Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[Vi]

*shoves everything except post 974 offstage*
*points to 974*
*

confirms vote on Fishythefish

*
*does not swallow sun in doing so*

*retires for night*
*slams door on way out*

[Luxury]

His scum read on Fishy revolves around his defence of GNR I believe.

So if I understand this all correctly Vi is saying that Fishy is roleblocking scum who roleblocked the BP SK last night while shooting them thus no deaths occuring...

[saulres]

I think we should all just stop speculating on what Vi means until Fishy talks. I know that's what

I

'm going to do.

[Crab Canon]

Yeah. that really seems like a lot of crazy speculation honestly. I mean, maybe I can get on board with the Fishy claims RB to save GNR part, but the SK stuff is a bit out there imo. Too much speculation to reach that conclusion. I want to hear from Fishy as well.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote Count 3.1

Junpei (L-5) - Crab Canon
4nxi3ty (L-5) – Junpei
Amrun (L-5) – Luxury
Fishythefish (L-5) – Vi

Not Voting (6) - SnakePlissken, saulres, 4nxi3ty, ace5993, Fishythefish, Amrun

Deadline: Wednesday October 26 @ 8:00 PM Eastern
Countdown: (expired on 2011-10-26 20:00:00)

[4nxi3ty]

riggs was the piece that didn't fit with my puzzle, i am no longer confident in my reads so i will be taking a step back today and will probably vote the most viable wagon. anyone is welcome to ask me questions.

since a lot people don't want to take the time to translate vi i'll give it a go.

Ah, ok.

In that case, I think that Vi should make a post in the

G_N_R QT

saying exactly what she doesn't like about him there - it seems important to her case on him.

*points to ace5993*
*points to ace5993 a few more times*
*raises both hands, palms up*
*twitches eyebrow way up*

it is suspicious that fishy only wanted vi to post in gnr's qt and not ace's.

If

G_N_R

doesn't relay it, we lynch him.

*lightly bats the air in front of me*

fishy is lightly pushing gnr lynch.

VOTE: Anxiety

Also,

I'm partially claiming

. I roleblocked

Anxiety

last night. Given two BPs and the SR kill, I'm strongly suspecting scum missed their kill last night - I doubt we only have one kill, and I doubt the scum would shoot SR. Me blocking Anxiety isn't the only explanation for a missed kill - Vi being shot at by

a scumteam not including GNR

is the other obvious one - but it's certainly one explanation, and that makes him more likely scum.

It also makes him a much better lynch than GNR. Because if GNR is scum, then scum wouldn't shoot at Vi (or indeed GNR)

, and so we need another explanation for a missed kill.

*sees wagon rolling toward me*
*catches wagon*
*pushes wagon in direction other than its original direction*

fishy sees wagon gaining momentum so he pushes it towards me.

*lurks*

*nods*

fishy has been lurking since than.

this is only my interpretation so it would be nice if vi could confirm.

[Amrun]

Vi, I still don't follow.

A RBing SK is weird and I see no reason that it's true. I see LESS reason that Anxiety is town after being supposedly RB by fishy.

In fact, seeing as GNR did not flip what we expected, I am not sure if I can trust you and think YOU might be the bp sk.

VOTE:

[saulres]

...

That post made no sense.

First, GNR flipped exactly what we suspected. That's why we lynched him in the first place.

Second, if if you think Vi is a "bp sk", why did you vote Junpei, who you didn't even mention in that post?

[Amrun]

He didn't flip Penn or Teller.

I think it's POSSIBLE Vi is SK, but even if I had proof of that, I'd still be voting for likely scum instead of possible sk.

I've suspected junpei since day 1... Sorry for expecting you all not to have the memory of a goldfish.

[Fishythefish]

I blocked saulres last night, because I thought he might be scum. This makes him more likely scum of some ilk. Particularly if we ever see two kills in a night.

GNR isn't Teller? Surprising. Any idea why, Vi?

@Vi: I think my claim was pretty sensible at that point. My lurking afterwards is something that just happens at the weekend. I can absolutely see why my play there would make sense as scum - clearly, my claim had some chance of deflecting the wagon off GNR. On the flip side, is there any reason you think I wouldn't play like that as a town roleblocker?

[Vi]

this is only my interpretation so it would be nice if vi could confirm.

*shakes hand briefly*
*nods*

A RBing SK

*strong glare*
*checks to see if nooses come in your size*

GNR isn't Teller? Surprising. Any idea why, Vi?

For those of you who think I'm scum, you're wrong. I am Penn Jillette of the group Penn and Teller. Care to take a guess who Teller is?

