Prozacs Basic Theme 3 - GAME OVER

[dramonic]

SEE?
I FREAKIN TOLD YALL HE WAS SCUM SINCE DAY 1

now that I can happily stroke my ego some, let me reread

@Mod: The first post has myko/SC as alive

[Nocmen]

Skimming right now over Bunny and myko's ISOS, It seems to me Katsuki or MoS is their buddy. From the Day 1 interactions between them, the Katsuki wagon D5.

Though I'm also concerned with Bunny's cop on Dramonic, but I really think that makes Dram town.

Right now, I'd say, in chance of scum to least likely:
Katsuki
MoS
chk
Dram

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh my god, I am a fucking champion. That crosskill was fucking brilliant. I pretty much expected to die last night, but since the two mafia groups knew there were other scum out there (once Bunny flipped blue instead of red), they must have decided to try and kill each other instead of town.

Nocmen, how can you seriously think I am scum at this point? I have just hunted 3 scum in a row for this town and saved your asses (with the help of a crosskill). If there is anyone who is definitely not scum, it's me.

I'm going to go back and look at my analysis from yesterday to see who makes sense as Bunny/Myko's buddy.

[Porochaz]

As Katsuki has computer problems I will be searching for a replacement again. If he returns again he may keep his slot.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Katsuki - Late on the myko wagon, early on Bunny #1
chkflip - Did not vote myko, early on Bunny #1
Nocmen - early on the myko and bunny #1 wagons
Dram - early on the bunny #2 wagon

Bunny - Started the Katsuki #2 wagon
Myko - Middle of the Nocmen wagon

Bunny wagon: Started by MoS (that alone should clear me since I could have easily just jumped on the chkflip wagon and tipped the scales).

Voting order: Nocmen, myko, MoS , SC, Dram
Not voting Bunny: chkflip, Katsuki

Note on the above: You'll recall that I pushed the Bunny lynch before I left for work and then voted when I got back from work, which is why my vote was third on the wagon.

The hardest thing to figure out here is why that scumteam tried to build two town counterwagons rather than just pushing through a lynch on me once myko started it. I guess they thought they could ensure a counterwagon wouldn't start on one of them if they had two competing wagons already. And it almost worked, so I guess that's something.

If Katsuki is scum, he tried to help build a counterwagon along with Bunny while myko was lynching me.

If chkflip is scum, I have to discard some of my earlier reasoning that tied him to xvart. I also don't think that Bunny would have tried to fuel a wagon on chkflip as a counter to mislynching me. He was, however, on my wagon, so that's a point against him somewhat.

If Nocmen is scum, he jumped on early chances to bus his buddies earlier in the game. Also, I noticed that at the end of the day we lynched TheJak, he stated that myko was his second best scumread, but then the next day he came out going after Kat and chk and just dropped the myko suspicion altogether. myko jumped on the Nocmen wagon basically in the RVS stage (that was the quality of the reasoning), and Bunny doesn't even really mention the Nocmen wagon or give an opinion.

If Dram is scum, he avoided the bunny wagon the first time around and then voted her after she lived through the lynch. Additionally, Dram was "cleared" by bunny's first "result", which could have been an attempt to let her scumbuddy skim by.

As such, I'd rank my scumreads in this order:

Nocmen
Dramonic
chkflip
Katsuki

I'm really worried that Nocmen and I ended up with opposite lists, since that indicates to me that he's coming up with completely different conclusions based on reading the exact same info. If you take myself and Nocmen out of the equation, these are our lists:

Nocmen's list - Katsuki, chkflip, Dramonic
MoS' list - Dramonic, chkflip, Katsuki

I'd expect to have at least some similarities between reads on people who are probably town, since I'm guessing that we only have 1 scum left. That means that if Nocmen is town, at least 2 of the people on those lists are also town, and Nocmen and I do not see them the same way at all. This sort of thing isn't really evidence in and of itself, but it was significant enough to make me do a double-take when I realized it.

That said, no one should place any votes until everyone has weighed in at length. It isn't LYLO (I don't see how we could have more than 6 scum in a 20 person game and still be balanced, even with this many power roles), but we should still be careful with our votes.

