Imperial Intrigue (Endgame, OUT OF NOWHERE)

[MacDougall]

Well since you seem to WANT me to have a scum read on you, I'll try to entertain you... Let's see what your wiki comes up with, because your play in this game is pretty legit aside from tunneling me...

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - In this scum game you can see he is incredibly aggressive and scum hunts like a dragon. He gets a "scum read" on Vezok and just doesn't let go. He aggressively reads people scum and his play borderlines on abusive. This read is AWFULLY familiar to me.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... er_sort=Go - Here's a town one. Low content and no walls. Doesn't really last long in this game though...

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - Here's a mini theme scum game of his. Oh look, again he is super aggressive, posts loads of walls and his play borderlines on abusive.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - A town mini theme. Here is somewhat more aggressive but still reads less committed. His words per post are still drastically less than either of the scum games. As town he self hammers?

I only clicked four randomly mind you.

Anyway... I feel like I am displaying the patience of a saint here, but if the rest of you REALLY want to lynch me just to lynch him afterwards, I suppose I could get some sick pleasure out of it. Go ahead.

[AGar]

No, in my "weirdo" world a town player would have more than 1 scumread by day 4 and wouldn't be afraid of dying since you keep underhandedly hinting that I'm suspicious to you.

[AGar]

Also, if you're going to try and meta me to craft a scumread, you should probably pick more than 4 games, since I've played over 50.

[Magua]

Oh, god, Andy's unedited catch up wall. Hate that.

Do note that parts of it read as edited and parts of it read as unedited, eg:
"So David Xanatos is still not voting, especially after calling SK "today's lynch". Odd."
"David Xanatos earns +townpoints for thinking there was one scumteam, when there's two."

Both of which would seem to be written before looking at the flips, contrasted with:

"Is it just me or is Magua tunneling Xanatos a little too hard? Because it seems like alot of force against the man who flipped Beloved Prince Mason. :/"

Obviously written knowing the flip, but still in relation to D1.

Or later: "

Shinki is not scum with SC.

Shinki is also dead. "

Going to respond to AgaRs post, Magua?

@Magua #1029. Respond please. Even if it's just "Wow AGar, you're so right!" I'll be satisfied with the recognition.

I read MacDougall as scared newbie. "No lynch" is scum-motivated, yes, but scum know it's scum motivated and avoid doing it. It's just too scummy to be scum. Especially in a setup where the scum have daytalk, MacDougall's play would be coached better by his scummates.

All of these things: scared of lynching town, wanting approval before hammer, being mistrustful of the wagon because it might be "scum motivated" are all classic newbie tells. Yes, they're all incredibly scummy. That's just how newbies work. Scum would know the setup is multiscum, would be looking to hide and coast rather than paint huge signs on themselves that say "WATCH ME NO LYNCH."

Empking was easy to spot because he *should* know better but was playing like he didn't. MacDougall, on the contrary, simply doesn't know better.

I do not think MacDougall is scum, and I do find your pushing for him with such vehemence and with such bullshit like "let's him and me 1v1" is scummy. I don't like it. At all. I'm really glad that your activity and interest in this game has picked up, but "tunnel on the weakest player in the game" is just downright scummy. Saying "vezokpiraka gets a pass for doing stupid shit" is fine, but then saying, "MacDougall can't get a pass because even though he's obviously a newbie I haven't seen him fuck up five games yet" is downright scummy.

Lord knows I'm not 100% at reading newbies (Oversoul, sadly, has fooled me twice), but I'm pretty damn good at it. I got Katsuki-town in MoCO, Shadow1psc-town and Raivann-town in ASoS, and vezokpiraka-town and Blackberry-town in Brightest Day.

[vezokpiraka]

The viable lynch is Vez.
I don't much care for the possibility of both of you being town and wasting two lynches.
Vez is a fucking beacon of scumminess.

Explain.

[EtherealCookie]

I have already explained.
How about you try reading?

[manho]

finally catch up. i've read all the post except that wall by andrius.

i think agar vs macdougall is town v town.

and soda is still scum. no idea about the others for now. will have a more detailed read later.