*puts finger and thumb in shape of an L on your forehead*

On the flip side, is there any reason you think I wouldn't play like that as a town roleblocker?

*nods*
*produces orange piece of paper shaped like circle*

You all assemble the next day outside the Magic Castle and there’s a body lying face down in the grass outside. One of you with a strong stomach rolls the corpse over and the majority of you retch as the body has a large crater in their chest and their heart has been removed. You slowly scan up to their face to find…

sottyrulez –

Criss Angel had his heart removed N1

You really need to find out who is behind this and stop them.

I roleblocked Anxiety last night.

*swings orange circle around twice*

Me and Vi have agreed that putting it out in the open is the best thing to do right now, so...

Both me and Riggs are 1xBulletproof (Penn and Teller, or more specifically Teller but that doesn't seem to be important to this game, can do a very dangerous bullet catch trick).

I roleblocked Anxiety last night. Given two BPs and the SR kill, I'm strongly suspecting scum missed their kill

Rolefishing from GNR is scummy. Two town BPs also seems relatively unlikely, so a

GNR

lynch looks ok.

*swings sun around again*

VOTE: Anxiety

Also,

I'm partially claiming

. I roleblocked Anxiety last night. Given two BPs and the SR kill

G_N_R's vote for ace is pretty awful – based only on sotty voting ace after Vi did, G_N_R somehow deduces that sotty and ace are partners. And this vote is the only thing he's done in the game.

G_N_R

I

don't see any reason

to think he's scum.

@CC

: why are you voting

G_N_R?

In that case, I think that Vi should make a post in the

G_N_R QT saying exactly what she doesn't like about him there

- it seems important to her case on him. If G_N_R doesn't relay it, we lynch him.

*walks up to door*
*puts ear to door*

@Vi: 645 is pretty general. Is

G_N_R

posting much in there? His ignoring your attempts to get him to do stuff sounds much like his in-thread play unless he's also active. And your secret scumtell is... secret.

*sees wagon rolling toward me*
*pushes wagon as far offstage as possible*

[Vi]

In fact, seeing as GNR did not flip what we expected, I am not sure if I can trust you and think YOU might be the bp sk.

*produces gun again*
*aims for target across stage*
*fires gun*
*target is knocked over from force of bullet*

He didn't flip Penn or Teller.

*has Debonair Danny DiPietro come onstage with real-life Mafia godmother*
*lets Debonair Danny DiPietro introduce me to her and vice versa*
*shakes hand with godmother*
*goes to live in my house neighboring the godmother's*

*raises hands, palms up*
*objecting look*

GNR isn't Teller? Surprising. Any idea why, Vi?

In fact, seeing as GNR did not flip what we expected, I am not sure if I can trust you and think YOU might be the bp sk.

No one has yet commented on GNR not being Penn? And no one CCed GNR's Penn claim. Doesn't anyone at all find it suspicious that we have a Teller and no Penn? This certainly opens the possibility of Vi's post restriction not being due to Tellerness, imo.

*herds everyone except these three people offstage*
*points stage's pyrotechnic flamethrowers at these three people*
*presses button*

[Amrun]

Inconsistent suspicions... Yes, I can see that. I understand that.

Hmmmmmmmm.

VOTE: fishy

Okay, Vi. We'll see.

[Junpei]

Vote: Fishy

So you blocked Salurus because you thought he might be scum? Why not block Anxiety again whom you supposedly caught before? The only thing in your ISO indicative of this is a 'lurker scum' tag on Saulres. Is that all that swayed your RB off of someone whom you seemed to have RB'd? I'll await your response to Vi's case.

[4nxi3ty]

vi, can i get a summary of rigg's qt for both day one and day two?

[saulres]

VOTE: Anxiety

Also,

I'm partially claiming

. I roleblocked

Anxiety

last night. Given two BPs and the SR kill, I'm strongly suspecting scum missed their kill last night - I doubt we only have one kill, and I doubt the scum would shoot SR. Me blocking Anxiety isn't the only explanation for a missed kill - Vi being shot at by

a scumteam not including GNR

is the other obvious one - but it's certainly one explanation, and that makes him more likely scum.

It also makes him a much better lynch than GNR. Because if GNR is scum, then scum wouldn't shoot at Vi (or indeed GNR)

, and so we need another explanation for a missed kill.

*sees wagon rolling toward me*
*catches wagon*
*pushes wagon in direction other than its original direction*

fishy sees wagon gaining momentum so he pushes it towards me.

*lurks*

*nods*

fishy has been lurking since than.

this is only my interpretation so it would be nice if vi could confirm.