[Katsuki]

As Katsuki has computer problems I will be searching for a replacement again. If he returns again he may keep his slot.

I'm scraping by with borrowed comp access. It's just that my activity will be unstable for a lil while. I'll be the first to let you know if I absolutely have to be replaced.

On the other hand, LOLOL FATE'S SCUMMASON BUDDY.

[Katsuki]

In a 20p game, we're probably looking at a 4/1 distribution at this point. Should only be one NK tonight so we got one mislynch to work with.

As for my reads, Dram is still a giant pool of null as always. The fact that I haven't gotten scumvibes assure me slightly about him, as I've had bad vibes about Myko and SC all game. Dram is nearly confirmed town in my eyes.

I'm still reading through other players, I'll let you guys know when I finish that. Gotta go to a meeting now.

Also I'm still not sure what to think of Nocmen. I can't see scum screaming non-stop for my death, but ya never know.

Would be fine with seeing either chkflip or Nocmen dying today, though leaning towards hanging chkflip for the post I voted him for last day.

[Nocmen]

Nocmen, how can you seriously think I am scum at this point? I have just hunted 3 scum in a row for this town and saved your asses (with the help of a crosskill). If there is anyone who is definitely not scum, it's me.

Saved who? Kinda seems like a slip to me.

I think you are scum because of how scooby interacted with myko and Bunny
Look at D1 between myko and scooby, see that passive-aggressive trades, without voting? When myko made so many votes?
It's also a process of elimination. Kats is my most scummy, dramonic is the least. chk is slightly neutral because I've still seen practically nothing come out of that slot.

Bunny wagon: Started by MoS (that alone should clear me since I could have easily just jumped on the chkflip wagon and tipped the scales).

Note on the above: You'll recall that I pushed the Bunny lynch before I left for work and then voted when I got back from work, which is why my vote was third on the wagon.

Really? And how the hell should that clear you? It was obvious, with almost no doubt, at that point that Bunny was caught in a lie with his claims.

If Katsuki is scum, he tried to help build a counterwagon along with Bunny while myko was lynching me.

So that's your main reason why you think Katsuki is town?

If chkflip is scum, I have to discard some of my earlier reasoning that tied him to xvart. I also don't think that Bunny would have tried to fuel a wagon on chkflip as a counter to mislynching me. He was, however, on my wagon, so that's a point against him somewhat.

If Nocmen is scum, he jumped on early chances to bus his buddies earlier in the game. Also, I noticed that at the end of the day we lynched TheJak, he stated that myko was his second best scumread, but then the next day he came out going after Kat and chk and just dropped the myko suspicion altogether. myko jumped on the Nocmen wagon basically in the RVS stage (that was the quality of the reasoning), and Bunny doesn't even really mention the Nocmen wagon or give an opinion.

If Dram is scum, he avoided the bunny wagon the first time around and then voted her after she lived through the lynch. Additionally, Dram was "cleared" by bunny's first "result", which could have been an attempt to let her scumbuddy skim by.

As such, I'd rank my scumreads in this order:

Nocmen
Dramonic
chkflip
Katsuki

I'm really worried that Nocmen and I ended up with opposite lists, since that indicates to me that he's coming up with completely different conclusions based on reading the exact same info. If you take myself and Nocmen out of the equation, these are our lists:

Nocmen's list - Katsuki, chkflip, Dramonic
MoS' list - Dramonic, chkflip, Katsuki

I'd expect to have at least some similarities between reads on people who are probably town, since I'm guessing that we only have 1 scum left. That means that if Nocmen is town, at least 2 of the people on those lists are also town, and Nocmen and I do not see them the same way at all. This sort of thing isn't really evidence in and of itself, but it was significant enough to make me do a double-take when I realized it.

That said, no one should place any votes until everyone has weighed in at length. It isn't LYLO (I don't see how we could have more than 6 scum in a 20 person game and still be balanced, even with this many power roles), but we should still be careful with our votes.

Why do you see dramonic as so scummy? Do you think Bunny/myko would be so agressive with the way they attacked dram? How about comparing that to how they treated others (including your own slot) in the early game? Notice the differences? Do you think Bunny would fake innocents on both his partners?

