Open 347: White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Quilford]

Oh snap, first.

VOTE: kondi2424

choo choo

[Quilford]

Three more, please.

[Quilford]

Oh hey kondi's trying to be helpful. He's definitely scum.

I'm serious.

[Quilford]

Okay, so... We're lynching kondi. You don't need to think too hard about it.

My experience with kondi!town is seeing him pop up after or just before he is prodded to post a defensive one liner and/or a vote for the biggest wagon. Reads? Nope. Content? Nope. This is not kondi!town.

Given that kondi is scum I find Equinox's jump off the wagon at L-1 with no reasoning suspicious. Care to explain?

[Quilford]

Linkage plzkthx

Who are you voting?

[Quilford]

Also, policy lynching Kondi is probably a bad idea since we're at mylo tomorrow if he's town.

What?

[Quilford]

i got a feeling and the feeling's new
now its a funny thing and it concerns you
it may seem like a hurry but its overdue
you see
i know we're only at our second date
but this time something tells me that i cannot wait
i'm not so good with words so let me tell it straight

FoS ScreamingHawk

bold tags make it preety

[Quilford]

Why not?

[Quilford]

Trekker your previous avi was prettier.

SleepyKrew and trekker I have really strong town reads on.

[Quilford]

VOTE: fatlikepig

language tell: 'reek'

[Quilford]

^ True.

[Quilford]

I think you'll find that scum never intentionally dodge questions.

[Quilford]

Because I still think it's you?

I'm not wondering why you're asking questions. I'm questioning why you think it necessary to accuse him of dodging your questions as if it were something he did with intent, and not out of forgetfulness.

[Quilford]

There's plenty of reasons why I think scum may be inclined to not answer questions, either because they can't, because their answers will be scummier than not answering, or because they think they can get away with ignoring minor questions.

In theory, these are all excellent reasons for scum not answering questions.

In reality, I think you'll find that scum are too afraid to intentionally, consistently dodge questions.

So your word choice in 'Stop dodging my questions, SH.' is questionable because you imply that he is in fact dodging them when that may not be the case.

And why don't you post which posts of mine you think of scummy instead of pretending that "choice of word" actually means anything in the context of my post?

This is the post in question:

Actually, never mind.
VOTE: Cross_Pollination

Minimal contribution, early posts reek of scum.

Minimal contribution is not necessarily a scumtell, and I think you're trying to make up for it -- and the fact that you're not going into why his early posts are so scummy (which is especially hypocritical considering what we're discussing right now; the fact that you explained later changes nothing) -- by using exaggerated language.

Other than that, the large majority of your posting is fluffy or defensive, and your cases are flimsy. I can't elaborate now, though.

[Quilford]

Equinox, tell me why you jumped off the kondi wagon.


Which reminds me, reads.
Equinox (null; slight lean scum)
Amrun (ditto Equinox)
SleepyKrew (town)
Nobody Special (null)
bvoigt (null)
DonJosh (null; slight lean scum)
Fruit Basket (leaning town maybe perhaps)
trekker (ditto Fruit)
fatlikepig (null; slight lean scum)
ScreamingHawk (leaning scum)
Cross_Pollination (null; slight lean scum)
kondi2424 (null; slight lean town)

So yeah too many scum/null reads

If you guys could kindly start being more obvtown that would be nice

[Quilford]

prodddoddddge

[Quilford]

Who?

[Quilford]

Hurrr.

I think DonJosh is scum.

VOTE: DonJosh

[Quilford]

How do people still think SH and CP are town?

I get this kind of premonition whenever I think about them being scum. It's kind of like when you're just casually browsing the game forums and you click on a game thread just to see how many mislynches the town has made or whether any interesting power roles have flipped or whether anyone's been modkilled and you look at the list of dead players and you see, like, the name of some derpy player lynched D1 like Maruchan or glowball and they're town and you think to yourself that they were probably lynched because they were derping around, not because they were actually particularly scummy.

[Quilford]

Quil, they aren't just derping around, they've both made blatant contradictions.

Do you know the feeling I'm talking about?

[Quilford]

Trekker, case on SK please?

ill respond when your avatar isn't my little pony, fyi.

so much this

[Quilford]

He's reminding me a lot of Modern Family Mafia .__.

