Imperial Intrigue (Endgame, OUT OF NOWHERE)

[MacDougall]

Lol I am not Mafia. I am a loyalist and I get the feeling I might be the only one.

[kdowns]

VOTE: Mattp

[MacDougall]

Okay so that puts MattP at L-2.

[EtherealCookie]

What the f?
Why are we lynching MattP?
The case against him is so fucking weak compared to MacDougall or screamoutscummieVez.

[Bogre]

Also as for Vezok. Surely, by now, if he was town, the scum teams would have fought to have him lynched? He's been coasting along. As town, a player like him would have been dragged out by the scum for sure.

...completely WIFOM.

[MattP]

What the f?
Why are we lynching MattP?
The case against him is so fucking weak compared to MacDougall or screamoutscummieVez.

I am just as confused as you are.

[Bogre]

What the f?
Why are we lynching MattP?
The case against him is so fucking weak compared to MacDougall or screamoutscummieVez.

....How does that jibe when Macdougall's biggest push is on Vezok?

On the Mattwagon: Only thing I'm bothered with is pointless commentary on Shinki, without -any- other commentary. (the beware players bemoaning night kills tell). Since the wagon had gained something like 3 votes in 6 posts and less than 24 hours, still kind of a stretch to call it coasting because the wagon happened so fast.

VOTE: Sodaspirit

The vote/unvote/vote again business is pretty bad, not to mention, if it's real coasting we're looking for: soda. Hopping on all the popular wagons and giving about 0 reasoning.

[manho]

unvote

The reaction from MattP is townish.

[MacDougall]

Also as for Vezok. Surely, by now, if he was town, the scum teams would have fought to have him lynched? He's been coasting along. As town, a player like him would have been dragged out by the scum for sure.

...completely WIFOM.

Well... not really. It makes sense.

[Bogre]

I mean, you're saying scum would try to lynch him if he's town, and because he hasn't been lynched, you're going to lynch him, because that makes him scum since he hasn't been lynched.

[MacDougall]

Well that was in addition to a bunch of other reasons that he's scum.

[EtherealCookie]

It's WIFOM.
It's bad.

[EtherealCookie]

And yes, which leads me to two conclusions, Bogre:
My first that was proposed earlier of two scum teams, and the second being that one out of the two is scum at the least. Vezok is a better check. I think Mac's play has slightly been more townish, but not enough to erase my suspicions of him.

[vezokpiraka]

Maybe, just maybe I wasn't lynched in the two days scum could've lynched me because WE FRIKING LYNCHED SCUM TWO DAYS IN A ROW.

[MacDougall]

vote: SodaSpirit17

[manho]

Also as for Vezok. Surely, by now, if he was town, the scum teams would have fought to have him lynched? He's been coasting along. As town, a player like him would have been dragged out by the scum for sure.

...completely WIFOM.

Well... not really. It makes sense.

So by your logic, you are the scum wanting that vezok easy lynch?

[MacDougall]

Except that it's obvious that if I were scum I would not point out that fact as that would laughably stupid.

In any sense, a re-read of Vezok opposed to Soda Spirit leads me to find the latter a more appealing lynch.

[manho]

Except that it's obvious that if I were scum I would not point out that fact as that would laughably stupid.

In any sense, a re-read of Vezok opposed to Soda Spirit leads me to find the latter a more appealing lynch.

yes, that's mean the logic is wrong...

and i also think soda should be the lynch. will vote after a more detailed reread.

[AGar]

Lol I am not Mafia. I am a loyalist and I get the feeling I might be the only one.

Guys, this defense is so convincing. What was I ever thinking, suspecting this guy? We should all just follow his reads and sheep him till death do us part.

(the beware players bemoaning night kills tell)

This tell.. is so inaccurate it's not even laughable anymore.

Except that it's obvious that if I were scum I would not point out that fact as that would laughably stupid.

(cue Quake announcer voice)

W-W-W-W-WIFOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

---

- Oh look, MacDougall has conveniently decided to lynch Soda now that he's been called on the carpet about his bullshit Vezok push. Good to know.
- I like manho. I'd like him better with a bit more content. But I like manho.
- Boger is good too.
- Soda has gone turbolurk now. Magua's turbolurk is noted too. Nicely found enough time to drop 4 posts on his Mini Theme, couldn't even drop one here. Been 55ish hours since he posted.