*shakes hand briefly*
*nods*

Oh! Vi, I think this is where the confusion stems in trying to read you. For me, at least, I've seen on other forums anything between *'s indicating actions, to be indicating actions the

poster

is taking. Your confirmation of 4nxi3ty's reads here mean that your uses of *'s after quotes is to indicate what the person you're

quoting

was doing. That's a major disconnect in our interpretations, so if that's the case I think I'm going to have to go back and reread everything you posted, and it's going to be a lot easier to understand you going forward.

I blocked saulres last night, because I thought he might be scum.

Then why didn't you vote for me when no kills happened?

[4nxi3ty]

you know whats really funny, everyone has been ignoring sylvia browne's flavor... hmmm...

[saulres]

What, that she's a convicted criminal and pretend magician? Flavor seems to fit right in with the flip.

[Crab Canon]

Fishy - why didn't you vote salures? Why are you agreeing that Vi's points against you are valid when you know they aren't true?

Neither head of Crab Cannon cares for that response.

[Fishythefish]

@CC: I can see why scum might play how I did in the position I was in. No point denying it - I definitely did something that could have derailed the GNR wagon. That's not why I did it, and I think my town motives for it were sensible, but clearly it's not unreasonable to think I'm more likely scum based on that. It's like if I was a vig and I got tracked to shooting a townie - I wouldn't say "scum don't shoot townies", I'd say "vigs also shoot townies, and here's why I shot him".

I'm not understanding all the Vi accusations very well here. I'll respond to what I can.

You all assemble the next day outside the Magic Castle and there’s a body lying face down in the grass outside. One of you with a strong stomach rolls the corpse over and the majority of you retch as the body has a large crater in their chest and their heart has been removed. You slowly scan up to their face to find…

sottyrulez –

Criss Angel had his heart removed N1

You really need to find out who is behind this and stop them.

I roleblocked Anxiety last night.

*swings orange circle around twice*

Me and Vi have agreed that putting it out in the open is the best thing to do right now, so...

Both me and Riggs are 1xBulletproof (Penn and Teller, or more specifically Teller but that doesn't seem to be important to this game, can do a very dangerous bullet catch trick).

I roleblocked Anxiety last night. Given two BPs and the SR kill, I'm strongly suspecting scum missed their kill

Rolefishing from GNR is scummy. Two town BPs also seems relatively unlikely, so a

GNR

lynch looks ok.

*swings sun around again*

VOTE: Anxiety

Also,

I'm partially claiming

. I roleblocked Anxiety last night. Given two BPs and the SR kill

G_N_R's vote for ace is pretty awful – based only on sotty voting ace after Vi did, G_N_R somehow deduces that sotty and ace are partners. And this vote is the only thing he's done in the game.

G_N_R

I

don't see any reason

to think he's scum.

@CC

: why are you voting

G_N_R?

In that case, I think that Vi should make a post in the

G_N_R QT saying exactly what she doesn't like about him there

- it seems important to her case on him. If G_N_R doesn't relay it, we lynch him.

*walks up to door*
*puts ear to door*

@Vi: 645 is pretty general. Is

G_N_R

posting much in there? His ignoring your attempts to get him to do stuff sounds much like his in-thread play unless he's also active. And your secret scumtell is... secret.

*sees wagon rolling toward me*
*pushes wagon as far offstage as possible*

At the time of 754, I was deciding whether to claim. Your/ace's 767 is what changed my mind - I think because it convinced me that one killing role was unlikely. Hence the change in 769.

373 to 649 - meh. I forgot something I'd thought about GNR after a week. It wasn't a strong scumread. When you posted against him, it was very much based on the QT stuff, and I think wanting to know what it was was quite sensible. Up until the claim, I think my play would actually have been pretty unlikely from a scumpartner of GNR - who the hell flip-flops and questions every scumread on their newb partner? Anyone who's played with me before should expect I wouldn't be that stupid. Inconsistencies like this just aren't scummy, and particularly aren't typical of the carefully managed interactions that scum have with their partners.

The *walks up to door* bit I don't understand at all. If you're saying I wanted to know why you were going after GNR - yes! I did!

The deflecting wagon bit - yes, certainly what I did could have deflected the wagon. I'm not arguing against that point. What I'm saying is that the protown explanation of my behaviour perfectly sensible. And, in fact, true.

Re: who I blocked last night. If Anxiety was scum, he wasn't going to try to kill again, so why would I block him? saul was a lingering scumread of mine, and reading him I thought he looked like a decent guess at a GNR partner, with having GNR sitting at "second scum" yesterday.

