Mini 1243: Magician Mafia (Game Over)

[Junpei]

I targeted Amrun as planned. Either Saulres is lying or there are forces at work that we don't know about. I only consider the latter because I don't find saulres to be scum. I'd say possible scum-redirect, but I want saulres to out who he targeted last night.

[Luxury]

Only got a few minutes but i spoke with Shift earlier who can go into my thoughts in more detail later but essentially I want Anxiety rolecopped and here's why:

We know the following things as facts:

- A death is missing on N1
- Two deaths are missing on N2
- Vi was shot one of N1/N2

Therefore the most likely scenario is that mafia was roleblocked N1, one of the vigs were roleblocked N2 and mafia shot Vi N2 making Anxiety likely roleblocked scum.

[4nxi3ty]

^lol scumslip? i was already rolecopped.

[saulres]

@Junpei: We only planned to target Amrun if Fishy flipped scum. If he flipped town we were going to hit 4nxi3ty who Fishy says he blocked N1 when there were no non-vig kills. So that's who I went after, and who I believe everyone went after. How you missed that I have no idea.

So I have no idea now how the tiger works.

pEdit: Fishy already said he blocked 4nxi3ty on N1 and me on N2. And yes, 4nxi3ty was already rolecopped. Neither head of Luxury is reading the game?

Here's what I think happened:
N1 4nxiety shot Vi to remove the bulletproof (remember, Vi speculated that GNR knew about the bulletproof from her lack of response to him so probably told the rest of them that night) but was blocked.

N2 scum (probably not 4nxi3ty) shot Vi to remove the bulletproof.

N3 scum redirected the tiger from 4nxi3ty to Vi, and shot Ace.

[saulres]

EBWOP:

who I believe everyone went after.

That should read "who I believe everyone thought we went after".

[Junpei]

Well... the rolecop seems to be weak, as it only gives one ability, and it returned vote. So, if you are scum, I wouldn't be surprised if your role PM had a vote ability, I mean scum have to vote, right? So just because you were rolecopped once does not mean that you can't be again.

Amrun is still the main person I'd support investigation on, but I wouldn't do it yet, I want to hear back from saulres. Also how is that a scumslip Anxiety?

pedit: Saulres, I wasn't under that implication at all. Also

>scum redirected the tiger from 4nxi3ty to Vi, and shot Ace

The issue here is that I shot Amrun, are you saying that your shot overrides mine? I don't understand. I do know that somehow, even though we targeted different people, a third person was killed as a result, judging by the flavor. I also suspect a redirect from scum.

[SnakePlissken]

Well I'm confused all around now. I don't get this tiger thing at all. Do you two have to agree on a target for it to work? As in you both have to submit your choices to tripleD?

[Amrun]

Amrun is still the main person I'd support investigation on

Are you this clueless and out of touch? Really?

[saulres]

Saulres, I wasn't under that implication at all. Also

You should have been.

If we lynch Fish, and barring anything big coming from roleclaims,

I would much like to shoot Anxiety

in case you don't know that.

Junpei, unless I missed something, Fishy's at L-2. If he's hammered before we can coordinate I want you to know that

if

Fishy flips scum, then I don't think we should attack 4nxi3ty, but I don't have another target set quite yet.

Saulres, I got that we aren't killing Anxiety

if/when

Fishy flips scum. As for who would be my second choice, I'm not sure yet to be honest, but I have to think either Amrun or Snake.

[4nxi3ty]

@junpei

yeah i guess forgetting that i was rolecopped isn't exactly a scumslip, i still don't understand how being roleblocked one night makes me scum especially when luxury had townreads on me yesterday.

[Junpei]

Saulres, yeah I wanted to kill Anxiety, but toward the end of the day, I was just in the mindset of shooting Amrun, I don't know what to say, I remember getting back to my computer, seeing the day over, and then submitting my tigervig onto Amrun. Everyone was vying to vig Amrun, no one really discussed what to do in the event of Fishy town-flip, I don't know what else to say.

Anxiety, it makes sense because it fits, really. Just read Luxury's post, it pretty much explains it.

[Junpei]

Oh, also I just had an idea.