In a 20p game, we're probably looking at a 4/1 distribution at this point. Should only be one NK tonight so we got one mislynch to work with.

As for my reads, Dram is still a giant pool of null as always. The fact that I haven't gotten scumvibes assure me slightly about him, as I've had bad vibes about Myko and SC all game. Dram is nearly confirmed town in my eyes.

I'm still reading through other players, I'll let you guys know when I finish that. Gotta go to a meeting now.

Also I'm still not sure what to think of Nocmen. I can't see scum screaming non-stop for my death, but ya never know.

Would be fine with seeing either chkflip or Nocmen dying today, though leaning towards hanging chkflip for the post I voted him for last day.

Have you seen the flips that have happened? Are you just trying to feign innocence of the setup?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Nocmen, how can you seriously think I am scum at this point? I have just hunted 3 scum in a row for this town and saved your asses (with the help of a crosskill). If there is anyone who is definitely not scum, it's me.

Saved who? Kinda seems like a slip to me.

Uh, what? I don't even know what you're talking about. I just saved you guys from Fate's lolimmasavetwoscumfromdeath play by nailing 3 scum since I replaced into this game.

I think you are scum because of how scooby interacted with myko and Bunny
Look at D1 between myko and scooby, see that passive-aggressive trades, without voting? When myko made so many votes?
It's also a process of elimination. Kats is my most scummy, dramonic is the least. chk is slightly neutral because I've still seen practically nothing come out of that slot.

Gotta love how you're going to pin scooby on my but have absolutely no answer for the interactions between myself and myko/Bunny since I replaced.

Bunny wagon: Started by MoS (that alone should clear me since I could have easily just jumped on the chkflip wagon and tipped the scales).

Note on the above: You'll recall that I pushed the Bunny lynch before I left for work and then voted when I got back from work, which is why my vote was third on the wagon.

Really? And how the hell should that clear you? It was obvious, with almost no doubt, at that point that Bunny was caught in a lie with his claims.

If it was so obvious to everyone, why the hell were there 3 votes on me and 3 votes on chkflip until I came in and told you all to vote Bunny and pointed out why she was scum? You certainly weren't all over Bunny, you were voting chkflip, who you now claim is "slightly neutral". Care to explain how Katsuki jumped to the top of your list randomly?

If Katsuki is scum, he tried to help build a counterwagon along with Bunny while myko was lynching me.

So that's your main reason why you think Katsuki is town?

If chkflip is scum, I have to discard some of my earlier reasoning that tied him to xvart. I also don't think that Bunny would have tried to fuel a wagon on chkflip as a counter to mislynching me. He was, however, on my wagon, so that's a point against him somewhat.

If Nocmen is scum, he jumped on early chances to bus his buddies earlier in the game. Also, I noticed that at the end of the day we lynched TheJak, he stated that myko was his second best scumread, but then the next day he came out going after Kat and chk and just dropped the myko suspicion altogether. myko jumped on the Nocmen wagon basically in the RVS stage (that was the quality of the reasoning), and Bunny doesn't even really mention the Nocmen wagon or give an opinion.

If Dram is scum, he avoided the bunny wagon the first time around and then voted her after she lived through the lynch. Additionally, Dram was "cleared" by bunny's first "result", which could have been an attempt to let her scumbuddy skim by.

As such, I'd rank my scumreads in this order:

Nocmen
Dramonic
chkflip
Katsuki

I'm really worried that Nocmen and I ended up with opposite lists, since that indicates to me that he's coming up with completely different conclusions based on reading the exact same info. If you take myself and Nocmen out of the equation, these are our lists:

Nocmen's list - Katsuki, chkflip, Dramonic
MoS' list - Dramonic, chkflip, Katsuki

I'd expect to have at least some similarities between reads on people who are probably town, since I'm guessing that we only have 1 scum left. That means that if Nocmen is town, at least 2 of the people on those lists are also town, and Nocmen and I do not see them the same way at all. This sort of thing isn't really evidence in and of itself, but it was significant enough to make me do a double-take when I realized it.

That said, no one should place any votes until everyone has weighed in at length. It isn't LYLO (I don't see how we could have more than 6 scum in a 20 person game and still be balanced, even with this many power roles), but we should still be careful with our votes.

