Imperial Intrigue (Endgame, OUT OF NOWHERE)

[AGar]

If you can't read Peregrine and follow the same pattern I do logically, me pointing it out isn't going to help you see it. You know this.

As for the second part, I said MacDougall

can't be read as a VI

based off of one game.

As for your whole "Why would rookie scum do this?" Hmmm... he's staying off any wagons and can make a push that he wanted to try and avoid a mislynch (oh, look, he's said something like that already!) and decided to vote for a no-lynch. Look town. All of the usual reasonings behind that.

The last point makes no sense: hammers his partner (loltowncred?) or "someone he would have every right to believe is just as much town as the wagons he was avoiding earlier" - he knows who is town and who isn't...

Also, what about Soda? Thoughts there?

[Nero Cain]

Vote: Empking

He is currently the most scummy

after reading through the thread.

I didn't mention anything about Shinki's post on day 1

because I had not read through everything

.

These two statements do not match. What did you read? Why did you not read everything?

wb to my scumdar.

[Magua]

The last point makes no sense: hammers his partner (loltowncred?) or "someone he would have every right to believe is just as much town as the wagons he was avoiding earlier" - he knows who is town and who isn't

Not if it's a multiscum game he doesn't.

The point was, why vote no lynch? Your theory is (I assume) that he's rookie scum who voted no lynch to avoid being on a town lynch wagon. But that doesn't work because he hammered on Empking. So the question is, did he hammer on Empking because he's Empking's partner? That's not something that rookie scum would ever do. Did he hammer on Empking because he wanted to lynch someone on his team? If so, why do you think he was voting no lynch earlier?

...Also, what about Soda? Thoughts there?

Soda's meh. I would certainly take his lynch above Otolia or MacDougall, but he's not a top suspect at the moment.

[PeregrineV]

Votecount 1.7

Empking

(12)

:

EtherealCookie,

SleepyKrew

, Magua, Otolia, manho, MattP,

StrangerCoug

, SodaSpirit17,

Nero Cain

, kdowns,

Shinki

, Nero Cain, MacDougall

SleepyKrew

(2)

:

tclawren

,

David Xanatos

,

kdowns

,

gandalf5166

,

JDGA

,

MacDougall

,

manho

, whispersilk,

PeregrineV

,

Empking

,

StrangerCoug

,

SodaSpirit17

,

SodaSpirit17

David Xanatos

(2)

:

Magua

,

SleepyKrew

, tclawren,

Nero Cain

,

SodaSpirit17

,

Shinki

, AGar,

Empking

,

SodaSpirit17

,

vezokpiraka

,

Empking

Magua

(1)

:

monk

PeregrineV

(1)

:

gandalf5166

monk

(1)

:

vezokpiraka,

Empking

vezokpiraka

(1)

:

Otolia

,

David Xanatos

,

manho

gandalf5166

(1)

:

kdowns

,

vezokpiraka

,

Shinki

,

PeregrineV

Shinki

(0)

:

StrangerCoug

,

MacDougall

,

Nero Cain

,

Nero Cain

Otolia

(1)

:

gandalf5166

,

Empking

,

Empking

,

Empking

kdowns

(0)

:

EtherealCookie

tclawren

(0)

:

Magua

AGar

(0)

:

SodaSpirit17

No Lynch

(0)

:

MacDougall

Not Voting

(1)

:

Bogre

Was working on this but have to go home. More later.

[EtherealCookie]

Soda is indeed meh.
Magua's case defending Mac makes sense to me, and Mac's behavior today doesn't seem scummy. I'm inclined to put him in a neutralish/town vibe. I don't understand the case on Matt, and he's a null read to me. Vez is clearly scum, however, and is the town's best lynch for today at the current moment.

[MacDougall]

...Also, what about Soda? Thoughts there?

Soda's meh. I would certainly take his lynch above Otolia or MacDougall, but he's not a top suspect at the moment.

Why did you mention Otolia here? I haven't noticed anybody suggesting Otolia is guilty at all?