[Nero Cain]

v/la 2-3 days

I has the flu. The flu sucks.

[Andrius]

Except for the fact that the vanilla town role PM actually mentions House Argelev in it, as pointed out in the OP.

Scum would know this because they'd probably have fakeclaims and buddies to go "hey guys yadda ya Argelev is town".

quote="MacDougall"]Well the alternative at the time was to sit there and throw fuel on the David vs. SleepyKrew fire. Town vs. town it turned out that one. [/quote]
And, at the time, you just happened to know they were both town?

... I don't really see how set up speculation is scummy. If you look at the time stamps there I posted those during real lulls in the game, just to put stuff out there to move the game along. Agar made the ultimate set up speculation post but he's super town to you. Conflicting ideology.

Your posts FOCUSED on setup speculation. Little analysis. IIOA. You kept putting forth information (unconfirmed setup info, be sure to note) rather than actually contributing something new.

AGar is town for other reasons than just one. As you are scum for more than one.

Already explained the PHENOMENON of my no lynch vote. Oh the humanity of it.

Mind reposting it one more time? Because No Lynch DAY ONE is never a good idea.

Well as a NOOOOOOOOOOOOOB I was planning on just trying to post sparingly and get a feel for the game/learn a bit, but Agar drew me out and forced me to get involved by straight up voting me. Scummy innit. Oh well, it's true.

You tell me of all the games you've played on this site.
Now. Because you're "im a n00b and too afraid to come out guns blazing and wait to 'learn a bit'".

Doesn't necessarily mean that Terrans are mafia. That was more of a breadcrumb post anyway hoping to trip Agar up. I was sort of insinuating that he was Terran and knew more about their role in the game than we do. Being that he haphazardly referred to them as Terran Mafia, when at no stage has that been mentioned. Slightly wifom I guess.

Sooooo how does anyone NOT flipping Loyalist/Argelev and NOT GREEN town?

NO.
AGAR. NO 1v1. THAT IS STUPID.
We just lynch MacDougall and he flips scum ---> win.
We don't need to do silly things like 1v1. That is for Fate and other players who win the game for scum as town.

Anyways, I am 99% positive Andrius is town based on his wall. VERY insightful Andrius. Looking back, I do agree mostly with MacDougall talking so plainly about Shinki being cop looking scummy. Hell, why the fuck would a townie do that? I kind of think MD would make more sense as an indie than scum though.

Indie is still scum.
IF YOU ARE NOT WITH US
THEN YOU ARE AGAINST US

MattP has no need to claim, Soda.
Vote MacDougall.
My legion does NOT disappoint.

Though I know it's very difficult for scum to win a lynched or be lynched situation, I'm reluctant to use it in this situation. I'm not sure it's really useful against MacDougall. Let's see what Magua and Andrius have to say about it.

Wait what case?

Concerning the wake-up of SodaSpirit, I don't think you can get anyone to claim right now.

I have given this thread a transfusion of LIFE AND HOPE.
ALL WILL BE WELL.

I'm not gonna play that game with you Agar when you are like a no read to me.

Give me a list of your reads.
On all players.
Now.
And null reads don't count.
Unless they've posted less than 10 times thus far.

Oh, god, Andy's unedited catch up wall. Hate that.

What were you expecting? For me to turn into Jack or shaft.ed and do only one-liners?

manho's latest posting hasn't convinced me he's town.
Nero Cain is town.

After a votecount I'll reevaluate the votes.

[MacDougall]

Lol okay.

Agar - town
Andrius - town
Bogre - town
EtherealCookie - town
kdowns - town
Magua - town
manho - scum
MattP - town
Nero Cain - town
Otolia - town
PeregrineV - scum
SodaSpirit17 - scum
Vezok - scum
whispersilk - town

[Andrius]

Nice manho read.
But you've never directly mentioned him all game. Which is odd.


Though you did remind me that Bogre is in this game. Need to read that one.

[MacDougall]

Manho hasn't done anything of note all game. I just glanced at his name and took a shot in the dark on him being scum

Except for the fact that the vanilla town role PM actually mentions House Argelev in it, as pointed out in the OP.