Why do you see dramonic as so scummy? Do you think Bunny/myko would be so agressive with the way they attacked dram? How about comparing that to how they treated others (including your own slot) in the early game? Notice the differences? Do you think Bunny would fake innocents on both his partners?

When did myko/Bunny attack dram? There was never even a significant wagon on dram, and Bunny "cleared" him with her night 1 action and thus would never have had a reason to attack dram for the rest of the game. Additionally, I do NOT think Bunny would fake innocents on both her partners. She only claimed two results: dram innocent, fate innocent (which she later recanted and said she was lying about). Where exactly did you conclude that Bunny faked innocents on both her partners?

In a 20p game, we're probably looking at a 4/1 distribution at this point. Should only be one NK tonight so we got one mislynch to work with.

As for my reads, Dram is still a giant pool of null as always. The fact that I haven't gotten scumvibes assure me slightly about him, as I've had bad vibes about Myko and SC all game. Dram is nearly confirmed town in my eyes.

I'm still reading through other players, I'll let you guys know when I finish that. Gotta go to a meeting now.

Also I'm still not sure what to think of Nocmen. I can't see scum screaming non-stop for my death, but ya never know.

Would be fine with seeing either chkflip or Nocmen dying today, though leaning towards hanging chkflip for the post I voted him for last day.

Have you seen the flips that have happened? Are you just trying to feign innocence of the setup?

What point are you trying to make here?

[Katsuki]

In a 20p game, we're probably looking at a 4/1 distribution at this point. Should only be one NK tonight so we got one mislynch to work with.

As for my reads, Dram is still a giant pool of null as always. The fact that I haven't gotten scumvibes assure me slightly about him, as I've had bad vibes about Myko and SC all game. Dram is nearly confirmed town in my eyes.

I'm still reading through other players, I'll let you guys know when I finish that. Gotta go to a meeting now.

Also I'm still not sure what to think of Nocmen. I can't see scum screaming non-stop for my death, but ya never know.

Would be fine with seeing either chkflip or Nocmen dying today, though leaning towards hanging chkflip for the post I voted him for last day.

Have you seen the flips that have happened? Are you just trying to feign innocence of the setup?

What makes you think that?

[Nocmen]

Uh, what? I don't even know what you're talking about. I just saved you guys from Fate's lolimmasavetwoscumfromdeath play by nailing 3 scum since I replaced into this game.


Gotta love how you're going to pin scooby on my but have absolutely no answer for the interactions between myself and myko/Bunny since I replaced.

So all of a sudden, because scooby replaced out, I have to ignore everything that he did in this game? Once you pointed out the connection between myko and Bunny was likely, with the teams, notice how myko attacked you? Distancing from you.

Who are all of these scum that you've pinned. I see that you think you all of a sudden deserve all this credit for the Bunny wagon, when

If it was so obvious to everyone, why the hell were there 3 votes on me and 3 votes on chkflip until I came in and told you all to vote Bunny and pointed out why she was scum? You certainly weren't all over Bunny, you were voting chkflip, who you now claim is "slightly neutral". Care to explain how Katsuki jumped to the top of your list randomly?

Because the mass claim ended. When you look at the fact that the roles Bunny needed to make his claim true didn't exist, or were extremely unlikely, How does that make YOU all of a sudden a god for nailing that scum? Your defense right now is arrogance saying you're all of a sudden so pro-town.

As for Katsuki, the fact that the most I've seen from that slot is the defense of the Fate/Myko mason claim, seems like Katsuki knew myko was scum. What else has Katsuki doen that makes him town?

When did myko/Bunny attack dram? There was never even a significant wagon on dram, and Bunny "cleared" him with her night 1 action and thus would never have had a reason to attack dram for the rest of the game. Additionally, I do NOT think Bunny would fake innocents on both her partners. She only claimed two results: dram innocent, fate innocent (which she later recanted and said she was lying about). Where exactly did you conclude that Bunny faked innocents on both her partners?

The connections with the targets Bunny had. I don't see that direct of a connection to dram. You don't pleade for dram's innocence so much in the game, and then make another scum buddy another target as well, especially when it seems the scum are in groups of 3).

What point are you trying to make here?

