Prozacs Basic Theme 3 - GAME OVER

[chkflip]

This playerlist intimidates the shit out of me.

Currently working on NKA. "Shot" is obviously the mafia, the others have to be a Serial Killer I think. The flavor doesn't really read vig to me. Which could only mean 2 mafia and 1 SK given our numbers.

I'm the obvious lynch due to my meek and pathetic postings, but I'm really not trying to dredge through these fifty pages without taking a lot of things into consideration.

VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

[StrangerCoug]

I still think lynching chkflip is the answer, but Mastermind of Sin might be doable as well, especially since he doesn't have the best of cases on me and admitted that I'm "easy".

Why aren't you easy? Your main scumhunting has come from the stuff with DX, and your vote jumping, espeically early with regards to elli and xvart, seems like distancing.

I mean "easy" as a disparaging term. Scum would rather not lynch their own and if there is a way for them to get out of it, they will. They will only put in as much effort as we make them. If it doesn't take much work to tie a rope around my neck yet I flip town, it will reflect poorly on the people who pushed my lynch, hence why I consider Mastermind of Sin calling me an easy lynch scummy.

[Porochaz]

Prods going out, will do a votecount tomorrow.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I wish I was as certain of my cases here as I was there. This game is really going nowhere.

As for people thinking I'm scummy, that seems to happen every single game. As long as they don't lynch me for it, I'm fine. It's really amazing to see that I get lynched in games where no cases are made, and I'm not lynched in games where cases form the basis. Cases catch myko scum, using gut gets myko lynched pretty much every single game. Hoopla says I'm stretching to conclusions, she's probably the best one to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Stretching to conclusions I might be, but I do catch scum with it now and then and it always makes sense. To me at least, and to a good reader too.

Just take that big post by MoS. I really dislike it, even forgetting about scooby's and MoS's play beforehand. And I'll tell you why:

In a long game, scum have a problem compared to a short game: at some point they ran out of their targets, either because the town finds your target to by townie, or they got lynched already. In short, you need some new goals. For town, this means getting reads from posts. For scum this is harder to fake, so what is the ideal solution? A reread. A cold hard analysis which gives a set of lynch targets automatically. So, straight at the start of the day, after MoS nightkilled banshee and he had thought about the goals next day and realised he didn't know exactly where to go, he posted a bandwagon analysis. And I don't have to tell you how they can be manipulated by scum, because bandwagon analysis is such a crude way of scumhunting, as long as you are only looking at placement on the wagon. Scum are countering to that already for a long time. So MoS is looking very brilliantly scumhunting with his analysis and subsequent questions, but in fact he has just given himself a set of targets, and further bases on that post a few other posts asking questions to look active.

want to know why he just asks them to look active? Just check what his reactions on the answers are: they aren't there.

MoS states that he could have gone for an easy mislynch like SC or chkflip. I ask you, who wants to lynch SC after fate called him town based on meta? Who thinks chkflip is a good choice after he so bluntly disagreed with the direction I was taking, showing pure paranoia while the town considered me townie? Those aren't easy mislynches at all, and I honestly don't see any reason to pursue either.

TL;DR you really need to be on the MoS wagon.

Still on V/LA right now, but my first reaction to this is the absurdity of not taking into account the fact that I'm a replacement into this game that has not read this game through all the way, so the #1 best way for me to scumhunt at this point is to go back and look at trends in this game, since I'm not familiar with everything that has happened.

Additionally, there's no way in hell I would have killed Banshee, he was actually a decent lynch target. If I was scum I would have killed Bunnylover or myko. I see what you did there, though, trying to attribute the nightkill to me as if it was already a given. Sneaky.

Interesting shift here by myko/chkflip, though. I need to go back and look at their connections, I'm kinda surprised to see myko defending chkflip all of a sudden.