Scum would know this because they'd probably have fakeclaims and buddies to go "hey guys yadda ya Argelev is town".

What the heck are you talking about anyway? The OP ... has a sample PM ... that suggests that Argelev is town. Everybody knows that Argelev is town.

Well the alternative at the time was to sit there and throw fuel on the David vs. SleepyKrew fire. Town vs. town it turned out that one.

And, at the time, you just happened to know they were both town?

I've seen town v town before. I read it as town v town. Can't blame me for being right about something. I don't care for your insinuation here tbh because I can't argue it.

]

... I don't really see how set up speculation is scummy. If you look at the time stamps there I posted those during real lulls in the game, just to put stuff out there to move the game along. Agar made the ultimate set up speculation post but he's super town to you. Conflicting ideology.

Your posts FOCUSED on setup speculation. Little analysis. IIOA. You kept putting forth information (unconfirmed setup info, be sure to note) rather than actually contributing something new.

AGar is town for other reasons than just one. As you are scum for more than one.

[/quote]

I was excited and wondering out loud about the set up. Read that part again and tell me how that, and the consequent reactions to my set up ideas being burned are scummy to you?

Already explained the PHENOMENON of my no lynch vote. Oh the humanity of it.

Mind reposting it one more time? Because No Lynch DAY ONE is never a good idea.

I EXPLAINED IT AGAIN SINCE I LAST POSTED THIS. JUST READ THE THREAD!

Well as a NOOOOOOOOOOOOOB I was planning on just trying to post sparingly and get a feel for the game/learn a bit, but Agar drew me out and forced me to get involved by straight up voting me. Scummy innit. Oh well, it's true.

You tell me of all the games you've played on this site.
Now. Because you're "im a n00b and too afraid to come out guns blazing and wait to 'learn a bit'".

They're all in my wiki mate. Just read it. All ONE of them. And I was killed on night 2, and as you can see I had a very similar experience in that game as I'm having in this one...

Doesn't necessarily mean that Terrans are mafia. That was more of a breadcrumb post anyway hoping to trip Agar up. I was sort of insinuating that he was Terran and knew more about their role in the game than we do. Being that he haphazardly referred to them as Terran Mafia, when at no stage has that been mentioned. Slightly wifom I guess.

Sooooo how does anyone NOT flipping Loyalist/Argelev and NOT GREEN town?

I never said they were possibly town. They could be a cult. They could be a rogue team. They could be a second town faction?
[/quote]

I think you should all just lynch me now so I can stop wasting my time defending myself.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
Vote:Soda

[Bogre]

Well since you seem to WANT me to have a scum read on you, I'll try to entertain you... Let's see what your wiki comes up with, because your play in this game is pretty legit aside from tunneling me...

Making a case because someone wants you to is both pandering to the desires of others and hypocritical (if you think he's pretty legit, than how can you have any sort of belief in the case you made?)

[Wraith]

Spoiler: Background

Imperial Politics

The Duranic Imperium maintains a highly unusual system of government in comparison to its peers, it being a hybrid of traditional elements from the First Empire and modern republicanism. Republicanism took hold in Avalon during the 18th century, with the Arkanian Civil War overthrowing the old monarchy and replacing it with a representative and electoral system of government. From then a wave of Republicanism spread across western Avalon, with Benneria adopting a constitutional monarchy - a constitutional republic nominally governed by a monarch - and Jukara overthrowing its theocratic oligarchy and installing an Arkanian-style legislature. Though the power of the Imperial Primarch had diminished over the course of centuries, with power generally being held by his klan and closest advisors, the power still remained in the position, even if it was not exercised. However, when Valerian Argelev IX - known as "the Bold" - ascended to the throne at the twilight of the 18th century, he exercised that power, capitalizing on a series of defeats suffered by the Imperium to stir Imperial nationalism and militarism. From 1805-1835, Avalon was plunged into a series of on-off wars known as the Valerianic Wars, in which a constantly-changing coalition of major powers attempted to bring the resurgent Imperium to heel. When Valerian was finally forced to abdicate in 1835, it was the departure of the Imperium's last true autocrat. With western influence, republicanist reforms began to gain momentum in the Imperium, and the weak-willed and lazy new Primarch did little to prevent them.

