NY 142: Rolling in the Deep, WAIT WAT? PARTY OVER?!

[theamatuer]

Statements like "youre both town" scream: "I know you're both town because I know who everone in town is and it suits my purpose to tell you who is town because guess what? I'm scum"

In other words: "I can tell you who is town and whos not since it would totally not make people suspicious of me and totally help me win"
And I did read both of you as town regardless of what the other says. A town on a town causes nothing but endless headache and a chance for scum to latch on and push one's lynch easily , then push for the other if he's able enough.
pedit- Rev is town since his play matches what I know of him-Offensive and offensive, rapid-fire, and attacking whoever says contrary to him. He does make excellent points if you ISO him and read through the lines.

[Beck]

If I'm scum, make a case on me, but first please, links to where you defended yourself and to where you Pointed out the flaws in my argument.

Right now you just seem to be stalling. If you are town, it's not good to stall.

[Beck]

Amateur, does rev town attack Lurkers?

[Revenus]

See theam, my case on you is not the greatest since it's mainly a meta argument since you did play so awfully last game. However, someone who at least is explaining their opinions out like you are in THIS specific game where most of the players are content with dropping votes with no explanation, that will save you at least from being lynched d1 IMO.

And Beck, yes, I am scum. I am stalling. You've caught scum, because obviously i haven't posted anything at all.

[Beck]

I am asking you to provide links to the posts you claim to have made, why are you twisting it around.

Please can you post these links or are you not going to?

[vijay2vasandani]

Phew. That has been helpful. Guys, can we stop with the beck-rev argument? You guys have just repeated the same thing for about 30 posts.

@ mod: can we please have a VC? Cheers.

So who are we lynching again? I'm confused.

[Beck]

ok I just re-read Rev's iso and there is no evidence of any sort of defense from any of the people voting him, so I am please asking him to provide links.

The 3 biggest cases I have made in this game

Spoiler:

Zde

So for anyone playing at home, here is why I'm voting zde

1. Suggesting a PL to begin with
2. The fact he pointed to a rather weak reason for said PL
3. The fact that he votes the first person who questions him and his reason for his PL vote.

Interesting enough that's the same number of posts he has so far.

If he was joking like he claimed, he wouldn't have pinpointed the exact post number in a game, unless he had it memorized, he obviously had to go find the post.

Plus, the vote on pops, who made a content filled post in response to the PL suggestion, draws such a reaction he felt needed to vote him, not once trying to point out what was wrong with pops's post, just writes it off as "blathering"

This isn't town motivated behavior, and as such I'm thinking he needs more pressure and quite possibly lynched.

Pine

1. why do you originally say the case on zde is weak but than later say his actions were "suspicious" (your word not mine)? if his actions were suspicius, the wagon on zde would be justified right? you pressure suspicious people which is what that wagon was doing

2. You basically say "look at me I am scum hunting cause i am focusing on other people" but the person you were focusing on was somebody you just said committed a town slip and you don't think he is scum. How is this an example of you scum hunting and how does it prove your point?

3. I still woudl like you to post, at least 1 (more would be better) of you scum hunting


the problem I have with you pine is i keep asking you for info and you keep retreating saying i am attacking you for the same reasons you are attacking me, I have no previous biased towards you because you were scum in that other game and you won, your play was clearly better than mine.

my case on you may not be rock solid, but it certainly isn't "crap" (again your word, not mine)

Rev

Rev - votes have been for fairly weak reasonings, he seems more inclinced to mis-rep people and discredit them instead of actually scum hunting. he also would rather lurker hunt than scum hunt, sword vote is terrible, even if he is lurking, there are other lurkers who are being scummy with their posts who could deserve pressure more (shattered or Hiraki are much better lurker votes) I sort of see a Hiraki and Rev connection too, but idk how strong I feel about it. Most important note, he hasn't really addressed anyone that is voting him, nor is he trying to defend himself. When I ask him to provide examples or proof of statements he makes, he just ignores them.

he says this is what I am doing -

will accept any argument that is spoonfed to him if the writer simply praises him for good play.

but when I ask him for proof, he doesn't follow up on it

Notice nobody has followed you, nor have you attempted to post reasons for people to follow you. You have people voting you already, yet you really aren't questioning them, you are sort of hoping they get bored waiting and change to somebody else. Everything about your play thus far makes more sense as you being scum, not town.

