not enough to warrant a vote. Mafia members could hide among them while slowly controlling the vote. The only one to be suspicious would be the person who hammers, sure, but that's just a silly to assume the hammerer is scum if they just bandwagon early all the time.

Not to mention the commentless votes on me recently.

Heh. Take a look at this post, everyone.

First, he says "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", right after I explained why pro-town people should vote, especially in this game. Notice that he doesn't

actually

argue that it's scummy, he just vaguely claims that he could.

Then he finally votes. But he doesn't vote for any of the people he's expressed suspicion on; instead, he votes for me. Why? He never really says. I can only assume that he doesn't like that I'm voting for him.

He then gives some vague excuses for not voting ("I think each are summy, but not enough to warrant a vote"; what? How is not voting better then voting for someone you think is scummy? The rest of that paragraph dosn't make a lot of sense either; how does him voting for someone he thinks is scummy make it EASIER for the scum to control the vote?)

He then complains about the people voting for him without reason, but instead of actually going after them, he votes for me, the guy who actually gave reasons for suspecting him.

I think we've got a scum here, folks.

[Cobblerfone]

Don't got much to say but holy shit scooby.

Vote: TheOtherFiction

You two know each other? Is he good at finding scum?

Scooby is a bt notorious in the Song Contests. I'm indifferent about him.

However, Scooby was spot on with my analysis of TOF.

Kudos.

PreEdit: scumflail.

This lynch. I feel it in mai bones.

Rush it loud and clear.

While I'm seeing the scumflail, scooby's case was way weak. It wasn't even a case, just an English teacher's note not to be so wishy-washy in writing.

[Rhinox]

Mostly back. Catching back up now.

[Rhinox]

Seemingly random question; Rhinox, how many times have you played with Yos before?

This is the first time I've had the honor. I think.

[Cobblerfone]

VOTE: TheOtherFiction

Just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be a hammer. That's L-2 I think. Still not liking Yos2. ^I've played with him once, he was N-0 cultrecruited in a doublecult game.

[Hiraki]

Don't got much to say but holy shit scooby.

Vote: TheOtherFiction

You two know each other? Is he good at finding scum?

Scooby is a bt notorious in the Song Contests. I'm indifferent about him.

However, Scooby was spot on with my analysis of TOF.

Kudos.

PreEdit: scumflail.

This lynch. I feel it in mai bones.

Rush it loud and clear.

While I'm seeing the scumflail, scooby's case was way weak. It wasn't even a case, just an English teacher's note not to be so wishy-washy in writing.

Being wishwashy is a big scumtell.

It's just allowing you to say "Hey, I don't have a real opinion. Let me wait to see which one is better."

nonono

[Cobblerfone]

Don't got much to say but holy shit scooby.

Vote: TheOtherFiction

You two know each other? Is he good at finding scum?

Scooby is a bt notorious in the Song Contests. I'm indifferent about him.

However, Scooby was spot on with my analysis of TOF.

Kudos.

PreEdit: scumflail.

This lynch. I feel it in mai bones.

Rush it loud and clear.

While I'm seeing the scumflail, scooby's case was way weak. It wasn't even a case, just an English teacher's note not to be so wishy-washy in writing.

Being wishwashy is a big scumtell.

It's just allowing you to say "Hey, I don't have a real opinion. Let me wait to see which one is better."

nonono

Yeah, but you need to take experience it account. TheOtherFiction joined less than a month ago, which was a plausible cause of the wishy-washy text; She's gettin' the hang of things. The Werewolf-slip here is totally awesome though:

Mafia members could hide among them while slowly controlling the vote.

The way Yosarian spelt "warewolf" had me thinking that if he was scum he was mafia anyway.

[Rhinox]

yos2 said some things I'm not entirely sold on yet but I don't feel strongly inclined to argue the point at this time.

I'm not feeling the TOF wagon at the moment.

[Yosarian2]

Cobbler: So why don't you like my play here?

[StefanB]

Votecount:

TheOtherFiction: scooby, Yosarian2, Hiraki, funkybike1, Cobblerfone (L-2)
Sir Bastion: iamausername, crypto (L-5)
Yosarian2: TheOtherFiction (L-6)
Cobblerfone: Rhinox (L-6)
Crypto: SirBastion (L-6)


Not Voting: Primate, havingfitz

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is now permanent in post 4

If I ever get a name wrong, please it's not personal.
Thanks to SirBastion for the correction, sorry for the second VCerror.