I'm looking at the fact that Katsuki is blatanty not following the game, and ensuring that he won't use a defense to the extend of "I can't be scum because I wouldnt say there is a 4/1 setup".

[Mastermind of Sin]

chkflip needs to check in and post something useful. dram also needs to come back and give us his reads. I'm pretty much ready to vote obvscum Nocmen, but I want to hold off until we have more content from our other useless players.

Uh, what? I don't even know what you're talking about. I just saved you guys from Fate's lolimmasavetwoscumfromdeath play by nailing 3 scum since I replaced into this game.


Gotta love how you're going to pin scooby on my but have absolutely no answer for the interactions between myself and myko/Bunny since I replaced.

So all of a sudden, because scooby replaced out, I have to ignore everything that he did in this game?

Of course not, and you know that's not what I'm suggesting.

Once you pointed out the connection between myko and Bunny was likely, with the teams, notice how myko attacked you? Distancing from you.

Trying to get me lynched before I took down their entire scumgroup, you mean?

Who are all of these scum that you've pinned. I see that you think you all of a sudden deserve all this credit for the Bunny wagon, when

Well, let's see here. I nailed StrangerCoug, Myko, and Bunny. That's 3 scum from two DIFFERENT scumteams. Are you going to claim that I'm a part of both mafias now?

If it was so obvious to everyone, why the hell were there 3 votes on me and 3 votes on chkflip until I came in and told you all to vote Bunny and pointed out why she was scum? You certainly weren't all over Bunny, you were voting chkflip, who you now claim is "slightly neutral". Care to explain how Katsuki jumped to the top of your list randomly?

Because the mass claim ended. When you look at the fact that the roles Bunny needed to make his claim true didn't exist, or were extremely unlikely, How does that make YOU all of a sudden a god for nailing that scum? Your defense right now is arrogance saying you're all of a sudden so pro-town.[/quote]

And who suggested the mass claim? LoL...

As for Katsuki, the fact that the most I've seen from that slot is the defense of the Fate/Myko mason claim, seems like Katsuki knew myko was scum. What else has Katsuki doen that makes him town?

Wait, defending the Fate/Myko mason claim doesn't at all indicate that Katsuki had inside knowledge that myko was scum. That doesn't even follow logically.

When did myko/Bunny attack dram? There was never even a significant wagon on dram, and Bunny "cleared" him with her night 1 action and thus would never have had a reason to attack dram for the rest of the game. Additionally, I do NOT think Bunny would fake innocents on both her partners. She only claimed two results: dram innocent, fate innocent (which she later recanted and said she was lying about). Where exactly did you conclude that Bunny faked innocents on both her partners?

The connections with the targets Bunny had. I don't see that direct of a connection to dram. You don't pleade for dram's innocence so much in the game, and then make another scum buddy another target as well, especially when it seems the scum are in groups of 3).

Now you're just spewing horseshit. "The connections with the targets Bunny had"??? Bunny claimed to target dram and Fate, and then said she lied about targeting Fate. The

ONLY

person with a direct connection to Bunny's role claim is dram, and you claim that you "don't see that direct of a connection to dram"??? LMFAO.

dram being the ONLY person Bunny attempted to clear doesn't at all make him MORE town. She could easily have been sucking up to him, but Bunny's fake result is NOT the main reason I think dram is scum. Anyone with half a brain can see that dram has not done anything of consequence this entire game. Until he hammered Bunny, he has not been a part of any major wagon through

SIX

game days. That's why if you're not scum, dram is my next bet. This is all irrelevant, though, because I don't actually think dram is scum right now, since I'm only looking for one and that person is you.

What point are you trying to make here?

I'm looking at the fact that Katsuki is blatanty not following the game, and ensuring that he won't use a defense to the extend of "I can't be scum because I wouldnt say there is a 4/1 setup".

Why the hell would Katsuki use that defense? That's retarded, Nocmen. I already told everyone the setup is likely 4/1, that's pretty much common knowledge to anyone paying attention. It's the only logical conclusion that can be drawn.