[Bogre]

...Also, what about Soda? Thoughts there?

Soda's meh. I would certainly take his lynch above Otolia or MacDougall, but he's not a top suspect at the moment.

Why did you mention Otolia here? I haven't noticed anybody suggesting Otolia is guilty at all?

Yeah, question mark, until I started looking back to see where he mentioned Otolia and saw this:

Otolia is probably town. MacDougall is probably town. I will lynch vezokpiraka or MattP (in that order) before either of those.

So its meshes.

Soda's still coasting with his two replies being 'I had suspicions of vezok the day before'. Soda > vezok lynch because again, vezok is playing true to his VI meta(lynching him is basically resorting to is a distracting policy lynch/VI bandwagon that tells us nothing) whilst Soda is being opportunist and dodgy.

[MattP]

Vote: Empking

He is currently the most scummy

after reading through the thread.

I didn't mention anything about Shinki's post on day 1

because I had not read through everything

.

These two statements do not match. What did you read? Why did you not read everything?

wb to my scumdar.

Let me clarify. I filtered out Empking's posts and read them. As I said, I was incredibly busy and therefore was not posting. I only got on because I was prodded and even then I started reading the thread. I just didn't have time, so I looked at the names of the most suspicious people and then filtered out the posts and checked theres. I didn't want to say, "He is currently the most scummy after nitpicking through a moderate portion of the previous posts"

I then went back when I actually had time and read everything.

[MattP]

EBWOP: I believe I read through SleepyKrew's, Empking's and David's posts the first day. I then went back.

[AGar]

The last point makes no sense: hammers his partner (loltowncred?) or "someone he would have every right to believe is just as much town as the wagons he was avoiding earlier" - he knows who is town and who isn't

Not if it's a multiscum game he doesn't.

The point was, why vote no lynch? Your theory is (I assume) that he's rookie scum who voted no lynch to avoid being on a town lynch wagon. But that doesn't work because he hammered on Empking. So the question is, did he hammer on Empking because he's Empking's partner? That's not something that rookie scum would ever do. Did he hammer on Empking because he wanted to lynch someone on his team? If so, why do you think he was voting no lynch earlier?

Rookie scum don't bus? Since when? He also hammered Emp after significant push had been made on the Emp wagon, whereas when he unvotes SK, the only wagons are DX and SK, who both had multiple people claiming them as town. Do you not see why a rookie scum - on Emp's team or not - would unvote in that situation?

@MacDougall

Now, I've explained this to you before... but it didn't occur to me to just unvote. It was a simple error. I play on other forums and I didn't realise I could unvote and leave it. In hindsight I did know I could do it but where I play most commonly, the play beckons no lynches frequently (we don't have hammer, we have deadline based lynches). If I had have just unvoted, then this would not even be happening. I had no plans to NOT VOTE. I didn't want a no lynch. I just didn't want my vote on anything at that time, so I thought I had to put it on no lynch.

Except you unvoted from SK in post #344, and then voted to no-lynch in post #444. Check your iso.

I expect an answer in your next post.

[AGar]

@MOD

Wanna be awesome and fix my bold tag up there? Please, thanks, you're awesome.

[MattP]

V/LA

I have an o chem midterm on Thursday.

[Magua]

Why did you mention Otolia here? I haven't noticed anybody suggesting Otolia is guilty at all?

Both vezokpiraka and Peregrine are voting Otolia. These are bad votes.

Rookie scum don't bus? Since when? He also hammered Emp after significant push had been made on the Emp wagon, whereas when he unvotes SK, the only wagons are DX and SK, who both had multiple people claiming them as town. Do you not see why a rookie scum - on Emp's team or not - would unvote in that situation?

No, rookie scum do not bus unless they're forced. They're very averse to it, which is one of the things that makes it easy to pick them out.

Rookie scum who would unvote SleepyKrew-who-is-not-on-his-team would not vote Empking-who-is-not-on-his-team, for the same reasoning. I can maybe see this happening if the alternative was a partner being lynched, but that's definitively not the case here.
And I'm very confident that rookie scum would not hammer their partner D1 in a Large game.