On a somewhat out-of-game note, if you are scum myko, I commend you for trying to take me on head to head. Sure, the scooby VI thing gives you an easy way to base your case, but it's still commendable that you aren't taking the easy way out by going after someone who has actually done something verifiable as scummy during the course of this game.

[mykonian]

I wish I was as certain of my cases here as I was there. This game is really going nowhere.

As for people thinking I'm scummy, that seems to happen every single game. As long as they don't lynch me for it, I'm fine. It's really amazing to see that I get lynched in games where no cases are made, and I'm not lynched in games where cases form the basis. Cases catch myko scum, using gut gets myko lynched pretty much every single game. Hoopla says I'm stretching to conclusions, she's probably the best one to tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Stretching to conclusions I might be, but I do catch scum with it now and then and it always makes sense. To me at least, and to a good reader too.

Just take that big post by MoS. I really dislike it, even forgetting about scooby's and MoS's play beforehand. And I'll tell you why:

In a long game, scum have a problem compared to a short game: at some point they ran out of their targets, either because the town finds your target to by townie, or they got lynched already. In short, you need some new goals. For town, this means getting reads from posts. For scum this is harder to fake, so what is the ideal solution? A reread. A cold hard analysis which gives a set of lynch targets automatically. So, straight at the start of the day, after MoS nightkilled banshee and he had thought about the goals next day and realised he didn't know exactly where to go, he posted a bandwagon analysis. And I don't have to tell you how they can be manipulated by scum, because bandwagon analysis is such a crude way of scumhunting, as long as you are only looking at placement on the wagon. Scum are countering to that already for a long time. So MoS is looking very brilliantly scumhunting with his analysis and subsequent questions, but in fact he has just given himself a set of targets, and further bases on that post a few other posts asking questions to look active.

want to know why he just asks them to look active? Just check what his reactions on the answers are: they aren't there.

MoS states that he could have gone for an easy mislynch like SC or chkflip. I ask you, who wants to lynch SC after fate called him town based on meta? Who thinks chkflip is a good choice after he so bluntly disagreed with the direction I was taking, showing pure paranoia while the town considered me townie? Those aren't easy mislynches at all, and I honestly don't see any reason to pursue either.

TL;DR you really need to be on the MoS wagon.

Still on V/LA right now, but my first reaction to this is the absurdity of not taking into account the fact that I'm a replacement into this game that has not read this game through all the way, so the #1 best way for me to scumhunt at this point is to go back and look at trends in this game, since I'm not familiar with everything that has happened.

Additionally, there's no way in hell I would have killed Banshee, he was actually a decent lynch target. If I was scum I would have killed Bunnylover or myko. I see what you did there, though, trying to attribute the nightkill to me as if it was already a given. Sneaky.

Interesting shift here by myko/chkflip, though. I need to go back and look at their connections, I'm kinda surprised to see myko defending chkflip all of a sudden.

On a somewhat out-of-game note, if you are scum myko, I commend you for trying to take me on head to head. Sure, the scooby VI thing gives you an easy way to base your case, but it's still commendable that you aren't taking the easy way out by going after someone who has actually done something verifiable as scummy during the course of this game.

You seem to miss that the key point is that you do such a large analysis right at the start of the day. Town can do it at any point. Scum do it at the start of the day to get targets for a mislynch.

The fact that you have problems with me thinking chkflip is odd to me. There wouldn't be any sane scum who would try to lynch me yesterday. It's just going to make you look bad. However, I did my share of leading and poking, and I can totally see a town be paranoid about that, since it's quite out of his control. Chkflip voting me doesn't at all make that I have to think chkflip scum.

[Porochaz]

chkflip - 2 - Nocmen, SC
MoS - 2 - Myko, chkflp

Not Voting - 4 - MoS, dramonic, Katsuki, Bunnylover

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

10 days to deadline I think

[StrangerCoug]

Additionally, there's no way in hell I would have killed Banshee, he was actually a decent lynch target. If I was scum I would have killed Bunnylover or myko.