DonJosh is still scum though so

[Quilford]

Quil, they aren't just derping around, they've both made blatant contradictions.

Do you know the feeling I'm talking about?

skrew

[Quilford]

answer the question

[Quilford]

DonJosh is a far better lynch than NS.

[Quilford]

7 posts in 17 pages.

Unexplained, wishy-washy reads.

Fluff.

A failed promise to re-read.

How does this not scream scum to you?

[Quilford]

No it's just a feeling I get in general, in the situation I described.

Like who?

[Quilford]

So apparently DonJosh's school days are 48 hours?

Votes for him, pronto.

[Quilford]

V/LA due to impending exams. Should be able to post enough to avoid replacement, but desperately looking for someone to hydra with me here nonetheless. Let me know if you know someone suitable!

[Quilford]

Semi V-LA from 2nd November - 10th due to exams.

Quill, thoughts on Kondi? Is he playing to his town meta?

No.

We should be!

No.

You know how DonJosh is getting by without any real cross-examination, just faint murmurs of disapproval? That's what scum do to fellow scum when there's a town lynch nearby!

It would take a good explanation before I believed any claim at this point.

Scum.

ScreamingHawk is literally confirmed town now.

No.

VOTE: NS

Dodgy reasoning abounds.

SH not conftown by any means. dj probably still scum, CP probably too.

Scum.

[Quilford]

yeah fat

why are you voting for NS?

[Quilford]

oh sh why so tunnel?

[Quilford]

V/LA due to impending exams. Should be able to post enough to avoid replacement, but desperately looking for someone to hydra with me here nonetheless. Let me know if you know someone suitable!

you need someone to hydra with you but signed up for a new game?

I always feel guilty about not confirming a pre-in.

Besides, it doesn't look like it'll start until after my exams so.

[Quilford]

We can lynch him.

[Quilford]

You know, I totally had a dream that NS was scum last night :P

[Quilford]

Quilford, you seem to believe that kondi2424 isn't playing to his town meta; why did you have kondi2424 as a "slight lean town" read earlier? What changed between posts 243 and 525?

SleepyKrew provided evidence to the contrary.

[Quilford]

Pidgey has arrived at his reads for all the wrong reasons.

More after I finish cramming.

[Quilford]

oh ho ho

Pidgey replaced kondi?

oh ho ho

[Quilford]

shhhh pidgey it's alright

look

you should take a look at my past games as town

[Quilford]

Twisted I'm not into the game at the moment and exams literally start tomorrow.

Why do you want to vote me apart from "This really isn't the quilford I enjoy playing with", which is the worst reasoning a player could ever use anyway?

[Quilford]

Oh my god, continue making broad statements with no evidence

"I'm voting you for being hardly pro-town at all this game whereas the old quilford knew how to hunt scum."
Hardly pro-town is my town meta. Check the recently completed Pick Your Poison Open in which I acted just like this.

[Quilford]

It's quite relevant that all these bad games have been happening so recently.

Twisted my play in Campaign Mafia is also quite reminiscent of here.

The only place I can think of that we've played other than that is Nomination, where I replaced in to a town slot.

Tell me otherwise? And look at the game.

[Quilford]

What is my town meta then?

[Quilford]

neruzian mafia?
royal mafia?

You just quoted two games in which I was town and playing exactly as I am now, especially Neruzian.

how can you not remember these. You shouldn't be using meta as a defence anyways if you're town. Pointing out your own meta is a moot defence

Check it: I never self meta as scum. That's right, I'm now confirmed town.

anyways my point is I feel you're coasting

duhhh

that's what I do when I'm town: check the two games you mentioned above

and I'm not prepared to vote anyone else at the moment except for donjosh

Do you think DonJosh and I are of the same alignment?

ninja: you at least try as town. I don't even get the impression that you're trying to be logical from half of your posts (posts 98, 141, 366 and 641 come to mind)

Like I said: exams.

[Quilford]

guys guys

I'm confirmed town.

No more shit about me, okay?

Also NS has posted online since the hammer but not here, so that's probably a good thing.

Wish me luck for exams today!

