Imperial Intrigue (Endgame, OUT OF NOWHERE)

[EtherealCookie]

*VI.

[MattP]

@mbstoken:

You say you've played with MattP before. If these games have completed, can you link them please?

I'd provide you with links myself, but the forum requires you register to see them.

[kdowns]

UNVOTE:

[PeregrineV]

Vezok is tied to one of the scum, as was pointed out earlier.
He questioned Shi Ki as a cop and said that he could be lying to get SC killed. If two mafia teams are possible and SC is in one of them (which I believe) then Vezok is highly scummy for his defense of SC.

I generally don' think questioning the cop is scummy, but it does depend on how it is done. I will investigate.

@PeregrineV:

Why do you quote the setup speculation out ofmy post where I call you scum, but not respond to the part where I actually call you scum?

Well, because
1. I'm not scum.
2. Not worth my time defending a single vote for whatever reason when I could be re-reading the thread.
But, since you did follow-up with me, I'll go see what you said real fast and respond.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: PeregrineV

Nothing that he's done or said (which isn't a lot) has seemed town-motivated.

This was your first mention, but since it's your opinion and it differs from mine, meh.

I'm suspicious of those who jumped onto StrangerCoug's lynch D2 while going, "lolcopreport": MacDougall (especially with #809 and #812), PeregrineV, Agar, Nero Cain (especially with #843), EtherealCookie. There be bussers in them thar hills. Money is on PeregrineV and Agar.

AGar is scum.
Peregrine is scum.

Here you think I'm bussing Stranger, but not sure what a "lolcopreport" is. I did vote Stranger for the cop result, but think that was pretty evident.
Otherwise, you don't say why you think I'm scum, just that you think I am with AGar.

[AGar]

What I see from the defense of MacDougall :

• He is trying to deflect the lynch unto vezokpiraka. That means he thinks he is valuable than vezokpiraka. He is either a town PR, or a scum.
  
• He is using the frustration argument, one I know perfectly. Whereas most of the time, it is used by frustrated townies, it is a general appeal to emotion. It is not an argument but a testimony of weakness.
  
• Whereas he seems to like walls, he isn't prone to quote himself. When you speak the truth, you can quote yourself easily. When you are not ...

What do you think of his last point in #967, and the flaws I pointed out in #968.

Oh and lolmaguausobadatthissticktobeingdaysk.

Ok.

Daykill: AGar

Before you die, kindly explain where you see PeregrineV as town, because I'm not seeing it, whereas I am seeing MacDougall town. Especially in light of your (correct) vezokpiraka-playing-as-VI-does-not-imply mafia, but you don't apply that same standard to MacDougall even though it's obvious you should.

Peregrine seems to be putting honest effort in. Peregrine is putting out logical thoughts that are easy to follow. This is one of the biggest town-tells out there - you can follow from Point A to Point B what they're thinking and why.

MacDougall as VI? I'm afraid you're confusing caught rookie scum with VI. VI isn't something you establish after one game. You know this. You don't just say "Oh wow, this guy is bad, he's a VI." Vezok plays in a similar manner every single game. If you don't know how to handle VI players by now, that's pretty bad. It's the same for all of them - unless they are acting outrightly scummy in a way that is different from their normal, subpar play, you leave them be and force scum to handle them or let them lead you to their scumbuddies - because they will be apparent after a period of time.

[MacDougall]

What I see from the defense of MacDougall :

• He is trying to deflect the lynch unto vezokpiraka. That means he thinks he is valuable than vezokpiraka. He is either a town PR, or a scum.
  
  
• He is using the frustration argument, one I know perfectly. Whereas most of the time, it is used by frustrated townies, it is a general appeal to emotion. It is not an argument but a testimony of weakness.
  
• Whereas he seems to like walls, he isn't prone to quote himself. When you speak the truth, you can quote yourself easily. When you are not ...

What do you think of his last point in #967, and the flaws I pointed out in #968.