Can you say WIFOM?

UNVOTE: chkflip
VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

I personally think Bunnylover is still on the scummy side, but beside my point.

[dramonic]

not sure i get the MoS hatred.

[mykonian]

but lets be honest, you aren't sure you get anything in this game, since you are lurking scum who doesn't bother to follow the thread. Just bus your buddy while it doesn't look too bad.

[Mastermind of Sin]

You seem to miss that the key point is that you do such a large analysis right at the start of the day. Town can do it at any point. Scum do it at the start of the day to get targets for a mislynch.

When else was I supposed to do it? Why the hell would I delay it to post it in the middle of the day? That doesn't even make sense.

The fact that you have problems with me thinking chkflip is odd to me. There wouldn't be any sane scum who would try to lynch me yesterday. It's just going to make you look bad. However, I did my share of leading and poking, and I can totally see a town be paranoid about that, since it's quite out of his control. Chkflip voting me doesn't at all make that I have to think chkflip scum.

Wait, so you think chkflip is town because he was paranoid about you, but you completely ignore the fact that he just parked his vote on you until he could hop onto the Jakobvtownwagon without any reasoning? He even TOLD us that he thought Jak was town and voted to lynch him ANYWAY! And you don't find that suspicious AT ALL!?

Additionally, there's no way in hell I would have killed Banshee, he was actually a decent lynch target. If I was scum I would have killed Bunnylover or myko.

Can you say WIFOM?

UNVOTE: chkflip
VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

I personally think Bunnylover is still on the scummy side, but beside my point.

1) Can you say OMGUS?
2) Everything in this game is WIFOM. That's the whole point of mafia. You can't just call "WIFOM" and use that as your vote reasoning. That shit is so 2005. Present us with a legitimate argument as to why I would have killed Banshee specifically, otherwise GTFO.

[mykonian]

You seem to miss that the key point is that you do such a large analysis right at the start of the day. Town can do it at any point. Scum do it at the start of the day to get targets for a mislynch.

When else was I supposed to do it? Why the hell would I delay it to post it in the middle of the day? That doesn't even make sense.

The fact that you have problems with me thinking chkflip is odd to me. There wouldn't be any sane scum who would try to lynch me yesterday. It's just going to make you look bad. However, I did my share of leading and poking, and I can totally see a town be paranoid about that, since it's quite out of his control. Chkflip voting me doesn't at all make that I have to think chkflip scum.

Wait, so you think chkflip is town because he was paranoid about you, but you completely ignore the fact that he just parked his vote on you until he could hop onto the Jakobvtownwagon without any reasoning? He even TOLD us that he thought Jak was town and voted to lynch him ANYWAY! And you don't find that suspicious AT ALL!?

Why would scum ever do something that blatantly logically wrong? Scum do like to point out inconsistencies, town happen to care less about them. They argue easily, and they don't catch scum.

So no, not getting scumvibes for chkflip.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Scum do that because they like to push mislynches through. Letting them get away with it is how towns lose.

Town never has a reason to lynch people they think are town.

[mykonian]

Scum do that because they like to push mislynches through. Letting them get away with it is how towns lose.

Town never has a reason to lynch people they think are town.

Nor do scum have a reason to vote a top town player. It's just going to look bad.

And I can totally see why while rereading he decided to change his read. Town are allowed to change their read.

Why no vote on chkflip if you are so eager to make sure I don't have a townread on him? You aren't pushing for his lynch, and you react on the fact that I call chkflip town.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Scum do that because they like to push mislynches through. Letting them get away with it is how towns lose.

Town never has a reason to lynch people they think are town.

Nor do scum have a reason to vote a top town player. It's just going to look bad.

You're not a top town player. You haven't been since Fate died. Stop fooling yourself.

And I can totally see why while rereading he decided to change his read. Town are allowed to change their read.