[Sir Bastion]

mod: you have me twice voting Crypto and not voting

[Cobblerfone]

Cobbler: So why don't you like my play here?

I've only played one game with you, so I might not know exactly what's you and what's you-as-scum-in-a-multiscum-game, but I don't like the rhetoric like this:

First, he says "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", right after I explained why pro-town people should vote, especially in this game. Notice that he doesn't actually argue that it's scummy, he just vaguely claims that he could.

You're just pointing out what happened; you don't actually ask her to argue her point. This is evidence that you're more focused on trying to fluff up the case on her than getting her opinion. Especially since the opinion in and of itself isn't scum-motivated. If she were scum she could just agree with your opinion or not bring it up since it is a logical conclusion, instead of bringing up an opinion without any weight behind it.

[Yosarian2]

Cobbler: So why don't you like my play here?

I've only played one game with you, so I might not know exactly what's you and what's you-as-scum-in-a-multiscum-game, but I don't like the rhetoric like this:

First, he says "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", right after I explained why pro-town people should vote, especially in this game. Notice that he doesn't actually argue that it's scummy, he just vaguely claims that he could.

You're just pointing out what happened; you don't actually ask her to argue her point. This is evidence that you're more focused on trying to fluff up the case on her than getting her opinion. Especially since the opinion in and of itself isn't scum-motivated. If she were scum she could just agree with your opinion or not bring it up since it is a logical conclusion, instead of bringing up an opinion without any weight behind it.

It's not rhetoric at all.

I made an argument for why pro-town people should vote, partly as an attack on her. To respond, she responds with the vauge "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", but dosn't actually argue the point at all.

To me, that says that she KNOWS she dosn't have a strong argument here, because she dosn't even make one. I that she knows that her behavior here was anti-town and scummy, and she did it anyway.

I didn't ask her to "argue the point" because that wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that this dosn't look like the kind of defense that someone makes if they actually think that what they were doing is pro-town.

If she was town, she could have said that what I was saying made sense and she probably should have been voting, and then voted. Or, she could have argued that I was wrong, and then said why. She didn't do either of those things; she just made a wishy-washy comment vaguly saying that she didn't think there was anything wrong, and then she put down a vote (and a pretty bad vote at that, one that wasn't at all justified).

I'm not trying to engage in a theory debate here, I'm trying to figure out if she's town or scum based on her posting, and I'm trying to show the rest of the town why I think she's probably scum.

[Rhinox]

so yos... you made a convincing argument that scum would sit back doing nothing. I haven't really seen that in TOF's play, other than her drawing your attention for not voting.

I have a problem with you going after TOF right now, given something else you have done earlier. Earlier, you voted primate. You said he responded better under pressure. Primate posted once, then you said he was more likely town and unvoted. Since then, primate has gone back to lurking. Also, primate has not voted anyone. That post you said was more likely to come from town, didn't contain a vote. So calling Primate's post town seems to directly contradict your statements about how you think scum would be playing.

There are also other players who are currently not voting anyone and doing nothing.

So to me it seems like you are picking and choosing when your scum tells apply and when they don't.

I also have a problem with the way you're attacking TOF.

Examples:

First, he says "I could argue that voting just to vote is scummy", right after I explained why pro-town people should vote, especially in this game. Notice that he doesn't actually argue that it's scummy, he just vaguely claims that he could.

"I could argue that..." is just a figure of speach. Its clear she IS stating that voting just to vote is scummy.

Then he finally votes. But he doesn't vote for any of the people he's expressed suspicion on; instead, he votes for me. Why? He never really says. I can only assume that he doesn't like that I'm voting for him.

She did express suspicion of you earlier. Its in her iso 3. So its not like she pulled your name out of thin air or omgus'd entirely.

-Your rhetoric-y post: you're already to the "covincing the rest of us" stage. Are you already that convinced TOF is scum? For example, why didn't you ask TOF for the reasons why she voted you, or to clear up the paragraph that didn't make a lot of sense. Those seem like things a townie would want to understand and ask as part of scumhunting.

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: iamausername.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[crypto]

Actually.

Unvote. Vote: TheOtherFiction.

L-1, eat a dick, bitch.