@PeregrineV:

Less IIoA. What does that votecount tell you?

[Wraith]

kdowns

,

whispersilk

, and

mbstokem

have all been prodded. If the latter two have to be prodded again they will be replaced.

[AGar]

No, rookie scum do not bus unless they're forced.

Forcing yourself into absolutes and definitives like this are terrible. Also, if I recall correctly, MacDougall was pretty well forced to hammer Emp. So again, this line of thought is valid.

[Magua]

Also, if I recall correctly, MacDougall was pretty well forced to hammer Emp.

Show me where this was the case. Show me where he was even mentioned in regards to Empking.

[PeregrineV]

So Shinki wasn't detective then. O.o Well, that's surprising.

No it's not. She perfectly soft-claimed Gunsmith when she said '

tell me about your killing powers, Mr. Scum

'. She was wrong about the scum part since StrangerCoug was a third party but it doesn't matter anymore. He is unlikely to have a ally anymore.

The scum group is likely to be Eastern now. Reasonable estimation has them being at most 2 with killing abilities. The town had a day vig (SleepyKrew) and a a claimed Night Vig, so it's unlikely we have any other killing roles. A protective role was certainly implemented to work with the beloved part of David Xanatos role. After that we certainly have a roleblocker.

One question remains now : Who is doing the second kill ?

Another Third Party or Another Scum Group or both of them are due to an unknown factor (compulsive paranoid gun-owner) ? What are your thoughts on that ?


@kdowns : Any kills tonight ?

For the time being : VOTE: MattP for thinking he can cruise through Day 4 like if it were Day 1.

I think none thought red was a third party. The only people I've seen saying that someone who flipped scum is third party are scums in the same scum team.

My scumbuddies used that with me in other games. I used it in other games and so on.

You aren't town.

unvote vote otolia

@Magua- So do you disagree with Vezok's argument? Or do you find it invalid? If so, why?

[Otolia]

Even though I'm not feeling MacDougall, he has the decency to play. Since the wagon on MacDougall is getting nowhere, I'll be willing to vote for someone else.

VOTE: SodaSpirit

[PeregrineV]

@PeregrineV:

Less IIoA. What does that votecount tell you?

Nothing yet. Have to compare it with another VC and hopefully the posts that match it.

For example, you were voting tclawren at some point, but unvoted him. Meanwhile, tclawren voted Sleepy and DavidX, but never EmpKing.

Was your vote RVS, or something else?
Did tclawren mention EmpKing?
Did EmpKing mention tclawren?
Anything relating to tclawren and Stranger?
Where did tclawren vote day2?

And that is just one player. Aside from him, I'll probably be looking at manho and Nero Cain.

These are questions that take time to go and look up. If you want to help, you can do the same to the day2 vote counts (I think there is only like 3 of them), or try to answer these questions. Of course, anything you post will be double-checked, but you can't get to the analysis without the information.

[Magua]

@Magua- So do you disagree with Vezok's argument? Or do you find it invalid? If so, why?

Disagree. I find it much more likely that scum slip with inside information than they are to try to make statements that are obviously false like "Empking was third party."

Also, I think Otolia is town specifically from his D1 play.

For example, you were voting tclawren at some point, but unvoted him. Meanwhile, tclawren voted Sleepy and DavidX, but never EmpKing.

Was your vote RVS, or something else?
Did tclawren mention EmpKing?
Did EmpKing mention tclawren?
Anything relating to tclawren and Stranger?
Where did tclawren vote day2?

Ok, the first question is "Son I am disappoint" because you could've easily looked it up. I voted tclawren because I became sure that my earlier vote (David Xanatos) was town, and tclawren was next on my list for his "3rd party" remark that he had made to SleepyKrew -- it seemed very much like slotting SK as 3rd party rather than scum was a scumslip.