And I don't see any stellar scumhunting coming from you either, your scum hunting has taken you to omen? Really? Why? Oh yeah cause he is lurking. See Lurker hunting, not scum hunting.

And for your entertainment to the comedic stylings of Rev.

Rev's attacks on Beck

Spoiler:

Beck; that's dumb

hat is completely asinine, and therefore you are a detriment to the game

You must be the worst player I've ever played with

Beck's impulsive no-content spam posting

until you figure out what the point of this game is, figure out that it isn't to feed your own ego, and decide to scumhunt.

but Beck is far and away the most antitown player in the game

You're obviously retarded, so anything you do is going to make me averse to it.

You're voting simply to boost your own ego.

town's best weapon is to talk and vote, but if you do it in a manner that comes off as retarded, no one will listen to you.

apparently stupid behavior in this game

And your outburst lasted for about 60 posts, and it was the very definition of stupid posting,

because you've been retarded all game.

Your whole argument is stupid. I'm going to go back to ignoring you and asking people to see through your bad play for the retarded scum play it actually is.

Seriously, if you can't read, that isn't my fucking problem.

[Beck]

so Rev, I have just shown 3 examples of me actually scum hunting and not hurting the flow of the game. so I would like

1. the links to the posts where you claim you have defended yourself from the people voting you (including my case on you)

2. I would like to see the examples of your scumhunting

thank you

I will also ask you to not call me stupid, retarded, or any other sort of personal insult or I will complain to the mod.

[sword_of_omens]

unfortunately, i haven't had a chance to as many iso's as i'd like today with work being so crazy...

ok i ISO'd Shattered, and i originally thought he was just comedy relief, but now i'm thinking not so much..
Shattered are you really being serious? I am starting to think that you somehow believe this is not a joke...
Your scumreads are :
(From Post 187)
Beck (your reason is his case is BS)
Revenus (because he unvoted Beck and said he liked what Beck had written)
Zel1nk (for shouting Obvtown)
Slandaar (for saying Beck is town)
and then Post #630 :

No. Read my iso. My reads have not yet changed, and I've read the entire thread now.

So your mainly basing everything off the fact that you think Beck is scum? And anyone who agrees with him is also scum?
Unless of course, i am reading this all wrong? Is that your reasoning?

Hiraki - other than post 48 and 321, Hiraki has posted nonsense...looks to be pushing buttons to try and get reactions...

Slandaar - i only got about a quarter way through his iso, so i'll have to finish it tomorrow, sorry.i still think his targetted attack on TheAd was out of place...i'm leaving here in just a few so i will only have phone access until tomorrow...tomorrow should be light so i should be able to get some decent content on...

[Zdenek]

Slaandar's reaction to ThaD's vote is ridiculous, and this accusation is one of the most contrived things I have ever read.

So, we can assume beck is a town read yet he does not use becks logic to find scum pushing the beck wagon, which is odd, truely, looking for any reason to get your vote on me first eh?

I think Rev is town.

[popsofctown]

Funky the guy who has posted approximately 0 content is voting someone for not posting content, do you not see the irony? its actually pretty scummy voting someone for doing what you are doing (it does not matter if his reasons are valid) a lurker voting a lurker is scummy as it implies the lurker thinks lurking is scummy but they are doing it so they cannot possibly think lurking is scummy as they themselves are town... or not.