---

- Key note in post 888, where MacDougall posts his "case" on Vezok. Vezok ISO#5 (860), Vezok states that he isn't sure about Shinki's claim, and the play surrounding it is sketchy. Vezok pretty clearly notes that he is doubtful of the claim. Accurate or not, not important. The clarity is. He makes this abundantly clear ("Shinki is playing so fail with that claim [...] I never saw a cop that didn't want a guilty lynched"). In Vezok ISO#7, Vezok announces that Shinki never outright claimed to be a cop ("

HE NEVER SAID HE IS A COP

"). Consistent with his earlier beliefs, but MacDougall attempts to paint this otherwise, announcing that Vezok was "happy to let us all roll with Shinki being a cop" (no he wasn't) and that he "flip flopped on an important issue." (lolnope). Also note that MacDougall said that "this has been the scummiest player since day 1, gotta go imo." But oh wait, Vezok isn't mentioned until ISO#25 (Day 1) where he's be "willing to vote for Vezok, too" in consideration between DX and Vezok, and then he never votes until ISO#82 (888, the post I'm ripping to shreds right now) on

the third day phase we had.

But the guy has been the scummiest player since Day 1?

MacDougall casted a vote to no-lynch on Day 1 when he wasn't comfortable with the lynch choices. If Vezok has been the scummiest player since Day 1, why did he not try and push a case on him then, instead of voting no-lynch?

Soda today, MacDougall tomorrow, profit.

[MacDougall]

Lol I am not Mafia. I am a loyalist and I get the feeling I might be the only one.

Guys, this defense is so convincing. What was I ever thinking, suspecting this guy? We should all just follow his reads and sheep him till death do us part.

(the beware players bemoaning night kills tell)

This tell.. is so inaccurate it's not even laughable anymore.

Except that it's obvious that if I were scum I would not point out that fact as that would laughably stupid.

(cue Quake announcer voice)

W-W-W-W-WIFOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

---

- Oh look, MacDougall has conveniently decided to lynch Soda now that he's been called on the carpet about his bullshit Vezok push. Good to know.
- I like manho. I'd like him better with a bit more content. But I like manho.
- Boger is good too.
- Soda has gone turbolurk now. Magua's turbolurk is noted too. Nicely found enough time to drop 4 posts on his Mini Theme, couldn't even drop one here. Been 55ish hours since he posted.

---

- Key note in post 888, where MacDougall posts his "case" on Vezok. Vezok ISO#5 (860), Vezok states that he isn't sure about Shinki's claim, and the play surrounding it is sketchy. Vezok pretty clearly notes that he is doubtful of the claim. Accurate or not, not important. The clarity is. He makes this abundantly clear ("Shinki is playing so fail with that claim [...] I never saw a cop that didn't want a guilty lynched"). In Vezok ISO#7, Vezok announces that Shinki never outright claimed to be a cop ("

HE NEVER SAID HE IS A COP

"). Consistent with his earlier beliefs, but MacDougall attempts to paint this otherwise, announcing that Vezok was "happy to let us all roll with Shinki being a cop" (no he wasn't) and that he "flip flopped on an important issue." (lolnope). Also note that MacDougall said that "this has been the scummiest player since day 1, gotta go imo." But oh wait, Vezok isn't mentioned until ISO#25 (Day 1) where he's be "willing to vote for Vezok, too" in consideration between DX and Vezok, and then he never votes until ISO#82 (888, the post I'm ripping to shreds right now) on

the third day phase we had.

But the guy has been the scummiest player since Day 1?

MacDougall casted a vote to no-lynch on Day 1 when he wasn't comfortable with the lynch choices. If Vezok has been the scummiest player since Day 1, why did he not try and push a case on him then, instead of voting no-lynch?

Soda today, MacDougall tomorrow, profit.

I'm so far down the rabbit hole of muddled understanding and some of you have tunneled me so far that nothing I do is ever going to pull me free and I've been on the hook for days. Oh well, I'll give it a shot.

"Guys, this defense is laughable?" I didn't even say that, you are taking my words and bending them to your own means.

Called on the what? You are the only one actively defending Vezok so it's not like your opinion is the only opinion floating around. Vezok has very few posts in the game but they are all bad... I agree with your point that he could just be town with no clue, but I still think he's a great lynch candidate. I had a read of Soda's ISO and from the first post he reads badly and a Soda lynch will give us more to work with than a Vezok lynch. Of course that won't be the case if you just assume "MacDougall busing another scum buddy." I don't really care to paint my read clearly because a quick glance at his ISO will give you all the same reads that I now have. Are you suggesting that I am busing Soda? That would mean that my hammer on Empking, my first vote on StrangerCoug and now my wagon vote on Soda are all bus votes. Sure, it's possible that I hate my own team that much but eventually I will run out of teammates if I keep voting to get them lynched. Soda isn't even the vote leader right now, so why would I bus him if he were my teammate?