We could rolecop who we are going to lynch before we lynch them, so that in the event they flip scum, we have some rolespecs possibly (no reveal and all), or we could lynch X and cop Y to try and catch Y lying, and if we can't, stick with X. I'm in opinion of the latter, and that is my rational on Amrun investigation. I don't think anyone else is a better candidate, oh and:

vote Anxiety

[saulres]

Well I'm confused all around now. I don't get this tiger thing at all. Do you two have to agree on a target for it to work? As in you both have to submit your choices to tripleD?

Assuming Junpei got the same instructions I did, we each have to PM DDD with who we want to send it after.

How conflicts, or one person being blocked, resolves, is completely unclear.

N1: I targeted SR, Junpei says he targeted SR, and the tiger killed SR.
N2: I targeted Ace and was blocked, Junpei says he targeted 4nxi3ty, and the tiger killed nobody.
N3: I targeted 4nxi3ty, Junpei says he targeted Amrun, and the tiger killed Vi.

If anyone can explain this (somehow, I think Vi could) that would be great.

@4nxi3ty: Being blocked on N1 when scum didn't kill anyone puts you high in the running for scum.

BTW, I'm not necessarily convinced scum have a kill. They may just have a redirector and there is an SK (because would bulletproof really protect you from a tiger? And there does seem to be a gun in the game).

[Amrun]

I WAS ALREADY INVESTIGATED

READ THE GAME BETTER, SCUM

[Junpei]

Amrun... read what I wrote to Anxiety please.

Also, Saulres I don't know if we should assume that our tiger eats through bulletproof, although if it did then that really makes things interesting. Saulres if you're speculating SK, then who is the SK? Because Luxury's speculation still works with SK-Anxiety I believe. Although in that case, mafia would have to have no kill.

[saulres]

Vi speculated m--

Wait, who said anything about "mafia"? We don't know who the scum is. Scumslip?

What if the tiger's split between town and scum...

In any case, Vi speculated scum have no kill, and yes, that still leaves 4nxi3ty as a possible SK. That theory flies through N1 and N3, but is a little weak on N2 -- where would the SK kill have gone that night? Intentionally held? Odd night hits only?

[4nxi3ty]

@4nxi3ty: Being blocked on N1 when scum didn't kill anyone puts you high in the running for scum

considering we also had someone with bulletproof i'd say its more like 50/50

[saulres]

If you're saying scum would have hit Vi on N1 -- what did they do on N2?

[4nxi3ty]

if people are gonna listen to saulres' scum/sk theory bullshit i am seriously doe with this game.

[Junpei]

I use scum, mafia, and coven interchangeably. The third much less so, but yeah.

SK kill on Vi isn't too bizarre to consider. I mean, if they were intentionally holding it, that's where they'd put it, or perhaps to cause confusion. Speculating too much into night kills as far as motive goes is hard. We can try to do town/anti-town motives, but differentiating between SK and scum is tough.

Saulres, the theory makes sense except for the fact that we shot different people and somehow killed Vi. The theory of "they shot different people, didn't go through" seems to hold less water. I think that it has to do with scum redirect and "The Amazing", but I have no idea how.

[Crab Canon]

I think the setup speculation is getting a bit rampant here and probably not going to be that helpful. Clearly there is some weirdness happening with the night kills that we aren't going to be able to piece together.

I'm a little wary of calling both saulres and Junpei town. We've seen one town/scum pairing already in this game, and it wouldn't entirely surprise me to see DDD create a cerebral game with townie/scum partnerships. It's kind of agonizing though because there isn't much of a way to tell what is happening given the town PR we appear to have.

That being said, I don't think lynching either of them today is a good move. There are too many vanillas here imo. Someone is lying. I think Anxiety and Amrun both being resistant to being rolecopped again is more than a bit suspicious. Scum will have the voting ability as well no doubt, and Amrun already came back with something other than VT abilities (though none of us know what amazing does, honestly). I may be okay with a cop one, lynch one scenario.

[Amrun]

Oh, I don't care if I'm rolecopped again. I misunderstood.

Go ahead.

Ordinarily, I might balk because it should be used on someone else who has not been rolecopped yet - and it really SHOULD - however, as it is, I am in danger of being mislynched, and that is more harmful to town than losing out the information on someone else.