This is a logical fallacy. It's probably one of those particular ones with a particular name, but I don't know what it is.
People who eat a bad diet are usually unhealthy. I eat a bad diet myself, but I have had the fortune of staying healthy. If you give me a lineup of people and tell me one eats vegetables all the time and the other eats junk all the time and then asked which one I want to bet 10$ they get the flu this year, I'm going to pick the guy that eats junk.
I couldn't think of a better way to illustrate this, but it's quite possible that 80% of lurkers are scum, funky is in the 20% that isn't, but he is still improving his accuracy by lurkerhunting.

I still like my Shattered Vote right now. Targetting all my townreads, no reasoning whatsoever, and declines to comment on something like 15 pages which is basically epic active lurking.

But thad slandaar drama is interesting keep it goin

[Beck]

@ slandaar - I was the first person to bring up that somebody on funky's wagon was scum here - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3523440

and than 5 posts later TheAd says the people I chose he disagree with and chose numbers 3, 4, and 5

so why are you grilling TheAd for picking somebody on that wagon, but not grilling me, since it was my suggestion to begin with?

this is yet another problem I have with you because you said THAT post put him on your radar, but by that logic I should be on your radar and you should be pushing on me just as much as him.

and one more thing, if you really think funky is scum, since you said you can't see him being town. You should be voting funky correct?

[Beck]

btw funky isn't voting rev for not posting content, funky is voting rev because of (his own words) "he seems to not be contributing much other than extremely weak votes on lurkers."

has funky not posted anything game related? absolutely but he hasn't posted much at all in general

Can you read through REV's ISO and REALLY find TRUE examples of scum hunting?

the closest thing I can find is the list of examples provided by theamateur so I will provide my thoughts about each one of these examples.

Spoiler: rev's Scumhunting examples

amatuer, if you'll notice, Pine wasn't really attacking Beck for any reason except out of personal dislike, and it appears that Beck is an ultra aggresive player who will read into any sort of situation as potentially scummy, so there you have it.

How is this an example of scum hunting, if anything this is determining 2 people are probably town

He's had thoughts that are very similair to mine that I haven't bothered posting because he posted them first. Because of that, I think he's town as well. It's at least good enough for me that I don't want him lynched d1.

clearing somebody as town

And iam, coming in and going "well I haven't posted anything but here is a post that I think you have fluffed" isn't really doing anything and you should be posting actual game content. I don't mind votes on theam because theys how that people find him scummy, but last game he was very scummy and stupid and turned out to be town so he's one of those players where even if he is scum at the end, it'l be easy for town to tell if he is. There are other options IMO.

And DavidParker, your whole reasoning for voting me was being "noncommittal" yet I voted zel right after making that post; how is that not commital? Don't be stupid.

telling someone to post content isn't scum hunting, the comment about Theam isn't either, and neither was the comment about DP

Someone like screaming hawk who hasn't done anything needs pressure

I've changed my mind on Beck again. Even though he's an anti-town scrub who can't do anything except react and base his "scumhunting" on that (if you can even call that scumhunting), no good will come of his lynch.

UNVOTE:

However, we have people who have posted all of 4 times, and if say...these 4 posts were in any way insightful or contributing to the game at all, I'd be fine with that. However, we have people like Screaminghawk, who have 2 posts explaining why they need to vote davidparker, followed by a post that explains that Beck is pissing them off, followed by a stupid question that has nothing to do with anything. Seriously, if you're going to ask why Sky needs votes, then you need to follow that up with something

VOTE: Screaminghawk

Asking questions and clarifying how you feel on a player without explaining your thoughts on anything just makes you look like you're contributing, but you haven't.

he is applying pressure to a lurker who is posting usless posts, this is acceptable example of scum hunting

I literally facepalmed when I saw Shatteredhawk's response.

Then I saw Beck's response.

In no way did you substiantiate anything you claimed. You say my iso is useless? Wow. Then you go onto accuse Pine of being scum SIMPLY because he is fed up with your bullshit. You must be the worst player I've ever played with, and that's saying something.