Well I'm neither of these things. I am "deflecting" the lynch on Vezok because he's my best guess at scum. I'm not using any construct that you think you have a grasp on otolia. I'm not a mafia playing robot. Not everything I say is capable of being placed into a little box marked scum, or town. I am not purposefully using any "frustration argument", I am merely FRUSTRATED. Which, should realistically be the FIRST conclusion one comes to, when reading someone and saying "hey, this guy seems frustrated", but alas, you think I'm playing instead. Believe what's in front of you. Is that third argument even real? I haven't quoted myself because... why the hell would I? Show me one time you've quoted yourself in this thread Oto. No? Omg you are scum for sure.

As for you Agar, how does me giving up on arguing with you all of a sudden equate to "he definitely scum now". If you really think that, then you aren't as smart as you think you are. I legitimately have had enough of breaking down points with you because it gets me nowhere. You don't believe anything I say and furthermore you use my attempts at defense as new reasons to attack me so why would I bother?

Oh and lolmaguausobadatthissticktobeingdaysk.

Ok.

Daykill: AGar

Before you die, kindly explain where you see PeregrineV as town, because I'm not seeing it, whereas I am seeing MacDougall town. Especially in light of your (correct) vezokpiraka-playing-as-VI-does-not-imply mafia, but you don't apply that same standard to MacDougall even though it's obvious you should.

Peregrine seems to be putting honest effort in. Peregrine is putting out logical thoughts that are easy to follow. This is one of the biggest town-tells out there - you can follow from Point A to Point B what they're thinking and why.

MacDougall as VI? I'm afraid you're confusing caught rookie scum with VI. VI isn't something you establish after one game. You know this. You don't just say "Oh wow, this guy is bad, he's a VI." Vezok plays in a similar manner every single game. If you don't know how to handle VI players by now, that's pretty bad. It's the same for all of them - unless they are acting outrightly scummy in a way that is different from their normal, subpar play, you leave them be and force scum to handle them or let them lead you to their scumbuddies - because they will be apparent after a period of time.

If you think Peregrine is easier to understand than me then fine, but the difference in our diction and clarity is negligible and under no circumstances could you apply that argument to him, and not hold me to the same conditions, because, and I firmly believe this, everything I say/mean is obvious and clear, even possibly MORESO than Peregrine. I'm not speaking in code, I haven't been caught out lying. I could sit here and argue with you all day, because I'm right and you'll never crack me. Just because I don't have the patience/time/skill/ambition/commitment to do so, doesn't mean that you are right. Realistically You just didn't like the way I went about the Empking lynch. That's the only thing I've done that realistically could equate to me being lynched. My thoughts are logical and easy to follow, you just disagree with them.

And to continue, I don't believe I'm a VI. I'm new to the game as you play it but a VI I am not, and eventually I hope to be somewhat competent at the game. Even thought I'm not a VI in my mind, that doesn't mean that I'm caught rookie scum either. It's not like "bad player = caught rookie scum or VI" there's also the third option, which from my limited experience tends to end up being the most likely, which is "accused rookie townie". So, wise guy, I'm afraid, YOU are mistaking "accused rookie townie" with "caught rookie scum".

Anywho... what's the deal here? Has Magua legitimately killed you or was that just some joke I don't get?

[AGar]

As for you Agar, how does me giving up on arguing with you all of a sudden equate to "he definitely scum now". If you really think that, then you aren't as smart as you think you are. I legitimately have had enough of breaking down points with you because it gets me nowhere. You don't believe anything I say and furthermore you use my attempts at defense as new reasons to attack me so why would I bother?

Follow me here:

- You open voting Vezok with a case behind it.
- Case on Vezok is torn apart.
- You switch vote to Soda, who is being wagonned. This implies that you are at the very least suspicious of him, but probably believe him to be scum.
- You continue to be pressured by me.
- You assume that because I am supposedly wrong in my read on you, that my reads on EVERYONE MUST BE WRONG, and you unvote the guy you were voting.

So either you didn't believe Soda in the first place to be scum (which only would make sense if you were scum and he was town) or you are simply voting opposite of my reads to spite me or something (which isn't a townie thing to do).