[Nocmen]

1. So suggesting a mass claim, and having a case on 3 people, who flipped scum, makes you town? And how many people had been pushing cases on those 3 during this game? This self-entitled bullshit that you think makes yours so much more superior is shit logic.
2. Tell me why Dram is more scummy than say, the other 2 players, who have practically done nothing as well this entire game? Not joining wagons is more scummy than joining wagons, and not contributing at all?
3. How the hell can a 4/1 setup be a logical conclusion when theres 3/2 flipped right now?

[Mastermind of Sin]

1. So suggesting a mass claim, and having a case on 3 people, who flipped scum, makes you town? And how many people had been pushing cases on those 3 during this game? This self-entitled bullshit that you think makes yours so much more superior is shit logic.

LoL, so I'm scum for being the only useful player left alive? LMAO...

2. Tell me why Dram is more scummy than say, the other 2 players, who have practically done nothing as well this entire game? Not joining wagons is more scummy than joining wagons, and not contributing at all?

Not joining ANY wagons indicates a possible desire to not want to draw attention to oneself during vote analysis. However, I don't actually think Dram is scum right now, so this argument is really moot.

3. How the hell can a 4/1 setup be a logical conclusion when theres 3/2 flipped right now?

...because there are

4

town and

1

scum remaining...bringing the total scum to 3/3...what part of that doesn't make sense to you?

[Porochaz]

I know there is 5 of you left but this isn't good enough.

[Katsuki]

Nocmen is making my eyes bleed. However, I'm not sure if rope's the right solution for him.

If chkflip doesn't provide anything useful in the next 24hrs, he's getting my vote.

[Katsuki]

MoS, what do you think of chkflip? Please answer even if you've said it somewhere else before (don't have time to dig through thread).

[Porochaz]

Chkflp has 24 hours to post.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I had chkflip as a very highly possible scum yesterday, but that was based on game analysis that tied him to xvart. I didn't actually expect there to be two mafias, but I didn't really see any good reason to tie him to myko and bunny. He's my third option after Nocmen and dramonic.

[Nocmen]

Well, 4/1 makes sense now. I was still in the mindset that you were thinking 4 scum, 1SK as the anti-town roles, from previous references of 4/1 in the game.

[dramonic]

@MoS: I also spent 95% of the game trying to lynch Myko. You shouldn't JUST consider bunny's flip to get a read on my alignment =/

It's most likely 4-1. If it's not it's 2-2-1 and we lost, so whatever.

I would lynch a chkflip. Who's with me?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well, 4/1 makes sense now. I was still in the mindset that you were thinking 4 scum, 1SK as the anti-town roles, from previous references of 4/1 in the game.

Actually, previously we were speculating 5/1, but whatever.

@MoS: I also spent 95% of the game trying to lynch Myko. You shouldn't JUST consider bunny's flip to get a read on my alignment =/

That was a point in your favor over lynching Nocmen, but keep in mind that there was never really a significant myko wagon past the early game. I could easily explain your attacks on myko as non-committal distancing (ie telling people you think X is scum without actually working very hard on building a wagon against them), if I thought you were scum. But I'll cross that bridge when/if we come to it, because right now I believe that you're telling the truth, since we can only have one scum.

It's most likely 4-1. If it's not it's 2-2-1 and we lost, so whatever.

I would lynch a chkflip. Who's with me?

No, chkflip is not the play. Why would Bunny help push a counterwagon on her own teammate when I was so close to being lynched? At one point the VC had 3 votes on me and 3 votes on chkflip, with myko and Bunny each pushing a wagon. That makes me think they were trying to get competing mislynches going so that they come out ahead no matter which one goes through. Their actions make no sense if chkflip is scum, so I'm not buying it.

Nocmen is the lynch for today. Chkflip is the lazy lynch, and the rest of us townies need to not fall into that trap. Useless players are not necessarily scum, and there is no good reason to connect chkflip to Bunny/myko.

[Nocmen]

Agreed, chk, while the slot is meh at best, is not the lynch. Kats/MoS is the lynch for today. Still not sure which, MoS definitely seemed scummy at the start of the day, but now I'm just beginning to think we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Porochaz]

chkflp did not respond to the start of the day prod and then the game prod and therefore will be replaced. If he posts before I get the replacement I have in the background lined up then he may continue.

[dramonic]

bah

unvote
vote: Nocmen