On not voting saulres; I just haven't had time to think the situation through. And yeah, I think I will
VOTE: saulres
We're looking for at least one missed kill last night. Anyone who got roleblocked has to be a fairly serious suspect.

[Crab Canon]

Ok, can you clarify for me which you think is more likely now:

Scum team

or

Scum team + SK

[Fishythefish]

I honestly don't know.

Points for scum team: we've missed at least one kill, but if there's a sk we've missed at least 3, and that's a lot.
Points for both: Two BPs, including a scum one. That suggests there should be a decent amount of killing power. sotty looks like a scumhunting kill.

It's not very important to saulres's alignment. Either way, getting blocked when a kill is missed is a serious scumtell.

[saulres]

Okay. I've been debating when to do this for quite some time now. The latest round of conversations, especially with the death of bulletproof scum, has me thinking that now's the right time, so we can turn our attention to scumhunting instead of setup speculation. I think I'm not going to get anything more useful out of anybody at this point.

With only 1 kill out of 4 chances, I don't think there's a SK. I think we have (possibly impotent?) scum, and we have a town vig. Me.

In both those finished ones I was

town.

Vi -- g

reat job!

I killed Sotty on N1 because I thought he was scum.

I

nstead of trying to find scum, we got

V

i and ace suddenly looking for a vig.

I

thought, "

G

ee that's odd.

G

oing for a power role solely because only one person was killed?

E

very townie would be assuming a scum-hit.

D

oing something different is a sign of additional knowledge, and who would have that knowledge?

S

cum, who saw a hit go through they didn't place."

R

ealizing that there's

Last night my kill didn't go through, and so I was expecting Fishy to say he blocked me, and he did.

I didn't want to come out before for a couple of reasons.

One, I was trying to look for scumslips when they realized their N1 kill didn't go through but someone died anyway. I was looking for someone saying something like "That's an odd choice" or anything else which would tip off that they were scum who didn't see their kill go through. The closest I got was Vi and Ace looking for a non-scum killer, and that's why I was pushing them so hard for information yesterday. I put together what I thought was a decent argument against them and targetted Ace last night, in the spoiler I'll show that argument because it still may be valid, and for full exposure.

Two, I'm Siegfried Fischbacher, of Siegfried and Roy. My role PM suggests that I don't have full control over my tiger and so I was thinking that Roy is out there and scum, and so I was hoping to get a tell to that effect, such as a tiger attack I didn't order. But I don't think that's the case any more: 1)The tiger did what I asked it to on N1, 2) The tiger did nothing last night and there's a block claim on me, and 3) We have a Teller without a Penn, so I'm thinking Roy's still injured and not in the game after all.

Note that I'm not saying the block clears Fishy, though. There's some good chances he's a scum-roleblocker.

Anyway, here's my thinking for last night's attack on Ace.

Spoiler: My Night 2 Montecore attack

VI in 642 says she "is V/LA today". She makes no more posts onsite for over 10 hours.

During those 10 hours, Ace posts 645 where he reveals what VI wrote. Included in this is this line from Vi: "There is actually one big thing in the QT that sets off alarms, aside from his continued ignorance of my constant pleas for him to say something, anything that looks like scumhunting. With that said, I'd like to keep that to myself for right now." This is his first site-wide post of the day, so it's reasonable to assume he got caught up on their QT while Vi was out, and that Vi didn't tell Ace what she was thinking.

HOWEVER, at ace's following posts in the game thread, it becomes clear that he

does

know what the objection is. Although he doesn't claim that he does until after he's looked for a PR, which comes chronologically after Vi returns to the site. And his terminology -- "

Now

that Vi has told me the whole story..." It doesn't add up. That's a slip.


Further evidence against Ace:

In 249 he gives tons of extensive reads, and ends with his analysis of now-confirmed scum GNR by saying, basically, "I have a headache so I don't want to try to read him."

And in 350, which happened on Day 1 before he said he was in a neighborhood with Vi, he said "I can generally translate Vi if we need someone to do that." I read that now as "I'm in a QT with Vi so can translate if needed."

Combine all this with the whole Vi story about GNR coming out only after the scum saw a kill they didn't order, and I'm 95% sure Ace and Vi are scum. Vi's claim of bulletproof might be to force us to lynch her during the day, and I'm okay with that.

Send the tiger after Ace.

This thinking may still be legit, but it was put to pause because Ace no longer claims the ability to speak with Vi. I would have thought they'd want to continue that charade for the rest of the game now that they outed GNR.

[Crab Canon]

your tiger rips out people's hearts?

[Crab Canon]

also, why did you crumb like 10 pages after the start of the day?