If you think Peregrine is easier to understand than me then fine, but the difference in our diction and clarity is negligible and under no circumstances could you apply that argument to him, and not hold me to the same conditions, because, and I firmly believe this, everything I say/mean is obvious and clear, even possibly MORESO than Peregrine. I'm not speaking in code, I haven't been caught out lying. I could sit here and argue with you all day, because I'm right and you'll never crack me. Just because I don't have the patience/time/skill/ambition/commitment to do so, doesn't mean that you are right. Realistically You just didn't like the way I went about the Empking lynch. That's the only thing I've done that realistically could equate to me being lynched. My thoughts are logical and easy to follow, you just disagree with them.

And to continue, I don't believe I'm a VI. I'm new to the game as you play it but a VI I am not, and eventually I hope to be somewhat competent at the game. Even thought I'm not a VI in my mind, that doesn't mean that I'm caught rookie scum either. It's not like "bad player = caught rookie scum or VI" there's also the third option, which from my limited experience tends to end up being the most likely, which is "accused rookie townie". So, wise guy, I'm afraid, YOU are mistaking "accused rookie townie" with "caught rookie scum".

Anywho... what's the deal here? Has Magua legitimately killed you or was that just some joke I don't get?

Paragraph 1: I don't follow your thought process. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I can follow why Peregrine thinks what he's thinking. Nothing so far he's said has come across as a skewed interpretation of the way things really happened, like I've pointed out several times in your posting. I see logical flaws in your posting, twists on events. And as for the Empking lynch? I don't care how you went about it. The biggest indicator was "I'm not content with any lynches, so I'm voting no-lynch." when you were supposedly so suspicious of Vezok that he was the "scummiest player since D1" (your words, not mine).

Paragraph 2: I don't think you're a VI. Again - and this is what's so bothering me - my read is my read. Sitting there and going "YOU'RE WRONG!" isn't going to change it. You've done nothing so far since I've attacked to give me reason to pause in my belief of you being scum. Your focus has swung back and forth between "AGar is attacking me, I must defend!" and pushing your extremely weak case on Vezok. If you were town, by now you should have been pushing either a more solid case on Vezok, or going after a new suspect (which you should have more than 1) with a case. You aren't doing either, and you're latest flip because "YOUR READ ON ME IS WRONG SO THEY MUST ALL BE WRONG AND I DON'T TRUST MYSELF ENOUGH TO STICK WITH MY OWN READS!" is easily one of the biggest scumslips I've seen. Ever.

Paragraph 3: I believe it was a play on my "lolmaguausobadatthiswhydon'tyoujuststicktobeingadaysk" which was referring to an exceptional performance Magua had earlier this year as a Day SK in a *cough*bastard-mod*cough* large theme game.

[Wraith]

Spoiler: Background

World Religions

In Avalon, there are four major religions, each similar to each other while at the same time being very different. Religious conflict is the root of the historic Duro-Jukaran emnity, and holy wars ravaged the continent for centuries during the Kingdom Age. These four religions are Patrianity, Umbricism, Malarism, and Dualism.

Patrianity is the oldest of these religions, and has its origins in the Duranic Imperium, before even the days of the First Empire. Patrianity involves a "holy trinity" of elements - fire, blood, and iron. These elements are symbolic in nature, as demonstrated by the creeds "The Blood fuels the Fire, the Fire forges the Iron, the Iron spills the Blood" and "Forged in Fire, Won by Iron, Earned in Blood." These three elements are extremely prevalent in Duranic national symbolism and philosophy, especially fire. The Duran believe in the nature of the "spirit," and believe that Fire, in burning a body, releases the spirit from the body. The other most important part of Patrianity is the belief in spirits, and that the spirits of the dead watch over, guide, and guard the living, arising to do so if they must. Patrianity is so named because the spirits of the dead are the "patrons" of the living. Important religious parts of a Duran's life include the Rite of Passage - the passage into adulthood, in which a boy undergoes the "baptism by fire," receiving his own iron, spilling his own blood, and being branded with fire. There is also cremation, as all Duran are burned after death - it is believed that burial traps the spirit within the body, making burial of a Duran an unforgivable slight. Patrianity is of course prevalent in the Imperium, but is also the largest religion in the Terran Empire, and a prominent force north of the Black Sea.