[Quilford]

one last point I'd like to make

some of you may have noticed quilford's odd obsession with being conf. town.
I have seen this in one game prior. In neither this or that game did I see much reason to view him as such but he did turn out to be town if that's anything to go by

evidence:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3336752
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3334077
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3338583
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3338477
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3338214

obsession?

no, good sir

I am merely trying to educate the masses

[Quilford]

What makes FLP's statement a slip?

[Quilford]

NS had explained that he was town. Pretty sure FLP just made a wording mistake.

Anyway, Day 1 mislynch! Just like I predicted.

[Quilford]

NS had explained that he was town. Pretty sure FLP just made a wording mistake.

yeah, but even NS admits he didn't explain it to the extent that it should be considered truth by the way he pointed out the slip :p

Aaaaare you being serious?

[Quilford]

VOTE: jerobbo

The people who are finding me scummy are scummy themselves. I'm confirmed town.

[Quilford]

VOTE: jerobbo

The people who are finding me scummy are scummy themselves. I'm confirmed town.

lawl, "DON'T TRY TO MAKE A CASE ON ME OR YOU'RE SCUM"

mmhmm. And why are you confirmed town, again?

do you find his statement scummy or just annoying? idk why you'd find it scummy tbh

i mean his self meta is valid, and i actually agree w/ it. the only time i've seen him do :stuff: as town was in that ooba game where he was unlucky not to get the uk/chamber hydra deaded. also my other head is back :D so he'll be posting when he catches up fully. he has exp. with quilford too and agrees fwiw

(p sure fat is kinda confirmed for the numbers mix-up and screaminghawk for not getting the set-up but anyway)

Hi, Faraday?

Believe it or not I am actually capable of doing :stuff: as town, I'm just not doing it right now because I'm really lazy and have exams to study for. Yes that sounds arrogant, conceited, whatever, but I should actually start being decent on Thursday if you can wait that long.

Also oh man chamber was so scum in that game.

[Quilford]

nope!

and of course i can wait forever and a day for you if need be

I'm 99% sure I know you and if I looked around MD quickly I would know who you are.

[Quilford]

@quilf: if you're just going to use the exam excuse to not offer anything then why not replace out?

because they end in two days? gosh, pay attention

something's interesting about jer's reads, can't quite put my finger on them but they seem like a mixture of annoying scummy reads and things that I notice a lot when I'm giving reads

as town

(not sure) like this

SleepyKrew actually posted a lot [...] but I really didn't notice [...] on my first read through. Not sure why this is? Low content/high volume posting?

and

I have this little feeling that Fruit Basket and Amrun may be staging their little discussions and voting for each other here as scum partners. No real evidence to back that up, just a feeling I get from their back and forth.

But I'm pretty sure that these kind of things are noticed both by town and scum, moreover when I'm giving reads as scum I tend to rely a lot on recent posts as reasoning -- especially as a replacement -- because I can understand their context better. Additionally, my reads as scum are usually one liners and I tend to leave my conclusions open. I can see both of these in jerobbo's reads list so I'm going to stay with my current vote.

Okay, [J] NK is still really weird no matter how I look at it. From what I can tell, his scumlist was bascially FB/bvoigt/Amrun by the end of the day, and he was going to look at Quil/DJ on top of that. Also had SH as a null-scum read, and was also going to reread him today.

Since there was no other reason to kill him, I'm guessing that some of the scum felt threatened by him and decided to off him on the chance that they would be exposed. I feel like that's a reaction that's more likely to come from newbscum though.

Pfft. [J] is obviously a confusion kill.

[Quilford]

Can you link me to some of your other games?

Sure you reference right through from post 117 to 848... but you mention a specific post before 726 _once_ (117).

[Quilford]

You mention six, actually.

Can I see previous play of yours?

[Quilford]

Can you link me to this forum?

[Quilford]

Yes.

[Quilford]

Especially newbscum who've seen it work for other players.

Plus it's something so obvious that the answer should be clear after about .5 seconds. Is there green in the Town Role PM?

[Quilford]

No there isn't.

[Quilford]

Actually the colour blue is used throughout both Role PMs.

[Quilford]

My theory is that scum isn't really coming under any heavy scrutiny at the moment so [J] made the perfect confusion kill.

[Quilford]

VOTE: bvoigt

More later.

[Quilford]

Ssssh. Things are coming, soonish. When I don't pass out from lack of sleep on the bus.

