Prozacs Basic Theme 3 - GAME OVER

[chkflip]

They want us to distrust you. I have nothing else to say at this point. Doing my own VCA and PBPA for my notes.

[chkflip]

Dubb-a-dubb I missed the question.

MoS, I was running on the fact that you're all a lot more experienced than I am and, therefore, might have been more correct in your reads than I was with mine.

[Mastermind of Sin]

See Dating Game 2 where I as scum roleblocked a claimed vig who had said he was going to kill a townie, just to set up a situation where both the vig and the townie were lynch bait.

(Turns out the vig was an SK and he switched targets last second to try and kill my scumpartner, so that worked out well, but whatever.)

Point is, I can see a gambit where the scum leave you alive because they know they can block you.

[mykonian]

Day 1

Nocmen - 8 -

Blackberry

,

Reck

, chkflip, myko,

Fate

,

TheJackalope

, Katsuki,

Banshee

Bogre

- 10 -

Flameaxe

,

Fate

,

TheJackalope

,

David

,

Blackberry

,

Elli

, myko,

Trekkers

,

xvart

, Bunnylover

Day 2

myko - 3 - nocmen, katsuki, MoS
Katsuki - 8 -

Fate

,

David

, chkflip, Stranger,

Reck

,

Oman

, Nocmen,

xvart

xvart

- 9 -

Fate

,

Reck

, Bunnylover,

TheJackalope

, katsuki,

Ellibereth

, MoS, dramonic, chkflip

Day 3

dramonic - 5 - MoS, Nocmen, mykonian,

TheJackalope

, StrangerCoug
Bunny - 7 -

Fate

, Katsuki, chkflip,

Oman

,

Elli

,

TheJackalope

,

David

Day 4

Bunny - 4 - Stranger, dram, nocmen, mos

Banshee

- 4 -

Fate

, myko, bunny,

TheJackalope

David

- 6 -

Fate

, Nocmen,

TheJackalope

, StrangerCoug, Bunnylover, mykonian

Day 5

Katsuki - 3 - Bunnylover, mykonian,

TheJackalope

TheJackalope

- 6 - Nocmen, StrangerCoug, Katsuki,

Banshee

, chkflp, mykonian

Lets not forget you. There was only one wagon scooby ended up with, and, hey, I'm missing my rocketwagon? He was on there too. Otherwise, apart from being at the end of the Elli wagon, scooby did very little other then filling the thread with useless rage.

1) Stranger, Nocmen, and myko: Why weren't you on the xvart wagon?

IIRC, I didn't see the reason why Fate led that wagon, and I didn't like at all how it formed, seen that some people I distrusted hopped on too easily. Might be that there was a counterwagon which I liked better.

vote MoS

Yes, exactly for that post.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Lets not forget you. There was only one wagon scooby ended up with, and, hey, I'm missing my rocketwagon? He was on there too. Otherwise, apart from being at the end of the Elli wagon, scooby did very little other then filling the thread with useless rage.

No one forgot me.

Disclaimer: I'm not doing wagon analysis on myself, but someone else is more than willing to use the data above to look at my/scooby's patterns if they aren't yet convinced that I'm town. I'm putting this disclaimer here in good faith so that you know I'm not maliciously omitting myself from the results. Some of my conclusions may also apply to scooby's voting pattern, but since I know his/my alignment, that narrows the field for me to figure out which people exhibiting such behavior were actually possible scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Still waiting on StrangerCoug and Katsuki to respond before analyzing the questions I gave people.

[Mastermind of Sin]

In the meantime, I'd like to see people giving their thoughts on these possible scumgroups (included below for reference). No need to comment on a scumgroup you're included in, because obviously you don't think it's correct. However, if you wish to substitute someone else in for yourself and argue why that scumgroup makes more sense, that's acceptable.

Scumgroup 1: xvart, Elli, Stranger, chkflip, Nocmen
Scumgroup 2: xvart, Elli, Bunny, Mykonian, Dramonic

[Porochaz]

v/la until tuesday

[Porochaz]

Katsuki is being replaced.

[StrangerCoug]

About ready to fall sleep right now, but to answer Mastermind of Sin's questions, avoiding wagons, be that xvart's or anyone else's, was not really a conscious thought. The wagons weren't on people that stood out that much to me.

[Nocmen]

I'm here, midterms + Forza 4 have consumed me these past 2 days.

I'll comment more on the possible pairings MoS listed when I can go through each pair of players at a time

[Katsuki]

I'm still alive, but just barely.

4am now, will try and get something up tomorrow if I can... though I'll be conducting interviews tomorrow night so... If not tomorrow, Friday.

[Katsuki]

Oh shit nvm, guess I'm being replaced.

[Porochaz]

Having PM'ed Kat, he is not replaced provided he posts

[Mastermind of Sin]

V/LA over the weekend.