Umbricism originated in Jukara, and has long clashed with Patrianity. Whereas fire, and therefore light, is a major element in Patrianity, darkness and shadows are a major element of Umbricism. The Jukaran religion is the source of their unorthodox matriarchal society. Umbrics worship a single goddess named Illeana. This "Shadow Goddess" weaves a web of schemes and intrigue from the darkness, and over time the history of Illeana has evolved as her followers have evolved. It is now commonly held as canon that Illeana was originally the consort of Moran the Eternal, the first Duranic Primarch, and that the two came to blows over the evolution of Duranic culture and society and thus went their separate, hostile ways - unusual, considering there is no scientific evidence the Juke and the Duran ever came in contact with each other until after the First Empire was founded. The constant struggle between Umbricism and Patrianity has imprinted upon the overall culture of Avalonian societies - the eternal struggle between light and dark, for example, that is so prevalent in literature. Umbricism is the only religion of Jukara, and is only a minority elsewhere in the world.

Malarism is a relatively young religion in comparison to Patrianity and Umbricism, but it does not lack in zealous fervor. Malarism has its origins in the deserts of southeast Avalon, where nomadic tribes suddenly united under one banner to embark on a terrifying wave of conquest. Today, Malarism is the most widespread single religion in the world, covering southeast Avalon, much of northern and eastern Troplica, and all of Estlon. Malarism is the belief in the divinity of the "Malar," or "great one." Also known as "the Undying Savior," the Malar is prophecized as the one to lead His followers to Paradise, which can only occur once all men are condemned (in death) or redeemed (in worship). The Malar appears to be more of a spirit force than a single man - even as host bodies die, there will always be an incarnation of the Malar; new incarnations are viewed as "possessed" by some force by outside observers. Malarites, the followers of the Malar, are perhaps the most zealous and fanatical of any religion, always seeking to convert heretics and non-believers to the cause - often by force.

Lastly, Dualism is the religion of western Avalon, combining elements of Umbricism and Patrianity. Dualism is the belief in the dual nature of all things - where there is light, there must also be darkness; but there is always a little darkness in light, and light in darkness, as there is evil in good and good in evil. Dualism has always been a very secular religion, often classified more as a philosophy, and thus Benneria and Arkania have actually avoided much of the religious wars the ravaged Jukara, the Imperium, Terra, and the Malarite empires during the Kingdom Age.

Votecount 4.2

MattP

(3)

:

Otolia

, Nero Cain, SodaSpirit17,

manho

, mbstokem,

kdowns

SodaSpirit17

(3)

:

AGar

, MattP, Bogre,

MacDougall

, manho

Otolia

(2)

:

vezokpiraka, PeregrineV

MacDougall

(2)

:

Otolia, AGar,

kdowns

vezokpiraka

(2)

:

MacDougall

, EtherealCookie, MacDougall

AGar

(1)

:

Magua

Not Voting

(2)

:

whispersilk, kdowns

With 15 alive it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline for today is

November 1, 2011

[SodaSpirit17]

Bogre I gave reasoning to the MattP vote, granted it wasn't today, it was yesterday.

[AGar]

Bogre I gave reasoning to the MattP vote, granted it wasn't today, it was yesterday.

Do you wanna, y'know, contribute anytime soon?

You were kinda up to 5 votes at one point and that suspicion hasn't entirely left the building. You're not scott free at all.

[vezokpiraka]

Vezok, once again, is a better lynch. His behavior is completely scummy and similar to Soda, he has also kinda just disappeared.
The difference is, Soda actually reads like VT.
.

Please tell me why does my behavior seem scummy? Also how have I disappeared and soda didn't?

[Nero Cain]

tags fixed.

Please delete 987.