However, the Imperium differs greatly from the western republics in that these reforms came about without the authoring of a constitution. Harkening back to the old days of the First Empire, an Imperial Senate was created, calling representatives from the many regions of the Imperium (usually drawn from the noble klans) and giving the body the power to make laws and tax the citizenry with only the signature of the Primarch's approval. To balance the power, the Primarch lost the power to levy taxes and propose laws himself. The Senators are elected officials, and senatorial elections follow the model of the Bennerians, with citizens voting for a political party and seats being given to the parties in proportion to the percentage of votes received. The Imperium do not officially have a separate "Judicial Branch" in the sense the Arkanians do, but an impartial court system has been separate from the power of the nobles and Primarch for centuries, and essentially serves the same purpose even if it is not an official organization of the new government.

The position of Primarch remains relatively unchanged - while his power is significantly reduced as an autocrat, the position and traditions that come with it are unchanged. Since the dawn of the First Empire, the Primarch has, technically, been an elected official. After the death of every Primarch, a ceremony known as "The Conclave of Nobles" or simply "Conclave" is held. This ceremony is held behind locked doors, and only the members of the ruling house and a select few outsiders are allowed to attend. The

Beran

of the late Primarch's privy seal attends and is given a vote; other non-klan attendees include the patriarchs of the other

Hause Superior

, as well as the very rare "honored guest." Conclave is presided over by a randomly-chosen, anonymous "Arbiter," who presides over debate, holds votes, and serves as a tiebreaking vote if necessary; this position was created during the Kingdom Age in response to the original holder of the position, the

Beran

himself, often being won over to one faction through one method or another. The identity of the Arbiter is possibly the most closely-guarded secret in the Imperium. The only possible candidates for the Crown are males of House Argelev who declare themselves as candidates, and all attendees vote for their candidate of choice. When one candidate receives 67% of the vote, Conclave is closed and the winning candidate becomes the new Primarch.

Nevertheless, the Imperial political system has often been accused as corrupt, and these accusations are not completely unfounded. Without a supreme constitution, the laws of the land are extremely flexible, and often bent to favor whatever party needs it. Despite elections being fairly held, the majority of power is still held by the nobles as it has been for millenia, with the vast majority of "acceptable" political candidates coming from the noble klans. It is in this way that the Arkanians feel their "candidate-centric" electoral system is superior to the Juke-Bennerian "proportional" system, in that the voters always know who they are sending to Ecthelion - whereas the Duran are subject to the whims of the party leaders. Without that supreme constitution, there's no telling how the laws of the Imperium can be bent to favor anyone - including the Primarch.

There are many major political parties in the Imperium now, the most prominent being the pro-republicanism Republicans, moderate Federalists, pro-tradition Imperialists, and the right-wing Nationalists. The Socialist Party has been banned in the Imperium since the attempted revolutions of the 1860s. The Senate is currently made up of 8% Republicans, 38% Federalists, 42% Imperialists, 10% Nationalists, and 2% minor parties.

Votecount 4.4

SodaSpirit17

(6)

:

AGar

, MattP, Bogre,

MacDougall

, manho, Nero Cain, Otolia, PeregrineV

vezokpiraka

(2)

:

MacDougall

, EtherealCookie, MacDougall

MacDougall

(2)

:

Otolia

, AGar,

kdowns

, Andrius

AGar

(1)

:

Magua

, whispersilk

MattP

(1)

:

Otolia

,

Nero Cain

, SodaSpirit17,

manho

,

kdowns

Andrius

(1)

:

Magua
]

Otolia

(1)

:

vezokpiraka,

PeregrineV

Not Voting

(1)

:

kdowns

With 15 alive it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline for today is

November 1, 2011

Still looking for a replacement for

kdowns

.

whispersilk

has 9 hours to post before being force-replaced.