And theam, taking someone's list and agreeing with it but putting the list creator as "null-scum" is odd.

And zelink, if all you're going to do is say you're obvtown the whole game, I'm going to start ignoring your content like I do Beck's.


Anyways, I'm fine with a vote on Screaminghawk at this point, but also, I'd actually be ok with pretty much anyone's lynch beyond the 3 I named as town earlier.

This isn't an example of scum hunting

so, everyone who thinks Rev is town, I am asking you to prove it to me because I haven't seen anything in his play that suggests he is town

[sorgster]

Beck I haven't seen anything in his play that suggests he is scum. Zdenek sounds like an opportunist and a good lynch. Soda has not posted much in this game which is starting to bug me because I've played a few games with him and he never lurks like this.

[Beck]

Beck I haven't seen anything in his play that suggests he is scum. Zdenek sounds like an opportunist and a good lynch. Soda has not posted much in this game which is starting to bug me because I've played a few games with him and he never lurks like this.

what is pro-town about his play than?

[sorgster]

It's innocent until found guilty, not the other way around.

[Beck]

Nope, it's everyone is null until proven town or scum. If you think he is town, you should have not have problem explaining why he is town.

[Revenus]

Unless sorgster is scum too.

Congrats Beck, you have found another scum with your innovative ways.

[sorgster]

People who ignore someone playing the game better replace out now, if people are ignoring my case and reasons. Others have posted reasons too.

You shouldn't ignore any case, including mine

I absolutely can, since your cases have no substance. For example, here is a typical exchange

Beck: I'm fucking awesome. Fuck you people

Someone: Uh, calm down buddy

Beck: Fuck you too, you're scum

Someone: That's terrible scumhunting

Beck: Stop discrediting me. I'm scumhunting. You're lying. Therefore you're scum.

That sounds town motivated to me. He's explaining how beck reacts and how he's distracting the thread from finding scum. He insists upon stopping beck's spamming several times.

I'm hoping off to watch football, but to indicate where I want the lynch to go


UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sword_of_omens

Someone like screaming hawk who hasn't done anything needs pressure

I've changed my mind on Beck again. Even though he's an anti-town scrub who can't do anything except react and base his "scumhunting" on that (if you can even call that scumhunting), no good will come of his lynch.

UNVOTE:

However, we have people who have posted all of 4 times, and if say...these 4 posts were in any way insightful or contributing to the game at all, I'd be fine with that. However, we have people like Screaminghawk, who have 2 posts explaining why they need to vote davidparker, followed by a post that explains that Beck is pissing them off, followed by a stupid question that has nothing to do with anything. Seriously, if you're going to ask why Sky needs votes, then you need to follow that up with something

VOTE: Screaminghawk

Asking questions and clarifying how you feel on a player without explaining your thoughts on anything just makes you look like you're contributing, but you haven't.

He's voting on people to get more people involved in the game and pressuring them. Why would scum want this?

[Beck]

This is the last time I'm gonna ask this, if you are town, please defend yourself or I'm going to do something stupid.

I am not playing a game where my top scum read just ignores me, I really cant beleive nobody is supporting me, which is all the more reason to do it.

Please, defend yourself.

P.edit - you realize that first part is no where close to accurate representation of my play? What's town motivated about an absolute mis-representation of my play.

2nd part - why would scum go after inactive people? Idk, I guess to appear to be scum hunting cause Lurkers are much easier to mislynch than active people perhaps?

[sorgster]

I don't even need to explain the pine attacks. It happened ever since he suggested pl on you.
That was the start of your rev attacks.

Beck; that's dumb. Do you think that it makes them scum? If you're pushing it because the extension of them thinking your cases are wrong makes them scum, that's fine, but if you're going to attack them not because you think they're scum, but that you think they are simply attacking you, that is completely asinine, and therefore you are a detriment to the game. If you're going to just be straight up anti town, then I'm going to be voting you.