My point is that I posted once with something I was confused about. I want to know where you think I am cruising. I simply want to know so that I can figure out how to improve my game in the future, because I was not intending whatsoever to "cruise".

You know I wasn't the one that made the cruising comment right?

EC's not knowing what a gunsmith is seems fake. He's been here since 2009.

Maybe if you actually did some background checking you'd realize I've actually had very little playtime for someone who has been here since 2009.

point taken.

My vote on Empking was my first post because I was unable to get online and post before that due to RL. After reading up I decided that Empking was the best choice, and guess what? He was scum.

My vote on Shinki was not a vote to actually get her lynched, it was a vote because apparently on this forum when people want to get a response from someone they vote for them to spur them to do so. I had a question for her I wanted answered, I was just following how everyone else does it.

My vote on MacDougall? That was not a bad vote. I said explicitly in the post where I voted that I was doing so based on previous conversatin about him and outlined the posts that convinced me.

Well my whole thing is you said you found Emp the scummiest but you didn't show any work. For all I know it was a bus on your buddy for town cred.

Your Shinki vote makes a little more sense here. Still don't understand what 125 had to do with it though. Did you find this post scummy? Why did you not mention anything about it on day 1.

Mac is scummy to me. Your questioning Shinki about the East when you line of reasoning was "Emp was scum from the east* so it deff looked like an attempt to stall/derail the Mac lynch. I called you on it. You then voted Mac with reasoning from pages ago that you supposedly already read.

Terrans are mafia. The mod even said green is town. Emps role wasn't green therefore he's not town.

. As a remainder, kdowns, Nero Cain, SodaSpirit, mbstokem voted for MattP without ANY valid reason.

..........................................................

.................................

...........

obviously you don't agree with 909.

wtf. everyone is voting me for sheeping MattP or whatever, but I had suspicions of him before!!!

oh damn I forgot about vezok. He's definitely scum.

OH LOOK!!!! Vezok is a stronger scum read but you're voting Matt P? This is a scum tell in my book.

unvote;vote:Soda

The push on Vezok is bad. I don't care who dies between Mac and Soda and I'll switch my vote accordingly.

[EtherealCookie]

Vezok, once again, is a better lynch. His behavior is completely scummy and similar to Soda, he has also kinda just disappeared.
The difference is, Soda actually reads like VT.
.

Please tell me why does my behavior seem scummy? Also how have I disappeared and soda didn't?

I meant that your disappearance is similar to Soda.
And why are you scummy?

Trying reading my ISO. I've already pointed out that highly suspicious defense of RayFrost. If there are two mafia teams and Ray was GF of one of them, then you're no doubt in that same group.

[MattP]

My vote on Empking was my first post because I was unable to get online and post before that due to RL. After reading up I decided that Empking was the best choice, and guess what? He was scum.

My vote on Shinki was not a vote to actually get her lynched, it was a vote because apparently on this forum when people want to get a response from someone they vote for them to spur them to do so. I had a question for her I wanted answered, I was just following how everyone else does it.

My vote on MacDougall? That was not a bad vote. I said explicitly in the post where I voted that I was doing so based on previous conversatin about him and outlined the posts that convinced me.

Well my whole thing is you said you found Emp the scummiest but you didn't show any work. For all I know it was a bus on your buddy for town cred.

Your Shinki vote makes a little more sense here. Still don't understand what 125 had to do with it though. Did you find this post scummy? Why did you not mention anything about it on day 1.

Mac is scummy to me. Your questioning Shinki about the East when you line of reasoning was "Emp was scum from the east* so it deff looked like an attempt to stall/derail the Mac lynch. I called you on it. You then voted Mac with reasoning from pages ago that you supposedly already read.

For Empking I simply agreed with everyone and was, I admit, a little bit overwhelmed with the activity and not knowing anyone and was very busy so did not have time to analyze every post he made. I've been attempting to put my feet in the water more. However, the most obvious scum points I felt were already illustrated and didn't see any need to be redundant.