It's interesting to note that that reads post I made on Vezok was when I was forced to. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the best (or more experienced) mafia player, especially when it comes to making town posts that seem town. Everything I do as town has a scum tinge and I don't really know why. But I read Vezok as scum. I find it difficult to explain why at times because I make reads more on word choice, phrasing etc. than actual words. Words can be faked, the way it's phrased is much harder to fake. Unfortunately all I can say in response to your breaking of my Vezok argument, is that I read him incorrectly. The first post you quoted read to me like he was suggesting that Shinki was fake claiming cop, while now you have pointed out that he was trying to suggest that Shinki wasn't a cop at all. I'm sure I wasn't alone at the time misreading that. The latter, then seemed to me like a back pedal. I'm sure it's believable that I would read Vezok incorrectly.

Anyway, I'm not scum... But if you're already convinced, you can stop tunneling me now and try to focus on some other players... you might actually find some real scum if you look at someone other than me.

[MacDougall]

Ah right... MacDougall is in this game.

Man I wish I had a double dayvig right now.

And no, Vezok. That is the shittiest logic I have ever seen anyone use. And this isn't your first game. Jesus christ start playing like you have a brain please?

What on Earth does this mean? I make a post pointing out the flaws in Vezok's play so you suggest day vigging both of us while insinuating that I should be day killed for being me and follow it up with having a go at Vezok for poor play?

Am I reading into that correctly?

No. I'm suggesting I would dayvig yourself and SodaSpirit, and simply implying that Vezok's line of thought is flawed.

You've been scumming it up since Day 1, and I've already pointed this kind of thing out. You've pretty much just slid by on flawed logic and a lack of motivation to provide your own proper lines of thought so far in this game.

You're scum, and I know this

, so why don't you just do us a favor and out your buddies?

Lol I know when I flip town you're just gonna be all "well he was playing shit so it's his fault" but I'd just like to say in advance, that you are a genius. Vezok is super scummy but he is a VI so he must be town. MacDougall is a second gamer, with a few teething problems, four times the posts itt and far more useful info than Vezok but he is obvscum.

Genius mafia player this guy. Lynch the active bad town player, keep the lurking bad town player. Solid logic.

[AGar]

Complete and Total 100% Unfounded Setup Speculation

Take this with a grain of salt.

We have had two anti-town flips - Empking as Terran mafia, and StrangerCoug as House Bremburg. Now there are two possible theories to draw here.

- Night 1, we had 3 kills. SleepyKrew's death was claimed as a 1-shot kill by vigKdowns.
- Night 2, we had 1 kill. David Xanatos was fairly easy to work out as a Beloved Princess, however, and as such could have easily drawn two shots from multiple scumteams.
- Night 3, we have 2 kills. Shinki was an obvious kill as a gunsmith, and monk was obvious as a mason.

Option 1: We are in a two scum, no 3rd party setup. This is the one I feel more likely about, reflecting on the night kills and where they fell. JDGA was a fairly neutral kill, as was gandalf. SKs usually make bold, vocal kills because they want to avoid

all

attention, so as long as their target wasn't onto them - it's a solid choice. This would mean that House Bremburg is a mafia faction (and SC would have been a limited modified Godfather), and the likely numbers (based on common balance) would be 3 mafia left in each faction. 16:4:4 is a fairly balanced way to go for a setup. Worst case scenario for a really bad town, you're in a 6:4:4 pseudo-MYLO after 3 nights of play, assuming you suck at lynching scum, the 1-shot shoots wrong, and both scum factions shoot a different town player every night.

Option 2: We are in a two-scum, 1 SK setup. SC was the SK, by this logic. Tough sell on this is that two of the four killers on Night 1 (1-shot Vig, Terran Mafia, Other Mafia, SK-SC) stacked up their kill. Given the 3 deaths, I find it highly unlikely. I'd still say 15:4:4:1, but maybe 17:3:3:1 depending on how powerful the mafia are.

TL;DR: I'm bored and slightly intrigued by setup possibilities and figured I'd put them out in writing in case anyone actually cared to take an insight.

P-Edit: I'll get to you scum-man.

[MacDougall]

Sorry I don't quite see in your breakdown how the possibility of a 1 scum team + 1 sk isn't possible?

[MacDougall]

Complete and Total 100% Unfounded Setup Speculation

We have had two anti-town flips - Empking as

Terran mafia

, and StrangerCoug as House Bremburg. Now there are two possible theories to draw here.