[Mastermind of Sin]

wtf no posts all day?

[Bunnylover]

Sorry I've been busy with work.
Working 8 to 2 tomorrow and Friday, so I will have more time .
Anyways, MoS the only thing I don't think make sense about scum group 1 is Stranger. He doesn't come off to me as scum. I'm not saying he the towniest of the town, but he just doesn't read scum towards me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What do you say about this then, Bunny!

David Xanatos is our best option here. I'm pretty sure he and Bunnylover are of opposing alignments and the way he's dealing with the claimed living cop and the masons points toward him being scum.

[mykonian]

Guys, I need a few more on the MoS wagon to make him sweat. You aren't going to tell me you liked that bandwagon analysis post by him, are you? So do the logical thing and vote some scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

If I was scum I'd have a hell of a lot better idea who I wanted to lynch right now. I'd have just picked someone easy like chkflip or StrangerCoug and ridden them all the way to lynch without bothering to take a step back and look at the game as whole.

Of course, if you're stubborn and don't believe me, you're welcome to research my scum meta on your own.

[Bunnylover]

What do you say about this then, Bunny!

David Xanatos is our best option here. I'm pretty sure he and Bunnylover are of opposing alignments and the way he's dealing with the claimed living cop and the masons points toward him being scum.

It was stupid even thinking that.
I don't even know what to think of that.
I actually really hate people who do that type of scumhunting, this person must be scum if this person is town.
Scum would benefit from this, easy vote placement.
Townie not so much, and I can't fathom why townies would consider this.

[Katsuki]

4) Katsuki: Who do you believe the remaining scumgroup is?

To be honest, I'm not sure.

I still think Nocmen is scum, based on his play, the vibes he gives me, and as an added bonus (but to a lesser effect), that D1 Nocmen wagon. If he flips scum, then there is definately scum amongst chkflip/myko.

I've thought Myko as scummy since D1, but I am much more hesitant on him due to a game I just played with him where I mislynched him as scum where his play came off as incredibly scummy. His play here is much different from there so I can't draw much parallels, but I don't feel confident lynching him yet.

SC I need to re-read.
I need to re-read Elli as well, though I don't know how much he might have left behind in his ISO since he was pretty much V/LA throughout the entirety of this game.

Rest of players I have no reads on.


So as a tl;dr, I'd love a Nocmen lynch today.

[mykonian]

I wish I was as certain of my cases here as I was there. This game is really going nowhere.

As for people thinking I'm scummy, that seems to happen every single game. As long as they don't lynch me for it, I'm fine. It's really amazing to see that I get lynched in games where no cases are made, and I'm not lynched in games where cases form the basis. Cases catch myko scum, using gut gets myko lynched pretty much every single game. Hoopla says I'm stretching to conclusions, she's probably the best one to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Stretching to conclusions I might be, but I do catch scum with it now and then and it always makes sense. To me at least, and to a good reader too.

Just take that big post by MoS. I really dislike it, even forgetting about scooby's and MoS's play beforehand. And I'll tell you why:

In a long game, scum have a problem compared to a short game: at some point they ran out of their targets, either because the town finds your target to by townie, or they got lynched already. In short, you need some new goals. For town, this means getting reads from posts. For scum this is harder to fake, so what is the ideal solution? A reread. A cold hard analysis which gives a set of lynch targets automatically. So, straight at the start of the day, after MoS nightkilled banshee and he had thought about the goals next day and realised he didn't know exactly where to go, he posted a bandwagon analysis. And I don't have to tell you how they can be manipulated by scum, because bandwagon analysis is such a crude way of scumhunting, as long as you are only looking at placement on the wagon. Scum are countering to that already for a long time. So MoS is looking very brilliantly scumhunting with his analysis and subsequent questions, but in fact he has just given himself a set of targets, and further bases on that post a few other posts asking questions to look active.

want to know why he just asks them to look active? Just check what his reactions on the answers are: they aren't there.

MoS states that he could have gone for an easy mislynch like SC or chkflip. I ask you, who wants to lynch SC after fate called him town based on meta? Who thinks chkflip is a good choice after he so bluntly disagreed with the direction I was taking, showing pure paranoia while the town considered me townie? Those aren't easy mislynches at all, and I honestly don't see any reason to pursue either.

TL;DR you really need to be on the MoS wagon.

[StrangerCoug]

I still think lynching chkflip is the answer, but Mastermind of Sin might be doable as well, especially since he doesn't have the best of cases on me and admitted that I'm "easy".

[Nocmen]

I still think lynching chkflip is the answer, but Mastermind of Sin might be doable as well, especially since he doesn't have the best of cases on me and admitted that I'm "easy".

Why aren't you easy? Your main scumhunting has come from the stuff with DX, and your vote jumping, espeically early with regards to elli and xvart, seems like distancing.