I didn't mention anything about Shinki's post on day 1 because I had not read through everything. I fully admit that. It was only after I went back that it made me question his town-ness

I stalled the vote on Mac. I 100% admit that. That is because I like having an idea of both sides before deciding who to vote for. Shinki was being rude and was telling MacDougall that she won't answer his questions, which I thought were valid, because she doesn't have to. I thought that was a stupid reason not to answer questions. Therefore, I thought if I added extra pressure for a response she would give one, and she did. I thought her response was townish and as a result backed off.

[MacDougall]

As for you Agar, how does me giving up on arguing with you all of a sudden equate to "he definitely scum now". If you really think that, then you aren't as smart as you think you are. I legitimately have had enough of breaking down points with you because it gets me nowhere. You don't believe anything I say and furthermore you use my attempts at defense as new reasons to attack me so why would I bother?

Follow me here:

- You open voting Vezok with a case behind it.
- Case on Vezok is torn apart.
- You switch vote to Soda, who is being wagonned. This implies that you are at the very least suspicious of him, but probably believe him to be scum.
- You continue to be pressured by me.
- You assume that because I am supposedly wrong in my read on you, that my reads on EVERYONE MUST BE WRONG, and you unvote the guy you were voting.

So either you didn't believe Soda in the first place to be scum (which only would make sense if you were scum and he was town) or you are simply voting opposite of my reads to spite me or something (which isn't a townie thing to do).

If you think Peregrine is easier to understand than me then fine, but the difference in our diction and clarity is negligible and under no circumstances could you apply that argument to him, and not hold me to the same conditions, because, and I firmly believe this, everything I say/mean is obvious and clear, even possibly MORESO than Peregrine. I'm not speaking in code, I haven't been caught out lying. I could sit here and argue with you all day, because I'm right and you'll never crack me. Just because I don't have the patience/time/skill/ambition/commitment to do so, doesn't mean that you are right. Realistically You just didn't like the way I went about the Empking lynch. That's the only thing I've done that realistically could equate to me being lynched. My thoughts are logical and easy to follow, you just disagree with them.

And to continue, I don't believe I'm a VI. I'm new to the game as you play it but a VI I am not, and eventually I hope to be somewhat competent at the game. Even thought I'm not a VI in my mind, that doesn't mean that I'm caught rookie scum either. It's not like "bad player = caught rookie scum or VI" there's also the third option, which from my limited experience tends to end up being the most likely, which is "accused rookie townie". So, wise guy, I'm afraid, YOU are mistaking "accused rookie townie" with "caught rookie scum".

Anywho... what's the deal here? Has Magua legitimately killed you or was that just some joke I don't get?

Paragraph 1: I don't follow your thought process. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I can follow why Peregrine thinks what he's thinking. Nothing so far he's said has come across as a skewed interpretation of the way things really happened, like I've pointed out several times in your posting. I see logical flaws in your posting, twists on events. And as for the Empking lynch? I don't care how you went about it. The biggest indicator was "I'm not content with any lynches, so I'm voting no-lynch." when you were supposedly so suspicious of Vezok that he was the "scummiest player since D1" (your words, not mine).

Paragraph 2: I don't think you're a VI. Again - and this is what's so bothering me - my read is my read. Sitting there and going "YOU'RE WRONG!" isn't going to change it. You've done nothing so far since I've attacked to give me reason to pause in my belief of you being scum. Your focus has swung back and forth between "AGar is attacking me, I must defend!" and pushing your extremely weak case on Vezok. If you were town, by now you should have been pushing either a more solid case on Vezok, or going after a new suspect (which you should have more than 1) with a case. You aren't doing either, and you're latest flip because "YOUR READ ON ME IS WRONG SO THEY MUST ALL BE WRONG AND I DON'T TRUST MYSELF ENOUGH TO STICK WITH MY OWN READS!" is easily one of the biggest scumslips I've seen. Ever.

Paragraph 3: I believe it was a play on my "lolmaguausobadatthiswhydon'tyoujuststicktobeingadaysk" which was referring to an exceptional performance Magua had earlier this year as a Day SK in a *cough*bastard-mod*cough* large theme game.