Why no vote on chkflip if you are so eager to make sure I don't have a townread on him? You aren't pushing for his lynch, and you react on the fact that I call chkflip town.

Because I'm not sure if chkflip is the best lynch yet, but your town read on him came out of left field. Unlike you, I'm not going to go guns blazing with my vote until I have more evidence to back it up. Unlike you, I'm not just hoping to push a lynch through before people realize that I don't have shit to show for it. And unlike you, I didn't suddenly start calling someone town after this:

Check the post stamps. If we take 48-72 hours from the post as the maximum 72 hours, Chkflip was two hours from prod range. That was a proddodge telling us it's all very difficult to read and "oh yeah myko is still scum".Lets not do that again chk, otherwise you earn my vote. The fact that you haven't passed D2 yet and have no conclusions from those days is not a sign that you are actually trying to reread.

When chkflip was voting you, you were all about how scummy he was for doing so and how he wasn't reading the game. Now that he's changed his mind, you suddenly think he's town

because he had been voting you

? Bullshit. You've tried to justify two completely opposite reads on chkflip using the EXACT same reasoning.

[mykonian]

Scum do that because they like to push mislynches through. Letting them get away with it is how towns lose.

Town never has a reason to lynch people they think are town.

Nor do scum have a reason to vote a top town player. It's just going to look bad.

You're not a top town player. You haven't been since Fate died. Stop fooling yourself.

See the reaction chkflip got when he voted me. I think there were two or three posts saying "don't be so silly". That's plenty for me to say that it would be an idiotic scummove.

And I can totally see why while rereading he decided to change his read. Town are allowed to change their read.

Why no vote on chkflip if you are so eager to make sure I don't have a townread on him? You aren't pushing for his lynch, and you react on the fact that I call chkflip town.

Because I'm not sure if chkflip is the best lynch yet, but your town read on him came out of left field. Unlike you, I'm not going to go guns blazing with my vote until I have more evidence to back it up. Unlike you, I'm not just hoping to push a lynch through before people realize that I don't have shit to show for it.

Uhm, no. You don't feel like moving your vote because you hardly have a decent case on him, and you are just going to argue against a townread that doesn't suit you since chkflip was apparently on your "going to mislynch" list for that thejak vote.

And unlike you, I didn't suddenly start calling someone town after this:

Check the post stamps. If we take 48-72 hours from the post as the maximum 72 hours, Chkflip was two hours from prod range. That was a proddodge telling us it's all very difficult to read and "oh yeah myko is still scum".Lets not do that again chk, otherwise you earn my vote. The fact that you haven't passed D2 yet and have no conclusions from those days is not a sign that you are actually trying to reread.

When chkflip was voting you, you were all about how scummy he was for doing so and how he wasn't reading the game. Now that he's changed his mind, you suddenly think he's town

because he had been voting you

? Bullshit. You've tried to justify two completely opposite reads on chkflip using the EXACT same reasoning.

Exactly. The vote on me was silly. Then chkflip stopped being silly and made the right vote. I then thought he was town. You are getting quite determined at arguing against this townread MoS. Are you sure you want to park your vote at SC, who isn't going to be lynched ever if you aren't going to try to get a bandwagon?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I wasn't aware I was voting StrangerCoug. Nice try, though.

[StrangerCoug]

You seem to miss that the key point is that you do such a large analysis right at the start of the day. Town can do it at any point. Scum do it at the start of the day to get targets for a mislynch.

When else was I supposed to do it? Why the hell would I delay it to post it in the middle of the day? That doesn't even make sense.

The fact that you have problems with me thinking chkflip is odd to me. There wouldn't be any sane scum who would try to lynch me yesterday. It's just going to make you look bad. However, I did my share of leading and poking, and I can totally see a town be paranoid about that, since it's quite out of his control. Chkflip voting me doesn't at all make that I have to think chkflip scum.