SodaSpirit17

stands at

L-2

[MacDougall]

Well since you seem to WANT me to have a scum read on you, I'll try to entertain you... Let's see what your wiki comes up with, because your play in this game is pretty legit aside from tunneling me...

Making a case because someone wants you to is both pandering to the desires of others and hypocritical (if you think he's pretty legit, than how can you have any sort of belief in the case you made?)

Well excuse me for trying to find fault with the guy who has been aggressively trying to get rid of me since opening post of day 2.

[MacDougall]

unvote
vote Soda

[SodaSpirit17]

vt. not too big of a loss if you lynch me, except you lose the awesomeness that is me.

[Wraith]

kdowns

returns to the game.

[vezokpiraka]

I'm not hammering.

[MacDougall]

unvote

[Magua]

What were you expecting? For me to turn into Jack or shaft.ed and do only one-liners?

For you to give a catchup post that shows what you're thinking after having caught up.

Conciseness is pro-town.

@MacDougall:

You were willing to lynch Soda, but unvoted after he claimed VT. Why is that? What claim could he have given where you wouldn't've unvoted him?

UNVOTE: Andrius
VOTE: SodaSpirit17 (L-1)

[MacDougall]

No reason really.

vote Soda

[Wraith]

Class and shit. Sue me.

[Wraith]

Spoiler: Lynch Scene

"So are we going to just stand around and let the traitors murder us one by one?"

[Otolia]

shouted. "Or are we going to take action? THAT man has done

nothing

throughout this week! He's just stood around. He's waiting for us to DIE!"

[Otolia]

yelled, pointing at

[MattP]

with conviction.

"I see no problem with that logic," said

[SodaSpirit17]

, raising his hand in agreement.

"Now hang on here!" said

[AGar]

. "You don't have any room to talk,

scheisser

! What have YOU done, huh? Even less!"

"I agree on a similar line: this case against

[MattP]

is

farfeck

coming from that scumbag," said

[vezokpiraka]

, gesturing at

[Otolia]

.

"You know,

[MacDougall]

is even worse," said

[Otolia]

. "

[MattP]

may have been lurking in the shadows over there, but

[MacDougall]

's been the devil in plain sight! Look at what he's said these last few days! The stewards do have transcripts, you know!"

"Hmmm...this one I can agree on, even coming from you," said

[AGar]

.

"Meh,"

[MacDougall]

grunted.

"That's

farfeck [AGar]

. You're

farfeck

," shouted

[Magua]

. "You need to die. Yesterday."

"You know what?" interrupted

[MacDougall]

. "You all do have some fair points. I have acted a little...misguided. But I don't deserve to die for it!"

"Damn it, arguing isn't getting us anywhere," said

[Otolia]

. "Damn it all, MacDougall's a scumbag, but at least he's trying. I SEE YOU THERE IN THE SHADOWS,

[SODASPIRIT17]

! YOU'RE NOT GETTING AWAY THAT EASILY!"

"Whoa, fellows, you people need to catch your breaths," said

[SodaSpirit17]

, emerging from behind a pillar. "I'm just trying to run the city! I'm not going to let the machinations of traitors destroy MY beautiful city!"

"That does it. I'm up for throwing this scumbag into the dungeons. Who's with me?" asked

[AGar]

.

"Meh," grunted

[MacDougall]

.

"We've got just about enough of a majority here,

Herr Beran

," said

[Magua]

.

"I've got a better solution."

[MacDougall]

drew a pistol from within his tunic and shot

[SodaSpirit17]

three times through the chest. "DIE TRAITOR!" he screamed.

The

Beran

immediately rose from the Burning Throne. "GUARDS!" he bellowed. "EVERYONE BACK TO THEIR ROOMS, IMMEDIATELY!"

"You...stupid...

scheissers

..." groaned

[SodaSpirit17]

, bleeding out on the floor of the great hall.

SodaSpirit17

,

Stadt-Orogoth (Loyalist)

, Exiled Day Four

Please remember that the flavor is a dramatization, and has no bearing on any roles, powers, or alignments (except for dead people).

Night Four

has begun.

Deadline for Night Four is

October 27, 2011

. Please forward all night actions via PM.