Anyone who cant use logic and words to demonstrate why my case is wrong, and calls me scum because of it, is either scum or a fucking vi who needs to die

Crackhead says im scum because my cases are bullshit or crap or whatever word he used. He doesn't bother to take the time to explain why they are wrong. I've dealt with this type of attitude before and got lynched day 1, by parama who was scum. He acted like gods gift to scum hunting and tried to make me look like an idiot.

If I'm wrong with my cases, tell me I'm wrong

But to say im auto scum cause I made bad cases (especially when they can't verbalize why it's wrong) is scum pushing a mislynch.

Crackhead has done nothing this game and now has claimed to catch all the scum?

HORSESHIT

And look here when hiraki says something bad about you

also, beck seems to get a lot of heat for how he plays fwiw i have no problem with it so far and see no reason for the hate.

I have no problem with it.

Doesn't mean that he's right.

You keep calling me wrong but you dont ever say why I'm wrong.

So instead of posting filler, explain it.

Everyone has shit on me because I've stopped being productive, but I've stopped being productive cause I've caught pine scum and nobody can explain why I'm wrong.

Re-read both pine and rev's iso and you will see almost identical things.

Neither is doing anything to catch scum.

And rev, instead of trying to explain why my case is wrong on pine, he just attacks me, misreps me, and tries to discredit me.

If anyone can find 1 useful post from either if them, please post it.

I also get this weird feeling that hiraki is with them

.

[sorgster]

This is the last time I'm gonna ask this, if you are town, please defend yourself or I'm going to do something stupid.

I am not playing a game where my top scum read just ignores me, I really cant beleive nobody is supporting me, which is all the more reason to do it.

Please, defend yourself.

P.edit - you realize that first part is no where close to accurate representation of my play? What's town motivated about an absolute mis-representation of my play.

2nd part - why would scum go after inactive people? Idk, I guess to appear to be scum hunting cause Lurkers are much easier to mislynch than active people perhaps?

I disagree that lurkers are much easier to lynch. Lurkers are much harder than active people to lynch imo.

[sorgster]

Sorry for triple post but you said appear to be scumhunting, that means he has been scumhunting. guess that makes your case on revenus null and void.

[Pine]

WHEN I GET IGNORED I POST IN CAPS LOCK. STOP IGNORING ME. GIVE US YOUR READS WITH EXPLANATIONS.

EXPLAIN YOUR PREVIOUS VOTES

I concur.

Funkybike, explain yourself.

And theamatuer, you're not looking any better.

Actually, theam has been looking better of late. You, on the other hand, are firmly off of my Town list and sinking through the neutral categories. Less for the mediocre reasons others have posted about you, and more due to your unflagging willingness to pursue any avenue of discussion ad infinitum, no matter how useless or distracting to the game.

It's innocent until found guilty, not the other way around.

Fallacy. This is not a court of law, this is Mafia Scum. Here, you are presumed suspect until I have a

damn

good reason to believe otherwise.

I am becoming more tolerant of a Beck PL as the pages pile up and up due to his incessant chattering, drawing others into spirals of distraction. Pops and theam are still on my suspect list, but have moved off of the most wanted category, exchanging places with Hiraki and Shattered Viewpoint. I'm quite wary of the former two as yet, because I feel their recent improvements might be a direct result of the suspicion cast upon them.

Unvote
Vote: Shattered Viewpoint

I want fresh reads, with good reasons for all of them. Hell, I'll even do the same at some point in the next day or so.

[Beck]

Sorry for triple post but you said appear to be scumhunting, that means he has been scumhunting. guess that makes your case on revenus null and void.

appearing to scumhunt is what scum does, ACTUALLY scumhunting is what town does. there is a difference, rev is pretending to scumhunt

scum attacking lurkers is much easier way to look like you are doing something because you can always find reasons to agree with a lurker vote, which is why I said early on in this game, let the mod handle inactive people.