Terran Agents Role Cop. Doesn't say Mafia. Why are you assuming Terrans are Mafia?

[AGar]

I'm so far down the rabbit hole of muddled understanding and some of you have tunneled me so far that nothing I do is ever going to pull me free and I've been on the hook for days. Oh well, I'll give it a shot.

That's not true at all. But you're going to have to actually, y'know, prove that your town through something other than "OMG I'M TOWN GUYS!" or picking on the easy lynch. Rookie scum mistakes.

"Guys, this defense is laughable?" I didn't even say that, you are taking my words and bending them to your own means.

I was mocking the fact that you were defending yourself with "OMG I'M TOWN GUYS AND AM I THE ONLY ONE?"

Called on the what? You are the only one actively defending Vezok so it's not like your opinion is the only opinion floating around.

Oh really now.

I said you were called on your bullshit, as in your weak attempt to get Vezok lynched to have an easy lynch. There are three posts calling you on your pisspoor logic.

Vezok has very few posts in the game but they are all bad... I agree with your point that he could just be town with no clue, but I still think he's a great lynch candidate.

Could be town. Great lynch candidate.

Could you, y'know, NOT make this so easy?

I had a read of Soda's ISO and from the first post he reads badly and a Soda lynch will give us more to work with than a Vezok lynch. Of course that won't be the case if you just assume "MacDougall busing another scum buddy." I don't really care to paint my read clearly because a quick glance at his ISO will give you all the same reads that I now have. Are you suggesting that I am busing Soda? That would mean that my hammer on Empking, my first vote on StrangerCoug and now my wagon vote on Soda are all bus votes. Sure, it's possible that I hate my own team that much but eventually I will run out of teammates if I keep voting to get them lynched. Soda isn't even the vote leader right now, so why would I bus him if he were my teammate?

- You conveniently read Soda's ISO after Vezok's lynch support all but failed.
- Actually, Soda lynch will still give us more to work with than a Vezok lynch, because Soda is more likely to be town.
- So you want a lynch.... without putting effort in.
- I'm suggesting you could very well be bussing soda.
- No, it would mean that one of either your hammer on Empking or your

2nd

(key point here) "follow-the-cop" vote on StrangerCoug was bussing (either is a prime bus vote) and then your vote on Soda could be a bus, or could be multiball scum-on-different-scum action.
- Besides, I bussed all 3 of my partners aggressively in one game (and then proceeded to pretty much coast on massive town-cred), and have a habit of "KILL ALL PARTNERS" syndrome when I'm scum. It happens, it's not as unlikely as you think.

It's interesting to note that that reads post I made on Vezok was when I was forced to. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not the best (or more experienced) mafia player, especially when it comes to making town posts that seem town. Everything I do as town has a scum tinge and I don't really know why. But I read Vezok as scum. I find it difficult to explain why at times because I make reads more on word choice, phrasing etc. than actual words. Words can be faked, the way it's phrased is much harder to fake. Unfortunately all I can say in response to your breaking of my Vezok argument, is that I read him incorrectly. The first post you quoted read to me like he was suggesting that Shinki was fake claiming cop, while now you have pointed out that he was trying to suggest that Shinki wasn't a cop at all. I'm sure I wasn't alone at the time misreading that. The latter, then seemed to me like a back pedal. I'm sure it's believable that I would read Vezok incorrectly.

Believable? Yes. It's also believable that you - as scum - saw an open opportunity to try and jump on a player that doesn't play well, but has a higher likelihood of being town than scum, and decided to try and push invalid points as a case against him to get town cred, and didn't expect it to backfire quite like this.

Anyway, I'm not scum... But if you're already convinced, you can stop tunneling me now and try to focus on some other players... you might actually find some real scum if you look at someone other than me.

If you were more focused on "scumhunting" instead of not dying (another scumtell, oh by the way - since scum have a harder time winning when their team dies [osnap]), you'd realized that I've pointed out several players leaning either way on my reads. Manho, town. Peregrine, townish. Vezok, townish. MattP, not likely to be scum so townish. Soda, scum. Magua, scum. I won't give you a list of every read I've got, but I've given you plenty to work with.

P-Edit1: Because there were two kills last night, and we've killed two anti-town players from different factions. WOAH.
P-Edit2:Because a rolecop isn't a role you give to a lone 3rd party. A lone rolecop is kinda dick since, y'know, he's just a neutral rolecop. No mod would do that unless this was bastard modding - which Wraith did not warn us of.