Wait, so you think chkflip is town because he was paranoid about you, but you completely ignore the fact that he just parked his vote on you until he could hop onto the Jakobvtownwagon without any reasoning? He even TOLD us that he thought Jak was town and voted to lynch him ANYWAY! And you don't find that suspicious AT ALL!?

Additionally, there's no way in hell I would have killed Banshee, he was actually a decent lynch target. If I was scum I would have killed Bunnylover or myko.

Can you say WIFOM?

UNVOTE: chkflip
VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

I personally think Bunnylover is still on the scummy side, but beside my point.

1) Can you say OMGUS?

No, because that does not apply here. You're trying to stave off accusations that you killed Banshee by saying you'd go after Bunnylover or mykonian. You cannot defend yourself doing X by saying you would do Y instead (although, in this case, X is simply an unproven theory). Unless you can prove my case on you as illegitimate, I am not guilty of OMGUS.

2) Everything in this game is WIFOM. That's the whole point of mafia. You can't just call "WIFOM" and use that as your vote reasoning. That shit is so 2005. Present us with a legitimate argument as to why I would have killed Banshee specifically, otherwise GTFO.

I cannot present such an argument as that would require me to read your mind. For all I know, it's arbitrary. I can tell you why scum might not want to kill the obvious target, though: Doctors. Watchers. Scum feels like throwing a red herring. All of those, and probably a few more that aren't coming to my mind right now, are plausible reasons why you could have killed Banshee in lieu of Bunnylover or mykonian, but the operative phrase is "in lieu of".

[StrangerCoug]

I only meant to quote the part of MoS where he addresses me, but oh well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So basically you can't come up with any particular reason why *I* (as opposed to anyone else who might be scum) would have killed Banshee, but because I claimed that I didn't kill Banshee, you conclude I must have? That totally makes sense.

[Nocmen]

SC: Do you think this speculation, and that one line from MoS, makes him scummier than chk?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unofficial Vote Count:

chkflip - 1 - Nocmen
MoS - 3 - Myko, chkflp, SC

Not Voting - 4 - MoS, dramonic, Katsuki, Bunnylover

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

With dramonic and Nocmen checking in and not piling on my wagon, I'm less inclined to think they are scum at this point. (If we have 3 scum left, that is...)

Unfortunately, that doesn't give me a lot of insight between the two main scumgroups I'm looking at, so perhaps there is a different permutation at work.

[Katsuki]

VOTE: CHKFLIP

[StrangerCoug]

So basically you can't come up with any particular reason why *I* (as opposed to anyone else who might be scum) would have killed Banshee, but because I claimed that I didn't kill Banshee, you conclude I must have? That totally makes sense.

It's entirely possible that you didn't; there were two kills on Night 4, the person lynched Day 5 flipped non-vigilante town, and only one person was killed on Night 5. I can make heads and tails out of Banshee being vigged and we agree that you did not send a vig kill on her. However, your justification for not killing Banshee—that you would instead have killed other specific players if you were scum—doesn't sit all that well with me. To deny killing someone tells us little more than to deny being scum—the former says only that you did not vig that player that night, which does very little to narrow down the possibilities. To claim that you would've killed someone else as scum isn't of much use either: if we knew someone was going to get nightkilled, we'd take that into account. I lost The Sims 3 Mafia because a player was watching my SK target, a claimed cop.

I may have interpreted your request as an explanation of why you would kill Banshee as opposed to you killing someone else and not as opposed to someone else killing you, but I am still unable to answer without reading your mind. Stop being unreasonable.

[Bunnylover]

not sure i get the MoS hatred.

I'm on the side of this.
I had liked MoS wall post.
I like this person as scum though, just comes off scummy to me:

Vote: Chkflip

[Mastermind of Sin]

Let's not be hasty, guys. Chkflip is very possibly scum, even likely, but I think we're going to need a good understanding of who his scumbuddies might be to make sure that him being scum actually makes sense. Don't rush to lynch him before you tackle that dilemma.