So is this your way of saying mbstokem is scummy? It seems odd that you would present these as deep questions to be answered when tclawren has like 9 posts and mbstokem has 1.

[PeregrineV]

@Magua- So do you disagree with Vezok's argument? Or do you find it invalid? If so, why?

Disagree. I find it much more likely that scum slip with inside information than they are to try to make statements that are obviously false like "Empking was third party."

Also, I think Otolia is town specifically from his D1 play.

For example, you were voting tclawren at some point, but unvoted him. Meanwhile, tclawren voted Sleepy and DavidX, but never EmpKing.

Was your vote RVS, or something else?
Did tclawren mention EmpKing?
Did EmpKing mention tclawren?
Anything relating to tclawren and Stranger?
Where did tclawren vote day2?

Ok, the first question is "Son I am disappoint" because you could've easily looked it up. I voted tclawren because I became sure that my earlier vote (David Xanatos) was town, and tclawren was next on my list for his "3rd party" remark that he had made to SleepyKrew -- it seemed very much like slotting SK as 3rd party rather than scum was a scumslip.

So is this your way of saying mbstokem is scummy? It seems odd that you would present these as deep questions to be answered when tclawren has like 9 posts and mbstokem has 1.

Actually this is my way of saying that I still have work to do to make the colorful post mean anything. I was trying to give an example, but I think you're getting it but trying to make something else out of it. While you are free to do so (that IS why I posted the vote count with color), I have not done so yet.

So, in reference to the above tclawren and Otloia and third party, how do you define a "statement that is obviously false" versus a "scum slip"?

[Magua]

tclawren read like a scumslip because he attacks SK for not being town by calling him "third party", as opposed to "scum." This reads as a scumslip because it implies that tclawren knows that SleepyKrew was not scum, which implies tclawren is.

Otolia, on the other hand, says that Empking was third party. This seems pretty obviously false, not only from flavor, but also from Empking being a Rolecop which really only makes sense for a faction as opposed to an individual. Unlike what tclawren did, this doesn't look like it betrays inside information. That's the difference.

[MacDougall]

The last point makes no sense: hammers his partner (loltowncred?) or "someone he would have every right to believe is just as much town as the wagons he was avoiding earlier" - he knows who is town and who isn't

Not if it's a multiscum game he doesn't.

The point was, why vote no lynch? Your theory is (I assume) that he's rookie scum who voted no lynch to avoid being on a town lynch wagon. But that doesn't work because he hammered on Empking. So the question is, did he hammer on Empking because he's Empking's partner? That's not something that rookie scum would ever do. Did he hammer on Empking because he wanted to lynch someone on his team? If so, why do you think he was voting no lynch earlier?

Rookie scum don't bus? Since when? He also hammered Emp after significant push had been made on the Emp wagon, whereas when he unvotes SK, the only wagons are DX and SK, who both had multiple people claiming them as town. Do you not see why a rookie scum - on Emp's team or not - would unvote in that situation?

@MacDougall

Now, I've explained this to you before... but it didn't occur to me to just unvote. It was a simple error. I play on other forums and I didn't realise I could unvote and leave it. In hindsight I did know I could do it but where I play most commonly, the play beckons no lynches frequently (we don't have hammer, we have deadline based lynches). If I had have just unvoted, then this would not even be happening. I had no plans to NOT VOTE. I didn't want a no lynch. I just didn't want my vote on anything at that time, so I thought I had to put it on no lynch.

Except you unvoted from SK in post #344, and then voted to no-lynch in post #444. Check your iso.

I expect an answer in your next post.

Your point? After I voted SK and then decided to unvote him I had been left with nobody firm to put a vote on. I didn't become aware of Vezok until later when David pointed it out because he had posted so fleetingly and pointlessly that his posts had just fallen between the cracks to me.

[whispersilk]

Magua, could you sum up why your vote is on AGar please? And do you think you might change your vote to one of the leading wagons if there is no support for an AGar lynch?

[SodaSpirit17]

I could support an AGar lynch, or some pressure at least.