If that will ease your minds, go ahead. The issue is that I will just return the voting ability, so I don't know what that will prove. Scum can vote, too.

However, if I am rolecopped today and then again tomorrow, that will prove that I have no other abilities.

Just realize what you're committing to - to waste two days worth of information. If that will clear me, then it will achieve something, but we should still be cognizant of what we are wasting.

It isn't likely scum will let a town rolecop live too much longer anyway, if snake is indeed town. So it might all be for naught, and the chance to gain something today might be squandered.

I leave the choice up to the town, since I am the suspect here, but I just want everyone to think about the issue from all sides.

[saulres]

In my opinion we don't have all that many days left. For all we know we're in MyLo right now. So I think any investigation should target someone who claimed VT, as that's the most likely location for scum. If my notes are right, that would be 4nxi3ty (already checked once), Amrun (already checked once), Luxury and Crab Canon.

Also it's looking like I'm not going to have time to do full reads until next week at the earliest, which sucks. So I'm going to have to focus on targeted things. Like VCA.

I have to think there was more than one scum in on SL's lynch.

springlullaby

– Shift,

Vi

,

Guy_Named_Riggs

,

Fishythefish

, Amrun,

sottyrulez

, Locke Lamora

Snake's obviously not going to target himself, so if he wants to hit someone from there who hasn't been hit yet, Shift/Luxury is the only choice.

Here's the full VCA list for easy bookmarking.

springlullaby

– Shift,

Vi

,

Guy_Named_Riggs

,

Fishythefish

, Amrun,

sottyrulez

, Locke Lamora

sottyrulez

(L-4) - saulres, Junpei,

ace5993

ace5993

(L-5) - Crab Canon, 4nxi3ty
Shift (L-6) –

springlullaby

Guy_Named_Riggs

–

Vi

,

ace5993

, Crab Canon, Luxury, SnakePlissken,

Guy_Named_Riggs

4nxi3ty (L-3) - Junpei,

Fishythefish

, saulres
saulres (L-5) - 4nxi3ty
Junpei (L-5) - Amrun

Fishythefish

-

Vi

, Amrun, Junpei, Luxury, Crab Canon, SnakePlissken

saulres

(L-5) - 4nxi3ty
Not Voting (3) -

ace5993

,

Fishythefish

, saulres

[saulres]

I think the setup speculation is getting a bit rampant here and probably not going to be that helpful. Clearly there is some weirdness happening with the night kills that we aren't going to be able to piece together.

As to this, since if there's an SK we've probably already lost, I agree we should just focus on finding scum. However, speculation on how the tiger works is important, because it's one of our best shots to kill more scum, if we can learn how to properly control it.

[Luxury]

pEdit: Fishy already said he blocked 4nxi3ty on N1 and me on N2. And yes, 4nxi3ty was already rolecopped. Neither head of Luxury is reading the game?

We knew he was roleblocked, we missed the part where he was rolecopped already. Our mistake.

However...

^lol scumslip? i was already rolecopped.

This is without a doubt one of the most ridiculous posts all game, and it's not the first one Anxiety's made. Missing a rolecop report stating someone has a vote cannot be considered a scumslip by any means.

Scum probably have a redirector, though that's already been stated. Will discuss it with Regfan later.

Yes, Anxiety is without a doubt scum because of the missing kill N1. Vi was more than likely shot N2 because if he was shot N1 by scum they would have shot him N2 as well unless you're suggesting Saulres is scum controlling two kills, in which case killing Sotty with the second shot makes no sense. This means scum did not get a kill off N1. There is no doctor, only a roleblocker. And who was roleblocked? Anxiety. Next, scum more than likely redirected one of Saul/Junpei to obvtown Vi unless, again, you think Saul is scum. Why would they bother redirecting if one of Anxiety/Amrun was not scum?

As for the SK theory it now seems unlikely to me as we'd have a total of 4 missing kills if that was the case. Mafia+SK kill N1, Mafia or SK+Vig kill N2, and then a SK or Mafia kill N3. This doesn't seem likely with only 2 roleblocks and 1 BP going around.

Will be discussing with Regfan again to solidify our beliefs before we vote, when we do it'll again probably be Anxiety.

Same goes for who we believe should be rolecopped since it appears Anxiety already has been.

-Shift