[Quilford]

okay okay guys!!!

reads. let's do them.

[Quilford]

Okay, so, first: I haven't been really enthusiastic for this game because it's filled with newbies who are using newbie scumtells on me. And it's stupid because this is the way I play as town (lazily, backseat driver). Sorry for my inactivity.

Without further ado...

Town (S to W)

bvoigt

(initially had a kind of inexplicable scumread on him but I've found myself sharing his reactions and thoughts, especially around the NS lynch and [J] hammer... moreover, I don't think a [J] kill makes sense coming from him)

Fruit Basket

(general reactions, tone, etc.)

SleepyKrew

(same as fruit basket. REALLY REALLY NEED TO META SK, SELF. NO FORGETTING)

Equinox

(i relate to him in my lurking and think we're both town because of it, but unlike me when he hasn't been lurking he's been providing good content. gut twitches a little because he wasn't killed night 1 and also because of his call for people to lynch him if he doesn't stop lurking, but he can stay town for now)

Null

Amrun

(defence of NS nullified by forgetting he's dead -- something I would think scum are more likely to do than town -- but general language tells (like those from FB conversations), and rageposting (#697) secure a spot on the townier side of null.)

Twistedspoon

(his opening post seemed like good ol' obvtown twisted, but all his posts past them have contained minimal scumhunting. i feel that he's just rehashing the information from his catchup post to give the illusion of content, especially when he's defending players ie amrun. his scumreads have also changed, but he hasn't explained why ie fatlikepig. plus his odd stance on me earlier on would put him on my scum list, but i got an inexplicable townish read on his predecessor, so he can just be null leaning scum for now)

jerobbo

(didn't like DonJosh, don't like him, but my gut is screaming that I'm wrong, so jerobbo can sit on the scum/null chair)

fatlikepig

(oh shit not another null read goshdarnit -- i have meta on this guy but can't decide whether he's conforming to it or not. note to self: check out fat's newbie games)

Scum (S to W)

pidgey

(just total raw newb here, using typical newb scumtells against me -- and i am a very easy target for newbs. one of the reasons i really lost interest in this game, tbh. the fact that his reads have changed very little worries me)

ScreamingHawk

(post rate dropped heavily after the NS lynch... his blind tunnelling on it plus general absence around the lynch itself gives me bad vibes.)



Oshi-- all my scum reads are newbs. Not sure whether I'm doin' it wrong or not.
VOTE: ScreamingHawk

[Quilford]

Town (S to W)

bvoigt

... moreover, I don't think a [J] kill makes sense coming from him)

yeah, did you even read the thread before you walked in here quilford?

I wanna look into Quil/FB/Bvoigt/DJ's slot toMorrow most liiiiikely. Same with SH but I'm probably gonna have to re-read that slot sometime.

Vote: Amrun

Him/Bvoigt/NS can go.

Dislike bvoigt. I haven't seen a single post I really care for that doesn't give me a read that isn't null/scummy. He seems to just be skating along doing nothing and trying to just blend in.

yeah, and you say BV had no reason did kill [J]?

Did

you

read those posts? They give little reason for the bvoigt scumread and [J] was getting a lot of flak for his hammer on NS. I don't particularly think a [J] kill makes sense coming from anyone (hence why I said I thought it was a confusion (or confused) kill in one of my earliest posts at the start of the day).

You have some **** nerve to come here and say my play has been **** when you can't even read a thread for yourself.

you say I've done no zarking analysis.

You stupid idiot, you think

I

can't read? When did I say this? If you'd like to address

specific

problems with my read of you (which you haven't), then go ahead. But don't put words into my mouth.

You're Unreasonable, and I honestly am too outraged to point out the swiss chesse holes in the rest of your post!

Swiss cheese holes? Me being unreasonable? How about your cherry picking from one read in my post to discredit the rest of my reads, you hypocrite? Take a step back and deflate your ego.

my last scum can be quilford then. His reads are an absolute joke. He clearly hasn't read the thread at all after voting SH (the obvtown), defending his buddy BV to the point where it's an utter lie and using absolute nonsense to justify his the other half of his reads before saying I can't analyse

and that should suit the critics of the 'all scum on wagon' idea

I like this post.
Anyone

against

the Quil lynch at this point? If so why so? And who would you prefer? I'd like to see our potential targets for the day narrowed down.