You hardly tore my case on Vezok apart. Your case against him being scum is worse than the case for him, even though they're both similar. I changed my vote away from him because it looked likely that no Vezok lynch was going to eventuate.

I switched to Soda because I was suspicious of him, yes.

I said afterwards that I was suspicious of Vezok since day 1, and if you actually have read it, that suspicion came well after I voted no lynch. It was brought to my attention by David Xanatos. I read his ISO after I voted no lynch and decided he looked poor for it. When I voted no lynch, I had no suspicions on anyone except SleepyKrew. I had a town read on David straight away and trusted him, but SleepyKrew looked poor to me, hence my original vote. When it became apparent that he was definitely town, I pulled my vote off him. Unlike everyone else who switched from him to David, I had no reason to believe that it was black/white like that and chose to move my vote to no lynch. Now, I've explained this to you before... but it didn't occur to me to just unvote. It was a simple error. I play on other forums and I didn't realise I could unvote and leave it. In hindsight I did know I could do it but where I play most commonly, the play beckons no lynches frequently (we don't have hammer, we have deadline based lynches). If I had have just unvoted, then this would not even be happening. I had no plans to NOT VOTE. I didn't want a no lynch. I just didn't want my vote on anything at that time, so I thought I had to put it on no lynch.

I find this highly doubtful. If you would read my ISO in a unbias colour then you will find my will rather unwavering. My supposed scumslips you think you've found are nothing more than me getting pissed off with this eternal struggle to redeem myself. Unfortunately, and this has still continued... I don't see scum as clearly as you think you do (which ironically, you don't and will find eventually). If I don't see people running around with their scum dicks hanging out for the world to see, am I supposed to go and find someone who I think is town and just paint them scum? Is that what you're implying? Why is it irrational for you to feel that the scum players are just playing so well than a rookie like myself can't see them? In fact, if I were to take a random pot shot at the scum right now it'd be Team 1 = Vezok and you. Team 2 = SodaSpirit and MattP. If, there are 3/3 mafia teams. MattP hasn't done a great deal to earn my ire, and you are so aggressively tunneling me that if I started trying to paint you scum, you'd shout OMGUS so loud the whole world would hear it. If that's one of the biggest scumslips you've ever seen, then you've seen not a single one, because that's not a scum slip.

[MattP]

MacDougall, I'm trying to lynch Soda O.o

[MattP]

EBWOP: Not that that necessarily proves I'm village, but come on, would I try to push a lynch against my last mafia brethren?

[MacDougall]

I dunno, according to Agar it's possible to bus everybody.

[MattP]

Here is why it would be stupid to bus a fellow mafia this round. If one did it would not even matter since there are two mafia supposedly. Therefore, the village could just assume that you are part of the

other

mafia group, which would make bussing a fellow mafia useless.

[SodaSpirit17]

i had my suspicions of vezok earlier.

[AGar]

You hardly tore my case on Vezok apart. Your case against him being scum is worse than the case for him, even though they're both similar. I changed my vote away from him because it looked likely that no Vezok lynch was going to eventuate.

I switched to Soda because I was suspicious of him, yes.

But because I'm wrong on a read supposedly, you're just going to unvote him now and declare him town, your suspicion (which should be based on his actions, or lack thereof) null and void because AGar is wrong on one read you claim?

Now, I've explained this to you before... but it didn't occur to me to just unvote. It was a simple error. I play on other forums and I didn't realise I could unvote and leave it. In hindsight I did know I could do it but where I play most commonly, the play beckons no lynches frequently (we don't have hammer, we have deadline based lynches). If I had have just unvoted, then this would not even be happening. I had no plans to NOT VOTE. I didn't want a no lynch. I just didn't want my vote on anything at that time, so I thought I had to put it on no lynch.

Except you unvoted from SK in post #344, and then voted to no-lynch in post #444. Check your iso.