This is what you do. You mope around until you find a target for the day and then you lock in on them and you blindly tunnel them for the rest of the day. You explain your inactivity because you've been having exams, fine, whatever. I HAVE TOO. You're being a hypocrite. And I didn't mislynch Nobody Special Day 1.

Amrun, can you please explain why ScreamingHawk is town. I literally don't know how.

[Quilford]

Twisted, you're also making me out to be some powerful force. The only game where I have played well with you in it was Nomination Mafia, but 1) I replaced in 2) the playerlist was completely different.

In all the other games where I have played with you I have acted very similarly to how I have here. Consider Neruzian mafia and Royal mafia.

[Quilford]

Anyway, i find it interesting that quil had a "Town meta read" on kondi, and is now attacking me because i'm using "obvious scumtells against him". Perhaps you are that obviously scummy?

You're using newbie scumtells against me and have been ever since your first post here, like:
"But the fact that not many people have gone against Quil" which seems to say that people not pressuring me means I'm scum
"the fact that he has played the game safely, mostly echoing other players" haven't provided any evidence for this nugget
"When town players play it safe, they get called out a lot. When the scum does it, its hard for the town to point this out." Complete and utter bullshit. If I am scum I have two buddies. That's two less people who can call me out, and some of them might anyway, to bus me or whatever.
"His number 3 post in the game and already wants to lynch kondi/me for some reason" ... I wanted to policy lynch kondi, as did the other six or so people who were voting for him.
"Quil hasnt done a lot of what is pro town (looking for scum, etc), just like NS. This is why I said the two are playing a lot like each other" NS was town. Have you learnt from your mistakes?

These are all scumtells that newbies learn to drop after their first few games.

Also, on a side note, some of you guys say he is town because he is playing to his town meta... What's his town meta like? Not play the game at all? So if I join another game and quil joins too and he is semi active, that means he is scum?

I've explained multiple times why I haven't been active. I've had the pressure of exams, I haven't enjoyed this game, and then I get players like you being derps and it all combines together.

[Quilford]

OK GUYS. Most games I play (IRL) the dead don't get flipped and so you don't learn roles until game over. I'm obviously unfamiliar with this game type. And since jerobbo made a read on a dead player (why would you do this?), I was unsure and thought I should get clarification.

Yeah, okay this is pretty convincing. I only remember reading about him asking for claims.

I think I'm gonna replace out.

[Quilford]

>__>

Regardless of whether or not you don't like it when people self-meta, it's still valid. You know, I really hate doing it too, so I really only reserve it for when people are really on my back, because it's usually fairly convincing.

[Quilford]

I'm not replacing out, that would be terrible form.

Twisted link me to games where you've suggested lynching off a town wagon before and I'll join you on fatlikepig or SK.

[Quilford]

VOTE: bvoigt

recent posts are opportunistic, i want a death at deadline, his reads are terrible and supported by flimsy reasoning, his defence to the points against him is also flimsy...

i love being the hammer vote, it ensures that no matter what the lynchee flips i will be under heavy scrutiny tomorrow

[Quilford]

Quilford and Jerrobo will switch. That's 6. FLASHWAGON GET.

Nawww it has to be bvoigt now.

massive townread on jerobbo for this

[Quilford]

[J] suspected me: I was planning to vote [J] on Day 2, IIRC. So if I was scum, she was my main mislynch target, and I would not have killed her. I know this is WIFOM, but it makes perfect sense from my eyes.

...sounds really genuine.

Really? It sounds like exactly the opposite to me.

[Quilford]

I'm bussing him.

[Quilford]

>__>


<__<

[Quilford]

This game.

VOTE: Equinox

[Quilford]

Also for me his game has been scummy overall, but some say he's town dunno why.

You joined on October 31st, and replaced into this game on the very next day. I'm not sure what Mafia experience you've had before now, but I think you're missing a sizeable chunk of important experience with this site by not first playing a Newbie game and being exposed to the different ways people way and how this doesn't correlate to alignment.

[Quilford]

I'm going to be replaced by a hydra of myself and kuribo, if that's all right, Morthas.

[Quilford]

The hydra is called Hammer Bros.