I find this highly doubtful. If you would read my ISO in a unbias colour then you will find my will rather unwavering. My supposed scumslips you think you've found are nothing more than me getting pissed off with this eternal struggle to redeem myself. Unfortunately, and this has still continued... I don't see scum as clearly as you think you do (which ironically, you don't and will find eventually). If I don't see people running around with their scum dicks hanging out for the world to see, am I supposed to go and find someone who I think is town and just paint them scum? Is that what you're implying? Why is it irrational for you to feel that the scum players are just playing so well than a rookie like myself can't see them? In fact, if I were to take a random pot shot at the scum right now it'd be Team 1 = Vezok and you. Team 2 = SodaSpirit and MattP. If, there are 3/3 mafia teams. MattP hasn't done a great deal to earn my ire, and you are so aggressively tunneling me that if I started trying to paint you scum, you'd shout OMGUS so loud the whole world would hear it. If that's one of the biggest scumslips you've ever seen, then you've seen not a single one, because that's not a scum slip.

Here's the problem. You say the only scum player you see is Vezok. We've had two scum-flips. Are you really saying that after that, and a handful of townflips as well, you have NO scumreads beyond Vezok? You find NOTHING suspicious about ANYONE?

If you're town, you should already see the issue here.

If not, then carry on and eventually you're going to die, whether I live to see the lynch itself or not.

[manho]

V/LA until weekend

lots of work at school. and i'll probably be playing LOL in my limited free time.

[Otolia]

@kdowns

: Why did you unvote ?

@Magua

: What was that fake DayKill ? Did you have a particular objective when you did that, was it realized ?

@SodaSpirit

: Posting eye-liners is getting you nowhere, please take the time to show us a little bit more of your play. Of vezok, you and MacDougall, which one is the most scummy to you ?

[Magua]

Here you think I'm bussing Stranger, but not sure what a "lolcopreport" is. I did vote Stranger for the cop result, but think that was pretty evident.
Otherwise, you don't say why you think I'm scum, just that you think I am with AGar.

"lolcopreport" is the mafia response when a cop puts a guilty on their partner and they don't think they can discredit the cop. Once the wagon on their partner is halfway built, they figure that their partner is toast anyways, and jump on for the town cred. Usually with either no comment, or with a one line comment about following the cop. Hence, "lolcopreport."

Peregrine seems to be putting honest effort in. Peregrine is putting out logical thoughts that are easy to follow. This is one of the biggest town-tells out there - you can follow from Point A to Point B what they're thinking and why.

I have played with Peregrine (and modded Peregrine) a bit, and I do not see "logical thoughts that are easy to follow" from Peregrine even when I know he's town. I judge Peregrine on his actions, and his actions here have been so-so at best.

Show me where you see his logical thought progression, please, since I'm not seeing it.

MacDougall as VI? I'm afraid you're confusing caught rookie scum with VI. VI isn't something you establish after one game. You know this. You don't just say "Oh wow, this guy is bad, he's a VI." Vezok plays in a similar manner every single game. If you don't know how to handle VI players by now, that's pretty bad. It's the same for all of them - unless they are acting outrightly scummy in a way that is different from their normal, subpar play, you leave them be and force scum to handle them or let them lead you to their scumbuddies - because they will be apparent after a period of time.

Where the bloody hell does this come from? "You can't get a read on someone's playstyle from *this* game, you have to have a lot of games. Screw reads! Solid empirical evidence only!" No. MacDougall votes no lynch D1 in #444. Why do this?

Closest mod count is #421: SleepyKrew (town) and David Xanatos (town) are both at 5 votes, no one else is above 1. Macdougall ends up hammering Empking. So you're saying he's scum who's scared of being on a town wagon, so he votes NL, and then turns around and decides to hammer either his partner, or someone he would have every right to believe is just as much town as the wagons he was avoiding earlier?

Where's the rookie scum motivation in that?

@Magua : What was that fake DayKill ? Did you have a particular objective when you did that, was it realized ?

It was a joke, a joke based on AGar's post that I quoted right up above it about me being the Day serial killer from a previous game.

Otolia is probably town. MacDougall is probably town. I will lynch vezokpiraka or MattP (in that order) before either of those.